TRIPOLI (Reuters) - Libya and Italy will soon seal a deal worth "billions" to compensate for the European country's three-decade colonial rule, Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's influential son said on Thursday.

"In the next weeks, Libya will sign a deal with Italy on compensation for the colonial period. This deal ... amounts to billions," Saif al Islam told an official gathering in Tripoli.

Saif did not specify a currency when he mentioned the figure of billions.

The accord involves several projects including a motorway across Libya, education and clearing mines dating back to the colonial era, he said in a speech broadcast on state television.

In Rome, Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said he hoped a "friendship treaty" with Libya could be signed by the end of August.

An Italian Foreign Ministry spokesman said the negotiations "are at a good point but some important aspects have not yet been defined".

Italy, which ruled Libya from 1911 to 1943, has had difficult relations with Gaddafi since he took power in 1969.

In 1970, Gaddafi expelled Italian residents and confiscated their property. But ties have warmed in recent years and Rome, as Libya's main diplomatic interlocutor and trading partner in Europe, backed Tripoli's drive to mend fences with the West.

Both countries have long sought a deal on compensation for Italy's colonial policies, which included the deportation of thousands of Libyans to Italy.

Italy imports around 25 percent of its oil and 33 percent of its gas from Libya and has a strong business presence there.

Ties have been under pressure from the flow of illegal immigrants from Libya's coast to Italy's south, and the absence so far of any reparation payments.

In a separate compensation case, Saif said Tripoli proposed to Washington a "comprehensive" deal that links any payment for American victims of terror attacks to a settlement of claims by victims of a U.S. bombing campaign against Libya in 1986.

Libya made the condition of compensating the Libyans during talks with the United States, the latest round of which took place in the United Arab Emirates on Wednesday.

"We offered them a comprehensive deal putting all the cases in one package but we want them to compensate the Libyan victims of the U.S. strike. This is our condition and they must satisfy it," Saif said in his speech.

Libya said at least 40 people were killed, including Gaddafi's adopted daughter, when U.S. war planes bombed Tripoli and Benghazi in 1986 in retaliation for the bombing of a German disco frequented by U.S. servicemen that year blamed on Libya.

The pending legal issues include cases involving the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, the 1986 German disco bombing, as well as billions of dollars in damages to relatives of Americans killed in a 1989 suitcase bombing of a French airliner over Niger.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKL2467485920080724?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0




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only fair libya had to pay compensation to the innocent americans that it killed, that italy pays billions of compensation for all the libyans it killed...


its a two way street...


under such agreements, and recognition by italy of the mistreatment it inflicted, libya and italy can be future friends

truth is libya was gonna demand compensation from somewhere...qadhafi was forced to pay for lockerbie even though little to no evidence leads to libya....thus libya will demand compensation for all the injustices done to it

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we yet payed compensations just after WWII to the Senussi government of Libya, but I suppose you are too much young and brainwashed by your dicator's propaganda to know that


Kaddafi compensation claims are just a request for bribe

and Berlusconi is a fool in paying your dictator

but it is considered a bribe payed for oil rights and in exchange of increasing controls on the immigration issues

------------------------------------------------

LIBYA: RESPECT OUR RIGHTS TOO, REPATRIATES TO BERLUSCONI

(ANSAmed) - ROME, JULY 25 - A telegram to Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi to call for respect of the rights of the Italians repatriated from Libya and to ask for a meeting at the Italian government with a delegation of the association was sent by president of Association of Italians Repatriated from Libya (AIRL), Giovanna Ortu, after yesterday the son of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, Saif al-Islam, announced the forthcoming signing of an agreement with Italy for compensations amounting to billions and the prime minister confirmed that Rome and Tripoli are working `hard¿ to reach an agreement "by August 31". "In merit of Your statements on the forthcoming closing of the legal dispute with Libya with the same willingness which You have expressed last week to the Libyan prime minister and foreign minister, and from our modest position, we ask for equal dignity, certain that this time a delegation of the association will be granted a short meeting," the telegram reads. "A government which defines itself democratic cannot continue ignoring our appeals and remaining deaf to the legitimate demands of Italian citizens, while it is ready to pay billions to favour the demands of a dictator who accuse us of an occupation that happened almost one century ago for which Libya has been already compensated in 1956 and blackmails with the bogy of the illegal immigrants," Ortu says. In a statement, the president of AIRL estimates to three billion euro the compensations owed for the property confiscated from the Italians by Gaddafi in 1970, legitimate demands, Ortu states, in front of which "it would be unworthy that in the moment when the money for compensations amounting to billions are found for Libya there is no place in the budget for an allocation related to the compensations" owed to the repatriates. (ANSAmed).
2008-07-25 15:22


http://www.ansamed.info/en/news/ME01.@AM15212.html


ITALY-LIBYA: GOVT IGNORES RIGHTS OF REPATRIATED, ORTU (AIRL)

