The aftermath of Iran's June 12 presidential election -- and in particular, the violent repression of opposition protests -- has brought the Obama administration's stated goal of engaging with the Iranian regime into question. Even if President Barack Obama decides to follow through with efforts to engage Tehran, many observers anticipate that the Iranian leadership will take an even tougher approach to negotiations over its nuclear program.
The U.S. has not ruled out the possibility of military strikes to induce Iran to abandon its presumed goal of acquiring nuclear weapons, should diplomacy and sanctions fail. And a more recalcitrant Iranian regime may make military action seem more impelling. Such a course would not, however, advance American aims and would unwittingly hand Iran an important strategic victory.
Even as the Obama administration initially shifted U.S. policy from isolating the Tehran regime to seeking new lines of communication, it conspicuously retained the military option as a last resort. In spite of these threats, Iran has remained uncooperative with international inspectors, and has at times even been provocative. Its response to American overtures before the June 12 election was at best disappointing.
The most generous explanation for Iran's behavior is that its leaders have adopted a tough bargaining position in order to exact greater concessions from the international community. Presumably Iran might accept limitations on fuel enrichment activities and long-range missile development were it assured of the removal of economic sanctions, guaranteed regime security, and left free to exert regional influence.
But many in Iran's hard-line leadership may in fact have no interest in reaching an agreement that would deny the Islamic Republic the status and leverage that goes with being a nuclear-armed power. Rather than being deterred by the threat of military force, they might be willing to entertain an attack by the U.S. or Israel. These elements in the leadership may have concluded that the country has more to gain by absorbing such a pre-emptive attack, since it would take the onus off of Iran's determination to acquire a nuclear capability by making it a victim nation.
The payoffs would be numerous and the costs acceptable. Because Iran has dispersed and hardened its nuclear facilities, about which adequate intelligence is lacking, most estimates suggest an air attack could only set Iran's nuclear ambitions back three to five years. Raids on nuclear facilities are bound to result in heavy casualties, especially if the targets also include command and control structures located in urban areas.
Resulting deaths and injuries would present the Iranian government with a public relations bonanza. Indeed, Iran could expect to attract sympathy across the international community. Such a strike would also increase the Iranian populations' solidarity with the Tehran regime, at a time when the Iranian leadership is facing perhaps the greatest challenge to its authority in the 30-year history of the Islamic Republic.
Meanwhile, the Obama administration's highly touted policy of talking to adversaries would be thoroughly discredited. A military strike would inflame and embitter the Muslim world, dashing any lingering hopes of an agreement between the Palestinians and Israelis. A number of Arab leaders, anxious to see Iran's military power checked, would quietly applaud an attack. But because regimes like Jordan and Saudi Arabia are politically insecure, a groundswell of popular sympathy for Iran may instead force their leaders to overreact in their denunciation of the U.S.
For now, U.S. policymakers are focused on winning support for strengthened international economic sanctions while simultaneously trying to revive negotiations. Israel's right-wing government under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is more impatient for results and increasingly signaling a willingness to strike at Iran independently. U.S. proponents of a more robust policy point to the recently defiant policies of North Korea -- set against a background of failed past agreements -- to strengthen their case. But being drawn by Iran into the military option could in the end leave the U.S. and Israel isolated, and Iran unchallenged as a nuclear weapons state.
Neither sanctions nor incentives appear likely to deter Iran's leaders from their popularly supported determination to proceed with nuclear enrichment. Our diplomacy must therefore be directed to strengthening those in Iran not persuaded that building nuclear weapons are necessary for the country's security, and who value better relations with the U.S. and its allies. While the Iranian opposition supported Iran's production of weapons-grade fissile materials during the presidential election campaign, it expressed displeasure with President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad's handling of foreign policy and severely criticized his undiplomatic, belligerent behavior.
Some might argue that removing the military threat following the Iranian regime's brutal post-election crackdown would be perceived as a concession that conveys weakness. But the cracks in the regime revealed by the Iranian opposition suggest that the U.S. can afford to exercise strategic patience. By visibly demonstrating restraint, we can also weaken the government's attempts to link its opponents to foreign enemies.
