Ireland says 'No' to Treaty of Lisbon - and 'No' say all of us
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 14/06/2008


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Imagine that our Government had fulfilled its manifesto promise to the British voters and that we, as well as the Irish, had held a referendum on Thursday on the Treaty of Lisbon. Would the outcome have been any different?

Arguably, the rejection would have been even more emphatic than the 53 to 47 per cent "No" delivered by the Irish yesterday to the utter consternation of the Euro-establishment across the Continent.

The entire business and political elite of Ireland combined (as they did in France and Holland when their referendums rejected the EU constitution in 2005) to tell their countrymen to vote "Yes". The electorate was threatened, cajoled, blackmailed and bullied. They were told their economy would collapse and their country would be ostracised, and still they voted "No".
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And what was the response to this, the only expression of popular opinion on the treaty among any of the 27 member states? It was a collective sucking of teeth, a shaking of heads, and expressions of bewilderment that a country that had benefited so mightily and visibly from EU largesse should bite the hand that fed it.

In normal democratic and accountable institutions, the democratic will, voiced several times over, must eventually be heeded. In the EU, as if to prove the point that its detractors continually make about its arrogance and complacency, "No" is not an answer anyone is prepared to accept.

Instead of creating the sort of Europe that most of its 480 million citizens apparently want to see, the Euro-elites propose instead to hold more summits and conferences to bring about the conclusion that they insist on achieving. That is the "ever-closer union" set out in the Treaty of Rome 50 years ago.

While there are some countries in Europe for whom that is the ultimate goal, ours is not one of them. So what should happen now? First, the treaty is dead and no amount of Jesuitical sophistry can resuscitate it. The Bill to ratify the treaty in Britain is currently before Parliament; indeed, the Lords will vote on its final provisions next week. Gordon Brown should withdraw the legislation and use the forthcoming Brussels summit to persuade the EU to begin work on a new dispensation that would return power to nations and peoples.

EU leaders should ask themselves why the Irish, who have cause to thank the EU and its taxpayers more than most, should support a "No" campaign waged by what the government in Dublin regarded as a motley coalition of extremists. In reality, the 45 per cent of the Irish electorate that turned out have cast proxy ballots for millions more unconsulted Europeans. The rest of us should feel ashamed and angry that it fell to a small and peripheral nation to preserve our democracy.

Quite how arrogant, lordly and remote EU leaders have become was inherent in their reaction to the result. José Manuel Barroso, the commission president, loftily announced that the treaty was not dead, and that ratification would continue.

Mr Brown is reported to have agreed and to have telephoned other EU leaders to assure them of this. Even Brian Cowen, the Irish prime minister, appeared to line up with his fellow EU leaders against his own people within minutes of the result being announced. For the British Government to participate in this shameful exercise, when the Irish voted the way Britain would have done if given the chance, is outrageous.

European integration cannot be indefinitely maintained in open defiance of public opinion everywhere. Here, in short, is an opportunity for a different and better Europe. No means no.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/06/14/dl1401.xml



http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."

-Noam Chomsky

We don't know how the EU should work, but we know it cannot work the way it is currently.
The Lisbon treaty was an attempt to fix it. May be not perfect but it have the advantage that most government agreed with it.
The people is free to reject it, but the members are free to exclude from the club those who rejected the new rules. That's not blackmail, that's only fair, it's a two way street.
Next time all the countries should vote the same day, knowing that those who don't agree would exclude themselves out of the club or at least the inner circle.

What amazes me most is the reasons of people to reject it. So far some of the reasons I've heard, include:

"My husband is voting no."
"We don't like bull fighting."
"I don't know what it is, so I'll just vote no."
"Ireland is great, so no to Europe."

Funny how people would rather stay in system that isn't working, than vote for something that actually works in their advantage. One of the flaws of a "democratic" society.


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_{“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” -- Stephen Roberts}


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One main problem of Europe is the problem of the "elite" who really don't know how to behave with "normal" people.

