No need to explain more the title is self explanatory

Just a comment , in my opinion the recognition of those areas as independent states was imminent It would be interesting to see the reaction of the west now

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

yes its true although the bill isnt official yet as the president hasnt formally decided on this matter yet, but i am sure its only a matter of time now.

"Russian Lawmakers Vote to Recognize Breakaway Georgia Regions

Both houses of Russia’s parliament unanimously called on President Dmitry Medvedev to recognize the independence of two breakaway Georgian regions that sparked Russia’s first foreign military incursion since the Soviet era.

Boris Gryzlov, speaker of the State Duma, the lower house, told reporters in Moscow today that he expects Medvedev to respond to parliament’s appeals regarding South Ossetia and Abkhazia “in a very short time,” the Interfax news service reported.

Medvedev, who will make the final decision on whether to recognize the territories, has said Russia supports the regions’ decisions on their future status, though he has stopped short of formally recognizing them. U.S. President George W. Bush has insisted the regions remain part of Georgia.

The regions, which broke away from Georgia in wars in the early 1990s, have cited Kosovo’s Feb. 17 declaration of independence from Serbia as a precedent for their aspirations. Their status is key to the future stability of the Caucasus, a restless area fraught with ancient rivalries that has been a Russian security concern for centuries. For Georgia President Mikheil Saakashvili, the loss of the two provinces would be a crushing personal defeat and a blow to his country’s identity."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=a6FnOavAFN6U&refer=europe



http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/
Siv: Flame wars are great, They are turn based

lol sorry sorry my news was out of date, I just read Medvedev decided today to make it official



http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/
Siv: Flame wars are great, They are turn based

Russia literally "Cyprus-ed" Georgia

as putin sais

I will Cyprus you!



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This tactic although well expected it has its drawbacks though ,one of its main drawbacks is that now Russia cannot object anymore to the recognition of Kosovo by other countries and therefore this fact may somehow deterioriate Russian relations with Serbia

As far as Greece is concerned I think that now is much easier for us to recognize Kosovo since Serbian pro western government has alligned its self to the Western allies, so the risk to damage our relations with Serbia and Russia will be limited especially if we recognize at the same time S. Osetia and Abhazia

It strongly reminds me of a chess game, by recognizing Kosovo Greece will satisfy United States and the Albanians who contrary to the Serbs have increased their geopolitical value in the Balkans by having 2 independent states and another one with a strong minority which actively controls their politics , (of course im talking about FYROM) which practically means that later on the Albanians might try to influence Gruevsky to show a more flexible stance to Greece and cease his provocations.

On the other hand by recognizing S Osetia and Abhazia we definetely satisfy Russia and we avoid any possible drawbacks which may have been caused by the recognition of Kosovo

The best policy now for Greece would be literaly to recognize everybody at least thats what I think.

Of course this will deteriorate our relations with Georgia but Georgia is an unimportant player of the game since our first priority is to maintain good and balanced relationships with the big powers, If United States dissaproves our recognition of S Osetia and Abhazia we will have now the argument that we recognized Kosovo respecting the self determination of the Albanians  , so we should do the same for S Osetia and Abhazia who do not consider themselves to be under Georgian authority



ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

Murad, there are some striking differences though

for instance in this case Georgia was the aggressor and Russia intervened to save their brothers who didnt consider themselves to be under Georgian authority something logical to me

In Cyprus Turkey was the aggressor, who attacked an independent country with "bravery" since a 70,000,000 state fought really bravely against a few thousands i must admit in order to protect a Turkish Cypriot minority

Personally speaking i consider  Turkey a state consisted of cowards , historically speaking even the Ottoman Empire was fighting against weak unarmed nations and only then they were able to win wars, the same happened with Cyprus since i consider it the utmost point of cowardice to boast that you won a few thousands almost unarmed fighters.

Moreover the weak Greek revolutionary army many times humiliated the powerful Ottoman army which means that Turkey is not in a position to win even a few bunches of organized rebels as is the case with RKK who managed to humiliate your powerful army for many years and they are still doing so, the conclusion to be reached is that Turkey does not have a chance against a very strong and well prepared for war opponent

The Greek army smashed Kemal too but we lost the war only when our allies betrayed us and refused us the opportunity to give us weapons and ammo, on the contrary the Russian Bolseviks were giving Kemal howitzers and heavy weapons , we had also an internal fighting about politics which affected the organization of our army (king supporters versus Venizelos supporters) otherwise you wouldnt stand a chance against our army.

thats for your above comment

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

"The Greek army smashed Kemal too but we lost the war only when our allies betrayed us and refused us the opportunity to give us weapons and ammo,"

is this what they teach kids in greece? Tsk Tsk.. sad.