The Obama administration should make clear that it remains as adamantly opposed to a nuclear Iran as ever, and should continue generating consensus among its negotiating partners to arrive at a package of incentives and tough sanctions designed to lead Tehran away from pursuing such an option. But to make its diplomatic overtures more convincing, and to deny those who might goad us into a disastrous policy of pre-emption, the administration should be prepared to take the threat of a military strike off the table once nuclear negotiations resume.
Marvin G. Weinbaum is a former intelligence analyst in the U.S. Dept. of State and a current Adjunct Scholar at the Middle East Institute. The opinions expressed here are solely his own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Middle East Institute, which expressly does not take positions on Middle East policy.
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.
Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States 1924-1929
Iran is trying to survive with its military propagandas. Iranian people know that they are living in a shvthole country which cant even feed its citizens but cannot express their thoughts not to die.
People want freedom which we saw lately on TVs despite the government censorship, people need someone to stop starving, people want education (not a mullah style).
Maybe it will be the best thing for iranian people if their country (regime) attacked by Israel and collaps down to build a new modern Iran.
Thats why i support an Israel Iran war without civilian death if its possible.
"Independence is My Character"
M. Kemal ATATÜRK
Yaguarete_AR (Login Yaguarete_AR) The Conquerors (Turkey)
Re: Iran and the Military Option
July 31 2009, 12:51 AM
A biased analysis by a Jew ex-CIA... Call the wolf to speak in behalf the three little piggies...
-------------------------------------------------------
"Las Malvinas fueron, son y serán Argentinas"
To the Turk, stop making up crap out of your ars... Iran in no ways is that bad, it's just that it hurts the Iranian people to see that with all these educated youths, smart people and resources, that we're in the position that we're in now.
Trust me, in 15-20 years top, Iran will be a model country, it will surpass Turkey in 5 years, lol.
--------------------------
"A drowning man is not troubled by rain" Persian Proverb
"You should not be afraid of the ideology but of the determination and will of the men behind it"
Iran is for now in a far better position than the US or Israel in middle east...
And for donkey Turcos, they haven't achieved anythin real for now. They keep begging Europe and the US for money and parade in front of everybody to show themselves... Nothing much to be proud of
Cheers,
However, political and wartime foe, British Prime Minister David Lloyd George wrote in 1919 of a meeting with "Mustapha Kemal, a man who I understand has grown tired of affairs with women and has lately taken up unnatural intercourse".
--> god know with what kind of animal :D
"Atatürk adopted seven daughters and a son."
--> Guess for what
To the Turk, stop making up crap out of your ars... Iran in no ways is that bad, it's just that it hurts the Iranian people to see that with all these educated youths, smart people and resources, that we're in the position that we're in now.
Trust me, in 15-20 years top, Iran will be a model country, it will surpass Turkey in 5 years, lol.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Before the revolution in your country, Iran was ahead of Turkiye. After the revolution your country was catapulted 50 years back into history. I am not saying this because I am Turkish, but Iran will never catch up or surpass Turkiye. Just ain't gonna happen. Your mullahs will prevent this.
I remeber the time Turkish singers such as Emersang (not sure about the spelling) would come to Iran begging for money and our media would treat them as a charity case in the Seventies.
Last time I was in Turkey in 1990 they would burn cow feces as fuel to get their houses warm in Eastern Turkey. in Istanbul they would burn coal and the whole city stank as a result.
It appears they have improved their lives thanks to Iranian gas.
A democratic Iran would aim for western living standards not Turkish standards. Turkey willl always be something we look down upon.
-------------------------------------------
This message has been edited by Persian_revenge on Aug 2, 2009 7:51 PM
Turkey had a much different face than it did 20 years ago. You should visit again. This thing you iranis have against Turks is simple jealousy. Even with the current Islamist regime, Turkiye is a much more democratic and simply FREE nation that iran would ever aspire to be. In short, Turkiye is running circles around you economically, culturally, defense sector, militarily and the list goes on. Lastly, I could give a rat's ass if you don't want to look at Turkey as your model, frankly we do not care to be your model.
All that has changed in Turkey is that you have opened up your country to be colonized by the West. You're selling your country, bankrupting your tobacco industry for instance (pride of Turkey) just to import American low quality cigarettes resulting to more people affected by lung cancer and make your engineers work in resorts for the purpose of entertaining western visitors because you cannot offer them proper jobs as engineers. Is that progress? Is that something I as an Iranian would be jealeous of? Of course not.