The commision who wanted to please Irsih population put some files against Ireland on hold.
The normal reaction is to think that these gyus are pretty fond of mainpulation or thinks like that.

"I don't know what it is, so I'll just vote no."

That is a Very good reson to vote No.

The EU is morphing into something quite terrifying. Not the the outside world (biggest foreign aid donor, largest trade deficit with Asia, largest acceptor of immigrants) but to its own native populations.

F.uck an eye for an eye. You take my eye, and I will kill you, and all those you care about. That is our policy.

notanonymous)
The EU is morphing into something quite terrifying. Not the the outside world (biggest foreign aid donor, largest trade deficit with Asia, largest acceptor of immigrants) but to its own native populations.

the EU have nothing to do with that since so far the immigration policy was each member's business witch is quite silly when anyone living in one Schengen country can live on any Schengen country.

Only very recently the EU member started to coordinate there immigration policy (can't see and too lazy to find a link in english)

That is a Very good reson to vote No.

==
As a citizen in a democratic society it's your duty to know what it is. On the basis of "I don't know what it is" almost no law would come into existence.


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_{“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” -- Stephen Roberts}


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Only very recently the EU member started to coordinate there immigration policy (can't see and too lazy to find a link in english)

There in lies the problem. The Western Elite are now pushing the new Eastern Elite to allow immigrants in even though they don't need them. So what we see in Belgium, France, England etc which have proven to be more or less failures in integration (let alone assimilation) are now being pushed on Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary etc.

This baffles the mind and this is what the EU has become. A club of elitist liberals who think they know better then every other person.

In most cases I would agree, intellectuals and the educated elite would know better. But in this day and age, these intellectuals are all of the same school of thought and they are almost completely fascist in their world view, anyone with a differing opinion is simply labelled a extremist and any alternative view is labelled primitive or out of the question.

This is where the EU idea is failing. There is no debate about what the EU should be or how it should be done, its done one way and the way they want it.

Siege of Tobruk - One German POW said: "I cannot understand you Australians. In Poland, France, and Belgium, once the tanks got through the soldiers took it for granted that they were beaten. But you are like demons. The tanks break through and your infantry still keep fighting." Rommel wrote of seeing "a batch of some fifty or sixty Australian prisoners ... marched off close behind us—immensely big and powerful men, who without question represented an elite formation of the British Empire, a fact that was also evident in battle."

@ Spartansoldier the motherfu*cker - When will you learn that I dont give a flying fu*ck that you people warn me? Here warn me again. It doesnt hurt me! LoL

So if you want an excuse to warn me, here it is you whorebag! Your a poor excuse for a flea let alone a human! Eat shi*t and die you motherfu*cker!

hahahaha

Ban me,.....hahahahahahahahaha


No go and su*ck on your dead grandfather's withered balls you inbred co*cksucker!

Bye everyone, this guy will get Mike to ban me and think he's all tough.. Ok spartan faggot, your heaps tough man.. hope that helps get your di*ck up while your wanking you cu*nt!





NCR called Turks uneducated and yobaz's "First of all, winning the votes the majority of the population, which I specifically like to define as "YOBAZ"
(can be compared to the Neo-Conservative morons in the United states) does not imply that the entire nation
supports AKP, and it does not imply that those that to support it are the smartest and most educated people in Turkey."

"Greeks invented sex but TURKS introduced it to women" - Hirotidos Papadopoulos (1452-Just before Istanbul fell to the Turks)

The people of the Irish republic are not anti- European; we are the vast majority pro- Europeans. Let’s get that out of the way first

