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"The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 20 2007 at 6:25 PM

DIGENIS AKRITAS  (Login Fantaros)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Vladimir Putin rearms his Cold War military
By Gethin Chamberlain, Tim Shipman and Nick Holdsworth in Moscow, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 4:01am BST 20/08/2007



In a hangar at an airfield 24 miles south east of Moscow, technicians were yesterday checking over the latest additions to the burgeoning military arsenal which a resurgent Russia hopes can restore its status as a major world power.

The MiG-35 and MiG-29 fighters which Russia plans to showcase at this week's -Moscow international air show are just a small part of a £100 billion plan to return the Russian military to the heights of its Cold War might.


Russia's planned military might - click to enlarge

On Friday President Vladimir Putin caused consternation by announcing the resumption of regular, long-range nuclear bomber patrols, but there is more to come; Russia is planning to double combat aircraft production by 2025 with more nuclear missiles, aircraft carriers and tanks at the top of Moscow's shopping list.

The message to the West is clear: the days of being able to dismiss Russia as a spent force are over. Bolstered by the cash from sales of oil and gas and President Putin's steely determination to re-establish the country on the world stage, the Russian -military machine is back in business.

Various theories have been put forward for the dramatic military expansion, not least the need to appeal to nationalists in the run-up to forthcoming parliamentary and presidential elections. The real reason, however, appears to be that Russia has taken offence at what it regards as the West's insulting indifference to its very existence.

Intelligence sources say Washington and London have been taken aback by just how seriously Russia has viewed the perceived slight and admit that in concentrating so heavily on Iraq and al-Qaeda, they took their eyes off the ball.

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"They were slow to see that these people are still players," said a former White House staffer, who served both Ronald Reagan and George Bush. "My great fear is that I wake up one day soon to discover that we lost the Cold War, or rather that like everything else, we won the war and then lost the peace."

A source close to the US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, who cut her teeth in government as a Kremlinologist in the Eighties, said that Middle East issues had diverted her attention from a more rigorous engagement with Moscow.

"She wants to spend more time on Russia but that hasn't always been possible. She said to me that she regrets the fact that she has not done enough on what is, after all, her major area of expertise."

The carefully-staged pictures of the president stripped to the waist and striking various manly poses on holiday in Siberia last week are not the only Russian muscle-flexing that has been going on in recent months.

While Russia's submariners have managed to upset even the mild-mannered Norwegians and Canadians by planting a flag under the Arctic ice, its long range TU-95 Bear bombers have rattled America's cage by buzzing its US naval base on the island of Guam in the western Pacific. The Georgians are furious after a Russian missile landed on the outskirts of a village near Tbilisi and a series of war games in Russia's southern Ural Mountains featuring some 6,500 troops from Russia, China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan sparked Western concern over the emergence of a new Warsaw Pact.

The alarm may have sounded too late, however, according to Matthew Clements, Eurasia editor of Jane's Country Risk. "I think what has not been seen is the way Russia perceives itself as a new, great power, and how it feels it has not been taken as seriously as it should be," he said.


President Vladimir Putin observes naval exercises near Severomorsk

The latest developments have exacerbated an already tense situation. Russia has responded angrily to US plans to station an anti-missile system in the Czech republic and Poland by threatening to site its own missiles in Kaliningrad to counter the threat. Earlier this summer Mr Putin upped the ante by threatening to target US strategic nuclear sites in Europe. Tensions with Britain over the murder of former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko have prompted tit-for-tat expulsions of diplomats, while on Friday the BBC's World Service was thrown off Russian FM radio.

The Foreign Office last week refused to be drawn on its attitude towards Russia's newly-assertive attitude, other than to observe that "we are not alarmed".

But perhaps the only positive that Britain can draw from Russia's military resurgence is that its new Typhoon fighter aircraft, purchased at about £20 billion to counter a Cold War threat, might finally have found a worthy adversary.

Eight years ago, when -President Putin first came to power, the Russian military was in meltdown. The Russian army was crippled by low morale, the navy was rusting away and the air force was at half its Cold War strength.

But no longer. Russian defence spending rose by 22 per cent and 27 per cent in the past two years and could be up as much as 30 per cent this year. In February, Sergei Ivanov, then defence secretary and now one of the front-runners to replace Mr Putin next year, announced a £100 billion programme of expenditure. According to Jane's Sentinel Country Risk Assessments, the Russian shopping list includes two new submarine-launched nuclear ballistic missiles, the Bulava and the Sineva, both with a 5,000 mile range and capable of carrying 10 nuclear warheads, and a new anti-aircraft missile, the S-400, which the Russian ministry of defence claims is effective against incoming missiles.

It also plans to spend heavily on the new TU-160 strategic bomber, which can launch cruise missiles, the SU-34 "Fullback" fighter-bomber capable of all-weather attacks on heavily defended targets and a new fifth-generation fighter, the Sukhoi T-50, which is expected to come into service in 2008 as Russia's main lightweight front-line fighter. The expanded Russian fleet will include six new nuclear powered aircraft carriers, it has just one at present, and eight ballistic missile submarines. Alex Pravda, a Russia expert at London's Chatham House foreign policy think tank, said the new aggressive approach was typical Putin.

"He believes in fighting for your place in the sun and has said that nobody appreciates weakness. They are not looking for the imperial reach of the Soviet era. What they want is an international presence."

But with Mr Putin unable to stand for a third term, his former defence secretary Sergei Ivanov is well-placed to benefit from domestic approval of the tough new stance when Russians go to the polls next March.

Whoever succeeds Mr Putin, the West is likely to have to accept that the balance of power has changed. As Mr Putin said when he announced the resumption of strategic bomber patrols: "Combat duty has begun."



    
This message has been edited by Fantaros on Aug 20, 2007 6:27 PM
This message has been edited by Fantaros on Aug 20, 2007 6:26 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply

adonis
(Login adoni)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 20 2007, 8:57 PM 

Great article finally showing that Putin and Russia mean business, it's not showmanship or arrogance it's the realisation what a Nation can do when faced by turmoil, poverty and loads of OIL!!!! lol

"if Christiannity and Turkish occupation hadn't stopped the Greek civilization from its advanced progress in mathematics , chemistry and physics the Greeks could have been to space 600 years before the Americans"
(Arthur C. Clarke)



 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login politicalgain)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 21 2007, 3:28 AM 

More Gas than Oil. We can all get our Oil from elsewhere, your oil extracting technology is nowhere near Western Standards yet, infact its aged and rusting mainly.