Go on flattering yourself. We won't sell our country even it means we have to tollerate stinky Mullahs. You're a young FAKE country. We don't really compare ourselves with a bunch of nomadic settlers in minor Asia.
Do I care about the future of Turkey? Of course not. That is why we don't even take Turkey seriously. Turkey is economically a slave of the West and politically ignorable in our region since they don't posess the experience and ambition to influence the region.
Go begging to your European masters in the hopes of letting you in their exlusive club. if that were even to happen....
In a way you will always remain wannabes either western wannabes or eastern wannabes. The truth is you are neither and should be deported to savage steppes of Central Asia.
-------------------------------------------
This message has been edited by Persian_revenge on Aug 2, 2009 8:29 PM This message has been edited by Persian_revenge on Aug 2, 2009 8:27 PM
Im not going to sit here and argue with you about the progress Turkiye has made in the last 20 years. You know and don't want to face it.
During the days of the Shah iran was the poster-boy for colonization, namely American colonization. You had an Islamic revolution and what it get you? Mullahs, ayatollahs, fashion police, Gurkhas, crane hangings, and a cleansing of all generals who mattered out of your military (remember the iran & iraq war? Is that a way to live life? Of course not. But then again, I am certain that you are part of the iranian diaspora living outside of iran.
I have met many Iranians who appreciate the help that Turks provided them as they fled the Ayatollah and his homicidal regime. These are the same people who mourn their country and admit to the fact that you are light years behind Turkey. I have also met Iranians vacationing in Turkey's warm waters who yearn for the freedoms we enjoy in Turkey. So who is looking down on whom?
I know many Turks who wished that their country weren't such a doormat. Any true Turk would lament the situation their country is in. After decades of sucking up to Europe and begging for American aids, your'r still the sick man of Europe and that even after you sold out your traditional indsutries like the tobacco industry.
Personal freedoms that we indeed had under the Shah and lost thanks to Mullah and are within our grasps any time and if we were to oust Mullahs we would have them back. We Iranians want more namely political freedom something we didn't have under the Shah and still don't have and something you Turks never had and still don't have. So, I would pipe it down if I were you.
In addition to that, we are evoloving and making our mistakes in that process. There is no shame in that.Whereas you Turks are stuck in the past with your imposed secularism. Don't get me wrong. I don't believe in any religion and I actually happen to believe in secualarism. Yet, I do believe that imposed secularism is as evil as imposed Islamism. You live under a military JUNTA and you cherish the illusion of a democracy. At least, we Iranians don't live in a bubble and that makes us evolutionary superior to you.
You just need to leave big cities like Istanbul or Izmir to realize how conservative and Islamic Turkey is in spite of decades of imposed secularism.
Current Iran is trying to oust Islamism whereas you Turks are trying to oust Secularism in favor of Islam. I don't have to tell you who is behind whom evolutionarily.
-------------------------------------------
This message has been edited by Persian_revenge on Aug 2, 2009 9:03 PM This message has been edited by Persian_revenge on Aug 2, 2009 8:58 PM
I know many Turks who wished that their country weren't such a doormat. Any true Turk would lament the situation their country is in. After decades of sucking up to Europe and begging for American aids, your'r still the sick man of Europe and that even after you sold out your traditional indsutries like the tobacco industry.
Personal freedoms that we indeed had under the Shah and lost thanks to Mullah and are within our grasps any time and if we were to oust Mullahs we would have them back. We Iranians want more namely political freedom something we didn't have under the Shah and still don't have and something you Turks never had and still don't have. So, I would pipe it down if I were you.
In addition to that, we are evoloving and making our mistakes in that process. There is no shame in that.Whereas you Turks are stuck in the past with your imposed secularism. Don't get me wrong. I don't believe in any religion and I actually happen to believe in secualarism. Yet, I do believe that imposed secularism is as evil as imposed Islamism. You live under a military JUNTA and you cherish the illusion of a democracy. At least, we Iranians don't live in a bubble and that makes us evolutionary superior to you.
You just need to leave big cities like Istanbul or Izmir to realize how conservative and Islamic Turkey is in spite of decades of imposed secularism.
Current Iran is trying to oust Islamism whereas you Turks are trying to oust Secularism in favor of Islam. I don't have to tell you who is behind whom evolutionarily.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Turkey has not "sucked up" to anyone be it european interests or american interests. Turkey has played the political game well given her position in the area and her location. Why do keep harping on the Turkish tobacco industry. Are you angry with us because you cant get a good pack of Samsun smokes? It's called progress.
You said that the freedoms you want are within reach if you can oust the mullahs but you are yet to do so. On the other hand Turkey is a functioning democracy for 80 years and continues to be the best democracy within the islamic world. We abolished the sultanate and the caliphate.
Our secularism is not imposed on us and there is no "junta" that rules our nation. Secularism is our national mantra introduced to us by Ataturk who had a vision for us and our country. People have died and shed blood for our independence and we show respect to those who have fallen so that we may enjoy the freedoms that Turkey affords us today. Please do not worry about the stage Turkey is going through currently with the islamic regime. We will grow out of it. In the grand scheme of things, this will go down in the annals of history as an experiment that failed.
I was very exited for you and your countrymen during your last elections. I thought that finally the Iranians are developing a backbone and taking on the zealots. It seems to have fizzled out.
It's going to take you a long time to get to where Turkey is currently. You are "evolving" too slowly. You need another revolution, freedom is not something you evolve into, you take it and protect it.
wasnt aware we had a tobacco industry to be honest in all likelihood it would have account for a mere 0.01% of national economy but i know we have a large electronics industry that's all over European, Russian and Middle Eastern markets
Beko, Vestel, Profilo .. to name a few
This message has been edited by drunkface on Aug 2, 2009 10:28 PM
Cizerim, if Iran surpassed Turkey from the 1940's to 1979, then seeing how Iran is pretty much the same as Turkey (In terms of modernization) today, then we'll surpass you, as I said before, again, and this time in 5 years in future ...... As you can see now, Iranians are very much fighting for a better government that can actually benefit the people by making better and smarter choices.
Just imagine Iran without the sanctions! Imagine Iran trading with America!
Iran in 30 years went from a village nation that had no railroad tracks, or even electricity, to being one of the most modernized countries in the midd-east (That was about to reach france in moderniation) in 30 years only...... Iran has alot more resources than Turkey, and resources are everything right now.
--------------------------
"A drowning man is not troubled by rain" Persian Proverb
"You should not be afraid of the ideology but of the determination and will of the men behind it"
zerim, if Iran surpassed Turkey from the 1940's to 1979, then seeing how Iran is pretty much the same as Turkey (In terms of modernization) today, then we'll surpass you, as I said before, again, and this time in 5 years in future ...... As you can see now, Iranians are very much fighting for a better government that can actually benefit the people by making better and smarter choices.
Just imagine Iran without the sanctions! Imagine Iran trading with America!
Iran in 30 years went from a village nation that had no railroad tracks, or even electricity, to being one of the most modernized countries in the midd-east (That was about to reach france in moderniation) in 30 years only...... Iran has alot more resources than Turkey, and resources are everything right now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Your resources amount to oil and gas. You have no service sector, no real estate factor, no decent industrial sector. What are you going to do when your oil and gas runs out? I await your answer little brother.
- secretives news arriveds that combats aircrafts and navals ships also beings prepareds by our ummah brothers of Islamics iran
- Iran also sendings satelliteds to space only by itself, turckos? dream on
- iran of islamics having surplus of trades and budget, turckos havings defeicit as always, and beggins IMF for billions of euros (just like parki rodents NONMUSLIMS)
- iran of islamics talenteds people without questionableds, in fields of scientifics, mathematicals, philosophicals, culturals,etc. what about turckos? they fvcking sheep or horses? coz of dumb sexularism only
- now turckos need stop drinkings raki and cocaineds smokings, and stop dozings off at work. even after 80+ years your economique not havings comparabled to spain (which havings merely 45 m persons comparings to ur 72m) and you dream of competings with europa faggetry in economique? lol
- dream on!
===========================================
I am old Christiankiller
Sorry for offensive to our good religion christian brothers
I am not hating christians
Your resources amount to oil and gas. You have no service sector, no real estate factor, no decent industrial sector. What are you going to do when your oil and gas runs out? I await your answer little brother.
you mean what is Iran going to do in 1,000 years from now? Why bother thinking that far?
