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The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 7 2009 at 11:21 PM

  (Login MikePapa1)
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Reformist Iranian-French Writer Chahdortt Djavann: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed
By: N. Maruani *

Introduction

The debate on the veil in France recently flared up again, after French Secretary of State for Urban Policies Fadela Amara said that the burqa and niqab should be banned in public places, and French President Nicolas Sarkozy said in parliament that the burqa was "not welcome in France." [1] In this debate, French media outlets have frequently cited the writings of Chahdortt Djavann.

An Iranian-born French writer, Djavann is the author of two influential books, Bas les Voiles (Veils Off) [2] and Que Pense Allah de l'Europe (What Does Allah Think of Europe?), [3] both of which deal with the meaning and implications of the veil as a political tool. [4] Veils Off in particular had a strong impact on the veil debate in France, including on the discussions that took place in the French parliament prior to the passing of the 2004 law banning "conspicuous religious signs in schools." [5] Djavann testified before the Stasi Commission, formed in 2003 by then-president Jacques Chirac to investigate the issue of preserving secularism in the French Republic and to prepare the ground for passing a law on the veil. [6] During the hearing, she clashed with French sociologist Alain Touraine, who claimed that Iranian women were happy with wearing the veil.

Prominent political figures wrote her to express support for her views, including former prime minister Laurent Fabius, as well as Chirac himself, who wrote that Veils Off would have a positive impact on the difficult debate over secularism.

The following is a review of Djavann's writings on the issue of the veil, based on her books Bas les Voiles and Que Pense Allah de l'Europe?, and on several interviews with her.

The Veil as a Political Weapon

Que Pense Allah de l'Europe first presents the views of the proponents of the veil, such as Muslim women who say, "The veil represents my religion, my culture and my identity. It is a sign of modesty, of self-respect, of submission to God. It is a religious duty written in the Koran... [I wear it] out of my own free will..." Also presented are the opinions of European intellectuals who defend the veil on the basis of "the right to be different" and "religious freedom," and who ask, for example, "If body-piercing and displaying one's navel is allowed, how can the veil be banned?"

In response to this argument, Djavann points out that no regime has ever forced women to go about with their navels showing, whereas the veil is imposed upon several hundred million women around the world. She writes that the veil cannot be presented as a personal choice, disregarding centuries of Islamic history. She adds that it is inappropriate to probe the motivations of every young girl wearing the veil when what is at stake is a political agenda.

Djavann explains further: "The veil has never been innocent or innocuous. It has always signified the submission of women to men and the denial of legal rights to women in Islamic countries." She stresses that the Islamists did not invent the veil, but have turned it into a weapon and made of it the symbol of their cause.

Addressing the growing phenomenon of veiled women in European Muslim communities, Djavann points out its centrality to the Islamist propaganda: "The political, ideological, and psychological impact of the veil goes far beyond its appearance If this weren't the case, why would the Islamists make it their main focus? [7]... It constitutes a constant call to order by Islamic law."

"The Spread of the Veil in Europe is a Very Clear Indicator of the Spread of Islamism": "Iran Has Imposed the Veil on All Women, Including Christian and Jewish Women"

The veil, Djavann argues, reflects a refusal to integrate, and its spread in Europe is a very clear indicator of the spread of Islamism. Therefore, intellectuals who defend it, in an attempt to be understanding and compassionate, are in fact promoting Islamism: "The French intellectuals who oppose the banning of the veil in secular schools must understand that they are supporting Islamic dictatorships," she writes.

Djavann stresses that Islam can exist without the veil, but the Islamist system cannot, because "the veil is the symbol, the flag and the keystone of the Islamic system." As an example, she presents Iran, which "has imposed the veil on all women, including Christian and Jewish women, and has deployed its paramilitary forces to enforce the wearing of the veil throughout Iran."

As for those young girls who insist on wearing the veil in France, she says that "they encourage oppression against all the women in Muslim countries who strive to escape the totalitarian hold of the hijab, and [even] risk their lives to do so."