Bolsheviks Helped The Turks? now that one, was a great joke on your part, i must say your one hilarious sad fawk. i wish more of you greeks were as funny as this loser.

again like all greeks, you always blame others for things negative about greece. accept it for **** sake

1. Greece couldnt do jack **** to turkey in 74, who is the coward?
2. Greece smashed ataturk? again if this is thought in you school it is very sad. Greeecegot BEOTCHSLAPPED OUT of Turkish lands
3. after greeks landed on Izmir

"The first couple months of the occupation was described to American senate by James Harbord, whose mission was to determine the situation of Armenian Christians in the Ottoman Empire:

The Greek troops and the local Greeks who had joined them in arms started a general massacre of the Mussulmen population in which the officials and Ottoman officers and soldiers as well as the peaceful inhabitants were indiscriminately put to death and subjected to forms of torture and savagery worthy of the Inquisition and constituting in any case a barbarous violation of the laws of humanity. Naturally the outcry was great among the Mussulmen population"



yea...


typical greek respons "BUT UMM! OW MY GAAWD WE WERE OUT OF AMMUNITION AND FOOD! and MAKEUPS AND DILDOS TO SATISFY GREEK SOLDIErS AND KEEP THEM FIGHTING.. funny thing is if what ur saying is true (which is not) isnt is kind of stupid to think greeks depended on her allies for everything including ammunition, food, water, make up, dildo? too much to ask for aint it?


as Mr. Putin said "I will Cyprus You"



and it happened, Russia took over regions of abkhazia and south ossetia and they are recognized by Russia, sounds very similar..1974? Georgia attacked the natives, as Cyprus attacked and massacred Turks living in cyprus, Turkey bitch slapped cyprus and Greece the big daddy sat and watched his son Cyprus being torn apart. i dont see a damn diffrence.



CONCLUSION, ITS ALWAYS THE GREEKS WHO ARE ALONE AND NOBODY EVEN HER ALLIES DOESNT HELP THEM WHILE EVERYONE ELSE INCLUDING COMMIES AND OTHER EVIL PEOPLE HELPED TURKEY. sad fawks. i really do hope and pray one day you actually realise the truth that you and your country is a loser.




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dude , have you ever read history? how many battles did kemal and the Turkish irregulars loose before they were forced to fight the Greek army  at Sangarios river?

where did you find your heavy howitzers and weapons to fight for?

How can possibly an army  fight without food and ammunition especially when the opponents army has both including heavy weapons?

what does the interference or not of Greece has to do with the fact it is you who are boasting all the times like cowards that you defeated a few thousands unarmed fighters?

what does the behavior of the Greek army to the muslim population has to do with the above things that I said?

maybe you should think of the above questions and then you will figure out who is the hilarious and the looser

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

why did Greeks army invade Turkey without proper ammunition and supplies, and depend on her allies?

why?

Greece is a loser and depend on countries even today..

yes we were supported by evil commies the bolsheviks and Greece by her mighty and angel like self tried to defend the hellenic republic and save Europe from the evil Ataturk Hordes.

you are right, i am sorry i have ever doubted you.

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"So generous was the recognition in theory of Armenian claims that the Armenian and Greek population of the new State was actually outnumbered by Moslem inhabitants. Here was justice and much more. It existed however upon paper only. Already nearly a year before, in January 1920, the Turks had attacked the French in Cilicia, driven them out of the Marash district and massacred nearly fifty thousand Armenian inhabitants. In May Bolshevik troops invaded and subjugated the Republic of Erivan. In September, by collusion between the Bolsheviks and Turks, Erivan was delivered to the Turkish Nationalists"


http://www.armenian-genocide.org/churchill.html>


this is a website i just found read that carefully greek, why would bolsheviks helped a country they fought before?


please dont change the subject to armenian genocide and stay on topic.
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we had the proper ammunition and supplies till the allies refused to resupply us, the allies did not fight for us we did the fight and because they didnt want our presence to Asia Minor and since they wanted to control Turkey by themselves they sabbotaged our war efforts, they knew also that if we had weapons and had defeated Kemal Greece would have acquired alot of power and control in the area and she would be capable of imposing its own terms to Kemal something that the allies of Greece did not like

the fact that we had supposed allies does not mean that they did the fight for us

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

dammit greek your so full of wet dreams and bullsht its not even funny, again, read this and shut up please. i hope this ends your theory of the bolshevik bulssht


"In May Bolshevik troops invaded and subjugated the Republic of Erivan. In September, by collusion between the Bolsheviks and Turks, Erivan was delivered to the Turkish Nationalists""

just accept tthat it was a failure of greece and greece alone. dont blame others like you always do.