Cizerem, as Arash said, why worry about 1000 years later in the future? Iran's resources aren't gonna be running out anytime soon.... And don't give me that "You just have oil" etc... resorces are resources. every country on earth uses resources to progress its economy and country.... The one's without good resources have bad luck.
Resources can give a boost to Iran's economy, kinda like how Russia did it in 15 years.... Just wait man, when the sanctions are taken off, you'll see what Iran is capable of.
--------------------------
"A drowning man is not troubled by rain" Persian Proverb
"You should not be afraid of the ideology but of the determination and will of the men behind it"
Cizerem, as Arash said, why worry about 1000 years later in the future? Iran's resources aren't gonna be running out anytime soon.... And don't give me that "You just have oil" etc... resorces are resources. every country on earth uses resources to progress its economy and country.... The one's without good resources have bad luck.
Resources can give a boost to Iran's economy, kinda like how Russia did it in 15 years.... Just wait man, when the sanctions are taken off, you'll see what Iran is capable of.
--------------------------
"A drowning man is not troubled by rain" Persian Proverb
"You should not be afraid of the ideology but of the determination and will of the men behind it"
Just wait man, when the sanctions are taken off, you'll see what Iran is capable of.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wildman, and I mean that in the most endearing way (you remind me of my little brother). Do you think that we Turks want an unstable Iran next to us???? Any Turk with half a brain would say that we want the best for our neighbors especially Iran who has so much potential. I know you believe in your country but go do something about it. Peacefully. Take care.
I agree. Only insane people would wish their neighbouring countries to be in chaos. In the long term no nation can be an island of stability because the chaotic state in the neighbouring countries will influence the own nation. this is why the european union was created at the first place: to promote continent-wide peace and stability and thus enduring development.
as an iranian i am glad that turkey is developping at a fast rate and that it has a functioning democratization process and that turkey is developping industrially and economically at a fast pace. iranians from iran visit your tourist resorts and witness what freedom can lead to and come home wishing the same for iran.
i think, no iranian denies that in many fiels turkey has surpassed us, especially considering that turkey has no oil and gas. (although i believe iran´s oil and gas is a curse for us)
but many of my compatriots got angry over the fact that a turkish forumer supported an israeli attack on iran in order to get rid of the regime although we iranians are capable of throwing away this regime by ourselves. and we have one experience for 30 years now NO other middle eastern nation has and only a limited number of even european nation has: we are going through an age and phase of enlightenment because of thiy tyrannical theocratic regime and our educated elite (which is huge), our philosophers and even clerics do publish and dicuss various ideologies and democracies in its most productive and honest form (not just copying and learning european works but judging on indegenous developments).
and this is what in the long term will give iran a bright and stable future. i am convinced that the western european nations will remain in their strong and inluential power for the longest time while i think that the united states may fall one day just like the ussr: why do i have such an opinion?
certain western european nations went through the rennaissance and the enlightenment while the united states didn´t experience such an ideological-historical process.
at the end of the day i wish that people in the middle east become as smart as europeans and realize that they should appreciate the wealth and development of neighbouring countries for their OWN sake because it contributes to stability and growth in the OWN country.
---------------------------------------------
brother abdullah for iranian group leader.
This message has been edited by Mash-Qasem on Aug 4, 2009 11:33 PM
I never said you wanted a unstable Iran.... I'm just telling you how countries with a emmense and valuable resource supply can progress alot quicker than countries without it.
Though the oil in Iran will not last forever, it will give Iran the push start to huge economic growth and in a short time too.
--------------------------
"A drowning man is not troubled by rain" Persian Proverb
"You should not be afraid of the ideology but of the determination and will of the men behind it"
You see we Iranians have no illusions over our regime but you people seem to turn a blind eye to facts:
The government does not respect human rights, particularly in the southeast Kurdish areas. There, law enforcement officials are routinely implicated in extrajudicial killings, torture and beatings. According to the State Departments 2003 Human Rights Report, "security forces reportedly killed 43 persons during the year; torture, beatings, and other abuses by security forces remained widespread Security forces continued to use arbitrary arrest and detention The rarity of convictions and the light sentences imposed on police and other security officials for killings and torture continued to foster a climate of impunity."[
Turkey has not "sucked up" to anyone be it european interests or american interests.
Turkey is dependent on Americans:
Turkey is the third largest recipient of U.S. military aid, behind Israel and Egypt. Between 1994 and 2004, it received well over $1.3 billion in FMF and another $21.4 million in IMET.[224] Congress granted another $33 million in FMF and $4 million in IMET in 2005. The Presidents request for 2006 is more modest-- $25 million in FMF and $3 million in IMET.
I honestly wonder how independent a county could be politically if it receives so much from another country?
Why do keep harping on the Turkish tobacco industry. Are you angry with us because you cant get a good pack of Samsun smokes? It's called progress.
You either missed my point by a mile or like most Turks buy into your state propaganda. Tobacco to Turkey is like Saffron to Iran. It is (or it was) a source of income for the country and many people were employed by that industry. Furthermore, it was a source of pride for Turks, something other nations would associate Turks with. Ever heard of expression like smoking like a Turk? Now, there is a difference between dismantling that industry for the sake of your peoples health and replacing it by imported American cigarettes that are full of tar. This will in the long run lead to exponentially higher number of cancer patients (since American cigarettes are more harmful and contain more tar)
On the other hand Turkey is a functioning democracy for 80 years and continues to be the best democracy within the islamic world. We abolished the sultanate and the caliphate.
Again wrong. As I stated earlier, Turks live in a bubble. There is a big difference between you like to believe and reality:
In 2002, Turkey sought membership in the European Union (EU), but was turned down for a number of reasons, primarily its poor human rights record. Before Turkey can join the EU, it must comply with the Copenhagen criteria, including "democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and, protection of minorities."[222] Turkey has not been able to fulfill the criteria in the past, and does not seem to have made much headway recently.
Secularism is our national mantra introduced to us by Ataturk who had a vision for us and our country.
Well, again.. that is very arguable. You tend to spew a lot of Ataturk propaganda. What Ataturk did was even more profound and deracinating that what Reza Shah in Iran did. As a result, you cannot even go to a library and read old books now.
I fail to see how changing the alphabet could contribute to modernism. Ataturk was a dictator. We managed to oust ours. We may have replaced our secularist dictator with a religious one but we are learning as we go. Whereas, you are stuck in what is to us very passé. You are yet to make your mistakes and evolve to that stage.
People have died and shed blood for our independence
Please elaborate.
We will grow out of it.
Well, I certainly hope that you do. As one of my countrymen here stated, an unstable Turkey is not good for Iran. I rather wish bad things to enemies than to a neighbouring country we have no problem with. However, you people need to open your eyes because by repeating your state propaganda you wont impress Iranians here. We see propaganda coming from miles thanks to our Mullahs and certainly look beyond Turkey when looking for examples.
I was very exited for you and your countrymen during your last elections. I thought that finally the Iranians are developing a backbone and taking on the zealots.
Well, again you need to learn to pipe it down. You people talk the talk, we walk the walk. When was the last time you people came on the streets and asked for real democracy and respect for human rights?
Turks unfortunately have done nothing in the past 80 years. A static society still worshipping their Stalinist type of leader.
We brought down a regime that had one of the strongest armies in the world and when the time is ripe we will do it again with this regime. I suggest you concentrate on your own sorry state of human rights and suppression of minorities and your notorious prisons and torture methods before you pretend you have democracy.
It's going to take you a long time to get to where Turkey is currently. You are "evolving" too slowly.
I think I already proved above that youre the ones to catch up with us. Just because the U.S. is turning a blind eye on your violations of human rights and your Junta style regime, it doesnt mean you should pretend youre something youre not. We as your neighbour know you well enough to laugh when you spew your state propaganda.
You need another revolution, freedom is not something you evolve into, you take it and protect it.
Funny coming from a people that dont even have the backbone to face their own demons.
-------------------------------------------
This message has been edited by Persian_revenge on Aug 6, 2009 12:43 AM This message has been edited by Persian_revenge on Aug 5, 2009 11:25 PM
Turks are only Muslim country I have respect for. The way they industrialise their nation considering they had little resource and constant quarrel and cold war with greece deserve respect.
You can just compared Turkish military industry which is one of top 5 in Europe (comparing Turks with European) and Iranian military "industry" to see the difference between the 2 nation.
I'm sorry, right now I am not in the mood for an answer that that took you 3 days to come up with. Then, you still had to edit it twice.
I reserve the right to edit my posts for spelling errors. Furthermore, I am a busy man and don't check WAFF every day and checked it last night and answered you.
I take your lame answer as an acknowledgement of defeat.
Prime evil, lift the sanctions and open bussines with Iran and you'll see how fast this country progresses.
That is whole point though.
The sanctions wouldn't lift until your country gotten rid of the mullahs. And, so far, seemed like good % of your Iranian is still supporting this mullahs in power for the time being.
Your country wouldn't progress much with these losers in charge (even in no sanction environment, look at Saudi Arabia as example) and you know it yourself - you don't need us to tell you.
Stop being a jerk Prima Evols..you are against human rights when you denying
other people rights..
sanctioning is only a move which show how coward and afraid you are...
where is the justice in that?
And how come israel dont get one when they have more nukes?scared to do
something about it?
Pussy..
Iran deserve the access to nuclear power..it has become a needs.
its thier people rights in the name of modernization..You feel afraid and
insecure if iran have a nuclear missile? and what other nation feels when
your country have one?
Country with a nuclear power mean a country with a responsibilites...
To balance the imbalanced...Israel have more than one nuke but no one
cares or do something about it..
dont speak of development when your are closing the doors to it...
The sanctions wouldn't lift until your country gotten rid of the mullahs. And, so far, seemed like good % of your Iranian is still supporting this mullahs in power for the time being.
A very naive way of reasoning, I dare say.
Your statement in fact showed how little you know about Iran. Iran is not to be pushed around. Mullahs have proved in the last 30 years that Iran won't bow to the language of force. Sanctions won't have any effect on Iran. Mullahs don't care about people. Furthermore, you need to be joking if you think you can force democracy down a people's throat. If Iran is pushed too far, the regime will bring bombing to your doorsteps.
It is the other way around. The rest of the world just needs to be patient and await the time Iranian people somehow topple this regime. We're not some banana republic to bow to lame sanctions.
You know prime, most people first learn about the situation then talk about it.... You have no knowledge on the situation in Iran, so you're just barking. Your barking doesn't deserve an answer!
--------------------------
"A drowning man is not troubled by rain" Persian Proverb
"You should not be afraid of the ideology but of the determination and will of the men behind it"
Cizerim, if Iran surpassed Turkey from the 1940's to 1979, then seeing how Iran is pretty much the same as Turkey (In terms of modernization) today, then we'll surpass you, as I said before, again, and this time in 5 years in future ...... As you can see now, Iranians are very much fighting for a better government that can actually benefit the people by making better and smarter choices.
Just imagine Iran without the sanctions! Imagine Iran trading with America!
Iran in 30 years went from a village nation that had no railroad tracks, or even electricity, to being one of the most modernized countries in the midd-east (That was about to reach france in moderniation) in 30 years only...... Iran has alot more resources than Turkey, and resources are everything right now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Fightclub, little brother, the only reason that Iran surpassed Turkey during the times you mentioned is because of your vast oil and gas deposits. Turkey has no such resources yet they are a regional and to a certain degree, a global player. Imagine what Turkey would accomplish if we had your energy deposits. I want Iran to be a free nation. Free from the influences of the mullahs and back ward thinking zealots. Iran has contributed so much to human civilization in the past and they can contribute again.
I am sorry to say that you will not surpass Turkey with your current regime. I am not advocating that we lose our religion, but you cannot continue on a path that is destructive rather than constructive. Take care.
![[linked image]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e255/MikePappa1/us-gonz.gif)
![[linked image]](http://www.network54.com/Realm/Zapatista/untitled1new.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7416/firmazm2fw1.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7388/25malvinas.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7613/heroest.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/cyrus121/index_logo.jpg){kind=logo}
![[linked image]](http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/cyrus121/defaultCAQMNWX5.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1248994208.JPG)
![[linked image]](http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1248994748.PNG)
![[linked image]](http://www.network54.com/Realm/SmilesWAFF/smilies1119.gif)
![[linked image]](http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/oren/Ottoman%20Empire,%20peak.gif)
