a question who will win if possible

we all know france has NUKES but lets put them aside use classic and conventionel weapons all included

navy, air and ground forces.

i just want trouble makers out and dont flame please .

(we have allot evidence that france is pro greek sided country, delivers greece the most advanced systems
backed greece during ww1 against turkiye.) greece can be included in this scenario also.

FRANCE Croissant




that it was invented in Vienna in 1683 to celebrate the defeat of the Turkish siege of the city, as a reference to the crescents on the Turkish flags, when bakers staying up all night heard the tunneling operation and gave the alarm; tales linking croissants with the kifli and the siege of Buda in 1686; and those detailing Marie Antoinette's hankering after a Viennese specialty.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croissant



Hellenic Hoplite(note the greek nose)



Turkish Conqu-Errors(note the turkish mustache)

"france versus Turkiye ( war scenario )"
--------------------

FFS!!!

Lol, what are the Turks going to do? Invade France?

Turkey can't invade France. France can't invade Turkey. France can strike at Turkey and cut off shipping to Turkey, Turkey can do no such thing to France.


"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."

"Turkey can't invade France. France can't invade Turkey. France can strike at Turkey and cut off shipping to Turkey, Turkey can do no such thing to France."


....yeah but history proves just the threat of an invasion is enough for the French to turn tail and run home to their mothers.


I Hail The Flag

..yeah but history proves just the threat of an invasion is enough for the French to turn tail and run home to their mothers.

Believe me, nobody could be mistaken between the nazi army and the Turkish one

DirtyDirtyDirtyBird
....yeah but history proves just the threat of an invasion is enough for the French to turn tail and run home to their mothers.

history proves so there must be plenty of examples. I must be a total ignorant in history since I know none. That must be easy for you, who know history very well, to give me just one example so I can improve my knowledge? thank you in advance.

@Roland

I remember discussing with you some incidents in which elements of the French 7th Army in the southern Netherlands fled at the sight of forward German armoured units, but I agree with you that the statement of the Turkish poster is ridiculous. Anytime a war would break out between France and Turkey, I'd rather be on the French side. In every army's history there would be evidents of cowardice, simply because it's a human treat. The general impression of the French fighting capabilities, however, is severly distorted and, perhaps, the result of Hollywood anti-French crap.

Oh my god can someone be actualy that stupid to ask something like that , DO YOU HAVE A EUROPE ATLAS , GO LOOK WHERE FRANCE IS AND GO LOOK WHERE TURKEY IS , for god sakes

Vin
I remember discussing with you some incidents in which elements of the French 7th Army in the southern Netherlands fled at the sight of forward German armoured units,

I remember this discussion, it wasn't all that clear, what was clear is that the french army didn't considered Holland as a place to defend at all cost, the hight command didn't even agreed if it was wise to be there or not at the firt place. Now that there is scene of panic in defeat in all army is nothing new and I would never pretend it didn't happened. The Russians had there share, even the Yank at Kasserine pass, all the army when there is no coesion and no order.
Now that's a completely different thing than saying "....yeah but history proves just the threat of an invasion is enough for the French to turn tail and run home to their mothers." witch suppose it's not units that disban but the whole army just because of threat. So I would like Mr DirtydirtyTurk to give us at least an example of that, must be easy for him, or I would have no choice but to think he is a moron speaking out of his @ss.

You can't expect much from a Turk

MALTA-YOK -- Turkish sailors getting lost whilst trying to find Malta.

This is one of the most unlikely scenarios, like Brazil versus Australia for example.

Let's pretend that it's possible though. In a conventional war, neither side will have the upper hand against each other. The Turkish Navy may not be as big as the French one, but it's not small either. The TN has more Harpoons than the Royal Navy (second in NATO after the USN) due to its large amount of missile boats.

The Turkish Air Force will also make sure that the immediate coastline around Turkey will be clear from any blockade. The few Rafales and Super Etendards on board the CDG aircraft carrier are too small in comparison to the Turkish Air Force.

France will send the Turks back to the stoneage...oh wait...theyre already there.

French troops + Armenian gangs tried to occupy Cilicia (southern part of Turkey) at the end of WW1.

Turks were at their weakest point, surrounded by enemy forces from all sides but they still managed to beat the French (and the Armenians and the Greeks)

Put up French soldiers against Turkish soldiers today and you'll have the same result.

French cars, French films and French girls speaking English with that beautiful French accent are lovely things that came out of France.

But Turkish soldiers would eat French soldiers alive and that's a fact.

Turkiye!!! Why? because Franch don't know how to fight a war after Napoleon.... oh wait, Napoleon isn't franch, his Anglos Corsican. franch are
soft eggs, they don't know how to fight a real war, look at history, WW2. damn it.

only retarded people would compare such a conflict based on what happened 100 years ago...turks dont have the quality, morale, education and IQ that is needed for todays battleground...you take out their superiors and they surrender, just what the 8 soldiers did against PKK 3 months ago without firing 1 single shot...

--------------------------------------------


Quoting a Turkish forumer:
"It's a well known fact that most of the boys or girls living in south-eastern Turkey are losing their virginities to horses or dogs of their villages, so I don't think this will suprise any Turk in this forum; we are used to these kinda news..."

Those Armenian gangs were women, children, and eldery escaping massacre from the Turks and Kurds.

The Forty Days of Musa Dagh is a good read about these events, written by an Austro-Hungarian Jewish man.

http://www.amazon.com/Forty-Days-Musa-Dagh/dp/0786711388/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209199560&sr=8-1

"just what the 8 soldiers did against PKK 3 months ago without firing 1 single shot..."


Retarded Greeks twisting the facts as always.

13 brave soldiers died in that incident. The 8 that surrendered were Kurdish traitors.



And the Armenian women and kids had to save themselves from the Turks AFTER what the French and Armenian gangs did to the Turkish women and kids in the region.

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU PPL TALKING ABOUT??

What Turkish navy?? The French are the builders of the EXOCET missiles...so you can say goodbye to that turksish navy of urs...
Turkish airforce? yah done...what are it's chances of standing against the Mirages & Rafales
Turkish army? don't let me start about their M60s which are still in use

Get this thru ur thick skull! a country that doesn't produce its own weapons cannot win a war against a country that produces it's own weapons (particullarly a country like France which has pretty high tech weapons)

If a Turkish F-16 goes down in an event of war Turks wouldn't be able to replace it...as they don't produce their own airplanes...on the other hand The French can replace their Mirages & Rafales (even eurofighters)...not to mention that the French Economy can withstand a war...while the turkish economy cannot!

War is about economy & weapons...and the french have both to their advantage

The person who started this thread, is another victim of Ataturk nationalistic propaganda, he even said...Greece can join France as well...meaning the French can have airbases & early warning systems in Greece, while turks wouldn't know the french are coming until the Mirages are over Istambul..

Only this, is sufficient fact that you have no idea what strategy means...

he probably is some pathetic kid who counted the # of soldiers turkey has & # of soldiers France has..and said..hmm we have more soldiers so we'll win!