 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login Fantaros)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 21 2007, 3:11 PM 




You can do that, sure, but there are no shortage of customers. So go right ahead. The Russians really don't care.



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/



 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login irkut)
The Red Army (Russia)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 21 2007, 4:03 PM 

"More Gas than Oil. We can all get our Oil from elsewhere, your oil extracting technology is nowhere near Western Standards yet, infact its aged and rusting mainly."

BS. Russia is a major export of oil and gas services in the mid east. We just started building one of the worlds largest refineries in Syria. Russia technology in this sphere is top of the line.

 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login Fantaros)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 21 2007, 4:47 PM 




Irkut, most of these morons are stuck with the mid 90's mentality that everything Russian is "rusting", you know, the typical CNN-induced retort forced into the minds of cattle like him.



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/



 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login Soviet635)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 21 2007, 5:34 PM 

Quote:

More Gas than Oil. We can all get our Oil from elsewhere, your oil extracting technology is nowhere near Western Standards yet, infact its aged and rusting mainly.


Typical Western idiotic response. It may be hard for a moron to believe, but not everything sits in Russia aging and rusting away.

And if you're gonna say Russia's oil extracting tech is "nowhere near Western standards" please prove it. I won't pretend to say I know otherwise, I don't know anything about Russian oil extraction tech, but if you're gonna make such a statement, prove it or you just look stupid.

 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login beryoza)
Moderators

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 21 2007, 5:57 PM 

Russian technology lags behind western technology and this is a fact.This is
why Russia cooperate with countries like France and Germany,to improve their
technology level.

In any case Russia has nothing common to Russia back in 1998 with a pathetic
12 billion $ in reserves.

-------------
"I have Authoritah???!!!That should be fine,just fine!!!"
-------------

 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login 5thGuards)
WAFFer

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 21 2007, 6:41 PM 


"Russian technology lags behind western technology and this is a fact.This is
why Russia cooperate with countries like France and Germany,to improve their
technology level."

Really?

Strainge , care to explain what western systems are better than Russian in following factors:

Anti Air systems
Anti Ship missiles
Torpedo's
Ballistic missiles
MLRS systems
Tank protection
Stealth on Tanks ( at least a little , new Russian tanks use coating to make them harder to see on radar , the new T-95 is said to be stealth )
Anti Air missiles ( only US rivals that with AIM-120 and Sidewinder )
Submarine armor
Aircraft manevrability
Space tehnology( except USA )
Satellites
..
..
..

 
 

(Login Veles25)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 12:08 AM 

5thGuard!
this i mass disagree.
Russian technology doues lag behind Western by almost
10 years.Some astimate that Russian Military technology is eavn more than 10 years behind.
----------------------------------------
Europe spends almot 50 times more on research and development.
----------------------------------------
Russians doo large spy operations to get ther hands
on European technology.
Germany and Austria allone haw cought 12 Spys trying to
get information on Highttech.
Subs,Tropedos,Satelits,Antimatter,BioEnergy,Tanks,Planes

-----------------------------------------
Russias has equipment build whit the same
principels like in the 70-80s.
Europe has huge technological progarmas,and made incredible progres in some things,wich Russia wont be able to cach up.eavn in the next 25 years.
Whit the Lisabon treaty awry countrie in EU
spends 2,5-3% on R&D.And Europe will lead the
world in the Furture in technoligy.This is a Goal of EU.European scientits are one of the finest.
--------------------------------------------
And also Europe is spending huge amounts of
money on Bio Energy and renewable energy.
Soon Europe wont need any more gas to import from Russia and Middel East.European scientific comunity expect that this will happen in 2025.

If Russia has not rewiwed by then,it will becomme much more difficult.
This is not to say Russia is not technologicaly advanced.But Europe just has much much more reasurces and money.And its also Eu,s goal.

 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login 5thGuards)
WAFFer

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 1:05 AM 

Veles if we are talking about military tehnology Russia is advanced in the areas that I have wrote.
Now of course Europe has some advanced things and I know about them , but not too much , most advanced things Europe has is from US.
This is of course if we are talking purely military tehnology.

 
 

(Login Veles25)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 1:12 AM 

Yes you are right,
but Russia is not superior techonligicaly.
Miltary i dony realy know,but i think in some areas
Europeans are bether and in some russians.

Oh.
Europe doesnt have awryhting form USA.
Europe builds prety much all of its Ships,Subs,Planes,Nukes,Rockets,Carriers.....

In fackt Usa imports european stuff as much as europe
form USA.If not more.
And in some things ,Euopre is eavn bether than USA.

 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login 5thGuards)
WAFFer

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 4:14 AM 

Yes you are right,
but Russia is not superior techonligicaly.
Miltary i dony realy know,but i think in some areas
Europeans are bether and in some russians.

Oh.
Europe doesnt have awryhting form USA.
Europe builds prety much all of its Ships,Subs,Planes,Nukes,Rockets,Carriers.....

In fackt Usa imports european stuff as much as europe
form USA.If not more.
And in some things ,Euopre is eavn bether than USA.



1.Carriers ? Yes Europeans make them alone , is any superior to US carriers? No.
2.Subs ? Yes they make subs alone , is any superior? No. ( The new Astute is very good though , example of how European tehnology is fine and I agree that it is. )
3.Planes ? Yes they do , is any superior to Raptor? No.
Do they have strategic bombers? No.
4.Nukes ? Well most don't have , and most have Us Trident II on subs. But yeah they made some of their own.
5.Ships? Well yes they make their own , most is not close to US tehnology , the new Type 45 British destroyer is a pinacle of European tehnology at its best though.
6. Rockets/Missiles? Your wrong here , most missiles are US designed , look at the anti ship missiles , most europe navy's use Harpoon anti ship missiles , look at the A-A missiles , what A-A missiles do europe's fighters use? AIM-120 .. most missiles are US. So they are not as advanced here too.



Now let me point out a few things , Europe is very advanced in military tehnology.
They have some stuff that is more advanced than any other country in the world has.
I agree , I also like Europe tehnology , im European.
But I also know that most of the advanced military tehnology is in possesion of US and Russia.


Cheers.

 
 

justin
(Login subroc12)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 5:03 AM 

I would say overall the U.S. is more technologically ambitious than Europe when it comes to defense programs, while the PAAMS / Sylver-Aster combo is great, the USN ushered in the same basic capability in 1986 with USS Bunker Hill. However, with the end of the cold war the diffrences eroded to a degree. None the less, the US still has by far and wide the worlds largest and most advanced Military-industrial complex.


 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login Aietus)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 11:11 AM 

All russia has to do is turn off the petroleum tap off for a month
& we will see how those of you that bitch about the efficiency of russian oil companys ,will enjoy paying 2.50 euro per litre of petrol.
better still,wait till washington bombs iran & see how much more sweet russian oil is,


 
 

(Login Veles25)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 12:01 PM 

By 2025 Europe and USa wont need Russian oil.
Awrything will be bioenergy and renuwable energy.
That can hurt Russia you know.
-----------------------------------------------
Now lets see about Weapons.

Europe produces best small arms.All US solders and UN
uses H&K,SIG,SAURER and so on.
US tank Abrams was design by Germans,and uses the Rheinmettal L44GUN and MTU engen.
IRIS-t rocket.
MLARS is design jointly by Germany USA Britain.
U212a is the most stealthiest Sub in the world.
HERMES will be a EUropean GPS.
some of the Most advanced SPy satelites like SAARLUPE.
European Tanks and Vehicels are awsome.
Go check Rheinmettal,Kraus Meifei Wegmann,GIAT,

DM2A4 Torpedo is a ass kicker!
IDAS (missile)will be the best short range missle in the
world once it enters in serives in 2009.
Carl Zeiss Optics are best in the world.
Taurus missile is awsome.
RIM-116 RAM launcher is awsome
HOPE-state of the art
PARS 3 LR-finest in the world
HOSBO
Storm
Exocet
All those European items are state of the ART.
Germany,France and UK build now Awosme stuff.
Just look at the Diehl BGT Defence.It produces finest
missiles now.
The Sachsen klass frigates are some of the best in the
wrold.Else USA wouldew not expresed such a interest in
them.
The british Destryers and upcomming Carriers will be
also awsome.And Brits will build them by them selfs.
EU produces some of the finest warplanes.Typhon is
second best after F22raptor.
Europe is leading in Directed-energy weapons
The fact is that Russia is way behind EU in some stuff.
But altough Russia can produce good stuff,it douesnt have the money to put awrything Brandnew like EU.


We are already macking many things USA is making.
Europe is no longer in Cold War.European Goal is to
produce all its war items by its self.



ANd if EU desires it can easyly match USA in military.
All Eu needs to doo is to raise its budget to 5,5%.

But i agree that USA produces bether Airplanes and Aircraft Carriers.

Go read some about the upcomming European military equipment.YOu will be absolutly amased.
Trust me.Europe has leaped extremly forward in the
last 5 years.





 
 

5thGuards
(Login 5thGuards)
WAFFer

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 12:49 PM 

Never said Europe does not produce great tehnology , I already said they do , and im very amazed with the developments we did till now.
Btw you forgot new Barracuda
Anyway yes I agree that Europe has great tehnology however I still see US and Russia producing more tehnological advanced stuff , now don't get me wrong , it aint that big of a difference but still.
For example look at these things:

US- ( Space tehnology amazing , Supercarriers far bigger then Europe's , Cruisers ( Europe has none ) , Anti Air missiles like patriot, Ground - Air missiles , Anti ship missiles , Aircraft are amazing , stealth strategic bombers and normal strategic bombers , stealth fighters , stealth tehnology , unmanned tehnology , Aegis defence system on ships , anti air missiles like Sidewinder and AIM-120 , Helicopters , AH64D is amazing , ICBM tehnology is better , new projects aswell , allthough the F-35 is US/UK development but others etc... )
These are tehnology's that US has a advantage , there are many.

Europe- ( Great ground tehnology , better than US thats for sure! just look at Tanks Leo 2, abrams would not be good without the German gun , then small arms as you said , Artillery ( Phz 2000 is very good ) , Type212 is very good indeed , British has some nice projects as CVN , Type 45 , Astute. ) Im very amazed in our tehnology yet I still see its not as much as It could be.

Russia- ( Simply amazing ground tehnology is the best , Anti air systems S-400 S-300 , MLRS Smerch ,Anti Stealth Tehnology, Iskander is amazing , the new T-95 Tank is said to be stealth and even more protected than T-90. And then at aircraft tehnology they are developing stealth tehnology PAK-FA , strategic bombers , Mi-28 and Ka-50 helicopters are amazing and no europe helicopter can compare. Anti Air missiles like R-37 and R-77 amazing , Anti ship missiles , torpedo's , new projects like the new Frigate ( Destroyer ) and new Corvette ( Frigate ) , Cruisers , new SSBN and new SSN Severodinsk ( said by us experts to be the best submarine when it comes to service , Space tehnology), ICBM .



 
 
Phoebus
(Login me31fm)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 3:28 PM 

Quote:
your oil extracting technology is nowhere near Western Standards yet, infact its aged and rusting mainly


Oh please do elaborate on that, give us all your specs and facts about this technology gap. We'll be waiting, rest assured.




"...Goerge Stephanou set an example of manner and ethos.
Never forget about this man and his daily message of peace...."

 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login Veles25)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 9:59 PM 

The German-Dutch system is equal or bether than AGEIS.
Also Europe doesnt need Crusers.
Thats why we build such a large Fregates.
For example the upcomming German Freegates of 6800tons(nearly 8000tons in USA standards) is equal to Light Crusers in awrything.
But we call it a Freegate for political reasons.

Same thing whit the upcoming british destroyers and Carriers.Bigger USa carrier dosent nesseary means that
it is bether.
Europe builds best Fregates,Corvetes and destryers.
I can garantee you.
ANd replacement for Baracuda will be much much bether
than the original.
europe uses awryhing Brand new! Where USA still uses
some equipment wich is 50 years old.