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/churchill.html>

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but we are off topic so we should stop posting irrelevant things from now, if you have to contribute something to this particular thread concerning the recognition of S  Osetia and Abhazia by Russia be my guest



ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

LOL what happened to your bullsht theory about bolsheviks?



did i actually show proof about something unlike most of greeks and not make up **** from my arse?

anyways bro it was nice owning you







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dude, Kemal received weapons from Russia either you like it or not and the reason is that Russians did not like the western powers including Greeece which was their ally  to control Turkey since they wanted this honour for themselves, you had howitzers and heavy weaponry Russian made so cut the crap about bull**** theories and say something relevant to the topic

thank you

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

Ontsyeas how old are you? 16 like Tezel?

you know how many times we fought agains russians? probably more than we fought greeks, yes alot more since we actually RULED the greeks

you say i dont know anything about history, but you dont have 1/10 of knowledge i have about this issue, apparently.

i even posted a link of Bolsheviks attacking! the turks, why dont you post a link and proof of bolsheviks HELPING and SELLING weapons to TURKS.

oh of course some greeks in this forum likes to back their ideas by bullsht.

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im 30 years old since you are interested

your lack of understanding is surprising, i stated to you an obvious fact it doesnt matter how many times you have fought the Russians, games of power and politics is more complicated than that, The Russians did not want a completely defeated Turkey fully controlled by the allies because it did not serve their plans for control in the area, especially in the Bosporus straits, a Turkey fully captured , divided , and controlled by the allies was for them something very bad for their plans in the long term

you dont have to be a historian or a magician to figure out that dude

but again lets come back to the topic or stop posting in here

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

well think about it would you feed the dog that bit your hand over and over again? i doubt russians cared about Turkey at that time, russia had so many problems at that time turkey was least of their concern, and your telling me they sold weapons to Turks when Russia was in chaos? come on.


again find me a link, a proof that proves your point like i did. until then, good night...


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im just telling you that politics is the most dirty thing all over the world, alliances, balances of power, interests and so forth are costantly changing

nothing should be surprising to you in politics

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

ok this conversation wont end, you just dont want to understand the point im trying to make, so again good night


imagine the scenario, Russia, in total Chaos, so chaotic that she withdrew from WW1 because of problems inside of the country, and your saying instead of saving herself she sold weapons to turkey so turkey could stay alive until russia takes over whatever they want? thats ridicilous Russia couldnt even save herself.
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i will not enter this game of providing links or evidence, since those links and evidence will probably be rejected as being biased I have seen the story 1000,000 times

if you dont believe me then you can still support your own point of view im not in a mood to convince anybody right now

good night to you too

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

why would you try to convince people of something which is just straight up ridiculous

again

imagine the scenario, Russia, in total Chaos, so chaotic that she withdrew from WW1 because of problems inside of the country, and your saying instead of saving herself she sold weapons to turkey so turkey could stay alive until russia takes over whatever they want? thats ridicilous Russia couldnt even save herself.

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Ok Murat my claim is ridiculous

now tell me what source do you consider as independent?

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

is wikipedia reliable and ubiased source to you?



ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

here is what it says about the battle of Inonou pay attention to the underlined parts

 

First Battle of İnönü, December 1920

Main article: First Battle of İnönü

In December 1920, the Greeks had advanced to Eskişehir. Finding stiff resistance, they retired to their former positions. In early 1921 the Greeks resumed their advance in greater earnest, but again met stiff resistance from the entrenched Turkish Nationalists, who were increasingly better prepared and equipped like a regular army.

The Greek advance was halted for the first time at the First Battle of İnönü on January 11, 1921. This development led to Allied proposals to amend the Treaty of Sèvres at a conference in London where both the Turkish Revolutionary and Ottoman governments were represented.

Although some agreements were reached with Italy, France and Britain, the decisions were not agreed to by the Greek government, who believed that they still retained the strategic advantage and could negotiate from a stronger point. The Greeks initiated another attack on March 27th, the Second Battle of İnönü, which was resisted fiercely and finally defeated by the Turkish troops on March 30th. The British favoured a Greek territorial expansion but refused to offer any military assistance in order to avoid provoking the French.^{[citation needed]} The Turkish forces received significant assistance from the newly formed Soviet Union.^[23]

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

so much about my ridiculous claims my friend, as you see the Greek army was succesful as long as we were better equipped later on when our supposed allies refused to help us and Turkey received howitzers they finally managed to defeat us

have a nice evening dude

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

so it is ok for South Ossetia and Abkhazia to break away from Georgia but it isn’t ok for Chechnya to have independence from Russia … talk about hypocrites instead the Russian army and airforce bombarded a tiny country into submission for having the barefaced cheek to want their own freedom ... maybe the west should recognise Chechnya as a sovriegn independant state

are there a list of other countries (however random they maybe) who recognise S. Ossetia and Abkhazia?

