I've asked you this - very relevant - question several times before, but so far to no avail. Because you've done everything in your power to ignore it, hoping it will go away. To bypass that problem, I've created this separate thread to draw everyones attention (including the attention of others).
Why have you left your countries to come live in the West? In other words, why are you betraying the system you all claim to support so much?
Now I am very interested in an answer. Because as far as I can see you are not merely cowards, but hypocrites as well.
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#Neda
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I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
I will bump this thread a few times to make sure you guys see it. I would strongly advice you to answer if want any credibility.
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#Neda
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I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
------------------------------
This message has been edited by Koz4k on Jun 28, 2009 10:04 AM
Anglo, I will remove your responses because a) they are not understancable and b) they are not relevant.
Also this thread is not directed at you, therefore your response is not asked for, nor required.
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
------------------------------
This message has been edited by Koz4k on Jun 28, 2009 10:28 AM This message has been edited by Koz4k on Jun 28, 2009 10:14 AM
Anglo, move it to the complaints forum. I will repeat one more time why I have removed your replies:
1. Your replies are not understandable because you are talking jibberish "faggatory, dilde, Western nudity" etc.
2. The part that is understandable isn't relevant: such as the "ummah brotherhood" mumbo jumbo.
Also, don't think for a second that you are fooling me. You are a professional troll who knows very well what he is doing. Of course the moment you stop spamming this thread, you will be free to post.
This message has been edited by Koz4k on Jun 28, 2009 1:39 PM This message has been edited by Koz4k on Jun 28, 2009 1:37 PM
Anglo, I would also like to inform you that you have been warned for calling "every nonmuslim bstrads born of whroes" in the suggestions and complaints forum. This is your second warning and a third warning will result in a temporary ban.
As for your complaint, I will leave it up the other moderators and admins to draw a conclusion.
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
------------------------------
#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
Come on wankers, I'm spitting in your faces! Defend yourselfs!
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
"We are not warmongers like the American goverment. They are warmongers. They are always after a war! We are not like this. However, When this nations honor and this homelands intrests are at stake, we will fight to the bitter end"
"Isn't it ridiculous that those who have deployed 160,000 troops in Iraq accuse us of intervening there?"
Maybe, but how is he accessing this website? And why?
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
You know what is truly pathetic, even from behind their computers they are cowards.
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
In case you didnt know, that moron named saifudeen is a phuckistani.
Indians and phuckistanis are basically of the same race, language and even culture (atleast for punjabis). but this saifudeen fellow uses racist stereotypes to describe Indians, he has the guts to call Indians as "darkies" and "ni***r" when he himself has the same physical built and skin colour.
And you expect that punk to post a valid response?
No, but I'll make sure that everyone knows what frauds they are.
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
Thank you for the support. Under normal conditions I do my best to remain neutral, but the recent developments combined with the hypocritical behaviour of these members has pushed me over the line.
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
The guy is so full of shyt that he really needs the 2nd hole. In his last post he wrote
>>I'v seen whole streets in Tehran with not one window left unbroken.
As soon as I answered with
LOL, oh dear dear dear, you said too much there BOY. The usuall meaning of the sentence above is you saw "using your own eyes" . Only 3 possibilities exist
1: You are in Tehran, in that case BOY, how do you get around posting here when this site is banned in Iran? You don't happen to be a government snoop , are you boy?
2: You meant to say you saw the pictures of such a thing from a news organization. Given you support murder of people, you wouldn't be above lying, so why dont you prove it and post a link to such picture
3:You saw such a street with your own eyes just before your mofo Basij brothers started killing people and you left Iran immediately . Here BOY I gave you a way out.
He went quiet. Apparently supporting murder is much less shameful than admitting he lives outside Iran. Go figure the value system!!!
This message has been edited by fariborz_57 on Jun 30, 2009 2:53 PM
I saw that, it was a masterpiece. He hasn't replied yet.
These idiots think everyone else is an idiot as well.
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
Anash is having hendu boyfriend name Ratnation. Rat nations why all ways you wanting to be associate with us. We are not being ugly like you so do not say we are being same culture we do not worship and marry with snake and all other animal.
Here you can see Anash and boyfriend Ratnation. You can see Anash cheating with Kaveh.
Saifudeen give it a rest. It's obvious you're faking it. Even your English is getting worse.
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
Interesting that Titanium has the time to search the internet for graphics and to attack, but still refuses to answer Koz's simple question.
Odd, isn't it?
Provost
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.
Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States 1924-1929
At least he shows up every now and then unlike our other beloved fanatics who seem to have disappeared.
Eric, I do appreciate your opinion, in fact very much so!
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
It's not so hard to answer.. just say you're in the west as warriors to expand the borders of "muslim brotherhoods" by multiplying like rats. The same thing Jews are doing in the West Bank settlements. Dog eat dog world. Obviously you lack the mental capacity or lack the backbone to come up with a reason or admit the truth.
This message has been edited by Kasravi on Jul 1, 2009 4:27 AM
I dont care about what this saifudeen idiot talked about Islam but the way he talks how he is "white" and hhow Indians are dark skinned is downright ridiculous. The low self respect that the moron has (if he has any) and his inferiority complex is for everybody to see.
That idiot thinks that you can be a good and successful person only if you have fair skin, blonde hair and blue/green eyes. Thing is saifudeen has none of this so he is a trashcan in his own mind.
P.S. The only thing to come out of this is that people here know that i sport long hair, as evident of the cartoon with long hair LOL!!!!
Flower of Rahbar (for some reason his name reminds me of a vagina) has managed to write down 12 pages of BS, but he still hasn't answered this question. Flanker seems to have disappeared.
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
^^ no he does go to the other thread and tries his crap talk. Just doesn't want to answer SOME questions. If he can dance around a question and spew bullshyt he is a hapy camper. I guess he realises that he is wrong and cannot defend his arguments logically, just has trouble admitting it. Exactly like Saifu he is too arrogant to admit he is a shyt
Seriously, how do these guys live with themselfs? How can a human being degrade to such a level?
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
They are delusional migrants who enjoy the fruits of freedom. By having a job, food, water, electricity and government support. But they still bitch and moan about how their dictatorship back at home is superior but at the same time don't dream of going back.
They have much the same tactic as the Iranian government: they know they're wrong, so they keep quiet in the hopes of things going away, while at the same time they use delusional rants elsewhere hoping to distract everyones attention. Pathethic.
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
I require a certain amount of respect or need to believe in the sincerity of the inquirer, to be willing to answer personal questions. You really don't come across as an intelligent or well-mannered person, neither do most members of this forum for that manner. However, particularly you and several other members seem to be very vulgar, something which I cannot appreciate at all. Other than that you seem to be very abusive of your moderation rights, which makes you come across as an unfair and illogical person. These are all characteristics I don't appreciate in people and I generally choose to ignore such people.
LOL BOY, respect is given to people deserving of it . People who support attacks by armed thugs on unarmed people, start losing respects of other people. Especially when those coward thugs are called lions by the said people , remembers that part, oddly enough you went completely quiet. You dont like it? Eat my shyt .
As far as you REQUIRING, that is because you cannot tolerate opposite views to your own, so again, eat my shyt
>>You really don't come across as an intelligent or well-mannered person
LOL, in this and the other thread when I proved to you that you are supporting a dictator, we first talked of generalities then very specific instances of abuse of power. Given you could not defend anything you said, I think we are ALL orders of magnitude more intelligent than you are BOY. As far as manners go, I am the worst behaved here, but you see BOY, we lose our outer shell of trying to behave in a controlled fashion when laws are broken, dictatorship is happening and people are murdered. Manners are somewhat low on the list of priorities then
>>However, particularly you and several other members seem to be very vulgar, something which I cannot appreciate at all
Yes that is ME, I am rather rude infact just about the rudest, but I am impolite to everyone and have extremely low tolerance for stupidity and immorality, tought shyt. Dont support what is immoral and I will behave towards you as I do with other HUMANS, till then, eat my shyt.
>>Other than that you seem to be very abusive of your moderation rights
LOL now this is truly funny BOY. Let us say that Koz, sureans, I and many other had gone and joined a forum much more suitable and in line with your extreme views. How long do you suppose we would last there? One other indication to YOU that WE ALL are better than a shyt like you is the fact that your participation in this forum has continued, if the shoe were on the other foot, YOU and your ilk would deny all of us the right to express our views BOY.
Now answer simple questions in this and the other thread or shut up and accept what you are
This message has been edited by fariborz_57 on Jul 5, 2009 3:13 PM This message has been edited by fariborz_57 on Jul 5, 2009 3:10 PM
Flower, first let me say that I was expecting a a lot more finesse from you in your attempt at dodging the question. At any rate, let me make a few things clear: this thread can be read by anyone who has visiting this section. In other words, you and your friends are cowards and hypocrites not merely in my eyes, but in the eyes of everyone who takes the time to read this thread. Considering how much time you waste in writing down your rants, I'm assuming there are at least a few people here worth your time. Seeing how you (and your buddies) have no credibility whatsoever, it might be wise to at least attempt to defend yourselfs.
Now don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching you squirm like the little worm that you are, but that's just not enough.
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
------------------------------
This message has been edited by Koz4k on Jul 5, 2009 3:31 PM This message has been edited by Koz4k on Jul 5, 2009 3:27 PM
Fariborz, please don't hurt his feelings, he's a delicate little flower who supports the most benevolent regime on earth.
By the way, isn't it a little odd that he "requires" respect in order to defend himself?
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
This is a lot like that god and big rock question of yours. No matter what he says, you're still going to cuss and point fingers at him. This leads me to believe you don't actually want to sit down and have an honest discussion with follower but only want to force your views on him - no matter what he says you will still castrate him, this is obvious from your hostile language. Already we see that just because he hasn't complied, you've resorted to name calling telling him he's a piece of shyt and a worm. Is that how you talk to people in an honest discussion?
Personally, my family and I left because of the war that saddam imposed on Iran. He had america and frances and englands blessing for that war. It put grim prospect on the country. I always enjoy going there, it's so much better than where I live right now. I hope I can well support myself one day so I can move back there.
----------------------------------------
And all of this controversy circles me
And it seems like the media immediately points a finger at me
So I point one back at 'em
But not the index or the pinky or the ring or the thumb
It's the one you put up when you don't give a ****
When you won't just put up with the bull**** they pull
Cause they full of **** too
This is a lot like that god and big rock question of yours. No matter what he says, you're still going to cuss and point fingers at him. This leads me to believe you don't actually want to sit down and have an honest discussion with follower but only want to force your views on him - no matter what he says you will still castrate him, this is obvious from your hostile language. Already we see that just because he hasn't complied, you've resorted to name calling telling him he's a piece of shyt and a worm. Is that how you talk to people in an honest discussion?
and you don't care about floower one bit and wouldn't have spoken up had your views been opposite of his..you don't care about his hurt feelings, you only care that someone who is pro regime is being confronted..
___________________________________________
"I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born." -
-- Ronald Reagan
>>This leads me to believe you don't actually want to sit down and have an honest discussion with follower but only want to force your views on him
Have I, Koz and others asked him logical questions in this and the other thread (Yes/No)?
Has he been able to show logically that our assertions are false (Yes/No)?
Has he danced around issues and kept answering with long sentences without answering our questions regarding HIS assertions, in both general situations and then wheb specific examples have been sited (Yes/no)?
Example: 600 police injured, 500 civilians, example: making laws on the spot against constitution, example the use of blasphemy laws to suppress political opposition, example: Limits of power of Rahbar versus Shah. These are all valid LOGICAL questions, I invite you to read his answers and then show all of us we are wrong . Believe me unlike you and him we are actually capable of accepting we are wrong. On the other hand, free logical thought demands us to ask and not just accept, that is essence of any free discussion. My question to you and him stay same in addition to the above tell me how is it possible that results of partial counting after 2 hours stayed exactly the same till the end of count? How is it possible that the numbers did not change even by 1 percentage point?
This message has been edited by fariborz_57 on Jul 5, 2009 4:06 PM
@PapaRage, the reason you feel obliged to defend yourself in this thread is probably because you feel that you are in the same boat as FlowerOfRahbar, Saifudeen and Flanker. And I appreciate your answer, but they are big boys and they can defend themselfs. A little hostile language shouldn't scare them off. At any rate, this is a simple and honest question, that has until now remained unanswered, making any potential discussion impossible. And although you are most likely correct, about me castrating them, it is not because I want to "force my views on them", but it is because their answers will be filled with hypocrisy. They know this, and that is why they are forced to remain silent. After all, why do you choose to live in the West, if the your beloved regime is waiting for you? Also, I've never called him a piece of sh*t, but I have called him a worm, and I stand by it.
Where do you live now and why is it much worse than Iran? Also, what is preventing you from moving back? Financial problems? If so, how can Iran be any better?
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
LOL, what can I say, we are a rough nasty bunch and he is a sensitivce delicate type
==
Let's be honest here, we are the bad guys. How dare we ask him simple (pretty logical) questions? How dare we ask him to support his claims with sources? How dare we to allow him to express his opinions, although he wouldn't allow others to do the same (which makes Mike also evil by the way)? And it's not like those nice Basiji's have ever hurt anyone, unlike those bastard woman and childeren who have peacefully expressed their opinion!
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
LOL, well I did and I want that credit smilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gif
==
I think you're giving him a little too much credit.
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
@PapaRage, the reason you feel obliged to defend yourself in this thread is probably because you feel that you are in the same boat as FlowerOfRahbar, Saifudeen and Flanker. And I appreciate your answer, but they are big boys and they can defend themselfs. A little hostile language shouldn't scare them off. At any rate, this is a simple and honest question, that has until now remained unanswered, making any potential discussion impossible. And although you are most likely correct, about me castrating them, it is not because I want to "force my views on them", but it is because their answers will be filled with hypocrisy. They know this, and that is why they are forced to remain silent. After all, why do you choose to live in the West, if the your beloved regime is waiting for you? Also, I've never called him a piece of sh*t, but I have called him a worm, and I stand by it.
Where do you live now and why is it much worse than Iran? Also, what is preventing you from moving back? Financial problems? If so, how can Iran be any better?
I share alot of followers views, so I felt this question applied to me aswell. You're a moderator you shouldn't carry on the way you do koz, give people a bit more dignity and they will answer your questions. I feel corrupt living in the west, the atmosphere in iran is much cleaner and less sinful. Everything is sexualised here, girls are expected to lose their virginity by 16. You're not cool unless you get drunk on the weekends or smoke weed. People have turned their back on god, they laugh at the religious and I have gradually changed to live what is considered a normal life. I've done all that crap. Whenever i'm in iran I improve as a muslim, I feel like a better person because the atmosphere supports that. It has culture and religion. When I come back from the country i feel disgusted with how women are objectified, but when I am here for a while I start to objetify them myself. Apparently what we here in the west have is considered freedom, and that's what they want in Iran - i don't consider that as freedom.
What keeps me back from returning is my studies. My farsi is not very fluent and my reading abilities are still not strong enough. Hopefully that will all change.
----------------------------------------
And all of this controversy circles me
And it seems like the media immediately points a finger at me
So I point one back at 'em
But not the index or the pinky or the ring or the thumb
It's the one you put up when you don't give a ****
When you won't just put up with the bull**** they pull
Cause they full of **** too
This message has been edited by PappaRage on Jul 5, 2009 4:35 PM
@ PapaRage, dignity is not the issue. I have asked them this question in a nice manner many times before, but to no avail. FlowerOfRahbar, and his equal minded friends are merely in need of an excuse to ignore the question. Remember, the question still stands, irrespective of me calling them cowards and hypocrites. What kind of person would first need respect before he would defend his honor?
But let's take a closer look at your reasons. Iran has among the highest drug addiction rates in the world, it has massive levels of corruption, it has problems with prostitution, a lower living standard than the West, less personal, economic, social and political freedoms, woman are widely discriminated against, and Iran is subject to the largest brain drain. So what exactly would make you feel "a better person" in Iran? And why would you have to move to another country in order to become a better Muslim? That doesn't make any sense, especially since there are over 50 other Islamic states out there. Don't get me wrong, you are more than free to choose, but bottom line remains that you are still living in the West and you are using opportunities that the West has to offer.
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
------------------------------
This message has been edited by Koz4k on Jul 5, 2009 4:51 PM
Ignore mike, he's a bit irked because I reminded him of a few details he had forgotten about modern day rome.
But let's take a closer look at your reasons. Iran has among the highest drug addiction rates in the world, it has massive levels of corruption, it has problems with prostitution, a lower living standard than the West, less personal, economic, social and political freedoms, woman are widely discriminated against, and Iran is subject to the largest brain drain. So what exactly would make you feel "a better person" in Iran? And why would you have to move to another country in order to become a better Muslim? That doesn't make any sense, especially since there are over 50 other Islamic states out there. Don't get me wrong, you are more than free to choose, but bottom line remains that you are still living in the West and you are using opportunities that the West has to offer.
That's all because of a lack of religion. In this day and age the corrupt way of the west has many ways to make its way into a country. It already has. You have to hold onto your beliefs firmly and wait for the enemy to implode under their own devise, they will you can hold me to my word on that one. Never has there been more anti depressant pill prescribers at any point in americas history, which is in rapid rise. If their freedom is so great why are they all miserable? They are slaves to their own devise my friend. Drugs, sex and alcohol only create problems, god and spirituality is the only way to a better life. But I'm talking to deaf ears here, you're an atheist..
----------------------------------------
And all of this controversy circles me
And it seems like the media immediately points a finger at me
So I point one back at 'em
But not the index or the pinky or the ring or the thumb
It's the one you put up when you don't give a ****
When you won't just put up with the bull**** they pull
Cause they full of **** too
This message has been edited by PappaRage on Jul 5, 2009 5:20 PM This message has been edited by PappaRage on Jul 5, 2009 5:18 PM This message has been edited by PappaRage on Jul 5, 2009 5:12 PM
I asked you very specific questions and asked you SPECIFICALLY to answer with yes/no . Did I not?
As usuall with you and him you write sentence after sentence without addressing questions . Tell me who is illogical and whose positionn is defenceless, yours or ours . Infact this is a very good example of weakness of logic in your positions, and as Koz said the judgement made by others who care to read the threads is not influenced by us but by you two just dancing around and not answering
I don't understand your reasoning. The top industrialized nations are secular and among the least religious in the wrold. They lead the world in terms of economy, politics, social development, science, military and so forth. Also, how is it possible that a theocracy such as Iran, which is governed by "men of god", has a much higher corruption rating than any Western nation? Also, the happiest nations in the world are Western http://www.happiness.org/Resources/Happiness_Studies/Happiest_Countries.aspx). In fact, these are some of the reasons why so many peoples leave their countries to come live in the West: they want a better life.
So I must ask you again, how is this possible? How can these decadent and godless nations be so successful?
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
------------------------------
This message has been edited by Koz4k on Jul 5, 2009 5:35 PM
PapaRage, I would also like to remind you that Flower and his friends have remained silent.
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
I don't understand your reasoning. The top industrialized nations are secular and among the least religious in the wrold. They lead the world in terms of economy, politics and military. Also, how is it possible that a theocracy such as Iran, governed by "men of god" has a much higher corruption rating than any Western country? Also, the happiest nations in the world are Westerhttp://www.happiness.org/Resources/Happiness_Studies/Happiest_Countries.aspx). These are some of the reasons why so many peoples leave their countries to live in the West: to find a better life.
So I must ask you again, how is this possible? How can these decadent and godless nations be so successful?
Incase you aren't up to date with the state of the world I should remind you that all those top industrialized secular nations are going to sh*ts right now. All triggered by the american credit crunch. Any country invested with the us feels this through the global recession, fortunately for Iran it is not.
Warren Buffett Says American Economy is a Shambles
By Dan Denning June 25th, 2009 Related Articles Filed Under
About the AuthorDan Denning is the author of 2005's best-selling The Bull Hunter (John Wiley & Sons). Dan draws on his network of global contacts from his base in Melbourne. Hes the managing editor of resource newsletter Diggers and Drillers and the editor of The Daily Reckoning Australia.
See All Articles by This Author
Ben Bernanke Respectfully Disagreed With Angela MerkelWarren Buffett Travels to Europe to Seek Out Better InvestmentsCongress Urged to Approve Bailout By George Bush and Warren BuffettAlan Greenspan Bears Blame for Intensity of Financial CrisisInvestors Feel They Can Put Their Money into Treasuries and Not Worry
Filed Under: Market Tags: American economy asx aussie dollar interest rates stocks Warren Buffett
Yesterday didn't turn out so bad after all on the ASX. Stocks finished slightly up, as did the Aussie dollar and oil. Today might be a different story, though.
For starters, billionaire investor/guru/jovial-grandfatherly-figure Warren Buffett has said the American economy is a "shambles." Buffett told CNBC that the worst of the financial crisis peaked late last year (we're not so sure). But the economic crisis? That's still in full flight.
"I get figures on 70-odd businesses, a lot of them daily," said Buffett. "Everything that I see about the economy is that we've had no bounce. The financial system was really where the crisis was last September and October, and that's been surmounted and that's enormously important. But in terms of the economy coming back, it takes a while."
"A while," is not a precise unit of time. But Buffett is probably right. "There were a lot of excesses to be wrung out and that process is still underway and it looks to me like it will be underway for quite a while. In the (Berkshire Hathaway) annual report I said the economy would be in a shambles this year and probably well beyond. I'm afraid that's true."
Buffett remains optimistic that eventually we'll grow our way out of this recession. He said the same thing, by the way, after the U.S. debut of "I.O.U.S.A." But that was before the U.S. stacked on several trillion more in debt to "deal" with the financial crisis.
Speaking of "I.O.U.S.A," we're hoping to bring it to Melbourne in late July for its first official Australian screening. A plan is being made. You will be alerted to this plan once it's down. We're organising what we hope will be Australia's first real frank discussion about household debt, government borrowing, and the banking sector. No holds will be barred. Stay tuned.
One more comment from Buffett. "I don't worry about deflation at all," he said. We haven't seen the entire interview. But we are presuming that means he's more worried about inflation-unless he's worried about neither, which we suppose is possible. But Buffett did say he thought the stock market was attractive over the next ten years, compared to other alternatives.
If, by other alternatives, he means cash, then maybe he IS worried about inflation and thinks that stocks are a better asset class to own than cash during inflation. He certainly can't mean that government bonds are a better bet than stocks for inflation, can he?
Enough of trying to read Warren's mind. Let's take a quick look at what the Federal Open Market Committee said today regarding U.S. interest rates. Remember yesterday we said to watch for language which tipped the Fed's intentions regarding the bond market. It all begins with the bond vigilantes these days. So what did the Fed say?
It made clear low rates-at least the Fed's target rate-are here to stay. "The Committee will maintain the target range for the federal funds rate at 0 to 1/4 percent and continues to anticipate that economic conditions are likely to warrant exceptionally low levels of the federal funds rate for an extended period."
Whether the Fed can talk down or manipulate long-term rates into staying dormant is another matter. But it had more to say on the subject. "As previously announced, to provide support to mortgage lending and housing markets and to improve overall conditions in private credit markets, the Federal Reserve will purchase a total of up to $1.25 trillion of agency mortgage-backed securities and up to $200 billion of agency debt by the end of the year."
The important part here is "as previously announced." This sounds a bit like, "I really mean it. I'll do it. I'm dead serious. Don't make me buy those mortgage bonds. I'll do it if I have to. Don't push me."
In other words, the Fed is merely repeating what it said it would do earlier. It did not announce a new policy or its intention to expand quantitative easing to keep bond yields down. We imagine it would not want to advertise its willingness to keep buying bonds. That might induce a lot of selling and have the perverse effect of pushing U.S. yields up and investors into other assets.
But just for good measure the Fed repeated itself one more time. "In addition, the Federal Reserve will buy up to $300 billion of Treasury securities by autumn. The Committee will continue to evaluate the timing and overall amounts of its purchases of securities in light of the evolving economic outlook and conditions in financial markets. The Federal Reserve is monitoring the size and composition of its balance sheet and will make adjustments to its credit and liquidity programs as warranted."
So it's a waiting game now. The Fed hopes the economy recovers this year and that it can withdraw its massive liquidity measures before they leak through into the economy to cause inflation. So far, its credit facilities have not translated into an expansion in the money supply. That's what the bond market fears (which is also why ten-year Treasury yields were up on the day).
Here in Australia, yesterday's bleak global forecast by the World Bank was immediately countered by a ray of sunshine from the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). The OECD says Australia's economy will only shrink by about 0.3% this year. That's less than any other economy in the OECD. It also says the economy will grow by 2.4% next year, more than any other OECD economy.
Just how it reached that conclusion we don't know. Will unemployment peak out this year? Will housing roar ahead? Are exports to China about to soar again? What will be the engine of the Aussie economy in this recovery? It probably won't be bank lending.
Today's Australian reports that, "The Commonwealth Bank has flagged a sharp decline in its business lending portfolio as the bank admitted there would be future increases in provision charges due to the slowing domestic economy. The bank's chief financial officer, David Craig, told an investors conference in Sydney yesterday the operating environment for the bank remained difficult, but the economy was well-placed compared with its global peers."
Commonwealth Bank said it had total impaired assets of $3.9 billion at the end of the March quarter. That was up $785 million in three months. But it said the rate of growth in asset impairment slowed down. Hmm. We'll have a think on that and get back to you tomorrow.
You think they don't know their system is doomed. You think they really feared Iraq as a threat? How convenient that it holds so much oil. These are moves of deperation.
The reason people leave their countries is because they have a golden image of the west. It isn't all its made out to be, love your country it is worth alot more than you think it is, hamvatan.
Fariborz agha give me time. I have to go now, it's 3am here where I am. Im tired.
----------------------------------------
And all of this controversy circles me
And it seems like the media immediately points a finger at me
So I point one back at 'em
But not the index or the pinky or the ring or the thumb
It's the one you put up when you don't give a ****
When you won't just put up with the bull**** they pull
Cause they full of **** too
This message has been edited by PappaRage on Jul 5, 2009 5:51 PM
Firstly, Warren Buffet is entitled to his opinion, but that doesn't mean he is correct. But maybe more importantly, you are taking his statement out of context: Warren Buffett said there has been little progress over the past few months in the "economic war" being fought by the country. "We haven't got the economy moving yet, (...)." In other words, he doesn't state that "top industrialized secular nations are going to sh*ts right now." Iran is uneffected by the credit crunch because over 80% of its exports cosists of oil. Secondly, the current economic situation of Western nations is still far superieur to that of Iran. And finally, the economic prospect of Western nations is also far superieur to that of Iran. Bottom line remains, that "the top industrialized nations are secular and among the least religious in the wrold. They lead the world in terms of economy, politics, social development, science, military and so forth."
Also you haven't addressed any of my other points: how is it possible that a theocracy such as Iran, which is governed by "men of god", has a much higher corruption rating than any Western nation? And why are the happiest nations in the world Western?
On a different note, aren't you being a hypocrite for using all the opportunities that the West has to offer, while hoping for it's demise? And if anything, wouldn't the regime require your support now more than ever?
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#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
god and spirituality is the only way to a better life. But I'm talking to deaf ears here, you're an atheist..
Oh the irony of this statement.
Rephrase it...
'Science (knowledge) and reason leads to a better a life. But I'm talking to deaf ears here, you're religious..'
Its a flawed argument if ever one. When someone says 'the only way' means one is narrow-minded and ironically, doesn't know.
Siege of Tobruk - One German POW said: "I cannot understand you Australians. In Poland, France, and Belgium, once the tanks got through the soldiers took it for granted that they were beaten. But you are like demons. The tanks break through and your infantry still keep fighting." Rommel wrote of seeing "a batch of some fifty or sixty Australian prisoners ... marched off close behind usimmensely big and powerful men, who without question represented an elite formation of the British Empire, a fact that was also evident in battle."
"As a Internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Science is not separate from Islam. Science is separate from Christianity, that is the main reason it was removed from state positions (secularity). Until this day it is holding people back in science. Islam not only emphasizes the importance of science, but obligates it on the person.
The people with the greatest scientific achievements from the world's history were strict religious people. To name one who one of you even quote in your signature, Albert Einstein was a fundamentalist religious person. He famously even said that science without religion crippled. His best friend even said you'd go crazy from how much he talks about God. He said, he talks so much about God and religion that you'd think he is a cleric.
This is only one example, from practically all the great names were also religious and this is the west. From our own history there are even more examples.
@ Kozk and Fariborz,
Don't waste your time.These people are not known for their logics!
They left the country because of war!!
Why?Many others stayed!
Wasn't this war for "the glory of Islam" as Khomeini said?
Why flee the "glory of Islam"?
Didn't "the path to Jerusalem went through Baghdad"?
Why running away from "Freeing Jerusalem"?
Khomeini said that it was our religious duty.Why scape to a "corrupt secular state" to scape doing your "Duty"?
Wasn't getting killed in this war a "Divine Gift"?
Why avoid being gifted by God?
Why the hell this corrupted Australian society gave your family a refuge,a family fleeing a war between TWO MUSLIM NATIONS,shame on this secular,corrupt Australia!
Why aren't you going back now?
A lot of foreign students travel all over the world to study,a lot of them even go to Iran,why can't you go back to the Paradise?
Someone can go from Africa or Asia to the West for study why can't you go back to your own country??
Isn't little bit of discomfort worth not endangering your soul in this corrupt land?
The education you so disparately trying to get in this "corrupt" country is the corner stone of their Democracy.This is why people flee their war torn dictatorships and come to the West for a better life.
You don't have to say anything,as a matter of fact,don't say anything,it's meaningless anyway.Your sheer presence here proves an important point!
You can betch about the corrupt West all you want,the fact that you're here proves that Theocracy sucks and Democracy rules.
FlowerOfRahbar, the only relationship between science and Islam is that science can explain Islam from from a scientific perspective. This applies to all subjects, and is completely unrelated to religion: the truth exists independent of what you think of it. No amount of perceived religion effects a scientific outcome: the Jew will make the same discovery as the atheist.
As for Alber Einstein, he was at best an agnostic and he stated that "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" and not "that science without religion crippled". So does this mean that you are merely an ignorant fool, or a liar?
I ask you coward and hyopcrite and again: Why have you left your countries to come live in the West? In other words, why are you betraying the system you all claim to support so much?
------------------------------
#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
------------------------------
#Neda
------------------------------
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen Roberts
------------------------------
This message has been edited by Koz4k on Jul 5, 2009 10:55 PM
Current Topic - @ Saifudeen, Flanker and FlowerOfRahbar
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