My opinion of the “no” vote

We have a government that at the time was awash with money,(there word’s) they the Irish government squandered the money on trivial things.
We have a health system that is just not functioning, it is over staffed with Management, and it is costing this country billions in waste.
We have an education system that is not functioning, the teacher in this country are not answerable to any one, there are a number of them in a school where I live and if they where working in the private sector they would not last a week.
We have no road infrastructure (they may be trying to build it now) too late
We have Politian that are over paid, if they had gone ahead with their last pay rise (in September) the leader of the small country would have had more money than the president of the U.S.
The crime in this country is so out of control, we have gang murders going on in two of our cities. The Garda are trying to do their best but they have two hands tied behind their backs.
We also have an open door policy in this country any one from anywhere is allowed in to this country, we have no proper Emigration policies hence we are awash with asylum seekers.
To top this we have the following taxes stealth taxes and

We pay prsi 6.2% for health, welfare, but if you do not have personal health insurance you are lost, we pay 100euro to go into hospital and you even have now to pay to park the car out side the hospital
We have VRT tax no all-new cars, we have road tax 320 euros for a 1.4 engine car, and we have toils on any of the new roads.
We have to pay 40 euro for the privilege of owning a credit card; we pay dirt tax @23% on interest on money in the bank.
We have the highest Vat rate in Europe 23%

I could go on about the feeling,s of the middle working class Ireland; I will stop there and return to the original Question.
Do you now know “WHY” the vast majority vote against government, it was not anti-Europe, but anti-Irish government.




Down here we just dig coal

Kozak, don't forget that everytime the people were asked to express their opinion they voted NO! In Ireland, France, the Netherlands and had the vote took place in England it would have been a NO too (without a doubt).
Sarkozy in all his arrogance said just after the vote that the opinion of the people of Ireland should be ignored and that the Irish government should vote yes. I don't know about you but that's really spitting on the people. You ask their opinion and when they give it you just go against it.
Sarkozy also wanted a second vote right after the first one. Basically he wouldn't have accepted no for an answer.


Mobile airpower

"The enemy dies relaxed," observed a Lockheed Martin manager.

That's why we live an a representative democracy. The people choose their best and brightest so that they can make the right descisions for them, at least in theory. Also from a pracitical standpoint this is essential, considering almost none of the people living in a constitutional democracy know the very principles their constitutional democracy is based on. Which is ironic since this means the people don't agree with their elected representatives.

In my opinion, if left to the people, the state would destroy itself. This is also why I'm a strong proponent of changes to the democratic process.


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_{“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” -- Stephen Roberts}


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Quote: Kozak, don't forget that everytime the people were asked to express their opinion they voted NO! .

eh...no they didn't, Spain and Luxembourg both voted yes....


Fair winds......
Dauntless sons of Celtic sires
Whose souls the love of freedom fires,
Hark! ev'ry harp to war inspires
On Cader Idris side.
See the brave advancing,
See the brave advancing,
Each well-tried spear
Which Saxons fear,
In warlike splendour glancing.
Proud Harlech from her frowning tow'rs
Pours forth her never failing pow'rs.
Rouse, heroes, glory shall be ours,
March on, your country's pride!

That's why we live an a representative democracy. The people choose their best and brightest so that they can make the right descisions for them, at least in theory. Also from a pracitical standpoint this is essential, considering almost none of the people living in a constitutional democracy know the very principles their constitutional democracy is based on. Which is ironic since this means the people don't agree with their elected representatives. In my opinion, if left to the people, the state would destroy itself. This is also why I'm a strong proponent of changes to the democratic process.



WOW. Don't leave us hanging...

eh...no they didn't, Spain and Luxembourg both voted yes....

Quiet Irishmen. Your people may have stopped a none democratic approach, but by the Beer Gods you Irish will pay!

Siege of Tobruk - One German POW said: "I cannot understand you Australians. In Poland, France, and Belgium, once the tanks got through the soldiers took it for granted that they were beaten. But you are like demons. The tanks break through and your infantry still keep fighting." Rommel wrote of seeing "a batch of some fifty or sixty Australian prisoners ... marched off close behind us—immensely big and powerful men, who without question represented an elite formation of the British Empire, a fact that was also evident in battle."

Will you take a post dated check?....fund's are a little sparse around here due to the credit crisis.....