But yes you are right.Usa doues have higher Space technology.But it spends in NASA 2x as much as Europeans
on ESA.Europeans can match and excead USA in awryhting
if we put the time and money in it.
Also Usa goues and Handpicks European scientists.It did
it in the past,and still doues now.
European Scientits are the extremly vailuble in USA.
I know it!I study Organic Chemistry in USA now.
--------------------------------------
I,m not saying Russia dosent prodouce good stuff.
But Russians exagerate it.Thats why Russians are so
secrative.
What i,m traying to say is that Europe has made a massive progres in Weapon technology.
Wenn i see the upcomming European stuff,i get amased.
Í see Europe becomming the Top hightech producer in the
World.It already is, in many things.

Cheers


 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login Areianos)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 10:37 PM 

the issue here is russia has been accumulating vasts amount of gold since 2001 that german & british and american central banks have been selling.

this is not in conjunction with the untapped gold reserves russia has in its own back yard.

lets not forgt gold has gone from $250 to $700 in only five years.

so the russians are building an economic war chest







Re Bin Laden ti na kanw
Pou den kserw na petw aeroplano
Mes thn Ankyra na to riskw
Tourkous kai memetia na gamisw

 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login Areianos)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 10:39 PM 

don't worry about today, it's in 10 years when the western world will be crumbling from a mass credit crunch.

russia has just been through theirs the western economy is on the verge of facing it NOW.



Re Bin Laden ti na kanw
Pou den kserw na petw aeroplano
Mes thn Ankyra na to riskw
Tourkous kai memetia na gamisw

 
 

(Login c-seven)
La Grande Armee (France)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 10:49 PM 

US-
° Space tehnology amazing. Probably. But the world leader for comercial launch is Ariane
° Anti Air missiles like patriot -> Aster 15/30 - SAMP-T
° anti air missiles like Sidewinder and AIM-120 -> Mica (lighter, vectoring thrust, EM and IIR seaker - longest range for a IIR missile), ASRAAM, Iris-T
° Anti ship missiles -> Exocet Blk 40 plus a very good norwegian one I don't remember the name
° stealth strategic bombers and normal strategic bombers , stealth fighters , stealth tehnology -> antistealth radar: the Thales Home Alerter 100 presented this year at Le Bourget air show http://www.thalesgroup.com/events/bourget2007/web/pressroom.html>
° unmanned tehnology -> Neuron UCAV
° Helicopters -> Eurocoptere world leader by far.

Europe-
° Tanks Leo 2 -> very good but Leclerc more sophisticated, more expansive and better
° Phz 2000 is very good -> Probably. Caesar and Bonus amunitions are not bad too.
° Type212 is very good indeed , Type 45 -> Horizon and FREMM too
° Astute -> Triomphant class strategical sub'
plus
° ASMP-A tactical ram jet nuclear cruise missile
° Meteor
° Scalp-EG, Storm Shadow, Taurus
° MU 90 torpedo
° Rafale (the best one ), Eurofighter, Gripen

Russia-
see above




 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login 5thGuards)
WAFFer

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 11:20 PM 

Ok il give you a few examples and try to tell me with what exactly does Europe beat them

USA:
Space tehnology ( all )
Satellites
Stealth ( B-2 , F-117 , F-22 ) ( dont say anti stealth , we are talking only about stealth tehnology here )
Supercarriers
Missile Cruisers ( Don't say about the frigates again because Cruiser's role is significantly different )
AIM-120D ( 180km range )
Harpoon ASM
Laser guided bombs
AEGIS system is the best , all the experts agree and you claim otherwise?
Eurocopter is inferior to Ah-64D .. sorry
MLRS
ICBM
The new destroyer project is amazing
Sonar tehnology
etc.


RUSSIA:
Space tehnology
Satellites
Anti Stealth
Anti Air ( S-400 )
R-77 , R-37 Air to Air ( 175+km and 400km )
MLRS ( Smerch 90km )
Iskander ( 400 km )
T-95 will be stealth and have 152mm gun
Fighters ( Since PAK-FA is near end of development )
Anti Ship missiles
Torpedos
Helicopters ( Ka-50 , Mi-28 )
ICBM
Cruisers ( True warships )
SSBN ( Borei ) and new Severodinsk SSGN




Now I am European , im not from US or Russia , but I live in real world , and in real world Europe can rival both US and Russia but they have less advanced stuff FOR NOW.
Don't get me wrong im not arguing just saying facts and discusing , if you want to proove me wrong and add facts please do and I will quote you and explain them

Cheers

 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login Veles25)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 11:39 PM 

Since ween is Leclearc bether than Leopard a6?
Only french seem to bolive it.
But in Nagold testing ground,Leo2 beat Lecleac easyly.
Leo2 whit German crew----Leclearc whit French crew.
Franco-German brigade.

Acording to US Military chanell Leopard is the finest tank,unqestionaly!
Leclearc is on the 4th place.
Only tank that has ewer beaten the Leo2 was a T-90.
But the leo2 was a a4 model(built 1984).The T-90 build in 2001.Once they tested a Leo a6(build 2001) Vs. same
T-90.Leo2a6 won again.
-----------------------
But anyways.We are talking here about european combined.
Not French.
And Ariane is not build by France,but by
Germany,Britain and France...

 
 

(Login c-seven)
La Grande Armee (France)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 22 2007, 11:52 PM 

USA:
° AIM-120D ( 180km range ) -> Meteor: lighter because ram jet and 150km practical range
° Harpoon ASM -> Exocet blk40 and the norwegian stuff
° Laser guided bombs -> AASM, much better than J-DAM and other SDB
° Eurocopter is inferior to Ah-64D .. sorry -> Mmmmmm you say it
° MLRS -> relatively low tech. Could be built anyday if needed me think
° ICBM -> M51
° Sonar tehnology -> Thales


RUSSIA:
° Satellites -> Europe not ridiculous: Helios 1,2,3 satellites, the brit's stuff and the german SAR radar satellite + the ESSAIM (also called Frenchlon in analogy with the poodle's Echelon). But all right, the USA and Russia (not so sure?) are ahead
° Anti Stealth -> see the Tales Home Alerter 100
° Anti Air ( S-400 ) -> yeah, the S300 and S400 not bad. But SAMP-T not bad too
° R-77 , R-37 Air to Air ( 175+km and 400km ) -> Mica, Meteor, ASRAAM, Iris-T
° Helicopters ( Ka-50 , Mi-28 ) -> I love those ones

Those not quoted are those were I admit some superiority or already replied.

Anyway the edge isn't technological. Not with Russia at least. Wonder why Malaysian SU30 MKM (the most advanced version IMO) are full of french electronic aboard and Indian SU30 MKI are full of french and israeli tech'.

With the US the edge is sometime fiew years but less than one generation that's a certainty.






 
 

(Login Veles25)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 23 2007, 12:17 AM 

USA:
Space tehnology ----yes it is bether than Eu,s
Satellites ===in most,but not spy satelites
Stealth ---yes here too,Usa is bether
Supercarriers ====unquestionaly
Missile Cruisers ---Well European Huge Fregates have the same function,but we call them fregates
AIM-120D ---German& British MBDA Meteor is much bether
Harpoon ASM---RBS 15 (Robotsystem 15)is just as good
Laser guided bombs--HOPE/HOSBO is best in the world
AEGIS system --i say that it is proven that Dutch-German
system is equal to it.Also Brits a making a new one
wich will allso be equal to it.
Eurocopter is inferior to Ah-64D ---well ,,we are not so sure.....But i agree.
MLRS--developed jointly by the United Kingdom, United States, Germany -where Germany has ingeneard it.(ingenears from Diehl defence)
ICBM--yes usa is bether,but europe can easyly cach up
if we deside to!
The new destroyer project is amazing--i absolutly agree
whit you!But so are the British.Nether looks dosent mean its bether on battlfeald
Sonar tehnology -----No way.Europea is about equal to USA in Sonar tech.

Also Europe leads in Directed energy weapons....
Ween i say Europe.I mean German,Britsh,French and others
all combined.
Eu has absolutly cought up and eavn surpast USA in many
things.



RUSSIA:
Space tehnology --inferiour to Eu,s
Satellites--also inferor
Anti Stealth==equal
Anti Air ---inferior
R-77 , R-37 Air to Air ( 175+km and 400km )--upcomming
european missiles are way bether.
MLRS ( Smerch 90km ) --not sure.....
Iskander ( 400 km )----not sure.....
T-95 will be stealth and have 152mm gun----It is dificult and inpractical to design a stealth tank.
Fighters ( Since PAK-FA is near end of development )
Anti Ship missiles---Russias-70,s technology-European is
2000 technology.
Torpedos---OHmy...Except for Nuclear torpedos,EU leads
in awry way.Check the upcomming torpedos for U212a
Helicopters ---i cant deside,and i was to lazy to compare
ICBM---russia is bether,but eu can becomme bether if
we deside to doo it.
Cruisers ( True warships )--those are old and rusty,barly working right
SSBN ( Borei ) and new Severodinsk SSGN--oh yes russia is bether here,no question.
------------
I anderstand.I,m not arguing eighter.Just discusing

Cheers.



 
 

Hokkien Beng
(Login Sabo_King)
The Singa-Lauts (Singapore)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 23 2007, 2:28 AM 

Quote:

Anyway the edge isn't technological. Not with Russia at least. Wonder why Malaysian SU30 MKM (the most advanced version IMO) are full of french electronic aboard and Indian SU30 MKI are full of french and israeli tech'.


Because the Malaysians refuse to acknowledge Israel as a sovreign state and unofficially back its destruction. With leaders like Mahatir anything can happen, he may be gone, but many of his backers haven't
Stupid move imo, NOTHING compares to the Israelis when it comes to ECM
Another reason is because they don't like going to USA... Or the USA doesn't like to sell em "high-tech" arms.

 
 

5thGuards
(Login 5thGuards)
WAFFer

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 23 2007, 3:12 AM 

USA:
Space tehnology ----yes it is bether than Eu,s ( APROVED )
Satellites ===in most,but not spy satelites ( APROVED p.s note that US has far more satellites in space so even if spy satellites are not just as advanced they are more effective.BTW US has anti satellite weapons )
Stealth ---yes here too,Usa is bether ( APROVED )
Supercarriers ====unquestionaly ( APROVED )
Missile Cruisers ---Well European Huge Fregates have the same function,but we call them fregates ( Im not sure provide some info )
AIM-120D ---German& British MBDA Meteor is much bether ( They dont have the range , any fighter with AIM-120D would shot before the opposition would be able to shot doesn't matter if they have better manevrability - Range is the most important.
Harpoon ASM---RBS 15 (Robotsystem 15)is just as good ( OK il give you that they are equal)
Laser guided bombs--HOPE/HOSBO is best in the world ( Ok agreed it was comprehensive)
AEGIS system --i say that it is proven that Dutch-German
system is equal to it.Also Brits a making a new one
wich will allso be equal to it. ( Maybe , im not so sure about it , but its still not BETTER . )
Eurocopter is inferior to Ah-64D ---well ,,we are not so sure.....But i agree. ( APROVED )
MLRS--developed jointly by the United Kingdom, United States, Germany -where Germany has ingeneard it.(ingenears from Diehl defence) ( Yeah true lets count it as a joint tehnology then )
ICBM--yes usa is bether,but europe can easyly cach up
if we deside to! ( I know , they are still better though APROVED )
The new destroyer project is amazing--i absolutly agree
whit you!But so are the British.Nether looks dosent mean its bether on battlfeald ( I know , it looks nice )
Sonar tehnology -----No way.Europea is about equal to USA in Sonar tech. ( Ok I guess il agree on this )

Also Europe leads in Directed energy weapons....
Ween i say Europe.I mean German,Britsh,French and others
all combined.
Eu has absolutly cought up and eavn surpast USA in many
things.



RUSSIA:
Space tehnology --inferiour to Eu,s ( How exactly? Russians have been in space for ages , they have better cheaper and effective ways of tehnology's and they have much more experience )
Satellites--also inferor ( Maybe a bit , but certainly not as effective because too little of them :
Satellites in space : Russia 1390
US 999
Europe 66
BTW RUssia has anti satellite weapons

Anti Stealth==equal ( No way, wrong here they don't have a succesfull system for shooting down stealth planes )
Anti Air ---inferior ( Are you joking , S-400 and even S-300 is superior to any Anti Air system that Europe has )
R-77 , R-37 Air to Air ( 175+km and 400km )--upcomming
european missiles are way bether. ( Inferior Range = Death ) Besides do you have info on the new R-77 version? It can compare in almost any aspect with the upcoming missiles and has far bigger range.
MLRS ( Smerch 90km ) --not sure..... ( Not sure about what? Smerch range is 90km guided missiles , Europe MLRS has range of 30-40km not exactly sure but something like that )
Iskander ( 400 km )----not sure..... ( Not sure about what? Isklander is the most advanced themor missile launcher. )
T-95 will be stealth and have 152mm gun----It is dificult and inpractical to design a stealth tank. ( No its not, Russian tanks use coating even now to reduce radar vision , the new T-95 is said to be stealth.)
Fighters ( Since PAK-FA is near end of development )( APROVED)
Anti Ship missiles---Russias-70,s technology-European is
2000 technology. ---> from 70's ? Dude , Granit is from 70's sure it still has far bigger range.
Yakhonts are new , they are amazing . 3M-54 Klub is new its amazing , BrahMos is new and amazing.
The Reduga Kh that is fired from bombers is by far the best.

Torpedos---OHmy...Except for Nuclear torpedos,EU leads
in awry way.Check the upcomming torpedos for U212a ( I know about barracuda , it aint in service yet and the Shkval 2 which will come out is said to have a bigger range and be faster.
Helicopters ---i cant deside,and i was to lazy to compare ( Il help you , comparing Eurocopter to Mi-28 and Ka-50.
Europe > Russia in electronics
Russia > Europe in Speed , Survivability , Armor , Amarment , Manevrability.
Now if either you think electronics is all then the Russians are better.

ICBM---russia is bether,but eu can becomme bether if
we deside to doo it. ( No need to do so ) ( APROVED )
Cruisers ( True warships )--those are old and rusty,barly working right ( Slava class and Kirov class are amazing and they are refited , 2 more Kirovs are beeing refited too , and they are working pretty fine , and you know how Strong Anti air and Anti ship capability they have , unchallanged by any other warship at sea atm. only problem in these case would be lack of training in russian navy.
SSBN ( Borei ) and new Severodinsk SSGN--oh yes russia is bether here,no question. ( APROVED )

BTW i forgot to mention Strategic bombers , can't argue here Europe has none.

------------
I anderstand.I,m not arguing eighter.Just discusing

Cheers.

I know dude , I just didnt want you to get the wrong impresion that im arguing , its very fun to have this conversation

Btw I understand what you mean and I will tell you why Europe is still not better in more things.

Because WE RELIED TO MUCH ON US EQIPMENT IN THE PAST.

But now in the last years Europe finaly started to give much higher priority to Europe and to produce our own tehnology without US , and we are starting to boost fast , and in the future we will maybe surpase both , id really like to see that.


Cheers

 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login Fantaros)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 23 2007, 3:26 AM 



Russia steps up military expansion


Luke Harding in Moscow
Wednesday August 22, 2007
The Guardian






Vladimir Putin announced ambitious plans to revive Russia's military power and restore its role as the world's leading producer of military aircraft yesterday.
Speaking at the opening of the largest airshow in Russia's post-Soviet history, the president said he was determined to make aircraft manufacture a national priority after decades of lagging behind the west.

The remarks follow his decision last week to resume long-range missions by strategic bomber aircraft capable of hitting the US with nuclear weapons. Patrols over the Atlantic, Pacific and Arctic began last week for the first time since 1992.


Article continues

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Presidential aides hinted yesterday that Russia could shortly resume the production of Tu-160 and Tu-95 strategic nuclear bombers, now that the aircraft are again flying "combat missions". The bombers would be used as a "means of strategic deterrence", a presidential aide, Alexander Burutin, told Interfax.
Mr Putin said Russia would also resume the large-scale manufacture of civilian planes. "Russia has a very important goal which is to retain leadership in the production of military equipment," he said.

The new emphasis on Russia's revived military prowess comes against a backdrop of deteriorating relations with the west. Mr Putin has denounced the US's missile defence plans in Europe, scrapped an agreement with Nato on conventional armed forces, and grabbed a large, if symbolic, chunk of the Arctic.

Yesterday a senior Russian general warned the Czech Republic it would be making a "big mistake" if it permitted the US to use its territory. Yuri Baluyevsky, Russia's military chief of staff, said Prague should hold off any final decision on the shield until after next year's US presidential elections.

"I do not exclude that a new administration in the United States will re-evaluate the current administration's decisions on missile defence," he said, after a meeting in Moscow with the Czech defence minister, Martin Bartak.

Speaking at yesterday's MAKS-2007 international airshow, Mr Putin said: "Russia, as a state that has acquired new economic capabilities, will continue to attach special importance to high technology and development."

Analysts, however, took issue with Mr Putin's claim that Russia was already the leading producer of military aircraft. However, they acknowledged that Russia had developed some impressive "technologies".

These include a new S-400 missile and aircraft interceptor system, similar but better than the US Patriot, and a lethal new supersonic cruise missile, the Meteorit-A.

"They have some very good kit," one industry observer said.

Russia also used yesterday's airshow - held at Zhukovsky, a former Soviet airbase on the leafy outskirts of Moscow - to show off its latest generation of jet fighters.

These include an upgraded Sukhoi jet, the SU-35, which has a new engines and a new radar system, and a revamped "vector thrust" MIG, the MIG 29-OVT. "They are good aircraft. The MIG can do a very lovely flip," the industry observer added.

One analyst said Mr Putin did not want confrontation with the west but was determined to restore Russia's strategic parity with the US.

"Russia wants balance. It wants a strategic balance with the US," Ivan Safranchuk, a Moscow-based expert on defence, told the Guardian.

"Russia wants to do this as cheaply as possible. But with the Bush administration withdrawing from arms control treaties, Russia is saying it is also ready to keep the balance at a high level of cost."

Asked about Russia's resumption of long-range bomber patrols, Mr Safranchuk said: "It's significant. For 15 years the political leadership was constraining the military on this. Now it isn't."

In the 1960s and 1970s the Soviet Union produced more civilian planes than any other country in the world apart from the United States.

After the collapse of communism, Russia's impoverished government drastically cut spending on its aircraft industry. Factories producing military planes fared better than those building civilian aircraft, mainly because of buoyant sales to India and China. But Russia started to fall behind the west in the design of advanced fighters and other military aircraft.

Mr Putin is now determined to make Russia the world's third-largest manufacturer of passenger jets - after the United States, with Boeing, and the European Union, with Airbus.

Russia's passenger airlines own about 2,500 ageing aircraft - of which just 100 are western-made models - although they fly one-third of all Russian passengers.

Last week Russian officials said they planned to build 4,500 civilian aircraft by 2025, while the Kremlin has pledged £125bn to boost the civilian industry.

As part of the plan to boost significantly Russia's civilian aircraft industry, a new state-controlled organisation, the United Aircraft Corporation, has been created.

It is led by Sergei Ivanov, Russia's hawkish first deputy prime minister, who sat next to Mr Putin during yesterday's airshow - and the leading candidate to succeed him after next year's presidential elections.





http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/



 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login Fantaros)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 23 2007, 3:37 AM 




Putin is no dummy. He knows that the U.S., over extended in the middle east and all over the damn globe will be stretched even further now because it will not be able to ignore Russia. Furthermore, Putin has done the right thing, for his nation. He has embarked upon an outwardly pressing , positive pressure situation and has taken the bull by the horns, so to speak.


In the past week ALONE:

1. Russia virtually claimed part of the North Pole for ITSELF!
2. Has resumed Strategic Bomber flights in the north atlantick, first time in 15 years.
3. Has held the largest post-soviet era Air Show and has pledged to out-do EVERYONE in aircraft and weaponry production.
4. Has violated Georgian Airspace several times. Georgia, of course, a close PAL of NATO.
5. Has issued thinnly veiled warnings to Czech Republic about allowing the U.S. to set up camp there.

6. Has upped the ante in KOSOVO with stronger wording, and now Russia says that she "WILL NOT ALLOW" Kosovo independence.


Say hello to Cold War Part 2. But don't blame the Russians, they were not the ones who initially broke the treaties signed between Russia and the U.S., DUBYA gets the "kudo's" for that one.



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/



 
 

(Login Veles25)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 23 2007, 10:35 AM 

I know dude , I just didnt want you to get the wrong impresion that im arguing , its very fun to have this conversation

Btw I understand what you mean and I will tell you why Europe is still not better in more things.

Because WE RELIED TO MUCH ON US EQIPMENT IN THE PAST.

But now in the last years Europe finaly started to give much higher priority to Europe and to produce our own tehnology without US , and we are starting to boost fast , and in the future we will maybe surpase both , id really like to see that.


Cheers
-----------------------------------------------------
yes it is a fun conversation

yes you are right!Europe has relied on US equipment in
the Cold war.
But cold war is over since 15 years.
And look how far we went.Eu combined produes twice as
many scientists.And it has cought up whit many things.
I also bolive that in the near future EU will
becomme a TOP HIGHTECH producer in the world.

The problem was that Europeans did not had the will to
be a Superpower after WW2.
In fact WW2 alowed USA and USSR to becomme a supepowers.
If Eu was united like now,That wouldew newer happend.
But That IS Changing fast.
Europeans are finaly geting ther patriotism and the will back.Eu is more and more bahiving whit ther own interests,and not alowing others to interfere.

European Union is stronger than USA economicaly and its
much more populated.It also has 2x larger industry.
Eu produces many more scientits nowdays than USA.
And those scientist dont go to USA like they used to back in the Cold War.
USA used to handpick tru European universitys back then.
But now our scinetis get paid more than they would in
USA.read about Lisabon treaty!

Eu is the world next Superpower.I can garante it.
USA is losing its influence fast,while EU is gaining influence fast.
---------------------------------------------------
Oh by the way!Bigger range of Rockets dosent mean they
are bether.In fact they are worser in some properitys.
Modern Misile philosphy is awrage range,Vary fast,Higly
manovarble,whit big war head,and whit vary light weight.

Cheers///

 
 

ingenting
(Login ingenting)
WAFFer

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 23 2007, 11:00 AM 

Eu is the world next Superpower.I can garante it.
USA is losing its influence fast,while EU is gaining influence fast.
---------------------------------------------------

If OPEC whants its oil,to be payed in Euro? then its going faster than we think!

 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login c-seven)
La Grande Armee (France)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 23 2007, 11:32 AM 

If OPEC whants its oil,to be payed in Euro? then its going faster than we think!

I agree completely


Vales: your lack of rigor and accuracy in your statments, facts and figures is boring. Make a little effort.

AIM-120D ---German& British MBDA Meteor is much bether

Agreed but MBDA is mostly franco/british since it's the merge of Matra and BAE missile system.
It is now world leader.

Meteor seeker is based on Mica's. Other europeans had lost seeker know how or almost since ASRAAM and Iris-T's are based on a american tech' (the brits were a bit screwed there since the US was supposed to buy the ASRAAM in exchange ... that's why they made the AIM9-X); and they operate AMRAAM for medium range.
The german's make the very good ram jet engine of the Meteor though, but I wonder if this one isn't based on ASMP-A's ram jet engine (not sure)

Harpoon ASM---RBS 15 (Robotsystem 15)is just as good

Well... allow me to say that Exocet is more proven and sold worldwide. The latest Blk 40 version kick ass

Laser guided bombs--HOPE/HOSBO is best in the world

The world best stand off weapon today is Sagem AASM. Without doubt. It has a propelant kit that make the bomb gain altitude after launching. It's very smart. 15 km range when launch very low level and 50 km higher level. You can drop burst of 3 to 6 bombs in one pass, each on different targets even 90° off boresight. Nobody can beat it today.

AEGIS system --i say that it is proven that Dutch-German
system is equal to it.Also Brits a making a new one
wich will allso be equal to it.


That's why the brits put Aster 30 missiles on their T-45 AA frigates...

ICBM--yes usa is bether,but europe can easyly cach up
if we deside to!


M-51: stealth war heads, waving entry trajectories to avoid defences, what do you want more?

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=clsvbivrB70

And Ariane is not build by France,but by
Germany,Britain and France...


The brits have nothing to do here and Arianespace is owned 34% CNES (France) and 30% EADS (France / Germany). So 49% french and 15% german. The rest is shared between 10 other european sharholders... but the brits.

more than 2/3 of the comercial satellites curently in service in the world were lauched by Ariane
http://www.arianespace.com/site/fr/infos/societe_sub_index.html

NOTHING compares to the Israelis when it comes to ECM

Well ... since the ECM are the most classified stuffs I wonder how you know it. Anyway, french's ECM have always been reputed: ask the greeks they operate both Mirage 2000-5 and F16 blk 50+ and they know it better I guess.