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۞۞۞۞۞Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) “Four things support the world: the learning of the wise, the justice of the great, the prayers of the good, and the valor of the brave”۞۞۞۞۞

The extend of the betrayal of the supposed allies of Greece against it can be seen in this passage:

Greek troops moved through Anatolia in 1921 with considerable success to enforce the rule of the Sultan. As generalissimo of Turkish forces, Kemal had unlimited power during this campaign, and he was supplied by Russia, Italy, and France. The Greeks were stopped at Sakarya in September 1921 and driven out in a big campaign the following year. The Nationalists made Kemal a marshal and designated him Ghazi (victorious). The British concluded an armistice with the Turks at Mundanya on Oct. 11, 1922.

http://www.answers.com/topic/mustafa-kemal-atat-rk

 

this passage indicates that not only the Russians but Italians and French were supplying Kemal with weapons, on the contrary Greece was left alone betrayed by its "enemies" because allies who give weapons to your enemies are your enemies too, and the British did not help in order to avoid to displease the French which is the official excuse, but in reality the British too did not like the Greeks to be succesful against Kemal because they would gain power

the condition of the Greek army was very bad so there was no way to succesfully continue the campaign against a very well equipped and fully supported by everybody opponent, morover the political situation in Greece was not good and there was a conflict about politics and military leadership

 

I could find millions of threads to prove what i say but thats enough I consider it waste of time to post things irrelevant to the present topic

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

Albannah, you are right in what you say, peoples' will to be independent should be respected in any case provided that the majority wishes so and not the minority of them so Chechens too should get their independence if they wish to do so

An exception can be done about Northern Cyprus , since the Turkish army illegally occupies the Northern part of the island and does not give the opportunity to the Gcs to get their fortunes and homes back, moreover the Turk Cypriots ARE NOT THE MAJORITY OF THE INHABITANTS OF THE ISLAND

so any possible will for independence sponsored and encouraged by Ankara is illegal

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

With a big sorrow, actually I beggun to weep a few minutes ago I was informed that Dora Bakkoyani the Greek minister of foreign affairs condemned Russia for recognizing S Osetia and Abhazia alligning herself with the official line of France, Germany , Britain , of course United States and the west speaking in general

The official explanation for adopting this line is that Russia should respect the territorial integrity of Georgia

I consider this policy completely hypocritical since United States and the west  did not respect the territorial integrity of Serbia either, moreover S osetians and Abhazians do not consider themselves to be Georgians since they have Russian passports  as i have said almost a million times, so Mrs Bakkoyani disregards the beliefs and desires of those people to be independent and she denies them the right of self determination just because she wants to allign herself with the well known pimps

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

Bakoyannis plays it down the middle, just like always. On the other hand she hasn't supported the US on Kosovo either.

She didnt condemn it either Landos, you see Bakkoyani follows a supposed neutral foreign policy which cannot last for too long because she will soon forced to open her papers and allas to us if she does not have a lucky day

What I mean is that she didnt condemn United  States for openly sponsoring the recognition of Kosovo and putting into jepardy the territorial integrity of Serbia however she does not hesitate to use the same justification as United States for not recognizing S Osetia and Abhazia, this supposed neutrality which is not a neutrality at all if you ask me since nobody can guarantee to us that sooner or later Greece would not recognize Kosovo too, Bakoyanni is just waiting the right time to do so has already and will  further damage our relations with Russia and rightfully so

It is well known that Bakoyannis is just a pawn of the Americans and she never objected to their foreign policy openly, when somebody is watching a pimp dividing the Balkans and causing havoc but stays silent, and when he supports at the same time the foreign policy of his pimp then we dont call him neutral

at least not in my village, we rather call him a servant and a ëáêİ

speaking of neutrality if we were really neutral we should recognize both Kosovo and S Osetia & Abhazia, telling to the Americans that it was them with their irresponsible foreign policy in the Balkans who opened the road for more recognitions to come and more states to loose their territorial integrity as a result

As Albanians could not live together with Serbs since they were slaughtering each other, the same applies to S Osetians and Abhazians  who were slaughtered by the attack of Saakhasvili, thats reality, those people could never live peacefully again with Georgians  and its them who says so not I.

how can you live and be subjected to somebody who killed thousands of your compatriots and ruined your cities?

Bakoyanni should tell the above to the Americans if she was really neutral but she keeps her mouth shut and as long as she keeps her mouth shut I will call her a servant and pawn of the Americans


ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

the hypocricy should be written in the dictionary as a synonymon of the Americans since it was them who bombarded, ruined  and split apart Serbia  in order to save the Albanians by the Serbian massacres , at least thats their official excuse

But they didnt bomb Georgia when she attacked and killed innocent civilians in order to protect them on the contrary they care to preserve its territorial integrity ignoring the fact that it was Georgia the aggressor, what happened to Mr protector and Mr policeman of the humanity suddenly? does he have double standards or something?

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS