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"The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 20 2007 at 6:25 PM

DIGENIS AKRITAS  (Login Fantaros)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Vladimir Putin rearms his Cold War military
By Gethin Chamberlain, Tim Shipman and Nick Holdsworth in Moscow, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 4:01am BST 20/08/2007



In a hangar at an airfield 24 miles south east of Moscow, technicians were yesterday checking over the latest additions to the burgeoning military arsenal which a resurgent Russia hopes can restore its status as a major world power.

The MiG-35 and MiG-29 fighters which Russia plans to showcase at this week's -Moscow international air show are just a small part of a £100 billion plan to return the Russian military to the heights of its Cold War might.


Russia's planned military might - click to enlarge

On Friday President Vladimir Putin caused consternation by announcing the resumption of regular, long-range nuclear bomber patrols, but there is more to come; Russia is planning to double combat aircraft production by 2025 with more nuclear missiles, aircraft carriers and tanks at the top of Moscow's shopping list.

The message to the West is clear: the days of being able to dismiss Russia as a spent force are over. Bolstered by the cash from sales of oil and gas and President Putin's steely determination to re-establish the country on the world stage, the Russian -military machine is back in business.

Various theories have been put forward for the dramatic military expansion, not least the need to appeal to nationalists in the run-up to forthcoming parliamentary and presidential elections. The real reason, however, appears to be that Russia has taken offence at what it regards as the West's insulting indifference to its very existence.

Intelligence sources say Washington and London have been taken aback by just how seriously Russia has viewed the perceived slight and admit that in concentrating so heavily on Iraq and al-Qaeda, they took their eyes off the ball.

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"They were slow to see that these people are still players," said a former White House staffer, who served both Ronald Reagan and George Bush. "My great fear is that I wake up one day soon to discover that we lost the Cold War, or rather that like everything else, we won the war and then lost the peace."

A source close to the US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, who cut her teeth in government as a Kremlinologist in the Eighties, said that Middle East issues had diverted her attention from a more rigorous engagement with Moscow.

"She wants to spend more time on Russia but that hasn't always been possible. She said to me that she regrets the fact that she has not done enough on what is, after all, her major area of expertise."

The carefully-staged pictures of the president stripped to the waist and striking various manly poses on holiday in Siberia last week are not the only Russian muscle-flexing that has been going on in recent months.

While Russia's submariners have managed to upset even the mild-mannered Norwegians and Canadians by planting a flag under the Arctic ice, its long range TU-95 Bear bombers have rattled America's cage by buzzing its US naval base on the island of Guam in the western Pacific. The Georgians are furious after a Russian missile landed on the outskirts of a village near Tbilisi and a series of war games in Russia's southern Ural Mountains featuring some 6,500 troops from Russia, China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan sparked Western concern over the emergence of a new Warsaw Pact.

The alarm may have sounded too late, however, according to Matthew Clements, Eurasia editor of Jane's Country Risk. "I think what has not been seen is the way Russia perceives itself as a new, great power, and how it feels it has not been taken as seriously as it should be," he said.


President Vladimir Putin observes naval exercises near Severomorsk

The latest developments have exacerbated an already tense situation. Russia has responded angrily to US plans to station an anti-missile system in the Czech republic and Poland by threatening to site its own missiles in Kaliningrad to counter the threat. Earlier this summer Mr Putin upped the ante by threatening to target US strategic nuclear sites in Europe. Tensions with Britain over the murder of former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko have prompted tit-for-tat expulsions of diplomats, while on Friday the BBC's World Service was thrown off Russian FM radio.

The Foreign Office last week refused to be drawn on its attitude towards Russia's newly-assertive attitude, other than to observe that "we are not alarmed".

But perhaps the only positive that Britain can draw from Russia's military resurgence is that its new Typhoon fighter aircraft, purchased at about £20 billion to counter a Cold War threat, might finally have found a worthy adversary.

Eight years ago, when -President Putin first came to power, the Russian military was in meltdown. The Russian army was crippled by low morale, the navy was rusting away and the air force was at half its Cold War strength.