I feel sorry for you! but i feel sorrier for those who try to represent themselves as real "military-heads" & are trying to convince themselves that turkey stands a chance!





http://www.genocide-museum.am/
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/

hello everybody

this question is not a fictiob for my. usa go to kill iraki. why for petrol.

france is on of powerfull state, who want to play for this economical interest.

today turkey is perhaps not interesting french people but one day nobody say.



today:

french army is not superior in conventionel war. but have a good technologycal potentiel and capacity to product fast.
in war from turkey,it can't use nuclear capacity.
turkey is very dificule to take and france cant occupacte turkish state
war not only win from army. and diplomaticaly france is better to play to insurge local peaple( kurd (mitterand,ww1....)armenian(ww1)arabish(ww1))

i am turk but i think turkey lost

the time where brave figth with sword is finish, and moderne war is ............

A better thread would be turkey versus Swasiland or may be armenia, but not France LOL

there is no real conventional french army!!
even switzerland can invade france very easily !!

Quote: we all know france has NUKES but lets put them aside use classic and conventionel weapons all included navy, air and ground forces.

Oh yes no nuke for France, how easy

France spend €3 billions each year for her nuke.. about what turkey is spending for it's air force.

So, no nuke for the french and no air force for the turks. Still want to play ?



Each of these babies cost €1.56 billion. We have 4 of them which is equivalent to your entire F-16 fleet.

The French navy will easily dominate the Turkish navy. Without proper access to raw materials and trade, Turkey will simply have to be at the receiving/defending end of the conflict.

I feel much sorry that this kind of threads is displayed now, when around 3years ago France and Turkiye were good friends.
I feel sorry for this state of mind that was changed thanks to a handfull of selfish politicians.

On the scenario, today's MN would have a harder time against the turkish navy than it would let's say in 2015 with all the new equipment coming.



FREE EASTERN TURKISTAN

Quote: Turkiye!!! Why? because Franch don't know how to fight a war after Napoleon.... oh wait, Napoleon isn't franch, his Anglos Corsican. franch are soft eggs, they don't know how to fight a real war, look at history, WW2. damn it.

Solider for soldier, the Turks are far superior and regularly win top prizes in NATO exercises.

The Turks would smash the French to pieces even with having terrorists like the PKK and the Kemalists against Turkey.

this scenarios are only indicators of the mentality of the torks...
they still want to prove that they are a global superpower marching with a bullet train to the 21fst century, whereas they are rolling from izmir to
kars on the buck of a mule with the company of the islamist elcorachos..

Turkish soldiers would eat French soldiers alive and that's a fact!LOL-----------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Where did you get that idea?For Gods sake.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And as for War!
Hmm! Lets see.......
First! Take a look where France is and where Turkey is.Then think a little bid.

Second!
France has about 5x larger industry and can produce tanks,carriers,subs at 5x faster rate....
Turkey might be able to defend for short period,but beacuse of french far superior industial capabilitys they would simlply outproduce turkey in awrything,simple mathematics!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets put is this way!Its a allout WAR and both nations start spending about 10% of ther GDP for war effort.....France 250 billion vs. Turkey 50 billion......That gives you a idea.....

On top of thast the research and invation gous clearly to France as well.....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And Third!
To finish this,,,,,Turks can wage war for short period until ther equipment lasts.....
Then they need to switch to gerilla warfare cus ther is no way that they can compete with French Military outout......or until UN steps in and resolves the crisis.....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote: France will send the Turks back to the stoneage...oh wait...theyre already there.

Correction: The F-35 will send the Rafale to the Stone Age... Oh wait... It's already there

Rafarte + Super Fartandarde -VERSUS- F-35 Lightning II + F-16 Block 50+ CCIP with JHMCS

Sounds like a big joke to me

Turkey with some f35....not a problem..........
Turkey can buy only a limited nummber,,,,,France can produce fife fold more.......
Franc overhelms Turkey......

Turkey is neighter a World Power nor a industrial power......France is,,,,Get a grip!

Turkey (TAI) will produce the F-35 in Turkey by the way, so it won't exactly be a purchase.

As for the Turkish GDP, it's already at the edge of $1 trillion, so it's not bad either.

Turkey also has a good industrial base. For instance, Turkey produced 1,024,987 motor vehicles in 2006, ranking behind Germany (5,819,614), France (3,174,260), Spain (2,770,435), the United Kingdom (1,648,388), and Italy (1,211,594), respectively. The production in Turkey should surpass that in Italy by the end of this year.

No way....i just checked....the figures you just posted are greatly exagarated.......
Turkish GDP is about 700 trillion.So please........
And as for Turkey being equal or surpass Italy,thats not eavn possible for several reasons.....
Think a bit..........

turkish gdp is not 1 trillion neither 700 billions...
turkish gdp is 450 billions.
70 million population* 6500=450 billions more or less..

Turkish car production is nowhere near that what you just mentioned..........But its GDP is little bit less than 700 trillion.....something around 680 trillion.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Now dont make me go google for third time ..........LOL....
----------------------------------------------------------------
Turkey is not in G8 and is far behind any of G8 nations...............
In fact turkey is not eavn in top 10 vehicle producing countris in the world.........
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Now i know Turkey has some industry,,,,(otherwise they couldew not build those corvetes)
but to compare it to French or Italys is way to exagarated.Or yet allone Japans and Germanys!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I,m not saying Turkey is some underdeveloped nation eighter,but eavn a exagaration has its limits.

all reliable sources place average gdp of turkey at 6.600 dollars.
turkish is making alchemies with the all time high yeni lira exchangeable value to create false promises.
in reality the since then yl lost about 25% of its value against the dollar.

with the stable value of yeni lira,as the dollar reclaim its value, turkish avarage gdp will be bellow 7000.

Quote: Correction: The F-35 will send the Rafale to the Stone Age... Oh wait... It's already there

What are you going to do with one F-35 prototype that hasn't begin its weapon trials yet and that belongs to the USAF ?

Quote: Turkey (TAI) will produce the F-35 in Turkey by the way, so it won't exactly be a purchase.

Get back on earth, turkey will only produce low technology parts

TUAF, I edited your post with the image of the F-35 because its dimensions were tremendous, I had to scroll right 2 or 3 screens to read a single post.


Mytilene, eastern heaven of the Aegean
An old man by a seashore at the end of day, gazes the horizon with seawinds in his face
Tempest-tossed island, seasons all the same, anchorage unpainted and a ship without a name
Sea without a shore for the banished one unheard, he lightens the beacon light at the end of world
Showing the way lighting hope in their hearts, the ones on their travels homeward from afar
The albatross is flying, making him daydream, the time before he became one of the world`s unseen
Princess in the tower, children in the fields, life gave him it all: an island of the universe
Now his love`s a memory, a ghost in the fog, he sets the sails one last time saying farewell to the world
Anchor to the water, seabed far below, grass still in his feet and a smile beneath his brow

This is for long-forgotten
Light at the end of the world
Horizon crying
The tears he left behind so long ago
So long ago...

Quote: Turkey (TAI) will produce the F-35 in Turkey by the way, so it won't exactly be a purchase.

turkey will have the honor to put the parts from the usa together

observed by american engineers

Quote: turkey will have the honor to put the parts from the usa together observed by american engineers

AFAIK, the assembly line will be in Italy, not Turkey.

Turkey's GDP figures. IMF World Economic Outlook, April 2008.

The partnership with Italy would be for the Eurofighter (not JSF) if Turkey accepted to be a Eurofighter partner (Alenia Aeronautica was responsible for marketing the EF2000 in Turkey)

The Turkish JSF F-35 (a different story) will be assembled at the TAI factory in Turkey.

if there is no nukes , quality experince courage of the soldiers define the victory..

like vietnam ....vienam won the war...france and usa lost it...





-----------------------------------








GREY WOLVES ARE READY FOR GREAT TURAN....

To be realistic:

1. With nukes (dirty play) France can give a lot of damage to Turkey.

But I don't know if that will change after the 12 new anti-ballistic-missile batteries will enter service, providing a considerable defensive shield for Turkey:





2. In terms of conventional warfare, the F-35 + F-16 Block 50+ CCIP w JHMCS + Boeing 737 AEW&C MESA combination will give Turkey the upper hand in terms of aerial defense versus the Rafale + Super Etendard + E-2 Hawkeye combination of France. And who controls the sky, gets the upper hand in terms of defense.

By the time France will start producing new Rafales (and by the time they enter service) most of the existing Rafales and Super Etendards will be nailed down.

The chief contenders for Turkey's missile shield program (12 batteries, 36 systems, 144 launchers) are:

* Russian S-400
* American PAC-3
* Israeli Arrow II

I,m talking about GDP and GNP nominal not about GDP (PPP) per hour............
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why doo you think turkish have more experience........french have fought more wars and its
officers are good........

If germany did it,,,what makes you think Turkey can......
Turkey absolutley has nothing revolutionary in its aresnal like Germans had...
And i,m sure France has learned alout,,,,after all they now train together with rest of EU,,,,,,

I dont see any possible way that Turkey can defeat France,,,,,,,,first of all take a look
where each Country is and how far they are from each other,,,,,,
Second look at french navy and look at turkish navy,,,,French Navy can easly block Turkey.
Thrid look at each country,s industrial and technological development,,,,,,,,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Solider for soldier, the Turks are far superior and regularly win top prizes in NATO exercises.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh Please! Show me one link or reference that this occurs....................................
As far as i know Germany regulary wins top prices........and France is good too.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
estimated GDP for 2008

France 2,843.133
Turkey 748.301

Thats some serious gap..........and the modern infrastructure gsp is eavn higher,,,,,,,,,
and both countrys have close population.

Then they need to switch to gerilla warfare cus ther is no way that they can compete with French Military outout......or until UN steps in and resolves the crisis.....

That's assuming the UN can stop France, no major country is going to offer to help defend Turkey against France and if any do they will be just inviting the rest of Europe to jump in. More likely Turkey will propose a resolution and France will simply veto is and continue as it was.

Correction: The F-35 will send the Rafale to the Stone Age... Oh wait... It's already there

How do you propose to get F35's? Those jet's generally go via the UK from the US and stop on a British Island in the Atlantic too IIRC. Without landing rights there, those jets can't make it to Turkey.

Turkey (TAI) will produce the F-35 in Turkey by the way, so it won't exactly be a purchase.

Assembling primarily American (80%-85%?) and British (15%-20%) systems. You need to get the systems first, nobody is going to let Turkey have them if its at war with France, and it can't produce them itself. There's also the matter of getting the parts past France!

2. In terms of conventional warfare, the F-35 + F-16 Block 50+ CCIP w JHMCS + Boeing 737 AEW&C MESA combination will give Turkey the upper hand in terms of aerial defense versus the Rafale + Super Etendard + E-2 Hawkeye combination of France. And who controls the sky, gets the upper hand in terms of defense.

1. You dont have F35's yet and they will be the less potent export version. Turkey will also struggle to get spare parts. Also when Turkey does finally get F35's, France will have a whole lot more Rafale.
2. Is your airforce composed entirely of block 50 F16's? I think not.
3. France can operate from France over Turkey

The chief contenders for Turkey's missile shield program (12 batteries, 36 systems, 144 launchers) are:
* Russian S-400
* American PAC-3
* Israeli Arrow II

None of those can stop an ICBM. Your only defence is permanent evacuation and disperal of your citizens.


"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."

PPP you fool:

1) TAI built all of Turkey's F-16s, it will also build Turkey's F-35s.

2) All of Turkey's existing F-16s are undergoing the CCIP upgrade, which will bring all of them to Block 50+ level. The upgrade package includes JHMCS, might I add.

3) 30 more F-16 Block 50+ are currently under production at TAI's facilities in Turkey. They will also have JHMCS.

4) Both Turkey and France have KC-135R Stratotanker for aerial refueling.

The S-400, PAC-3 and Arrow II are also capable against ballistic and cruise missiles, might I add.

Therefore, let's say a Franco-Turkish conflict happened in 2013, i.e. after Turkey received its F-35s and upgraded all of its F-16 fleet to Block 50+ level with JHMCS.

In any case it will be a short conflict because the U.S. will rapidly intervene.

Until the U.S. intervenes within a few days, numerous Rafales and Super Etendards wil probably sink to the Mediterranean Sea. It is highly unlikely that France will use nuclear missiles, but more probably France will use cruise missiles such as SCALP Naval. These will also be blocked by the missile shield (S-400, PAC-3 or Arrow II).

In short, it will be a defensive war for Turkey, which will control the skies though.

In other words, it will be a short-term conflict (a few days) primarily between American and French air force technologies.

The bad thing for Turkey, though, is that if some Rafales and Super Etendards will go down the Mediterranean (which is highly likely), France will use all of its weight in the EU to damage Turkey's external trade and exports, and thus, Turkey's economy as a whole.

It will come with a heavy price for Turkey to pay, of course.

Even though the "pride" of breaking French nose would be priceless and timeless.

I can't even imagine what kind of an embargo France will impose if we go a bit too far and accidentally sink Charles de Gaulle as well

Probably the Froggies will declare an Eternal Crusade against Turkey, LOL

Don't think one French soldier will move one inch

Just several nukes towards Ankara and that's the end of that conflict.

Quote: The bad thing for Turkey, though, is that if some Rafales and Super Etendards will go down the Mediterranean (which is highly likely), France will use all of its weight in the EU to damage Turkey's external trade and exports, and thus, Turkey's economy as a whole. It will come with a heavy price for Turkey to pay, of course. Even though the "pride" of breaking French nose would be priceless and timeless.

Breaking a French nose for a charred Turk corpse. The cost of downing a couple of rafale and Super E would probably come at the price of your entire navy, airforce and some cities wiped out. This time you won't have the german building your defences like in WW1. You still lost in WW1; we took Syria and Lebanon.

---------------------------


De Gaulle to the General Koenig, Norman hero of Bir Hakeim: "Hear and tell your troops: the whole of France is watching you, you are our pride."[

2. In terms of conventional warfare, the F-35 + F-16 Block 50+ CCIP w JHMCS + Boeing 737 AEW&C MESA combination will give Turkey the upper hand in terms of aerial defense versus the Rafale + Super Etendard + E-2 Hawkeye combination of France. And who controls the sky, gets the upper hand in terms of defense.

How many F-35 available in Turkish AF ?

Get real, how I can see things, the submarines will try to soften the turkish navy as much as possible, then, will target military airport as soon as possible then, the Rafale from CdG (around 30 Rafale F3, the efficienty of around 100 F-16) will be able to enjoy a nice blue Turkish sky with few ennemies

By the time France will start producing new Rafales (and by the time they enter service) most of the existing Rafales and Super Etendards will be nailed down.
F-35 better than Super Etendard ? What an achievement

After reading a lot of "analysis" from the turkish side...i suggest all europeans to take a look at these ppl (xcept the French who already know this)...and think for a little...dou really want this type of illiterate ppl in the EU...particularly the British & the Italians who are supporting Turkey's membership so much!

I mean come on!! here we have a bunch of ppl who seriouly believe their ****hole economy can stand a war against France.

A People who believe their navy stands a chance against a 1000 EXOCET missiles & the French nuclear powered submarines.

A people who don't believe that their F-16s can withstand the new Rafales & Mirages...F-35s have not been delivered yet...even if they are delivered!! You'll have 100 aircrafts agains the French Aeronautical Industries...which mean the French could continously renew their airforce...while any turkish plane that goes down is irreplaceable!

Last but not least! In an event of war...If France wanted to buy foreign weapons...like German Leopard 2 tanks...or British naval pieces..or Russian systems...or even American...do u think Europe would put Emargo on France?? while who would sell equipment to turkey in case of such a scenario? OH wait i forgot! The Pakistanis & the Chinese right???

Think a bit b4 u talk stuff like this...u keep proving us that u have no clue what ur talking about!!! Come out to the real world!
No u don't have the strongest military in the world!
No ur not an anceint ppl
No u didn't create the Banking system nor the toilet
No u don't have a proper education or health system
No ur not in Europe
& No Alaska is not a part of Turkey & the Eskimos are not Turks!!





http://www.genocide-museum.am/
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/

if france use nukes

i'm sure turkiye will get some nukes in case and use it first to send back armenia to stoneage and after france
no problem

i'm sick and pissed off when i see on tv daily christians kiiling muslims tru out the entire world

bush already declared HOLY CRUSADE before iraq invasion


so why are thise fakin muslims waiting for.

if i was a president of turkiye i will declare the cihad to all muslims


and fight with all they have without fearing of dead. than see what you cowards gonna do

crowling behind the nukes and cruise missiles.

**** you all muslim haters and killers
we will one day hunt you all.

---


Has:

* one of the largest armies in the World
* Europes largest army (NATO's second largest)
* one of Europes largest navies
* a Special Forces Unit that won the 2006 Para-Kros Competition in Germany
* more female fighter pilots than entire Europe combined

PPP you fool:

1) TAI built all of Turkey's F-16s, it will also build Turkey's F-35s.

2) All of Turkey's existing F-16s are undergoing the CCIP upgrade, which will bring all of them to Block 50+ level. The upgrade package includes JHMCS, might I add.

3) 30 more F-16 Block 50+ are currently under production at TAI's facilities in Turkey. They will also have JHMCS.

4) Both Turkey and France have KC-135R Stratotanker for aerial refueling.

Find me a source that states Turkey produces every system on the Turkish F16's and F35's You might both have tankers, but Turkey woluld be slaughtered over France. Lockheed agree with me, and they are the prime contractor

The S-400, PAC-3 and Arrow II are also capable against ballistic and cruise missiles, might I add.

Yes and RPG's are useable against aircraft, but they can't do a damn thing against a plane at 45,000ft. Similarly S400, PAC3 ect are useful against short range ballistic missiles, not against sophisticated SLBM's. Turkey doesn't even have the capability to detect such missiles, let alone engage them. Are you suggesting that Turkey's ballistic missile defences are far superior to the US's ballistic missile defences TUAF? The M51 once over Turkey will just be a shower of tiny warheads flying at an incredible speed towards the ground with heavy and sophisticted decoys going with them, there will be no single missiles.

These can take on long range ballistic missiles, is Turkey getting these? [see below]

US GBI (Ground based Interceptor) (minimum of 32 to take on 16 missiles)


ICBM tracking radars


In any case it will be a short conflict because the U.S. will rapidly intervene.
Until the U.S. intervenes within a few days, numerous Rafales and Super Etendards wil probably sink to the Mediterranean Sea.

What makes you think the US will rapidly intervene? Why the hell would they care what happens to Turkey, your hardly one of their most vital allies. Also, what exactly do you think the US can do to intervene? They aren't going to attack France if that's what your hoping, Turkey simply isn't worth that much. Your not the first to make the assumption that the US will come running to your aid though, the Argentine's thought the same and they had support from key US leaders too, but in the end the US just stood there whilst the British forces tore Argentina apart.

It is highly unlikely that France will use nuclear missiles, but more probably France will use cruise missiles such as SCALP Naval. These will also be blocked by the missile shield (S-400, PAC-3 or Arrow II).
In short, it will be a defensive war for Turkey, which will control the skies though.

The enemy doesn't play to your advantage, they play to your weaknesses. If Turkey has PAC-3 set up, they will send the cruise missiles against Turkish shipping or to places where Turkey doesn't have PAC-3 setup. Remember also that Turkey has a limited number of missile defence assets and they cant be everywhere, so France will have the option to just pick them off with anti-radiation missiles/cruise missiles.

if france use nukes
i'm sure turkiye will get some nukes in case and use it first to send back armenia to stoneage and after france
no problem

Yea just magicly appearing nukes huh, LMFAO! If France uses nukes, Turkey wont have anything reach France with just dust and dead people.


"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."

For god sakes why do you even bother PPP its clear that this scenario is impossible and will not ever happen and that if it would happen France would have much more capability to damage Turkey than vice versa yet none could occupy the another , its bullcrap , whoever opened the topic has to be a clueless ignorant fool.

History Fact I

The Turks sent the French pussies packing during the War of Independence when we were at our weakest and the French were arguably at their most powerful.

History Fact II

The Turks defeated the French pussies at Gallipoli and sent their most powerful warships to the bottom of the Dardannelles.

Fact

The most highly trained combat effective unit in the French Army is the French Foreign Legion, that should tell you something about the fighting spirit and ability of the average French man, he has none, so their government has to pay real men from foreign countries to do their fighting on behalf.

Conclusion

The French are a bunch of schit eating pussies and all the fancy overpriced and in some cases low quality, ie Eryx, weapons in the world is not going to change that fact.


I Hail The Flag

In any case, a "Franco-Turkish conflict" is a scenario with a 0.000001% chance of happening.

But let's assume that the unimaginable became the truth:

1) France will be in the offensive, Turkey will be in the defensive (it can't be the opposite because Turkey has a defensive military doctrine). The conflict will happen around Anatolia.

2) What can France do with a handful of Rafales and Super Etendards on the CDG aircraft carrier?

The Turks will control the air.