(ANSAmed) - ROME, AUGUST 7 - "This new government seems to be totally ignoring the legal rights of Italian citizens repatriated from Libya in 1970," Giovanna Ortu, the president of Association of Italians Repatriated from Libya (AIRL), writes in a letter addressing Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, who met today Libyàs Prime Minister al Baghdadi Ali Al Mahmoudi in the headquarters of the Italian Government. "Mr. President, we are referring to today's meeting with the Libyan prime minister in order to remind You, as on various occasions in the past weeks, that the accord with Libya, ever more necessary for the illegal immigrants emergency, cannot leave out of consideration an internal collateral provision on the final compensation of the repatriated for their goods confiscated by Gaddafi in 1970," the letter reads. "No commitment with this regard was made by the Government, which seems to be totally ignoring the legal rights of a too much punished group of people," Ortu sustains. "'We are expecting a formal confirmation of our repetitive requests for a meeting.'' (ANSAmed).
2008-08-07 18:18


http://www.ansamed.info/en/news/ME01.@AM18165.html


Daughters of Sicily: Eleonora Abbagnato



ITALY-LIBYA: BERLUSCONI-GADDAFI, MEETING ON IMMIGRATION



(ANSAmed) - ROME, JUNE 27 - The issue regarding the fight against illegal immigration was at the centre of the lightning visit which Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi paid in Libya today and during which he met Libyan leader Colonel Muammar Gaddafi. The talks, which lasted a little more than two hours and a half, took place in a tent on the sea coast in Sirte, 600 kilometres east of Tripoli. It was Berlusconi's first travel abroad for a bilateral meeting since his return to head of the government. As Italian Interior Minister Roberto Maroni had revealed, the visit was intended to discuss the implementation of an accord to fight illegal immigration, news agency AFP reported. The goal is to ''implement the accord signed in December 2007 on the common patrolling along the Libyan coasts,'' the Minister had said. The problem of the illegal immigration coming from the coasts of Libya is a strong conflict issue between Italy and the North African country. The agreement signed in December by Rome and Tripoli envisages mainly common patrols to fight against the trafficking of illegal immigrants. However, it has remained only on paper, while thousands of illegal immigrants continue going from the Libyan coasts to Europe. Italy and Libya have been negotiating for years a possible agreement on the compensations which Rome owes for the colonial period. The agreement should include the realisation, promised by Berlusconi himself in 2004, of a coast motorway across all over Libya, from the borders with Tunisia to the ones with Egypt, for some 3 billion euro. (ANSAmed).


http://www.ansamed.info/en/top/ME11.YAM19324.html

IMMIGRATION: LIBYA MUST EXECUTE AGREEMENT WITH ITALY, MARONI

(ANSAmed) - ROME, JULY 16 - "We must insist that Libya allows the implementation of the agreement signed with the Italian government", Interior Minister Roberto Maroni said, answering during question time in Parliament, to a point of order raised by the Lega party and remarking that "only through agreements" with other countries "we will stop illegal immigration". The Interior Minister explained that currently Italy "has bilateral agreements with 30 states, 14 of which facing the Mediterranean. And there are ongoing negotiations for a further 14 agreements, including Lebanon, Syria, Turkey, Ghana, Niger and Senegal, the countries which are more important for us". "But the most important agreement is the one with Libya, because the greatest flow of illegal immigrants of various nationalities comes from there," Maroni added. The agreement is "in force and envisages the use of six ships to patrol the Libyan territorial waters". Italy, Maroni continued, "is ready and Prime Minister Berlusconi has met Gaddafi to obtain the green light for the agreement, which unfortunately has not been given yet" and which will enable "to resolve once and for all the matter of immigration to Lampedusa". As regards Frontex - the EU agency for border control - Maroni said that it is a "good initiative", even if it has not been "very effective in the Mediterranean". "I raised the matter in the latest European Council, because the agency does not give in terms of results the performances which we would like to achieve", Maroni concluded. (ANSAmed).
2008-07-16 17:01


http://www.ansamed.info/en/news/ME01.@AM17010.html

2008-07-25 13:40
Italy and Libya close to accord
Billion- dollar pact could be signed 'by end of August'

(ANSA) - Rome, July 24 - Italy and Libya could sign a historic friendship and cooperation accord resolving issues related to Italy's colonial occupation of the North African country by the end of August, Premier Silvio Berlusconi has said. Speaking to journalists on Thursday evening, the premier confirmed news leaked to Libyan television earlier in the day that the two countries were close to reaching an agreement after more than a decade of negotiations.

The accord would finally resolve issues related to Italy's colonial occupation of the North African country in 1911 and the expulsion of some 20,000 Italians by Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi in 1970.

Gaddafi's son, Seif al-Islam, told Libyan television that the two countries were likely to sign a ''billion dollar'' agreement in the next few weeks.

The accord includes various projects, including the Italian construction of a large coastal highway costing an estimated six billion euros that would link Libya with Egypt and Tunisia.

Italy would also carry out an extensive operation to clear land mines from the country that Tripoli claims were planted by the Italian occupiers.

The Libyan leader has long demanded compensation for damages caused during Italy's occupation of the country.

The 1970 expulsions came a year after Gaddafi came to power in a coup. Most of the Italians had been in Libya since the colonial period.

The two countries have struck a number of agreements regarding energy supply and combating illegal immigration.

Italy is Libya's biggest trade partner and 25% of Italian oil imports come from the North African country.

Immigration continues to cause friction between Rome and Tripoli due to the large number of illegal immigrants still arriving on Italian shores from Libya despite a cooperation agreement to contain the phenomenon.

On Thursday Berlusconi said six Italian coastguard craft were ready to start patrolling Libya's 800-km coastline to stop migrants from setting off on the dangerous voyage, but they were still waiting for a green light from Tripoli.

Photo: Gaddafi and Berlusconi during a meeting in Libya in June.


http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2008-07-25_125217430.html


IMMIGRATION: DEAL WITH LIBYA TO STOP IMMIGRANTS, MARONI

(ANSAmed) - CASAL DI PRINCIPE (CASERTA), JULY 31 - The landings on Lampedusa will be resolved almost a hundred percent when the agreement with Libya which envisages joint patrol of the Libyan waters enters into force, Interior Minister, Roberto Maroni, said during a news conference in Casal di Principe. "Unfortunately the landings could not be avoided by a decree law, but through launch of the agreement with Libya which envisages patrol of the waters of the North African country, but this could not be done without the agreement of Libya; when we have its agreement there will not be landings on Lampedusa anymore," the minister explained. Maroni also said that the government is committed in this direction. "Prime Minister Berluconi went to Libya a few days ago to speak about that with Gaddafi, Foreign Minister Frattini is very active, everything we could do we did it, we have been already examining the ports where to put the bases," he reminded. If Libya gives a go-ahead in September, he added, "we must expect a very difficult August". As regards the illegal immigrants who land, the minister continued, "we cannot do than welcome them and this is the first stage, but then there is a second stage, if they do not have the right to stay in Italy they will return at home". (ANSAmed).
2008-07-31 19:32


http://www.ansamed.info/en/news/ME01.@AM19305.html


ITALY-LIBYA: DESIRE TO CLOSE THE PAGE OF THE PAST, ECONOMIST

(ANSAmed) - ROME, JULY 31 - "After years of embarrassing negotiations, Italy and Libya seem to be ready to settle the legacy, short but particularly bitter, of the Italian colonial adventure in the North African country, which fascist dictator Benito Mussolini liked to call the "fourth shore of the empiré". This is the beginning of an article on the relations between Rome and Tripoli to be published in tomorrow's issue of British weekly The Economist, of which ANSA obtained a preview. Although Italy is Libyàs major trade partner, The Economist writes, "the mutual resentment over the ancient colonial issues is still strong. Tens of thousands of Libyans died in the concentration camps set up by Italy to host the persons responsible for a series of rebellions in the 32 years of occupation", between 1911 and 1943. "In 1970, in turn, Colonel Muammar Gaddafi expelled from Libya 20,000 Italians," The Economist writes. "They insist it is them and not the Libyans who have the right to compensations. Recently the relations between the two countries were further jeopardised by the arrival on Italian territory, mostly on the Sicilian island of Lampedusa, of illegal immigrants who set sail from the Libyan ports". Last July 24, the weekly newspaper recalls, one of Gaddafìs sons, Saif Al-Islam, announced the upcoming signing of an agreement to compensate Libya, which would reportedly receive from Italy "billions" including in the form of infrastructure such as the coastal motorway. "While Italian diplomats hurried to decrease the Libyan expectations, their prudence was suddenly dispelled by Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, who said he hopes to sign the agreement by the end of August." According to The Economist, even if an agreement on the compensations is achieved, "it is not certain that Tripoli will be capable of stemming the exodus of illegal immigrants towards Italy". Moreover, the Italian public opinion might not understand the need to pay compensations to an already wealthy nation with big oil deposits. Especially as - in contrast with other former colonial powers such as France or Britain - Italy has no particular regrets of its past of occupier of Libya. (ANSAmed).
2008-07-31 18:45


http://www.ansamed.info/en/news/ME01.@AM18440.html



Paola Lauretano


FROM A MORAL POINT OF VIEW IT IS DESPICABLE A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY AS LIBYA SEARCHING FOR BRIBE FROM A FORMER COLONIAL POWER FOR PERSECUTING OTHER POOR THIRD WORLD PEOPLE AS BLACK AFRICAN IMMIGRANTS

OF COURSE AS THOSE ARE NOT ARABS AND MUSLIMS THE ATTITUDE OF LIBYANS CAN BE UNDERSTAND


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LIBYA: SITUATION OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS FOLLOWED CLOSELY


(ANSAmed) - GENEVA, JANUARY 18 - The humanitarian organisations follow closely the situation in Libya after the announcement of the decision of the government in Tripoli to expel "all illegal immigrants" from the country. "We have not received information of important developments on the site yet, but we hope that if such an initiative is carried out it would fully respect the rights of the refugees, the asylum seekers and the international humanitarian principles," William Spindler, spokesman for the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), said in Geneva. "We are following the situation closely," he added. The International Organisation for Migration (IOM) also observes the situation. "We cannot confirm Libyàs announcement yet. We know that in the past Libya has already carried out operations for the deportation of illegal immigrants, mostly of sub-Saharan origin. We can say that such deportation measures will not resolve the problem and that they are carried out in regular intervals," IOM spokesman Jean-Philippe Chauzy said. (ANSAmed).


2008-01-18 18:12



http://www.ansamed.info/en/news/ME03.YAM18115.html


Libya: 600 Eritreans refugees fear deportation



ROME, 4 September the 2007 – They deserted the army and escaped war. They crossed the Sahara desert and thrown themselves in the sea in order to reach Italy and ask for political asylum. But today they are detained in Libya and fear deportation. They are 600 Eritreans refugees detained at Misratah. Collateral effects of the European externalization of border patrolling.


Fortress Europe and Habeshia, put in contact with the prisoners of Misratah. 450 Eritreans have been detained for more than one year. But the last month another 200 people were arrested, during sea patrols as during police raids in Tripoli. They are detained in a “transit centre”, waiting for their deportation in Eritrea by airplane. A hundred of women and a fifty of children are also detained. Among them two babies born in jail. The child of four months, arrested with her mother, suffers from dermatitis, she has not got any vaccine and she hasn’t any medical assistance. They sleep on the pavement, there’s no bed, the head beside the feet of the neighbour. They are amassed until seventy people in one rooms of six meters for eight. In the rooms the warmth is intolerable; there are no fans, and the air is weighted down from the fetid exhalations coming from the clogged baths, which pour on the pavements. The main health problems of the prisoners are dermatitis, scabies, pulmonary diseases, asthma, gastro-enteritis and already three cases of T.B. Two men have been hospitalized. But for the third one there were no place at the Misratah hospital and so he is still living in the detention centre, at close contact with the 600 people who fear new infections, especially for the children. During the first weeks of detentions several women have been raped from the agents. And at least seven people have been hospitalized for nervous breakdowns.

Witnesses collected from Fortress Europe and Habeshia told about three kinds of arrests. The majority of people have been intercepted in sea by the Libyan Coastguard, while sailing towards Sicily. The others have been arrested while waiting the boat to depart, or even arrested on the road, or during police raids, in Tripoli. Someone told us he were arrested still in pyjama and lost all its properties at home. Many of the detained Eritreans are refugees under the protection of Unhcr. According to Unhcr office in Tripoli, 114 of them have got a refugee status in the Unhcr camps in Ethiopia and Sudan. All the others however could apply for asylum, being the majority of them deserter of the Eritrean army, escaping war against Ethiopia.

They all risk the expulsion. Libya would have already signed an agreement with Eritrea. Unhcr has recently interviewed 62 women and gave the political asylum to 49 of them, and is now asking the international community for their resettlement. Four Countries have answered, including Italy. But nobody knows what will happen to the others 550 Eritreans, who every day fear more their repatriation.

Libya has already repatriated Eritreans, in 2006 and in 2004, more times, also on a flight paid from Italy. The 27th August 2004 one of the airplane was diverted from the deported Eritreans aboard and landed in Khartoum, in Sudan. 60 of the 75 passengers were recognized refugees from Unhcr in Sudan. In Eritrea they would be arrested as the 223 people deported from Malta between September and October 2002. Once in Eritrean, they were arrested and tortured, firstly detained in the prison of Adi Abeito and then, as a result of an escape attempt, in the jail of maximum security of Dahlak Kebir, where some of them are reported to be killed.