Islamists Reject French Law - Yet Strive to Impose Their Own Laws on Public Life

Islamists claim that the veil is being rejected due to racism, and they call for respect for freedom of worship. However, Djavann points out, when Islamists threatened France because of the ban on the veil in public schools, what was at stake was not the girls' hair, or religion - but political power. While denying the State the right to interfere in what they term religious affairs, the Islamists are striving to impose their laws on schools, including physical education classes, and on higher education and public services. As in Iran, "in order to enforce Islamic regulations, [Iranian leaders] tried to implement mosque laws in public areas: separate entrances for men and women, separate dining rooms, separate libraries and workrooms, separate swimming pools" [8]

Djavann argues that Islamists take advantage of the difficulties encountered by many Muslims in integrating into French society - difficulties intensified by the veil. He says: "The veil is not the attractive symbol of identity, but the expression of estrangement and isolation "

Islamists seek to enroll the children of immigrants into the Islamist system in order to gain political power, Djavann says: To those who feel excluded, preachers offer the homeland of Islam. Islam prevails over all nationalities and over cultural and linguistic differences. "The preachers claim that there must be a return to the lost Islamic identity. This identity is presented as a remedy to Western ills." Djavann terms this strategy in which the veil is a central component "Islamic colonialism."

Muslim Women Are Told They Can Swim at Specific Hours - But If They Swim During Mixed Hours, They Are Called Whores

Djavann believes that there must be no compromise with Islamism in state-managed institutions, since any compromise will lead to more oppression. She gives the example of the Islamists' demand for separate hours for men and women for swimming pools: "This is a case of indirect repression. Muslim women are told they can swim at specific hours, but if they choose to go swimming in mixed hours, they will be called whores It is in the name of democracy that Islamists demand separate hours for women. And then they manage to impose those separate hours on all Muslim women in their areas." [9]

Regarding the situation in schools, she writes: "Those intellectuals who oppose expelling students from school because they are veiled, on the premise that this exclusion will only worsen their situation whereas school will teach them freedom, [are mistaken]. Allowing veil-wearing in schools will only encourage it in France. Allowing girls to wear the veil at school places those teens living in [immigrant] suburbs under the yoke of Islamic dogma, and makes it even more difficult for them to attain emancipation. Some of them have already been called whores because they refused to wear the veil."

Veiling Young Girls: Sexual Abuse That Should Be Outlawed

Djavann also analyzes the social and psychological damage caused by wearing the veil, saying that it denies women any normal social life, because it reduces their social life to that of sexual objects. Wearing the veil only "points to what the veil is hiding It hides what no one might look at if it were not hidden The veil calls the attention and energy of men" to what it conceals. As the Islamist system covers women's heads, it only sees them as genitals, Djavann argues. Hence she calls the veil "pornographic on the symbolic level." [10]

Djavann especially condemns the veiling of little girls, calling it abuse because it makes them internalize at an early age that they should be ashamed: "Don't we hide what we are ashamed of?... Since childhood, these veiled girls feel guilty From childhood, little girls are aware that they are a threat to boys and men" In addition, the girls are a "constant threat to Islamic morals: a girl could bring about a crime, be slaughtered by her father or brothers to cleanse their sullied honor. Indeed, the honor of men is cleansed with girls' blood!"

The veil may mean several things, Djavann explains. It may mean that the woman has become the property of a man; it may also mean - in the case of young girls - that they are being marketed as sexual objects, ready to wed.

She goes on to write: "When you veil a child, you put her on the sex and marriage market, making her exist only for the interest of men, for [the purpose of] sex and marriage Forcing the veil on a minor is abuse, because you do what you like to her body and turn her into a sex object designated for men Several ethnologists once defended genital mutilation in the name of cultural differences Let us not make the same mistake with the Islamic veil: It is not in the name of secularism that veil wearing should be banned but in the name of human rights and the protection of minors."

Referring to those French intellectuals who consider the veil in schools to be the expression of teenagers' quest for identity, she says: "The veil does not result from an identity problem. It is an attack on the woman's body The act of burying the body of a woman under a piece of cloth is extremely serious, similar to genital mutilation. Veiling a minor is abuse There is a need for legislation to ban the veil, at least in schools." [11]

Djavann notes that "even in Muslim countries, making minors wear the veil is considered extremist. In its previous history, France knew how to limit the influence of Catholic rules. Why shouldn't it do the same with Islamic rules? [12]

The Veil Damages Self Image, Social Life - For Both Women and Men

Djavann adds: "If you are a woman [in Islamist societies], you dare not go out on your own or have a cup of coffee at a bar. Relations between men and women are reduced to sexuality In Iran, in universities, circulars forbid girls and boys from greeting each other Can you imagine what humiliation this is?" [13]

Recalling the decade she spent wearing a veil in Iran, she says that much of the problem comes from the fact that the honor of Muslim men depends upon the female body: "I felt humiliation at being a woman A girl is considered [a source of] shame and danger. Think about it: she may harm a man's honor! I would like someone to tell me why a man feels defiled if a woman violates modesty regulations. Why does the honor of Muslim men depend on the bodies of Muslim women? They should be responsible for their own honor!" [14]

Men also bear the consequences of this dependency, Djavann asserts: "This kind of relationship is more damaging to men than to women The man bases his existence on his relationship to the female sex He is a man because he is able to guarantee the decency and the good behavior of the female body within his family; he is a man because he owns the female body - his mother's, his sister's, his wife's, his daughters'" In other words, "the more a woman is ashamed and modest, the more her father, brothers and husband are honored"

Djavann also points out that the debate on the veil issue should not conceal other problems: economic inequality, lodging, education. Political leaders should not evade their responsibilities and abandon immigrants to their predicament, dooming them to ghettoes cut off from French society.

* N. Maruani is a Research Fellow at MEMRI.

[1] Sarkozy declared in a parliamentary address on June 22, 2009, that the burqa, which covers women from head to toe, is "not welcome" in France, evoking strong criticism from French Muslim leaders.

[2] Bas les Voiles, Gallimard, 2003.

[3] Que Pense Allah de l'Europe?, Gallimard, 2004.

[4] In 2006, Djavann published "Comment Peut-On Etre Français?" ("How to Be French," Flammarion, 2006), a philosophical essay addressed to 18th century French author Montesquieu, who wrote the famous satirical work Persian Letters (Lettres persanes).

[5] This law bans the wearing of conspicuous religious symbols in French public primary and secondary schools.

[6] L'Express (France), October 30, 2003,http://www.lexpress.fr/info/societe/dossier/foulard/dossier.asp?ida=409994. On July 1, 2003 French president Jacques Chirac entrusted Bernard Stasi, mediator of the French Republic, with the leadership of a committee to evaluate the implementation of the principle of secularism in the French Republic, with regard to "the neutrality of public services, respect for pluralism, religious freedom, freedom of speech, reinforcement of cohesion and brotherhood among citizens, rejection of discrimination, gender equality, and dignity of women." This committee, comprising 20 "wise men" (and women), was based on the model of the 1987 committee on the "code of nationality," and consulted with political parties, religious authorities, and the civil society.

[7] "Dévoilez Chahdortt," an interview by Isabelle Robineau in the French literary monthly Topo,http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:IITZshokpqwJ:www.chapitre.com/accueil.asp%3.

[8] Tariq Ramadan advocated separate hours for men and women in swimming pools, saying: "Today swimming pools here are not Islamic You cannot go there because your eyes are set on things that you should not see" See video on website of French intellectual, writer, and activist Caroline Fourest:http://carolinefourest.wordpress.com/2008/05/11/tariq-ramadan-contre-les-piscines-mixtes/ or on YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAuLhit-BHA.

[9] "Devoilez Chahdortt," an interview by Isabelle Robineau in the French literary monthly Topo,http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:IITZshokpqwJ:www.chapitre.com/accueil.asp%3.

[10] See also "Une pudeur pornographique" ("A pornographic modesty"), published in the Communist daily l'Humanité, December 19, 2003,http://www.humanite.fr/popup_print.php3?id_article=384774.

[11] Interview by Victor Dixmier, www.leparisien.com, October 17, 2003.

[12] Interview with Chahdortt Djavann published by online French daily on Middle East affairs www.proche-orient.info, October 24, 2003.

[13] "Devoilez Chahdortt", an interview by Isabelle Robineau in the French literary monthly Topo,http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:IITZshokpqwJ:www.chapitre.com/accueil.asp%3.

[14] Interview by Ilana Moryoussef, in the online Middle East affairs daily www.proche-orient.info, October 24, 2003.

http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=IA53309

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Provost

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States 1924-1929

 
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(Login UAEii)
Arab Legion

Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 7 2009, 11:32 PM 

This article is not precise. It uses the hijab (head covering only) and the niqab (face covering) interchangeably. Many members of my family wear the hijab vouluntarily, because they want to personally. What political weapon and form of sexual abuse is this ?

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(Login constantinus)
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Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 8 2009, 1:39 AM 

Many members of my family wear the hijab vouluntarily, because they want to personally
..........
as much as they speak Arabic voluntarily i guess...
or as much as the feel Arab national voluntarily...

it was forced down their throat..

and yes its a sexual abuse. when a women thinks she is a big vagina and need to cover up, she needs a shrink to get her of that psychosis..

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Ali's knife victim.
(Login howitz)
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Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 8 2009, 1:43 AM 

An atheist kurd lol
Who needs pointers from that?
Acting cool in real life i bet with you´re spiked hair and gay parfume
would rather see muslims walking down my street than that

 
 


(Login UAEii)
Arab Legion

Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 8 2009, 2:09 AM 

@ Constantinus

"as much as they speak Arabic voluntarily i guess...
or as much as the feel Arab national voluntarily...

it was forced down their throat..

and yes its a sexual abuse. when a women thinks she is a big vagina and need to cover up, she needs a shrink to get her of that psychosis.."

My family has been arab for at least 2,000 years. They have been arab for a very long time. It is not a sexual abuse, abuse is a person being attacked by another person unfairly. An option to choose to wear what you want is a personal freedom based on your beliefs.

I hope that my time is not wasted with you, and you can see the reasoning behind my statements.

a gift for you, my greek friend happy.gif it is the flag of your country.

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This message has been edited by UAEii on Jul 8, 2009 2:45 PM
This message has been edited by UAEii on Jul 8, 2009 2:12 AM


 
 

Ali's knife victim.
(Login Persian_revenge)
EXPERT POSTER

Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 8 2009, 3:38 AM 

@Mike

Nice article. Thanks. I am actually a big fan of Javan and proudly watched her march on the streets of Paris in 2004 with those who supported the law that was not a law yet at the time.

These free thinking Iranian women are a source of great pride for me personally. She is intellectually unmasking those who are abusing freedom in Europe and creating a bad aura for all allochtones. Let's see if Islamists can answer her in kind without resorting to violence.

It is not a sexual abuse

I am afraid you don't sound as if you read the article. You will find the answer above. Please read it completely. Flatly denying something doesn't really help your case.

One more thing: the Iranian flag above is not the real flag. This flag only represents a regime not the Iranian nation since most Iranians yearn to see their beloved Iranian lion and Sun -simple of Iran- on their flag instead of the symbol of some non-Iranian pagan God.

iran_flag.jpg -------------------------------------------



    
This message has been edited by Persian_revenge on Jul 8, 2009 4:07 AM
This message has been edited by Persian_revenge on Jul 8, 2009 4:05 AM
This message has been edited by Persian_revenge on Jul 8, 2009 3:58 AM


 
 


(Login Persian_revenge)
EXPERT POSTER

Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 8 2009, 4:02 AM 

By the way, Kurds are famous for their free thinking.

Even that Iraqi flag is a new flag. A political move by stupid Saddam that as a member of the secularist Bath party decided to adopt those words to win sympathy in the Islamic world and come across as a Muslim leader resisting the American invaders.

BS

 



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(Login Chossmelli)

Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 8 2009, 5:02 AM 

While I agree that many cases, most likely the majority of women who wear any form of hijab do so because of direct request from someone in their family, laws of the nations or an understood cultural push to wear the hijab lest they are painted with the mark of shame.

One must also acknowledge the fact that there are those that do choose to wear the hijab just like there are those that voluntarily convert to Islam, I know for a fact a dozen women that actually choose to wear the hijab even though their families greatly frowns upon it! One must respect their wishes and choice and give them the right to believe and follow in any faith they choose without trying to downgrade them.


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"as much as they speak Arabic voluntarily i guess...
or as much as the feel Arab national voluntarily...

it was forced down their throat..

and yes its a sexual abuse. when a women thinks she is a big vagina and need to cover up, she needs a shrink to get her of that psychosis.."


LOL, this is some form of advanced sexual abuse involving language schooling and recieving citizen ship.... ah jeee...

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@Ahmed, constantinus is not a kurd he ia greek member that is only using kurds to annoy turkish members.

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(Login Chossmelli)

Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 8 2009, 5:11 AM 

Also I advise people to start directing their anger towards the person who wrote this article mr Mikepapa.

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"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
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(Login UAEii)
Arab Legion

Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 8 2009, 2:44 PM 

I have modified my posting, thank you chossmelli happy.gif

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(Login UAEii)
Arab Legion

Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 8 2009, 2:56 PM 

And regarding mikepapa, the credibility of his articles is lacking, quoting a zionist or zionist supported think thank like memri is hardly the way to go IMO.

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Rzecz
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Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 8 2009, 2:59 PM 

Being an Emo is sexual abuse as well.

Siege of Tobruk - One German POW said: "I cannot understand you Australians. In Poland, France, and Belgium, once the tanks got through the soldiers took it for granted that they were beaten. But you are like demons. The tanks break through and your infantry still keep fighting." Rommel wrote of seeing "a batch of some fifty or sixty Australian prisoners ... marched off close behind usimmensely big and powerful men, who without question represented an elite formation of the British Empire, a fact that was also evident in battle."

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(Login MikePapa1)
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Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 8 2009, 9:33 PM 

Then Ahmad, we cannot quote anything but Jihadi websites and press, because according to you all media is either Zionist or Zionist controlled. What article could I ever post that would give me "Credibility?" can you give me an example of "credible" articles?

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Provost

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States 1924-1929

 
 

Ali's knife victim.
(Login constantinus)
Member

Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 8 2009, 9:42 PM 

i see we have self proclaim ethnologists also in this forum...


to the point;

yes is a sexual abuse.

my point is and its very valid (for those that don't believe that cultural relativism and western liberalism came out of parthenogenesis) that its culturally enforced m as nationality and language thus not voluntarily.


on objective grounds one has to look at the actual sociological message of hijab and niqab:

-A is an attack on women sexuality. sociological it carries with it unacceptable statements about womensrights or how women should be perceived in a scientific values driven nation.

(western policies for women emancipation didn't start with the Islamic dress code oppotition;in fact similar arguments could have been made for almost all of the stages of the gradual women emancipation in the west)

-B is both from phychiatrical and psychological terms a psychosis, as other forms of cultural beliefs can transform into such-as nationalism, religion identification etc.


-c is generation wide abuse, parents affect their children , and chhildren their own etc.(so its a case of child abuse also)

(asin the case of dening scientific education for children is not a privilage the parents have, neither inflicting guilt sydrms to girls is consider their right either)




the only reasonable debate that can one has is whether its allowed for a state to intervene or not...

there different models of state addressing issues of similar fashion:

-french model of aggressive secular humanism
-American model of secular state and multicultural respect.


i happen to believe in the correctness of the first. science and scientific knowledge is or should be always the official ideology of a state and the state should actively promote and in depth the social foundation of scientific analysis and perception of disputes

you would have little success in enrolling any sociologist, anthropologist or psychologist in the defend of a cultural practice that promotes a patriarchal vision and domination over women sexuality.
where as its a dominant believe with in a nation or a national group is irrelevant. you will find equally dominant rape cultural believes in many African states with 70% of the men adhering the cultural purification of an equally unacceptable norm.






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(Login Bigboywasim)
Pakistan

Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 9 2009, 5:15 AM 


When women cover themselves by choice in the West then they are backwards and need to be deported.

In Muslim countries they are forced to wear it.

This is bull made by Muslim haters.

Treating women like sexual objects is sexual abuse.

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The Muslims believe that Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) was not crucified on the cross. They believe that he was raised to the heavens by the Lord and the Lord put someone (the Lord made him look like Jesus) in Jesus spot. There will be a day when Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) will return to this world. He will return not as a prophet but as a follower of Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him). Upon his arrival all the world's Christians will become Muslims. After some time the whole world will become Muslim for the Lord has said the whole world will taste Islam. I can't wait for that day. Indeed only someone so great can bring something so beautiful.

Long live the great Muslim people.
Long live the great Muslim nations.

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Scotch
(Login Chossmelli)

Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 9 2009, 4:27 PM 

mr. Mikepapa is evil he sits all day typing these articles just to incite violence, he is also the head of FOX news.

evil.



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"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."


-Noam Chomsky

 
 

Ahmed
(Login UAEii)
Arab Legion

Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 9 2009, 9:23 PM 

mikepapa,

"Then Ahmad, we cannot quote anything but Jihadi websites and press, because according to you all media is either Zionist or Zionist controlled. What article could I ever post that would give me "Credibility?" can you give me an example of "credible" articles?"

I never said that all media is zionist or zionist controlled. Your lack of accuracy needs to be addressed. Furthermore, using Zionist-funded thinktanks and "media organizations" such as MEMRI only shows that you rely on biased, uncredible news sources. Additionally, you bring up the issue of Jihdai websites. Is it because im Arab, I am according to you, automatically drawn to the nonsense spewed on those websites ?. How about something independent, precise and neutral ? Like from the Guardian, the independent, news agencies such as Reuters, etc. These are all organizations which care about their reputation more than the political agenda of any one group.

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(Login MikePapa1)
Administrator

Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 9 2009, 10:11 PM 

I never said that all media is zionist or zionist controlled.

No, Ahmad, you did not say that. It is, however, part of the template when these things are discussed. You did not say it but it permeates this entire discussion. Anything in the Western media is always decried here as biased, Zionist inspired propaganda. Surely that has not escaped your notice, Ahmad.

Your lack of accuracy needs to be addressed.

How so, Ahmad? What have I said that is inaccurate?

Furthermore, using Zionist-funded thinktanks and "media organizations" such as MEMRI only shows that you rely on biased, uncredible news sources.

As I have said here repeatedly, Ahmad, I post articles I find interesting. I do not nor have I ever vouched for their accuracy or truthfulness. Interestingly, I asked a question,actually a series of questions, which you avoided answering. Avoiding them?

Additionally, you bring up the issue of Jihdai websites.

Yes, I did.

Is it because im Arab, I am according to you, automatically drawn to the nonsense spewed on those websites ?.

No, Ahmad, not be cause you are an Arab, not because you are Muslim, but rather because you seem to accept some propaganda as Gospel, but other as not.

How about something independent, precise and neutral ?

That would be good, if you could find such a source. My experience is that all sources tend to have bias one way or the other. The key is to read the same story from a variety of sources so that you can discern the truth based upon diverse reporting.

Like from the Guardian, the independent, news agencies such as Reuters, etc.

None of these sources are unbiased. The Guardian, for example, has long had a bent opposed to Israel.

These are all organizations which care about their reputation more than the political agenda of any one group.

Actually, they care about their own agendas. That is far more important than the agenda of any group.

Jack.gif [linked image]


Provost

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States 1924-1929


    
This message has been edited by MikePapa1 on Jul 9, 2009 10:59 PM


 
 

nsdap_id
(Login nsdap_id)
Member

@Ahmed al-Imarati

July 10 2009, 1:19 PM 


You're right. Many of my former female schoolmates are proudly showing their covered heads. They look happire than I used to know during my teenage years.

Cool, calm and confident radiated from their smiles. Ignorant village lawyer like Provost and Greek teenager like Constant-ANAL won't understand our point of view aside from digging and licking MEMRI toilet-papers...

"If we do [what Hezbollah accomplished], this Israeli army full of gay soldiers and full of corruption and with old-fashioned war methods can be defeated also in Palestine."


 
 


(Login constantinus)
Member

Re: The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed

July 10 2009, 1:47 PM 

there is no your point of vie nor my point of view you moron...

science treats people on universal level not based on their cultural placement...
there as as much reason in hijab as female or male circumcision.
its cultural tradition nothing more nothing less and mass grandiose social psychosis with female sexuality.


countries like Syria turkey or Tunisia are lucky cause they don't have socio economical factors that prevent their gradual anthropological evolution.
social political and economic conditions and needs are directing the women emancipation in the same way it has been previously been done in west during the industrial revolution.

Arabs emirates on the other hand have extraordinary resources that help retain the social order in a medieval stage.

even Iran was force to give in in the modernization due to socio economical conditions.(with a Iranian unique and heretical fashion)


(by the way you are too stupid to understand social anthropology concepts, and you should attempt to receive an education instead branding your ignorance as maturity- i would have guess living up in Holland and constantly perceived as a moron and sup level human entity would have cause you to consider what's the roots of the dutch attitudes towards your backwardness)


(has it ever bothered you that the higher the education of muslims , the further the scarcity of this medieval believes are ?)


[linked image]
the eastern yunnan eraser.

 
 
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