Turkish air superiority will be further enhanced with the F-35 + F-16 B50+wJHMCS + B-737-AEW&C-MESA + KC-135R combination.

Turkish air superiority means that the French Navy's surface fleet not be able to reach the vicinity of Anatolia very easily, if ever. The French submarines have a higher chance in approaching.

3) Turkey's Navy also has a large number of German submarines, which will give the French subs a hard time.

4) The French fleet is scattered around the globe. The fleet that will be available to confront the Turkish Navy in east Mediterranean during a short-term skirmish will never be large enough to gain the upper hand. The TN is the second largest user of Harpoon-armed vessels in NATO, after the USN, with more Harpoons than the Royal Navy.

5) The U.S. will intervene because Turkey is Washington's backyard (not that I'm proud of it, but it's the truth) with American military bases. The pro-Turkey Jewish lobby in Washington will also put its weight, along with Israel, to keep the conflict (skirmish) as short as possible.

6) It is not realistic that France will use nukes during such a skirmish, but rather cruise missiles like SCALP Naval from their submarines. At present, Turkey's ballistic missile defense shield is not strong enough to stop these cruise missiles; but after the installation of the 12 systems (with 144 launchers) all across Turkey (S-400 is a hell of a missile by the way) the chances for these cruise missiles to hit Turkey will also be largely vanished.

Let me remind you that Turkey has the highly advanced 737 AEW&C MESA planes (with Multirole Electronically Scanned Array radars) which can scan all sorts of air and surface targets and movements. Turkey will have enough time to detect the arrival of a cruise missile from long distance (since Turkey's submarine fleet will not easily allow the French submarine fleet to come very close to Anatolia, the SCALP Naval will have to be launched from long distance.)

In short, there's no way that either side will be able to have the upper hand on one another.

It will be a useless, short-term skirmish that will cause unnecessary damage to the relations of two countries. But of course, the chances of it to happen is 0.000001%, so there's not much to worry about.

<<Correction: The F-35 will send the Rafale to the Stone Age... Oh wait... It's already there >>



I won't take side on this one but the above statement is true..




Block 60,the fighter that drove the final nail in the coffin of Mirage 2000

Armenia-Sacra: To answer your ALL of your questions...

The Turks are a Warrior breed. Fighting is what we do best.
The French (just like the Armenians) are an Anal breed. Giving Ass is what they do best.

---


Has:

* one of the largest armies in the World
* Europes largest army (NATO's second largest)
* one of Europes largest navies
* a Special Forces Unit that won the 2006 Para-Kros Competition in Germany
* more female fighter pilots than entire Europe combined

"The Turks are a Warrior breed. Fighting is what we do best."

Maybe if history didnt go back more than 24 hours.



--------------------------------------------

Your muslim bretheren, the Azeris, didnt think so when we anally raped them, their chechen allies, and their hired islamic mercaneries.

Warrior breed? Highly doubt it. You are simply lucky that the British, Germans, French, and Italians kept on insisiting you survive to help them counter Russia. Western Europeans are truely a barbaric group of people, keeping such filth alive in order to keep one of their enemies "at bay."

We started conquering and slaughtering people in West-China up to the north African coast. We have left millions of bastards back and finally settled down in Türkiye (The most beautiful country on this planet) No race on this planet can fight us one on one. The only way to kill us is huge technological advantage (Nukes,Carriers) or coward tactics (e.g Pkk)

Quotes of western newspapers regarding the Korean-war:



"4500 soldiers in the middle of the firing line have known how to create miracle. The sacrifices of the Turks will eternally remain in our minds." - Washington Tribune


"The courageous battles of the Turkish Brigade have created a favorable effect on the whole United Nations Forces." - Time


"The surprise of the Korean battles were not the Chinese but the Turks. It is impossible at this moment to find a word to describe the heroism which the Turks have shown in the battles." - Abent Post


"The Turks have shown in Kunuri a heroism worthy of their glorious history. The Turks have gained the admiration of the whole world through their glorious fighting in the battles." - Figaro


"The Turks who have been known throughout history by their courage and decency, have proved that they have kept these characteristics, in the war which the United Nations undertook in Korea." - Burner - U.S. Congressman


"There is no one left who does not know that the Turks, our valuable allies, are hard warriors and that they have accomplished very great feats at the front." - Claude Pepper, U.S. Senator


"I now understand that the vote I gave in favor of assistance to Turkey was the most fitting vote I gave in my life. Courage, bravery and heroism are the greatest virtues which will sooner or later conquer. In this matter, I know no nation superior to the Turks." - Rose - U.S. Senator


"While the Turks were for a long time fighting against the enemy and dying, the British and Americans were withdrawing. The Turks, who were out of ammunition, affixed their bayonets and attacked the enemy and there ensued a terrible hand to hand combat. The Turks succeeded in withdrawing by continuous combat and by carrying their injured comrades on their backs. They paraded at Pyongyang with their heads held high." - G.G. Martin - British Lieutenant General


"The Turkish forces have shown success above that expected in the battles they gave in Korea." - General Collings - Commander US Army


"We owe the escape of thousands of United Nations troops out of a certain encirclement to the heroism of the Turkish soldiers. The Turkish soldiers in Korea have added a new and unforgettable page of honor to the customs and legends of heroism of the Turkish nation." - Emanuel Shinwell - U.K. Minister of Defense


"The heroic soldiers of a heroic nation, you have saved the Eighth Army and the IX'th Army Crops from encirclement and the 2nd Division from destruction. I came here today to thank you on behalf of the United Nations Army." - General Walton H. Walker, Commander, Eighth Army


"The Turks are the hero of heroes. There is no impossibility for the Turkish Brigade." - General Douglas MacArthur - United Nations Forces Commander in Chief

Quote : http://www.korean-war.com/turkey.html

---------------------------------
Searching for the PKK scum...

Cold War-Era propaganda; help justify why NATO should allow a Muslim nation, which was sympathetic to the Nazi cause and an enemy to the allies during WW1, into its ranks. Period.

"No race on this planet can fight us one on one."

Based on the Battle of Cahul 13 Turks will get anihilated by 1 Russian soldier, so in order to even stand a chance you would need 26 Turks for every 1 Russian. That means 20,000 Russian soldiers can take over the entire Turkey today.

--------------------------------------------

Quote: Cold War-Era propaganda; help justify why NATO should allow a Muslim nation, which was sympathetic to the Nazi cause and an enemy to the allies during WW1, into its ranks. Period.

Says the "historian" who keeps pulling bullsh1t propaganda out of his hairy ass and keeps talking nonstop like a waterfall.

5th Guard and PPP are right!

This topic sucks,and eavn if war happend ,France can doo far more damage to Turkey than turks can to France.Thats absolutly true.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
AND AS FOR TURKEY GETING NUKES,,,,,,,,,Turkey lacks devlivery systmes,the knowhow,and suitable
military infrastructure.

PLUS!None of the great powers will help or yet allone allow Turkey this.Russia would be the first to stop Turkey.