But no longer. Russian defence spending rose by 22 per cent and 27 per cent in the past two years and could be up as much as 30 per cent this year. In February, Sergei Ivanov, then defence secretary and now one of the front-runners to replace Mr Putin next year, announced a £100 billion programme of expenditure. According to Jane's Sentinel Country Risk Assessments, the Russian shopping list includes two new submarine-launched nuclear ballistic missiles, the Bulava and the Sineva, both with a 5,000 mile range and capable of carrying 10 nuclear warheads, and a new anti-aircraft missile, the S-400, which the Russian ministry of defence claims is effective against incoming missiles.

It also plans to spend heavily on the new TU-160 strategic bomber, which can launch cruise missiles, the SU-34 "Fullback" fighter-bomber capable of all-weather attacks on heavily defended targets and a new fifth-generation fighter, the Sukhoi T-50, which is expected to come into service in 2008 as Russia's main lightweight front-line fighter. The expanded Russian fleet will include six new nuclear powered aircraft carriers, it has just one at present, and eight ballistic missile submarines. Alex Pravda, a Russia expert at London's Chatham House foreign policy think tank, said the new aggressive approach was typical Putin.

"He believes in fighting for your place in the sun and has said that nobody appreciates weakness. They are not looking for the imperial reach of the Soviet era. What they want is an international presence."

But with Mr Putin unable to stand for a third term, his former defence secretary Sergei Ivanov is well-placed to benefit from domestic approval of the tough new stance when Russians go to the polls next March.

Whoever succeeds Mr Putin, the West is likely to have to accept that the balance of power has changed. As Mr Putin said when he announced the resumption of strategic bomber patrols: "Combat duty has begun."



    
This message has been edited by Fantaros on Aug 20, 2007 6:27 PM


 
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AuthorReply

adonis
(Login adoni)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 20 2007, 8:57 PM 

Great article finally showing that Putin and Russia mean business, it's not showmanship or arrogance it's the realisation what a Nation can do when faced by turmoil, poverty and loads of OIL!!!! lol

"if Christiannity and Turkish occupation hadn't stopped the Greek civilization from its advanced progress in mathematics , chemistry and physics the Greeks could have been to space 600 years before the Americans"
(Arthur C. Clarke)



 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login politicalgain)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 21 2007, 3:28 AM 

More Gas than Oil. We can all get our Oil from elsewhere, your oil extracting technology is nowhere near Western Standards yet, infact its aged and rusting mainly.

 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login Fantaros)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 21 2007, 3:11 PM 




You can do that, sure, but there are no shortage of customers. So go right ahead. The Russians really don't care.



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/



 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login irkut)
The Red Army (Russia)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 21 2007, 4:03 PM 

"More Gas than Oil. We can all get our Oil from elsewhere, your oil extracting technology is nowhere near Western Standards yet, infact its aged and rusting mainly."

BS. Russia is a major export of oil and gas services in the mid east. We just started building one of the worlds largest refineries in Syria. Russia technology in this sphere is top of the line.

 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login Fantaros)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 21 2007, 4:47 PM 




Irkut, most of these morons are stuck with the mid 90's mentality that everything Russian is "rusting", you know, the typical CNN-induced retort forced into the minds of cattle like him.



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/



 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login Soviet635)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 21 2007, 5:34 PM 

Quote:

More Gas than Oil. We can all get our Oil from elsewhere, your oil extracting technology is nowhere near Western Standards yet, infact its aged and rusting mainly.


Typical Western idiotic response. It may be hard for a moron to believe, but not everything sits in Russia aging and rusting away.

And if you're gonna say Russia's oil extracting tech is "nowhere near Western standards" please prove it. I won't pretend to say I know otherwise, I don't know anything about Russian oil extraction tech, but if you're gonna make such a statement, prove it or you just look stupid.

 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login beryoza)
Moderators

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 21 2007, 5:57 PM 

Russian technology lags behind western technology and this is a fact.This is
why Russia cooperate with countries like France and Germany,to improve their
technology level.

In any case Russia has nothing common to Russia back in 1998 with a pathetic
12 billion $ in reserves.

-------------
"I have Authoritah???!!!That should be fine,just fine!!!"
-------------

 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login 5thGuards)
WAFFer

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 21 2007, 6:41 PM 


"Russian technology lags behind western technology and this is a fact.This is
why Russia cooperate with countries like France and Germany,to improve their
technology level."

Really?

Strainge , care to explain what western systems are better than Russian in following factors:

Anti Air systems
Anti Ship missiles
Torpedo's
Ballistic missiles
MLRS systems
Tank protection
Stealth on Tanks ( at least a little , new Russian tanks use coating to make them harder to see on radar , the new T-95 is said to be stealth )
Anti Air missiles ( only US rivals that with AIM-120 and Sidewinder )
Submarine armor
Aircraft manevrability
Space tehnology( except USA )
Satellites
..
..
..

 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login Veles25)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 12:08 AM 

5thGuard!
this i mass disagree.
Russian technology doues lag behind Western by almost
10 years.Some astimate that Russian Military technology is eavn more than 10 years behind.
----------------------------------------
Europe spends almot 50 times more on research and development.
----------------------------------------
Russians doo large spy operations to get ther hands
on European technology.
Germany and Austria allone haw cought 12 Spys trying to
get information on Highttech.
Subs,Tropedos,Satelits,Antimatter,BioEnergy,Tanks,Planes

-----------------------------------------
Russias has equipment build whit the same
principels like in the 70-80s.
Europe has huge technological progarmas,and made incredible progres in some things,wich Russia wont be able to cach up.eavn in the next 25 years.
Whit the Lisabon treaty awry countrie in EU
spends 2,5-3% on R&D.And Europe will lead the
world in the Furture in technoligy.This is a Goal of EU.European scientits are one of the finest.
--------------------------------------------
And also Europe is spending huge amounts of
money on Bio Energy and renewable energy.
Soon Europe wont need any more gas to import from Russia and Middel East.European scientific comunity expect that this will happen in 2025.

If Russia has not rewiwed by then,it will becomme much more difficult.
This is not to say Russia is not technologicaly advanced.But Europe just has much much more reasurces and money.And its also Eu,s goal.


    
This message has been edited by Veles25 on Aug 22, 2007 12:14 AM


 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login 5thGuards)
WAFFer

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 1:05 AM 

Veles if we are talking about military tehnology Russia is advanced in the areas that I have wrote.
Now of course Europe has some advanced things and I know about them , but not too much , most advanced things Europe has is from US.
This is of course if we are talking purely military tehnology.

 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login Veles25)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 1:12 AM 

Yes you are right,
but Russia is not superior techonligicaly.
Miltary i dony realy know,but i think in some areas
Europeans are bether and in some russians.

Oh.
Europe doesnt have awryhting form USA.
Europe builds prety much all of its Ships,Subs,Planes,Nukes,Rockets,Carriers.....

In fackt Usa imports european stuff as much as europe
form USA.If not more.
And in some things ,Euopre is eavn bether than USA.

 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login 5thGuards)
WAFFer

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 4:14 AM 

Yes you are right,
but Russia is not superior techonligicaly.
Miltary i dony realy know,but i think in some areas
Europeans are bether and in some russians.

Oh.
Europe doesnt have awryhting form USA.
Europe builds prety much all of its Ships,Subs,Planes,Nukes,Rockets,Carriers.....

In fackt Usa imports european stuff as much as europe
form USA.If not more.
And in some things ,Euopre is eavn bether than USA.



1.Carriers ? Yes Europeans make them alone , is any superior to US carriers? No.
2.Subs ? Yes they make subs alone , is any superior? No. ( The new Astute is very good though , example of how European tehnology is fine and I agree that it is. )
3.Planes ? Yes they do , is any superior to Raptor? No.
Do they have strategic bombers? No.
4.Nukes ? Well most don't have , and most have Us Trident II on subs. But yeah they made some of their own.
5.Ships? Well yes they make their own , most is not close to US tehnology , the new Type 45 British destroyer is a pinacle of European tehnology at its best though.
6. Rockets/Missiles? Your wrong here , most missiles are US designed , look at the anti ship missiles , most europe navy's use Harpoon anti ship missiles , look at the A-A missiles , what A-A missiles do europe's fighters use? AIM-120 .. most missiles are US. So they are not as advanced here too.



Now let me point out a few things , Europe is very advanced in military tehnology.
They have some stuff that is more advanced than any other country in the world has.
I agree , I also like Europe tehnology , im European.
But I also know that most of the advanced military tehnology is in possesion of US and Russia.


Cheers.

 
 

justin
(Login subroc12)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 5:03 AM 

I would say overall the U.S. is more technologically ambitious than Europe when it comes to defense programs, while the PAAMS / Sylver-Aster combo is great, the USN ushered in the same basic capability in 1986 with USS Bunker Hill. However, with the end of the cold war the diffrences eroded to a degree. None the less, the US still has by far and wide the worlds largest and most advanced Military-industrial complex.


 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login Aietus)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 11:11 AM 

All russia has to do is turn off the petroleum tap off for a month
& we will see how those of you that bitch about the efficiency of russian oil companys ,will enjoy paying 2.50 euro per litre of petrol.
better still,wait till washington bombs iran & see how much more sweet russian oil is,


 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login Veles25)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 12:01 PM 

By 2025 Europe and USa wont need Russian oil.
Awrything will be bioenergy and renuwable energy.
That can hurt Russia you know.
-----------------------------------------------
Now lets see about Weapons.

Europe produces best small arms.All US solders and UN
uses H&K,SIG,SAURER and so on.
US tank Abrams was design by Germans,and uses the Rheinmettal L44GUN and MTU engen.
IRIS-t rocket.
MLARS is design jointly by Germany USA Britain.
U212a is the most stealthiest Sub in the world.
HERMES will be a EUropean GPS.
some of the Most advanced SPy satelites like SAARLUPE.
European Tanks and Vehicels are awsome.
Go check Rheinmettal,Kraus Meifei Wegmann,GIAT,

DM2A4 Torpedo is a ass kicker!
IDAS (missile)will be the best short range missle in the
world once it enters in serives in 2009.
Carl Zeiss Optics are best in the world.
Taurus missile is awsome.
RIM-116 RAM launcher is awsome
HOPE-state of the art
PARS 3 LR-finest in the world
HOSBO
Storm
Exocet
All those European items are state of the ART.
Germany,France and UK build now Awosme stuff.
Just look at the Diehl BGT Defence.It produces finest
missiles now.
The Sachsen klass frigates are some of the best in the
wrold.Else USA wouldew not expresed such a interest in
them.
The british Destryers and upcomming Carriers will be
also awsome.And Brits will build them by them selfs.
EU produces some of the finest warplanes.Typhon is
second best after F22raptor.
Europe is leading in Directed-energy weapons
The fact is that Russia is way behind EU in some stuff.
But altough Russia can produce good stuff,it douesnt have the money to put awrything Brandnew like EU.


We are already macking many things USA is making.
Europe is no longer in Cold War.European Goal is to
produce all its war items by its self.



ANd if EU desires it can easyly match USA in military.
All Eu needs to doo is to raise its budget to 5,5%.

But i agree that USA produces bether Airplanes and Aircraft Carriers.

Go read some about the upcomming European military equipment.YOu will be absolutly amased.
Trust me.Europe has leaped extremly forward in the
last 5 years.






    
This message has been edited by Veles25 on Aug 22, 2007 12:05 PM


 
 

5thGuards
(Login 5thGuards)
WAFFer

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 12:49 PM 

Never said Europe does not produce great tehnology , I already said they do , and im very amazed with the developments we did till now.
Btw you forgot new Barracuda
Anyway yes I agree that Europe has great tehnology however I still see US and Russia producing more tehnological advanced stuff , now don't get me wrong , it aint that big of a difference but still.
For example look at these things:

US- ( Space tehnology amazing , Supercarriers far bigger then Europe's , Cruisers ( Europe has none ) , Anti Air missiles like patriot, Ground - Air missiles , Anti ship missiles , Aircraft are amazing , stealth strategic bombers and normal strategic bombers , stealth fighters , stealth tehnology , unmanned tehnology , Aegis defence system on ships , anti air missiles like Sidewinder and AIM-120 , Helicopters , AH64D is amazing , ICBM tehnology is better , new projects aswell , allthough the F-35 is US/UK development but others etc... )
These are tehnology's that US has a advantage , there are many.

Europe- ( Great ground tehnology , better than US thats for sure! just look at Tanks Leo 2, abrams would not be good without the German gun , then small arms as you said , Artillery ( Phz 2000 is very good ) , Type212 is very good indeed , British has some nice projects as CVN , Type 45 , Astute. ) Im very amazed in our tehnology yet I still see its not as much as It could be.

Russia- ( Simply amazing ground tehnology is the best , Anti air systems S-400 S-300 , MLRS Smerch ,Anti Stealth Tehnology, Iskander is amazing , the new T-95 Tank is said to be stealth and even more protected than T-90. And then at aircraft tehnology they are developing stealth tehnology PAK-FA , strategic bombers , Mi-28 and Ka-50 helicopters are amazing and no europe helicopter can compare. Anti Air missiles like R-37 and R-77 amazing , Anti ship missiles , torpedo's , new projects like the new Frigate ( Destroyer ) and new Corvette ( Frigate ) , Cruisers , new SSBN and new SSN Severodinsk ( said by us experts to be the best submarine when it comes to service , Space tehnology), ICBM .



 
 
Phoebus
(Login me31fm)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 3:28 PM 

Quote:
your oil extracting technology is nowhere near Western Standards yet, infact its aged and rusting mainly


Oh please do elaborate on that, give us all your specs and facts about this technology gap. We'll be waiting, rest assured.




"...Goerge Stephanou set an example of manner and ethos.
Never forget about this man and his daily message of peace...."

 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login Veles25)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 9:59 PM 

The German-Dutch system is equal or bether than AGEIS.
Also Europe doesnt need Crusers.
Thats why we build such a large Fregates.
For example the upcomming German Freegates of 6800tons(nearly 8000tons in USA standards) is equal to Light Crusers in awrything.
But we call it a Freegate for political reasons.

Same thing whit the upcoming british destroyers and Carriers.Bigger USa carrier dosent nesseary means that
it is bether.
Europe builds best Fregates,Corvetes and destryers.
I can garantee you.
ANd replacement for Baracuda will be much much bether
than the original.
europe uses awryhing Brand new! Where USA still uses
some equipment wich is 50 years old.

But yes you are right.Usa doues have higher Space technology.But it spends in NASA 2x as much as Europeans
on ESA.Europeans can match and excead USA in awryhting
if we put the time and money in it.
Also Usa goues and Handpicks European scientists.It did
it in the past,and still doues now.
European Scientits are the extremly vailuble in USA.
I know it!I study Organic Chemistry in USA now.
--------------------------------------
I,m not saying Russia dosent prodouce good stuff.
But Russians exagerate it.Thats why Russians are so
secrative.
What i,m traying to say is that Europe has made a massive progres in Weapon technology.
Wenn i see the upcomming European stuff,i get amased.
Í see Europe becomming the Top hightech producer in the
World.It already is, in many things.

Cheers



    
This message has been edited by Veles25 on Aug 22, 2007 10:05 PM


 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login Areianos)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 10:37 PM 

the issue here is russia has been accumulating vasts amount of gold since 2001 that german & british and american central banks have been selling.

this is not in conjunction with the untapped gold reserves russia has in its own back yard.

lets not forgt gold has gone from $250 to $700 in only five years.

so the russians are building an economic war chest







Re Bin Laden ti na kanw
Pou den kserw na petw aeroplano
Mes thn Ankyra na to riskw
Tourkous kai memetia na gamisw

 
 
 
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