 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login irkut)
The Red Army (Russia)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 23 2007, 3:05 PM 

A DRFM jammer is a DRFM jammer they buy French and Israeli DRFM jammers because the Russian jammers weigh more not because they somehow jam worse. Truth be told the Russian jammers are "inferior" because we stole the technology from the Americans whose kit in this area is inferior when we should have stolen it from the French

Anyway, one the problems with Russian aerospace today is it cant mass produce many of the component subsystems it develops so even where we have the same level of technology it does us little good.

The Nokturn thermal imager from Zenit is a very good 2nd generation 100% Russian TI camera, but Zenit can only makes about 20 a year so we have to use French SAGEM TI technology in the hundreds of the other systems we sell every year. Russia has the same level of technology it just never built a billion dollar factory for mass production.


 
 

(Login c-seven)
La Grande Armee (France)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 23 2007, 7:47 PM 


Quote:
Truth be told the Russian jammers are "inferior" because we stole the technology from the Americans whose kit in this area is inferior when we should have stolen it from the French

It'd have been a great honor you know ...

Thanks for the honest insight.
Remind me to help next time you have ignorant trolls in the legs who talk crap about russian kits perroting "history channel" or other mythomaniac american media as main source of information.

Quote:
Irkut, most of these morons are stuck with the mid 90's mentality that everything Russian is "rusting", you know, the typical CNN-induced retort forced into the minds of cattle like him.



+1





 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login Veles25)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 23 2007, 9:05 PM 

Irkut, most of these morons are stuck with the mid 90's mentality that everything Russian is "rusting", you know, the typical CNN-induced retort forced into the minds of cattle like him.
--------------------------------------------
Some peapol still think Europe is the same in like in the Cold war.OR Germany is the same as it was in 1990,s.

C-Seven,you are wrong whit some of your statments.
Most of the french Misils are made whit British and German cooperation.
The French usualy use the joint projects to get the
idea and technology.Then they pull out and develop it
by them sefls.Since they have this strange complex.
Like whit Europefighter-Raphaele.

For example Aurora Programme is almost entierly
made by German scientits.AS is Large Hadron Collider in CERN .But once the French are sure
they have all the knowhows,they will doo it them selfs
there own way.
France basicaly uses Europen ingenering for its own profit.Once france is sure it has all the knowhow it usualy splits,and goutes its own way.

Thats why some dont want joint projects whit France no
more.No disrespect this time,but thats the truth.


Laser guided bombs--HOPE/HOSBO is best in the world
I wounder how much you know about HOPE.Do some research.
Its specificaly sayd that its the best Laser guided bomb
in the world.

But enugh now.WE dont want to turn this treath into
my countrie is bether than that country.

cheers

 
 
nappyheadedHO
(Login Veles25)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 23 2007, 10:14 PM 

Diehl BGT Defence ingeniers and produces some of the
world best missiles and ammunition.I can assure you.

IRIS-T
IRIS-T SL / IRIS-T SLS (in addition to MEADS)
AGM ARMIGER
LFK NG
PARS 3 LR (TRIGAT)
GMLRS
RIM-116 RAM
RBS15
IDAS (submarine-launched missile, planned for the new Type 212 submarine)
Barracuda (supercavitating torpedo)
EUROSPIKE
HOPE/HOSBO
SMART-Ammunition

 
 

Hokkien Beng
(Login Sabo_King)
The Singa-Lauts (Singapore)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 24 2007, 1:47 AM 

Quote:
Well ... since the ECM are the most classified stuffs I wonder how you know it. Anyway, french's ECM have always been reputed: ask the greeks they operate both Mirage 2000-5 and F16 blk 50+ and they know it better I guess.


You tend to hear things when every male in your country (Singapore) is/was or will be a soldier/most air force personnel/sailor at the age of 18-19.
I suggest you look at the Singapore Armed Forces, especially closely at F-16D block 52+ and our La Fayette Frigates, aren't exactly La Fayette Cruisers on paper anymore. we don't buy junk.

EDIT: changed "airman" to air force personnel

 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login beryoza)
Moderators

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 24 2007, 2:04 AM 

"You tend to hear things when every male in your country is/was or will be a soldier/airman/sailor at the age of 18-19.
I suggest you look at the Singapore Armed Forces, especially closely at F-16D block 52+ and our La Fayette Frigates, aren't exactly La Fayette Cruisers on paper anymore. we don't buy junk."

Saying that all Greek airman and soldiers are 18/19 is stupid.Pilots that fly our
fighters are above 25-26.



-------------
"I have Authoritah???!!!That should be fine,just fine!!!"
-------------

 
 

Hokkien Beng
(Login Sabo_King)
The Singa-Lauts (Singapore)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 24 2007, 3:57 AM 

Quote:
Saying that all Greek airman and soldiers are 18/19 is stupid.Pilots that fly our
fighters are above 25-26.


I was referring to Singaporeans, i was kinda hoping the latter half of my post and my group would give it away....

and i do believe i made a mistake by using the term "airman" as it could be easily mis-interpreted, i mean€t, non-pilot air force personnel, maintenance, logistics, FDS, ATC, and those who will go on to crew choppers or airplanes(regulars of course)

 
 
Phoebus
(Login me31fm)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 24 2007, 10:35 AM 

Quote:
You tend to hear things when every male in your country is/was or will be a soldier/most air force personnel/sailor at the age of 18-19.


Nope, only around 40% do that and that's for those who don't go on further education




"...Goerge Stephanou set an example of manner and ethos.
Never forget about this man and his daily message of peace...."

 
 

Hokkien Beng
(Login Sabo_King)
The Singa-Lauts (Singapore)

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 24 2007, 11:18 AM 

Quote:
Nope, only around 40% do that and that's for those who don't go on further education


Nope 99% join the Singapore Armed Forces, or did you fail to notice i was talking about Singapore not Greece?

 
 

nappyheadedHO
(Login Fantaros)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: "The days of Russia being dismissed as a spent force are over"

August 28 2007, 5:08 PM 


 
 
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