Turkey cant compete with France nor Italy,Simple as that.

even thru i dont like the french people

i dislike the turks much more

france will win easily

turkey doesnt have a self-sufficient industry and certainly close to nothing in the aerea of machinery engeneering, france overhelms turkey serval times in military production and with bombing serval key points the turkish economy can be killed pretty fast

The most highly trained combat effective unit in the French Army is the French Foreign Legion, that should tell you something about the fighting spirit and ability of the average French man, he has none, so their government has to pay real men from foreign countries to do their fighting on behalf.

There is a limit (49%) for french to join the foreign legion, don't worry

2) What can France do with a handful of Rafales and Super Etendards on the CDG aircraft carrier?
As I wrote, 30 Rafale is equivalent with nearly a hundred of F-16 but it's sure that you prefer to avoid to read such information.

Turkish air superiority will be further enhanced with the F-35 + F-16 B50+wJHMCS + B-737-AEW&C-MESA + KC-135R combination.

Again, where does these F-35 come from ?
F-16 block 50 ? Hardly an equivalent of mirage 2000-5, hardly a match for Rafale F3.

Turkish air superiority means that the French Navy's surface fleet not be able to reach the vicinity of Anatolia very easily, if ever. The French submarines have a higher chance in approaching.
don't worry, our sclap will have more range than your F-16

3) Turkey's Navy also has a large number of German submarines, which will give the French subs a hard time.
France can even attack the submarines bases in nearly total impunities

4) The French fleet is scattered around the globe. The fleet that will be available to confront the Turkish Navy in east Mediterranean during a short-term skirmish will never be large enough to gain the upper hand.
Of course, during a war you never gathered your force ....

5) The U.S. will intervene because Turkey is Washington's backyard (not that I'm proud of it, but it's the truth) with American military bases. The pro-Turkey Jewish lobby in Washington will also put its weight, along with Israel, to keep the conflict (skirmish) as short as possible.
If you take the american presence into account, we can put France and Greece together.
And believe me, you won't have enough harpoon to sink Greece

"Based on the Battle of Cahul 13 Turks will get anihilated by 1 Russian soldier, so in order to even stand a chance you would need 26 Turks for every 1 Russian. That means 20,000 Russian soldiers can take over the entire Turkey today. "

20,000 Russians equal 2,000 Germans

Based on the Battle of Cahul 13 Turks will get anihilated by 1 Russian soldier, so in order to even stand a chance you would need 26 Turks for every 1 Russian. That means 20,000 Russian soldiers can take over the entire Turkey today.

Turkey can't take on Russia. Fact.

20,000 Russians equal 2,000 Germans

Russia lost ~10.6 million troops, Germany ~4.3 million troops.


"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."

<<Russia lost ~10.6 million troops, Germany ~4.3 million troops.>>


4,3 million German deaths include all the casualties inflicted by Americans,French and British in Europe,North Africa ect..The total German casualties in the Eastern Front don't exceed the 3 million mark.
More than 3 Red Army soldiers gave their lives to kill one German soldier.

Block 60,the fighter that drove the final nail in the coffin of Mirage

@ Russian:

At least you guys always have been our toughest enemies but dont forget that the ottoman army was comprised of many different nations and people. Most of the time the ottoman armys movement was
ill-planned and unorganized. You guys attacked us when the ottoman empire started crumbling. As you can see you guys had your heavy losses too so dont come up with 26 turks for 1 russian BS!

In this example 12 russians get anhiliated by one turk so you actually need 24 russians in order to be successful LOL



Example:

Russo-Turkish War 1877-1878



State Entry Exit Combat Forces Population Losses



Bulgaria 1877 1878 40 000 3 000 000 15 000

Montenegro 1876 1878 25 000 350 000 5 000

Russia 1877 1878 1 200 000 97 000 000 120 000 (!)

Serbia 1876 1878 40 000 6 000 000 5 000

Turkey 1876 1878 400 000 26 000 000 10 000

---------------------------------
Searching for the PKK scum...

In this example 12 russians get anhiliated by one turk so you actually need 24 russians in order to be successful LOL

How do you plan to get that ratio when they have the upper hand on you in EVERY field?


"He lives in a world where concept is reality..."

@Northern Cyprus-Reloaded...I didn't ask questions..i stated facts! There's a difference btw A QUESTION & A FACT...i'm not surprised u can't differentiate between them...that's mainly due to the low literacy rates you have in turkey...i pithy u for that!
Instead of spending a few billion on military material...spend some of it on educating ur ppl who still live in the dark ages of educational ignorance! (no wonder u still have "Honor Killings"...& violations of basic human rights)!

As for turks being fighter breed! As i see it u have done nothing but degenrate for the past centuries! So maybe this fighting technique that u know is not known to the rest of the world!

What have turks been doing for the last hundreds of years? That's right ladies & gentleman...pissing in their pants and running back to Anatolia from all directions!

LOL, Turkish dude, please tell me thats a joke, you picked one war out of how many?

Russo-Turkish War (1568–1570)
Russo-Crimean Wars
Russo–Crimean War (1571)
Russo-Turkish War (1676–1681)
Russo-Turkish War (1686–1700)
Russo-Turkish War (1710–1711)
Russo-Turkish War (1735–1739)
Russo-Turkish War (1768–1774)
Russo-Turkish War (1787–1792)
Russo-Turkish War (1806–1812)
Greek War of Independence
Russo-Turkish War (1828–1829)
Russo-Turkish War (1853–1856) (Crimean War)
Russo-Turkish War (1877–1878)
Russo-Turkish War (1914–1917) (World War I)
Soviet-Turkish War (1917-1918) (part of the Russian Civil War)

Are you going to tell me 1568 was the decline of the Ottomans? Decline of the Ottoman empire only stated in the mid 19th century, in part because Russia was owning the battlefield. Almost every battle was a Russian victory, the small number of times you did win, wasnt becaused you crushed the Russian forces but because the Czar signed an order to move the troops to battles the Sweedes. Cahul is just one of many, in Chesma your entire fleet was crushed by the Russian fleet of half the size.


And the Soviet and German death ratio is 1 to 1 if dont count the Soviet POWs that the Nazis killed, while Stalin chose to spare almost 4 million Nazi POWs.

--------------------------------------------

@ PPP:

My example was only to disprove his 26 turks to 1 russian ratio... Its not referring to todays battlefield situation !

---------------------------------
Searching for the PKK scum...

"Russo-Turkish War 1877-1878"

lol? That war the Turks lost with the treaty of Berlin, at least learn your histoy before looking like a fool. You had to beg the Brits to come help you because we were 1 step away from coming into Istanbul.

--------------------------------------------

The russian army had the upper overall but as i said before the ottoman army was totally unorganzied and comprised of various ethnicities. Most of the Ottoman army movements have been badly planned and many of the russian victories have been achieved by sudden attacks. Even though the Ottoman army still achieved some victories against the russians although its irrelevant looking at the whole situation at that time.



1570

In 1570 the Crimean Tatars horde terribly devastated the Ryazan borderland of Muscovy, only meeting weak resistance.

The Crimean army devastated unprotected towns and villages around of Moscow, and then set fire to suburbs of the capital. Due to a strong wind, the fire was quickly extended. The townspeople, chased by a fire and refugees, rushed to northern gate of capital. At the gate and in the narrow streets, there was a crush, people "went in three lines went on heads one of another, and top pressed those who were under them"[citation needed]. The army, having mixed up with refugees, lost order, and general prince Belsky died in a fire.

Within three hours, Moscow burnt out completely. In one more day, the Crimean army, sated with its pillage, left on the Ryazan road to the steppes. The Ottomans placed into slavery 150,000 Russians[citation needed]. Contemporaries counted up to 800,000 victims[citation needed] of the invasion in 1571. Papal ambassador Possevin testified of the devastation: he counted in 1580 no more than 30,000 inhabitants of Moscow, though in 1520, the Moscow population was about 100,000[citation needed].

--------------------------------

n July 1678, the Turkish army (approx. 80,000 men) of the Grand Vizier Kara Mustafa besieged Chigirin once again. The Russian and Ukrainian armies (200,000 men) broke through the Turkish covering force, however, the Turks had already managed to occupy Chigirin on August 11. The Russian army retreated over the Dnieper, beating off the pursuing Turkish army, which would finally leave them in peace.

--------------------------------

The main event of the conflict was the ill-prepared Prut Campaign of 1711, during which Russian troops under command of Boris Sheremetev attempted to invade Moldavia with the aid of Moldavian ruler Dimitrie Cantemir but were defeated by the Ottoman troops under Grand Vizier Baltacı Mehmet Paşa, in a decisive battle at Stănileşti (started on July 18, 1711).

The conflict was ended on July 21 by the Treaty of the Pruth, to the disappointment of Charles XII. The Treaty stipulated to return Azov to the Ottomans, Taganrog and several Russian fortresses were to be demolished, while the Tsar pledged to stop interfering into the affairs of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

-------------------------------

n 1810, the hostilities were renewed by the Kamensky brothers, who defeated the Ottoman reinforcement heading for Silistria and ousted the Turks from Pazardzhik (May 22). The position of Silistria now appeared hopeless, and the garrison surrendered on May, 30. Ten days later, Kamensky laid siege to another strong fortress, Shumla. His storm of the citadel was repelled at great loss of life, and more bloodshed ensued during the murderous storm of Rousse on July, 22. The latter fortress did not fall to the Russians until September 9, after Kamensky's army had surprised and routed a huge Turkish detachment at Batyn (August, 26). Young Kamensky died soon thereafter and the new commander, Mikhail Kutuzov, in accordance with his cautious character, evacuated Silistria and slowly started to retreat northward.








---------------------------------
Searching for the PKK scum...

And yes i repeat myself most of the russian victories have been achieved when the Ottoman empire was struggling with internal problems and financial crises. The real reason why the Ottoman empire has declined and therefore lost many wars is related to the miserable economy of the Ottoman empire.

...The fall of the Ottoman Empire can be attributed to the failure of its economic structure; the size of the empire created difficulties in economically integrating its diverse regions. Also, the empire's communication technology was not developed enough to reach all territories. In many ways, the circumstances surrounding the Ottoman Empire's fall closely paralleled those surrounding the fall of the Roman Empire, particularly in terms of the ongoing tensions between the empire's different ethnic groups, and the various governments' inability to deal with these tensions. In the case of the Ottomans, the introduction of increased cultural rights, civil liberties and a parliamentary system during the Tanzimat proved too late to reverse the nationalistic and secessionist trends that had already been set in motion since the early 19th century....

Quote : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

As i said earlier the russians have been our toughest enemy and that is the reason why we respect them!

---------------------------------
Searching for the PKK scum...

except usa nobody can beat turkey

"except usa nobody can beat turkey"


you made my day!!!

'We are either alone in the universe or we are not. Both ideas are overwhelming'
-Arthur C. Clarke-

Quote: Turkish air superiority will be further enhanced with the F-35 + F-16 B50+wJHMCS + B-737-AEW&C-MESA + KC-135R combination. Again, where does these F-35 come from ? F-16 block 50 ? Hardly an equivalent of mirage 2000-5, hardly a match for Rafale F3.

The Frenchy is seeing a mirage

France can't invade Turkey but Turkey CAN invade France. There are a few million Turks in Germany, they just have to take the train to Paris and riot, and the French immigrants will join them. It will be like a repeat of 2006, but larger. So France will capitulate even sooner, and pay the victors, Turkey and the immigrants, even more money.

Hey Russian
Regarding to your power please learn a bit history.There were 30 battle between russia and ottoman.russia won 13,ottoman won 13 and 4 of them were drawed.And fact that Ottoman usually fought against European allies.Last words for this usa sucker britishes,just learn how your glorious virgin elizabeth begged to help from ottoman againist spanish armada and how ottoman help to you during the waterloo victory.You do not like to Ottoman but at least you have to talk about truthes.

Do Turks not know their history? What the hell are you talking about?

--------------------------------------------

Soviet and german kill ratio was nowher near 1 to 1......It was 4 to 1 according to almost awry military historian i read.......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For example did you know that from june 22 til december 1 (operation barbarosa),the russian lost 15 men for awry 1 German men.....that counts in--- killed,wounded,captured.............
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After russian defence of moskov the ratio was 4 to 1 on awerage and remaind so truout the WAR.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only battle where germans lost more than Russians was Operation Bagration....But that was
cus the Army Group Center was severly weekend by allied invasion in France.That was it.

Vesle your an idiot, Berlin 6 to 1 for Soviets, Odessa 2 to 1 for Soviets, Budapest 2 to 1 for Soviets, Barabarossa 1 to 1, Leningrad 1 to 1, Stalingrad 1 to 1, in Dnieper Nazis lost more than a million men compared to less than half that on the Soviet side and etc....

Think before you post so you wont look like a complete retard.

--------------------------------------------

Filin, send my best wishes to Natasha and Olga, I miss them

I can still feel their taste on my tongue

Fillin......unlike you i think and research before i post......
Maybe you have lost your mind,but Historical facts have not.
And for your information.......The facts you just posted are far of,just as you are.

Battle of Berlin Germany lost 81,116 and Russia lost 458,080.

Battles of Rzhev Soveit casualys were so horific that they didnt eavn publish a note on it.
For the whole series of Rzhev battles, the numbers are not clear but the total Soviet losses are estimated at between 500,000 and 1,000,000 men.

Battle for Velikiye Luki
German losses ~20,000 -----Soviet losses over 100.000

Battle of Kursk
germna losses 180,000 --- Soviet losses 607,737

Battle of Odessa
Germany 17,729 dead-- Soviets 16,578 dead

<Note!In almost awry of this battle the Soviets outnummberd the Germans by aat least 2-3 to 1>

OMG i can go on and on........But then again this topic is about France vs Turkey

For further reading i sugest ur download David M. Glantz, The Soviet©\German War 1941¨C45: Myths and Realities: A Survey Essay.......freely downloadable on the Web.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now lets stick to the topic please....................Turkey vs.France............

just for a taste
-----

SSN Barracuda Nuclear Powered Attack Submarine, France

Six Barracuda nuclear powered attack submarines are to be built for the French Navy. The Barracuda class is being introduced to replace the existing force of the four SSN Rubis submarines which entered service from 1983 to 1988 and the two SSN Amethyst class submarines which entered service in 1992 and 1993.
"The Barracuda class is being introduced to replace the existing four SSN Rubis submarines."