Join the Amnesty International campaign



http://fortresseurope.blogspot.com/2006/01/libya-600-eritreans-refugees-fear.html


IMMIGRATION: SERIOUS CRIMES IN LIBYA, FORTRESS EUROPE REPORT




(ANSAmed) - ROME, OCTOBER 29 - Some 60,000 men, women and children are detained every year in the 20 Libyan migrant detention centres, with a very high number of deaths, 1,579 dead in the desert and 2,483 in the Sicilian Channel. These are the figures released by Fortress Europe, which published today a report in which accuses Libya of "serious crimes against the emigrants arrested on the route towards Lampedusà. The report 'Escape from Tripoli', released by Infinito Edizioni, gathers also '83 direct testimonies of tortures, ''rapes and homicides committed by the Libyan police in the migrant detention centres". The witnesses declared in the report that "they underwent arbitrary arrests, detentions without trials in inhuman and degrading conditions. The immigrants also reported mass deportations to the Sahara desert, collective rejections in the sea and repatriation of refugees, even on the 47 flights from Tripoli financed by Italy". These are reports which, a note explains, confirm and update the serious accusations of the previous report on the migrants' rights in Libya by 'Human Rights Watch', released in September 2006. Gabriele Del Grande, founder of Fortress Europe and editor of the report, said that "the European Union becomes an accomplice of the crimes committed by Libyan authorities against the migrants and the refugees arrested on the route to Sicily, since it will proceed as of 2008 to the collective rejection in the sea of all the boats to be intercepted by the European Agency for the External Borders Control (Frontex), thus sending thousands of men, women and children to rot for months or years in Libyan prisons, to be repatriated in the end, even if they are refugees.(ANSAmed).



2007-10-29 18:07



http://www.ansamed.info/en/news/ME03.YAM18061.html


Deportations from Libya 'illegal'

Libya is a major staging posts for Africans wanting to go to
Europe

Libya would be violating international and domestic law if it goes ahead with
plans to deport an estimated 1m illegal immigrants, Human Rights Watch says.
The New York-based group said Libyan law prohibited deportation to countries
where refugees may face persecution. A HRW spokesman told the BBC the Libyan
leader may be reacting to pressure to stop Africans trying to reach Europe.
The BBC's Rana Jawad in the capital, Tripoli, says illegal immigrants are the
backbone of the country's economy. The European Union has urged North African
countries to help stop the northward flow of African migrants. Last month,
Italy and Libya agreed to set up joint coastal patrols. 'Troubling' The mass
expulsion plan was announced just as Libyan leader Colonel Muamar Gadaffi
arrived in Burkina Faso for the annual summit of West African states, which
starts on Friday. The official news agency said there would be no exceptions
to the government policy of repatriating
unauthorised immigrants. "This news is very troubling," HRW's Fred Abrahams
told the BBC's Network Africa programme. "Many of the did come without papers
for economic reasons, but amongst them are also legitimate refugees." He gave
Eritrea, Ethiopia, Somalia and Sudan as examples of countries that some people
were fleeing. Our correspondent says this is not the first time the North
African country has threatened such a move. Many illegal immigrants are
unlikely to take the announcement seriously, she says. Last year, the prime
minister announced that all workers had two months to either secure a contract
and legalise their status, or leave the country, but in the event nothing
happened. Mr Abrahams said the government should work to regulate the illegal
immigrants and introduce asylum laws.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7193737.stm



Carolina Di Domenico

I ask formally that Arabs pay compensation for their colonisation of North Africa, the Sudan and anywhere else Arabs are not from. It is only fair, they haven't exactly ruled those lands very well and they are not from there.

Siege of Tobruk - One German POW said: "I cannot understand you Australians. In Poland, France, and Belgium, once the tanks got through the soldiers took it for granted that they were beaten. But you are like demons. The tanks break through and your infantry still keep fighting." Rommel wrote of seeing "a batch of some fifty or sixty Australian prisoners ... marched off close behind us—immensely big and powerful men, who without question represented an elite formation of the British Empire, a fact that was also evident in battle."

''I ask formally that Arabs pay compensation for their colonisation of North Africa, the Sudan and anywhere else Arabs are not from. It is only fair, they haven't exactly ruled those lands very well and they are not from there. ''



no that goes for u whites in north america, sanada and south america and australia and south africa etc.... etc..


i will explain... arabs do not rule in north africa....majority of ppl in morroco, algeria r berbers, not arabs,,, except these berbers choose to speak arabic, choose to adopt arab culture and choose to be in arab league...


only arab majority states in north africa r in tunisia, libya and egypt....

we will anaylse these states...neither states even hav their orginal pops in any abundance tunisia, libya and egypt over the centries hav been colonies, for the romans, persians, greeks, phoencians, turks, italians, french and british...the original pops hav been so diluted they no longer exist...


arabs took libya, tunisia and egypt over from previous 5 or 6 colonisers...who do we pay compensation to exacly loool



algeria and morroco r differant stories, but then again their orginal pops r in power and hav been since they gained independence, if they so choose to adopt and speak arab culture, good for them...

as for the whites, they usually masacred the indiginous ppls, and take their land, kicking them out or using them as slaves...these indiginous ppls still exist...and r in demand of compensation, as for the case of arab states, entirely differant matter, middle east has been the land of empires since god knows when... their r no pops to claim this is their orginal terrirtory or that is theres, hell the assyrian lands over lap the kurdish lands, the israeli lands r inactual historical fact belong to the phoencians whose ancestors can be traced to tunisia and even cyprus and lebanon etc... etc..., but white europeans invading a virgin land and killing its inhabitants is another story...

NEXT

@Mario.... first of all plz dopnt play me as a fool...compensation was payed to an unelected, western installed dictator...u could hav agreed an unfair and unreasonable amount since king sanussi was :

1. not even libya (he was algerian)
2. Libyans never chose him to be leader
3. he never lived or hav and family who lived in libya before
4. his govt cabnet and himself were all installed by european leaders

so how is it fair u organise a compensation deal with this man, who is no more libyan or chosen by libyans than some eskimo in the north pole.... this is how u think u can play us as fools looool


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I couldn't be bothered to read the articles, can someone who has read them tell us if a specific amount has been expressed? Like $1 bl or $10 bl.

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LatinAmerica, China, and Africa. From all these continents, under whose eyes Europe today raises up her tower of opulence, there has flowed out for centuries toward that same Europe diamonds and oil, silk and cotton, wood and exotic products. Europe is literally the creation of the Third World. The wealth which smothers her is that which was stolen from the underdeveloped peoples. The ports of Holland, the docks of Bordeaux and Liverpool were specialized in the Negro slave trade, and owe their renown to millions of deported slaves. So when we hear the head of a European state declare with his hand on his heart that he must come to the aid of the poor underdeveloped peoples, we do not tremble with gratitude. Quite the contrary; we say to ourselves: "It's a just reparation which will be paid to us."

Frantz Fanon (The Wretched of the Earth)




"Zur H�lle mit der EU!"

Berber nationalists want to brake up from Arabs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



---------------------------------
Invaders tried to destroy the Persian identity, but they have failed for the past 2500 years.

we r talking about libya here,

Algeria and morroco r Berber Majority state 95% berber

Tunisia and Libya r Arab majority states 95% arab (infact tunisia is 100% arab maybe a few who migrated during the algeria war, but no actual berber towns)


Algeria and morroco had never in its history even pre-independence history seen any such racially motivated revolt against arabs, mainly cus there r too few in any arabs in power to over throw...morrocan and algerian berbers r themselves arabised by the very language they speak...look at the doc u posted...its a alergian arabised berber debating with a berber from the mountain regions, a area which was never arabised....


arabised berbers want to hold on to their arab culture and language as much as non arabised berbers who want to hold on to their berber culture and language... why?


well its not an issue of race...arabised berbers hav for generations over centries been speaking arabic and hav arab culture...its very close to them and to their roots...they simply see themselves as algerians...


Iran however is a differant story, its only 50% persian, and the rest as r numerous as the colours of the rain bow...with Azeri turks having most power in govt...

whilst these north african states r clearly devided between berber majority morroco - Algeria, and arab majority Libya - Tunisia, hell all u gotta do is listen to the accents...clear distinction between the arab and berber majorities...personally i dnt understand much algerian or morrocan arabic....its too mixed with berber (i do speak Azimgh myself, but the berbers in morroco and algeria speak a very differant dialect to the few berbers in libya), whilst libyan and tunisian arabic is as clear as say syrian arabic (differant accent ofcourse, but as easy to understand)





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<img

we r talking about libya here,

Algeria and morroco r Berber Majority state 95% berber

Tunisia and Libya r Arab majority states 95% arab (infact tunisia is 100% arab maybe a few who migrated during the algeria war, but no actual berber towns)


Algeria and morroco had never in its history even pre-independence history seen any such racially motivated revolt against arabs, mainly cus there r too few in any arabs in power to over throw...morrocan and algerian berbers r themselves arabised by the very language they speak...look at the doc u posted...its a alergian arabised berber debating with a berber from the mountain regions, a area which was never arabised....


arabised berbers want to hold on to their arab culture and language as much as non arabised berbers who want to hold on to their berber culture and language... why?


well its not an issue of race...arabised berbers hav for generations over centries been speaking arabic and hav arab culture...its very close to them and to their roots...they simply see themselves as algerians...


Iran however is a differant story, its only 50% persian, and the rest as r numerous as the colours of the rain bow...with Azeri turks having most power in govt...

whilst these north african states r clearly devided between berber majority morroco - Algeria, and arab majority Libya - Tunisia, hell all u gotta do is listen to the accents...clear distinction between the arab and berber majorities...personally i dnt understand much algerian or morrocan arabic....its too mixed with berber (i do speak Azimgh myself, but the berbers in morroco and algeria speak a very differant dialect to the few berbers in libya), whilst libyan and tunisian arabic is as clear as say syrian arabic (differant accent ofcourse, but as easy to understand)
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Well what proof do you have that say Berbers are a miority in Libya? All the sites I have been to involving the berber percentage said that libya was "Berber-Arab", thats exactly what they said about Akgeria and Morroca.

NOw if your gonna bring up Iran, Most people dont know where the mullahs mostly come from,but lets just pretend that most of the people in the government are azeri decent... This would just prove that the Azeris are persified (since there not changing anything). The language is still Persian,the national holiday is still persian,The culture of Iran is still Persian.... So this proves that Persification works better then Arabization

And for Persians being only 51%, well no thats not the case... We are 65% of the country including subgroups.

(READ ARTICLE BELOW)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/groups.htm
By 2008 the main ethnic groups in Iran remained the Persians (65 percent). Other groups were the Azerbaijani Turks (16 percent), Kurds (7 percent), Lurs (6 percent), Arabs (2 percent), Baluchis (2 percent), Turkmens (1 percent), Turkish tribal groups such as the Qashqai (1 percent), and non-Persian, non-Turkic groups such as Armenians, Assyrians, and Georgians (less than 1 percent).

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Faramarz Aslani - Age ye rooz

''Ethnic groups:
Arab-Berber 99%, European less than 1%
note: almost all Algerians are Berber in origin, not Arab; the minority who identify themselves as Berber live mostly in the mountainous region of Kabylie east of Algiers; the Berbers are also Muslim but identify with their Berber rather than Arab cultural heritage; Berbers have long agitated, sometimes violently, for autonomy; the government is unlikely to grant autonomy but has offered to begin sponsoring teaching Berber language in schools ''


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ag.html

thus i would say its the algeria berbers who hav been arabised... since alomst the entire nation isactually berber, where as azeris make up around 30% of iran,

where as Tunsia and libya:

''Ethnic groups:
Arab 98%, European 1%, Jewish and other 1% ''


Ethnic groups:
Berber and Arab 97%, other 3% (includes Greeks, Maltese, Italians, Egyptians, Pakistanis, Turks, Indians, and Tunisians)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ts.html


berber-arab mean mixed berber arab ppls... as in the pop is not segregated in to berber speaking ppls and arab speaking they r mixed.

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Sigh,Its like am talking to a wall.

"Arab-berber" (whatever that means) is used for both Algeria and Libya, so how do you know that Arabs are a minority or majority in these two countries? The same goes for Berbers, how do you know if their a minority or a majority, since the Article just mentions "Arab and berber"?

It wouldnt be surprising if the Berbers were a majority, since thats their original homeland.

Btw, (get this threw your thick skull)

And for Persians being only 51%, well no thats not the case... We are 65% of the country including subgroups.

(READ ARTICLE BELOW)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/groups.htm
By 2008 the main ethnic groups in Iran remained the Persians (65 percent). Other groups were the Azerbaijani Turks (16 percent), Kurds (7 percent), Lurs (6 percent), Arabs (2 percent), Baluchis (2 percent), Turkmens (1 percent), Turkish tribal groups such as the Qashqai (1 percent), and non-Persian, non-Turkic groups such as Armenians, Assyrians, and Georgians (less than 1 percent).


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Faramarz Aslani - Age ye rooz

col. qaddafi himself is a mixed arab - berber, so am i, and so is 95% of libya...




very few ''berber'' areas exist in north africa... well either they live in remote mountain villages or roam the deserts in nomadic tribes......



morroco is the only proper berber state... interms of them being a large part of the pop actually speaking Azimigh not arabic... Algeria is a close second... whilst libya and tunisia hav too few berbers, infact we had as many itlainas living in libya as berbers... most r considered arab (but racially r berber-arab-(even turkish) mixed)



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loool angry how do i know there r few berbers in libya!?!?!?!


maybe habibi cus i live in libya... and i know.... on that map u see the orange blot in libya the biggest one... that is of a berber town called 'Zwarah' it has a berber poppulation of around 20,000, and arab poppulation of around 10,000...


that town zwarah is the biggest concentration of berber speaking ppls in libya... and they r only 20,000 this is how i know... zwarah in the rest of libya there r too few berbers at all...


and also u see the map again the differant colours they represent differant berber ppls, who speak DIFFERANT languages, hell the blue one in the desert r of a berber pop called the Tureag...who r BLACK, whilst the pink berber one r mountain berbers with their own loanguage and they r as pale as a polish person.... whilst the blots that r orange again r of another differant berber ppls, who r nomads and share common features with arabs...


berbers of north africa r as far varried in language and culture and customs as the semites in the middle east, i.e arabs and asssyrians and jews etc....

same ethnic group but differant language and culture


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also berbers were natibe to north africa but they remained in very small numbers, they were nomads or mountaineers, there r no significant berber cities in existance, as well as the fact that the coast line of north africa has never really been under berber control for over 3 millenia... it was ruled by greeks, pheocians, romans, arabs, turks, french, itlains, then arabs again... berbers always remaind in the background, either roaming the deserts or in the mountains...


only time berbers truely made a name for themselves was when they allied with the arabs and invaded spain and colonised it for 800 years.... that is the only historcial count of berbers actually leaving their isolated desert and nomadic life styles...


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@Swes

why, if you ignore the Senussi govern of your country, could not italian Republic ignore facts concerning the monarchy and the fascist governments ?


Melissa Satta

because facsim was invented by italians, mussonlin was italian, the crinimal who commited the crime was italian, and mussoloni got into power with the support of italians

VS

Sanussi who wasnt libyan, who was installed by europeans, who didnt suffer the crimes of the italians, neither did his family or ancestors, nor did he come into power with the support of libyans...

thus why is it fair that some minor 'compensation' is paid out to this guy (not even libyan), who used it to build his palace...he was a token front man, so to say here libya we paid u 'compensation', we maybe from the desert but we aint stupid....





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General Graziani, has given a physical and moral description of Omar Mukhtar, which is not lacking in admiration: "Of medium height, stout, with white hair, beard and mustache. Omar was endowed with a quick and lively intelligence; was knowledgeable in religious matters, and revealed an energetic and impetuous character, unselfish and uncompromising; ultimately, he remained very religious and poor, even though he had been one of the most important Senusist figures."

From the beginning of 1931 the measures taken by Graziani took their toll on the Senusist resistance.


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I guess all modern libyans should be grateful to Italy and Marshal Rodolfo Graziani, Marchese di Neghelli, who fought and defeated the egyptian-supported algerian-senussite invaders of Libya and their field commander Omar Mukhtar



Anna Galiena & Elisabetta Canalis

also berbers were natibe to north africa but they remained in very small numbers, they were nomads or mountaineers, there r no significant berber cities in existance, as well as the fact that the coast line of north africa has never really been under berber control for over 3 millenia... it was ruled by greeks, pheocians, romans, arabs, turks, french, itlains, then arabs again... berbers always remaind in the background, either roaming the deserts or in the mountains...

Other then the fact you completely missed the point I made, this is what apologists for European colonisation of North America say. The Berbers were these uncivilised people who never had cities there so Arabs going in and colonising the land to make it better is OK.

Good work.

Siege of Tobruk - One German POW said: "I cannot understand you Australians. In Poland, France, and Belgium, once the tanks got through the soldiers took it for granted that they were beaten. But you are like demons. The tanks break through and your infantry still keep fighting." Rommel wrote of seeing "a batch of some fifty or sixty Australian prisoners ... marched off close behind us—immensely big and powerful men, who without question represented an elite formation of the British Empire, a fact that was also evident in battle."

However Rzech you missed the point entirely



The berbers did have cities, their land was occupied by "white" people such as the Vandals,Greeks and Romans, The Arab Conquest merely took lands that were occupied by a belligerent such as rome away.


Also irony of Ironies, you are arguing with a BERBER over arabism, Swedo is more a berber and less an arab , where I am less if not nil berber and more arab.





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Go not quietly into the night, be not afraid know that we will not forget you.

How is any of this Ironic? Both of you have failed to see my point. An Arab complaining about colonisation is as stupid as a European complaining about it.

So exactly have you both actually sat down and refused to accept that point?

Siege of Tobruk - One German POW said: "I cannot understand you Australians. In Poland, France, and Belgium, once the tanks got through the soldiers took it for granted that they were beaten. But you are like demons. The tanks break through and your infantry still keep fighting." Rommel wrote of seeing "a batch of some fifty or sixty Australian prisoners ... marched off close behind us—immensely big and powerful men, who without question represented an elite formation of the British Empire, a fact that was also evident in battle."