Founds this excellents write ups of by our ummah brotehrhoods member country brothers person from bangladeshi forum who commentings on truths ful matters of shorts comings of secularism.

whole ummah brotherhoods must uniteds and beings ISLAMICS!


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Is secularism a stupidity for Muslim (majority) countries?

We see that the world's largest Muslim country Indonesia is very undeveloped/backward and Bangladesh the 3rd largest Muslim (majority) country is even more backward/underdeveloped, even India is more advanced than Bangladesh if we go by most indices (of development).

Apart from that Turkey is another large Muslim country which struck fear in the hearts of European (nonmuslims) and ruled over large swaths of Europe in history. But today they are almost useless, they have almost nothing to be proud of. Their nearest European neighbours are far ahead in development even though Turks have followed ataturk's 'secularism' blindly for 85 years, it seems as if they want to beg Europeans for some pittance even if that means selling out everything they have.

Fact is, all these 3 large Muslim (majority) countries are 'secular'.

Also if we look at Misr(Egypt), they are not only 'secular' but a secular dictatorship. Yet it is that country which produced wonderful civilizations of history and famous for that, nothing new needs to be said about this country of Pyramids, of sphinxes. It's this country where oldest continous university of the world Al Azhar University which is older than Oxford and Cambridge (themselves the oldest English speaking Universities) and older than Italian universities (first universities in entire european and western world), because Europeans gained a lot of scientific knowledge and the concept of universities from Muslims, Arabs and from elsewhere.

Where is that Misr(Egypt) today ? Only because of 'secularism'?

And if we look at a Muslim country with similar background and (population) size as us, ie. at Pakistan, we see an Islamic Republic. Although it's Islamic in name, it's leaders are/were mostly unIslamic and consequently their country isn't fully Islamic. This Pakistan has had stupid leaders who foolishly followed Americans' orders for decades to no avail and only to sink the tremendous potential of their nation into the 'gutter', but had this not happened Pakistan would have probably been a lot more developed than India.

Even now, if we compare it to Bangladesh, Pakistan's per capita income is higher, mobile phone users twice that of Bangladesh, Pakistan has nuclear weapons, Pakistan has Nobel laureates (Abdus Salam - world famous Muslim physicist who started TWAS and did a lot of work for science in Muslim countries), and in almost all other fields Pakistan is still marginally or greatly ahead of Bangladesh. And, despite being 1/8 the size of India, they regularly compete or try to fight head-to-head with India, and with great success in many cases.

There is also Islamic Iran and Saudi Arabia. Two such countries that even the terrible westerners can't say much negative about their immigrants. Those horrible westerners can't say 'Saudi/Iranian immigrants have flooded our country and going to take it to the 'dogs'" or similar such things. Yet almost all third world countries specially secular muslim countries which have immigrants to western countries suffer from bad reputation. Whether it be Bangladeshis or moroccans.

Not only in this, but Saudi Arabia and Iran are leadering actors in economy and science, important players in politics and military and easily leading countries in whole Muslim world.

Iran has been threatened and embargoed by filthy westerners for 3 decades. Alhamdulillah, today Iran is self sufficient in many fields, even when two of their neighbouring countries have been occupied by 'shaytan' american soldiers, lakhs and lakhs of them, our Iranian brothers have been excelling in such scientific research, in such industry, sports and other fields, that it defies belief.

Iran even under such (western engineered) conditions is world's top 15 or 16 largest automobile maker, while Bangladesh doesn't even make any automobiles.

Iran is the only Muslim country who sent satellite to space using their own rockets. Apart from this, we see slightly less Islamic countries like UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman also made significant strides in many fields on a global scale, and developed a lot more in comparison to Bangladesh ,Indonesia or Turkey.

Question is, why? These 3 - BD, Indonesia and Turkey - has much larger population, yet they can't deveop, and why can't Egypt develop and do justice to their magnificent history?

Is secularism the real reason?

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I am old Christiankiller
Sorry for offensive to our good religion christian brothers
I am not hating christians

also founds this same factoids in same place

Alhamdulillah our islamics brothers must makings 50 out of top 100 supercomputers list at very least, saudi arabian ummah brothers of greats islamics reasonings and practices are beings greats leaders of solidarity of ummah brotherhoods persons in methodics of islamics path, excludings the pro amerikunts leaderships of khaleeji countrieds

Whole ummah brotherhoods must beings unite!

top 100 fastest supercomputers includings two from saudi arabians of our ummahbrotherhoods nations, more must beings made already!

http://www.top500.org/list/2009/06/100

14 King Abdullah University of Science and Technology
Saudia Arabia Shaheen - Blue Gene/P Solution / 2009
IBM
..
99 Jeraisy Computer and Communication Services
Saudia Arabia Cluster Platform 3000 BL460c, Xeon 54xx 3 GHz, Infiniband / 2009
Hewlett-Packard419239.7050.30
"

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I am old Christiankiller
Sorry for offensive to our good religion christian brothers
I am not hating christians

angloziongaylord the only common think those countries have is islam...that's why they're backwards, just like any other islamic country in the world (UAE kinda different due to the large number of westerners living there)..

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Quoting a Turkish forumer:
"It's a well known fact that most of the boys or girls living in south-eastern Turkey are losing their virginities to horses or dogs of their villages, so I don't think this will suprise any Turk in this forum; we are used to these kinda news..."

greece is modern?

anglozion is not a Muslim.
he does not know how to pray and could not answer even the basic questions about Islam, Arabic the an admin posted he was posting from usa.

a

gayreek fag, learn to read first illiterarte baboon

@christians abdullah,

anglozions are always beings anti islamics upto now also u are beings right.

Alhamdulillah whole of ummah brotherhoods persons must beings uniteds.

but donts against startings off withs old rants of anglozionazikillers beings not knowings about islamics law, when you are beings sayings
there havings fixed number of rakats in all prayers.



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I am old Christiankiller
Sorry for offensive to our good religion christian brothers
I am not hating christians

@Anglo

Oh come on "Dragon", "KiddyKawk", stop this stupidity. Your act was funny for about ten minutes after that it became boring.

@Fariborz, I beg to differ! I find christiankiller equally funny everytime ,

awe comeon guys dont take him seriously it is obviouse he is making fun of what he is representing just LOL and enjoy his show =)

CK you rock lol!

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http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."

-Noam Chomsky

I never claimed there were a fixed number, I asked you how many in your first morning prayer.

silly boy...

a

Dienekis,

The UAE became a country which is on its way to advancement, because of good governance. Cutting down red tape, deregulation, and government support of the private sector were the reasons why the UAE was different. It is a federation of seven emirates, all competing with one another. Such decentralization and competition does not exist anywhere else in the middle east.

The European expats have little to do with the growth in Dubai, many of these expatriates came here for jobs in the real estate sector, and financial companies which didnt produce any real wealth, while productive sectors such as construction, oil, industry, IT and services used a majority asian and arab staff.

Thanks,

Ahmed

@Anglo

Oh come on "Dragon", "KiddyKawk", stop this stupidity. Your act was funny for about ten minutes after that it became boring.


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Jez I can't believe there are people who think this anglokiller is "Dragon", "KiddyKawk".

anglokiller can you please clarify your identity

I am not trying to be insulting here but why have Islamic countries gone backward in time? And are still moving that way. Why have they become backwards with mostly illiterate populations? Was it the religion? Poor rulers?The Turks? Religious fanatascism? During the time of the early caliphate Bagdad, Cordoba and Damascus were some of the greatest learning centers and had great universities, while Europe was in the middle ages. Everyone was still practicing Islam then so that might not be the cause. The Arabs brought us Math/Algebra, advances in medicine. What happened? Why are many Islamic countrues slipping backwards today?

Oh come on "Dragon", "KiddyKawk", stop this stupidity. Your act was funny for about ten minutes after that it became boring.
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he is one of the brain child of CA ..

SURRENDER OF PAKI ARMY IN 1971
1N 1971 A NEW HISTORY AS WELL AS A NEW NATION WAS CREATED BY WE THE INDIANS..

"I am not trying to be insulting here but why have Islamic countries gone backward in time? And are still moving that way. Why have they become backwards with mostly illiterate populations? Was it the religion? Poor rulers?The Turks? Religious fanatascism? During the time of the early caliphate Bagdad, Cordoba and Damascus were some of the greatest learning centers and had great universities, while Europe was in the middle ages. Everyone was still practicing Islam then so that might not be the cause. The Arabs brought us Math/Algebra, advances in medicine. What happened? Why are many Islamic countrues slipping backwards today?"

Thank you for your question. You are not being insulting at all, and this question is constantly asked in the Arab countries to day. I will address your question with some degree of detail.

What happened that allowed the Arabs to go from the Golden Ages of Al-Andalus and Baghdad, to this present state ?

1) Massive depopulation: During the Ummayad and Abbasid Empires, the Arabs could rely on a large pool of people from the Arabian Peninsula, concentrated around the Oases, Yemen, Southern Oman and Part of Saudi Arabia. These were all semi-arid areas. After the Arabs had conquered their new territories, they began to settle in them. Some Arab cities were even on the Afghan/Chinese border of today. This caused a huge outflux of the population from the Arabian deserts and Yemen. Combined with the mass slaughter of the mongols (Something not experienced by Europe and which still affects Russia, Iran and the Arab countries today), this had the effect of depopulation in the present day Arab League member states. The centers of learning such as Baghdad were completely destroyed by the mongols, and almost all the Arab and Persian Islamic scientific legacy would be lost had it not been for the copies stored in Egypt. By the end of this huge depopulation, all the arab states had but a few hundred thousand people each, not enough to support large cities.

2) Lack of subsequent investment in education: In the regions where there was some population of Arabs left in some numbers (Egypt, Syria, Palestine and Jordan) The governing authorities (The Ottoman Empire at this time) did not support the sciences and philosophy. The only technical university to be opened was the Istanbul Technical University (Which was, of course, in istanbul) in 1773. Such great Arab scientists as Taqi-Al-Din Al Saadi were still being produced as late as the 1500s, but scientific research was not supported by Authorities in his land. Of course, an observatory was built, but this again, was built in istanbul. While the Ottoman empire is well-known for its military prowress, the scientific element to this empire was very lacking. So while europe developed universities and Newton and Gallileo, the best minds of the Islamic and Arab world were misused on the science of theology.

3) Imperialism: Of course, without saying, It is not in the Interest of Imperial Authorities to help develop any science or technology in the conquered countries, but rather the opposite. This is true at least for the European powers (Egypt, France). This mistake is the Arabs own, for allowing another Imperial power to interfere in their affairs.

4) Dictatorships: Every single one of the 22 Arab countries today is ruled by a dictatorship. Some are more supportive of arts and the sciences than others, but no less, these systems stifle knowledge and development. Many Arab scientists have left because of the nature of their regimes.

What I see as bright spots for the future are:

1) Repopulation of the Arab world: The past 50 years have seen a huge boom in the population of the Arab world, from around 50 million in the 1940s, to the present day level of 330 million.

2) The technological revolution: The revolution in the internet and online messageboards has been very influental for the development of the Arab scientific community. With the availability of papers, knowledge and an opportunity to talk to other scientists (via the many thousands of Arabic scientific messageboards) has given people a medium for greater communication. It has also severely weakened the power base of the dictatorships, now information is decentralized and as we say "Everything is on the Internet".

3) The increase in literacy to levels comparable with the Abbasid Empire is also a good spot, this mobilizes a greater amount of the population for work in the technical and scientific fields. Although the issue of parity for women in the field of education needs to be addressed.

"Question is, why? These 3 - BD, Indonesia and Turkey.........."

Dont even dare to include TURKEY to your moronic islamist wetdreams fvcking backward ARAB.

Keep away from my country, then do whatever you want to do.





"Independence is My Character"
M. Kemal ATATÜRK

This guy is not arab, he is bengali I think. So your comment is really unessecary.

"The Arabs brought us Math/Algebra, advances in medicine. What happened?"

Strictly speaking, the Arabs didnt invent Algebra, Geometry, medicine etc. They were at best discoverers and "couriers" of these sciences. If you want to give them credit then you can say they studied and done research on them.

Geometry is Greek domain. I still curse Pythagoras for his blasted theorems, no offence my Greek friends but maths was never my favourite subject, geometry even less.

The Greeks came up with the science of cubes, angles, rectangles etc. You wont find a single Arab theorem in geometry.

Regarding Algebra, it was Indian. Of course we will have some Arab ragheads vehemently denying this, partly to be blamed for this is history. India in the medieval ages was a closed up society with little contact with the outside world, the Arabs who had contact with the Europeans had invaded India and then borrowed Indian Algebra.

Now we have oxymorons like "Indo-Arabic" numerals whereas it should have been Indian numerals.

And as far as medicine goes, simply google for Sushruta. There is no need to discuss it furthur.






colours of Kaziranga

Regarding Algebra, it was Indian. Of course we will have some Arab ragheads vehemently denying this, partly to be blamed for this is history. India in the medieval ages was a closed up society with little contact with the outside world, the Arabs who had contact with the Europeans had invaded India and then borrowed Indian Algebra.

The word "algebra" is named after the Arabic word "al-jabr , " from the title of the book al-Kitb al-mutaar f isb al-abr wa-l-muqbala , , meaning The book of Summary Concerning Calculating by Transposition and Reduction, a book written by the Islamic Persian mathematician, Muhammad ibn Ms al-Khwrizm (considered the "father of algebra"), in 820.


Father of Algebra buddy.

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Degarguniyemoon Dare Shoru Mishe, Khune Nedaro Biarji Nimishe!

RIP Nedayemoon

For my Titty

It is easy to use words like raghead and forget that ones own people wear rags on their heads. Anyway, the Arabs had many mathematicians who did alot of research into topics such as algebra and geometry. Notable among these are:

Ahmed ibn Yusuf (who later inspired Fibonacci's liber abaci)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_ibn_Yusuf

Al-Hazen (Geometry and simple numbers)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhazen

Al-Zarqali
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_scientists_and_scholars#Z

Ibn Bajjah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Bajjah

Ibn Al Bannah (Algebra)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Al_Bannah

We can go on and on, and you will see that the Arabs contributed a great deal to classical and eventually modern mathematics, medicine, science and technology. It is a conveniently generated inaccuracy and falsehood to claim that the Arabs invented nothing and did nothing but pillage and destroy (which they actually did not do to scales seen before and after them). To say that the Indians/Iranians invented everything and the Arabs were just couriers is not accurate at all.

"The European expats have little to do with the growth in Dubai, many of these expatriates came here for jobs in the real estate sector, and financial companies which didnt produce any real wealth, while productive sectors such as construction, oil, industry, IT and services used a majority asian and arab staff."

Ahmed

"construction, oil, industry, IT and services used a majority asian and arab staff"

it is a fact that the majority of the staff in all companies are asians, all workers are indian/pakistani/bengali and most of the office clerks are filippino/indians...fact also is that in the above industries the top specialists and managers are Westerners.

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Quoting a Turkish forumer:
"It's a well known fact that most of the boys or girls living in south-eastern Turkey are losing their virginities to horses or dogs of their villages, so I don't think this will suprise any Turk in this forum; we are used to these kinda news..."

there are many non-muslim secular nations which are leaders in many fields today. does this mean

1. being non muslim is better.
2. being secular is better. or
3. being non muslim and secular is better.

i reckon its not about faiths or systems. for one, its about convictions. passion. commitment. zealousness.

a thief is good in what he does best i.e. thieving because he embraced full heartedly his profession with convictions, passion, commitment, zealousness blah blah blah.

similarly, a scientist. or the leader of a nation.

why a true muslim annoys from secularism so much ?

l dont see any reason...

could it be reason lack of TAKVA ?

LOL.

Right secularism is not fit for muslim countries.

Only for non-muslim countries, so the muslims can immigrate there and multiply.

yes nad no a degree is needed but not full blown secularism like turkey it will inevitably end with extremists taking over were as a small but solid degree of islamic princiles isolates extremists ie malaysia