The Barracuda missions include anti-surface and fast deep anti-submarine warfare, land attack using stealthy long-range cruise missiles, surveillance and intelligence gathering, crisis management and special operations.

The Barracuda submarine is a key element in the FOST (Force Océanique Stratégique) Navy Command of the French Strategic Nuclear Forces and the Marine Nationale 2015 Navy Model which defines the naval force requirements for 2015.

In 1998 the French Ministry of Defence put in place the Barracuda Integrated Project Team (BIPT) with team members Délégation Générale pour l'Armament (DGA), DCN with responsibility as the platform design authority and ship building prime contractor, Technicatome which has responsibility for the nuclear power system, and the Commissariat à l'Énergie Atomique (CEA), the French nuclear regulatory authority.

The feasibility study for the Barracuda class was successfully completed in 2002 and the programme entered the design definition phase in late 2002.

The French Defence Procurement Agency (DGA) awarded DCN and Areva TA (prime contractor for the nuclear powerplant) the contract for the design, development and production of the first of class vessel, with options on the remaining five, in December 2006. The first submarine is scheduled to enter service in 2017 with the remainder at two yearly intervals to 2027.

The first-of-class submarine will be called Suffren. The other hulls will be Duguay-Trouin, Dupetit-Thouars, Duquesne, Tourville and De Grasse. First steel for Suffren was cut in December 2007 at DCNS Cherbourg.

BARRACUDA SUBMARINE DESIGN

The Barracuda will have a displacement of about 4,100t surfaced, which is an increase of 70% compared to the Amethyste class submarines. The maximum speed will be 25kt and the diving depth more than 350m.

The high level of automation integrated into the submarine's operational and mission systems will allow the submarine a complement of 60 (in two crews) compared to 78 in the Rubis and Amethyst classes. The operational cost will be reduced by 30% compared to that of the Rubis class.

The Barracuda incorporates a range of diving, safety and damage control technologies and an Integrated Platform Management System (IPMS). Many of the technologies developed by DCN for the Le Triomphant class and by Izar and DCN for the Agosta and Scorpene classes are being integrated into the design of the Barracuda.

The ship design incorporates a range of stealth technologies to minimise the acoustic, magnetic, radar and visual signatures. The Barracuda provides a high silent running speed and manoeuvrability for the anti-submarine role.

COMMAND AND CONTROL

The SYCOBS (Système de Combat pour Barracuda et SSBN) the battle management system is being developed by DCN and Thales.
"The submarine has four 533mm torpedo tubes and accommodates 18 torpedo and missiles in a mixed load."

SYCOBS will also be fitted on the final SSBN submarine, Le Terrible, being built for the French Navy.

The combat system integrates active and passive sensors, electronic, optronic and optical sensors and data processing, signal processing of downloaded external tactical data, the launch and control of torpedoes, missiles and countermeasures, external communications and navigation. The communications suite includes satellite and extra-long-frequency acoustic links.

Sagem Défense Sécurité has been contracted to supply the DAS surface detection system which comprises one radar mast and two optronic masts and integrates a passive electromagnetic detection sensor.

TORPEDOES

The submarine has four 533mm torpedo tubes with water ram weapon discharge and accommodates 18 torpedo and missiles in a mixed load.

The submarine will carry new heavyweight torpedoes. The Barracuda will be capable of deploying the Black Shark torpedo developed by DCN and WASS (Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subaquei). Black Shark is a dual-purpose, wire-guided torpedo which is fitted with Astra active / passive acoustic head and a multi-target guidance and control unit incorporating a counter-countermeasures system.

MISSILES

The Barracuda's anti-surface missile is an upgraded version of the SM39 Exocet missile which is launched from the torpedo tube. The Exocet, armed with a 165kg warhead, uses inertial cruise guidance and active radar homing in the terminal phase of flight. The missile travels at high subsonic speed, Mach 0.9, to a target range of 50km.

The new naval land attack cruise missile, Naval Scalp, developed by MBDA, can be fired from NATO standard 533mm torpedo tubes. Naval Scalp will enter service in 2012. The missile is derived from the Scalp EG and Storm Shadow air-launched missile.

The missile has long-range precision attack capability against targets at ranges up to 1,000km. Scalp has inertial guidance which is continuously updated in flight with digital terrain matching and GPS (Global Positioning System). An imaging infrared seeker and automatic target recognition provide terminal guidance.

The Scalp Naval version has a longer body than the air-launch version and the wings are extended from within the missile body after launch rather than being externally mounted. The missile is being developed for both submarine torpedo-tube ejection and surface ship vertical launch.
"The Barracuda incorporates a range of diving, safety and damage control technologies."

UNMANNED UNDERWATER VEHICLES

The Barracuda will be configured to enable a future back-fitting of Unmanned Underwater Vehicles (UUVs), although there are no current operational requirements for the installation of a UUV.

SONAR

Thales Underwater Systems has been selected as prime contractor for the sonar suite. The submarine is fitted with bow sonar wide-aperture flank sonar and towed sonar arrays.

Thales Underwater Systems has placed a contract on the Centre for Submarine Technology, a division of the UK MOD QinetiQ organisation, to carry out a feasibility study on the deployment of reelable thin line towed sonar arrays for the Barracuda class.

PROPULSION

The nuclear propulsion system is a new hybrid design providing electric propulsion for economical cruise speeds and turbo-mechanical propulsion for higher speeds. The power plant will be based on technologies developed for the 150MW K15 pressure water reactor installed in the Triomphant class submarine and the Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier.

Thermodyn of Le Creusot has been selected to provide the two turbo-generators and one propulsion turbine for each vessel.


............................................

""Maniots, known for their martial qualities, were the first to join the Greek liberation movement. The society called the Filiki Eteria ("Company of Friends") sent their representatives Perrevos and Chrisospathis to organize the Maniots. On March 17, 1821, 12,000 Maniots gathered in the church of Taxiarchs (Archangels) of Areopoli and declared war against the Ottoman Empire. The flag of the revolution was white with a blue cross in the center. On top of the flag there was a sign, "Victory or death". The Maniots were responsible for writing "Victory" and not "Freedom" on their banner since Mani was always free. On the bottom of the flag lied an ancient inscription, "With the shield or on the shield."
...........................................

Vesle the fool, if only youd post ACTUAL numbers, in Kursk alone half a million Germans died. Stop posting bullsh1t statistics.

--------------------------------------------

Fillin!
Lets stick to the topic please......Soviet-German War is well know and deacently published by
well respected Authors from all Nations.If the Truth irrtiates you then thats not my problem.
As for Kursk......Soviets lost 50% if ther total tank strenght.........eavn with such preparations
and Nummbers they had.If you dont know statistic is immportant in war,as well as deacent
Authors to write for future generations..........of wich some aparently cant read right.
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Now! Back to Turkey Vs. France please...............................

Turkish cuisine out-tastes French cuisine by a mile

I mean snails, frogs and turtles...