Fair winds......
Dauntless sons of Celtic sires
Whose souls the love of freedom fires,
Hark! ev'ry harp to war inspires
On Cader Idris side.
See the brave advancing,
See the brave advancing,
Each well-tried spear
Which Saxons fear,
In warlike splendour glancing.
Proud Harlech from her frowning tow'rs
Pours forth her never failing pow'rs.
Rouse, heroes, glory shall be ours,
March on, your country's pride!

No look, I'll be fair, send me the cheque made from potato crisps. That way, if the cheque bounces at least I have a enjoyable treat.

Siege of Tobruk - One German POW said: "I cannot understand you Australians. In Poland, France, and Belgium, once the tanks got through the soldiers took it for granted that they were beaten. But you are like demons. The tanks break through and your infantry still keep fighting." Rommel wrote of seeing "a batch of some fifty or sixty Australian prisoners ... marched off close behind us—immensely big and powerful men, who without question represented an elite formation of the British Empire, a fact that was also evident in battle."

WOW. Don't leave us hanging...

==
It's a series of minor changes which can have great consequences. Maybe I'll write a small piece about it, but I still have to work out some things.


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_{“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” -- Stephen Roberts}


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The problem is the EU is trying to make itself into the United States of Europe. Now look at the history of the US, despite being of a common language and similar culture they still had to fight a civil war to go from the being the States of America united under a constitution to the United States the country. to put it simply, the US as a plural to the US as a singular.

Regional differences in Europe being greater than they were in 19th century America. Europe isn't exactly going to fight a war.

"Next time all the countries should vote the same day, knowing that those who don't agree would exclude themselves out of the club or at least the inner circle."

Its amazing how those retarded leaders did not did exactly that.....it was obvious that it would always come out a country that would say no.

anyway ...perfect deals is not possible among a vast/spread culture as the european case. Next solution is to make a strong block as the monetary Euro block and for good stop all negotiations with the american Islands ....those in the european coast ...close to France and Britain....we have to stop pretending ourselves that they are europeans.

Ireland does not produces anything useful anyway...and England only outputs the primmier league ....but for that they can be out of europe ....go ...go and close the door. ....bunch of drunk useless Britons....drunk and brute all the time!!...

Ireland does not produces anything useful anyway...and England only outputs the primmier league ....but for that they can be out of europe ....go ...go and close the door. ....bunch of drunk useless Britons....drunk and brute all the time!!...

We probily produce more in ireland than you think, we "vote" not to this lisbon treaty. Our goverment will have onother "vote" in the new year or untill the goverment get the result that they want"yes"



Down here we just dig coal

We need a multi-speed Europe. Countries that want closer cooperation, should be able to have that (even within EU framework). Once a system proves succesful, even the ignorant want to jump on board (think of Schengen and Euro for example). But we can't afford to wait for idiots to change their minds.


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_{“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” -- Stephen Roberts}


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But we can't afford to wait for idiots to change their minds.

who are the idiots!!??


Down here we just dig coal

"That is a Very good reson to vote No.

==
As a citizen in a democratic society it's your duty to know what it is. On the basis of "I don't know what it is" almost no law would come into existence."

And its a DUTY of the leaders to explain whats going on.

"That's why we live an a representative democracy. The people choose their best and brightest so that they can make the right descisions for them, at least in theory. Also from a pracitical standpoint this is essential, considering almost none of the people living in a constitutional democracy know the very principles their constitutional democracy is based on. Which is ironic since this means the people don't agree with their elected representatives."

Er we dont since when did the best and the brightest get in to goverment.

"But we can't afford to wait for idiots to change their minds."

I never understood why England was, and still is with half foot in Europe....whats going up in their tiny heads?

who are the idiots!!??

==
Ignorant citizens and populist politicians.


And its a DUTY of the leaders to explain whats going on.

==
It is the DUTY of the citizen to ELECT the best possible leaders, so that the ELECTED leaders can make the choices FOR the citizens. If the leaders are failing, the citizens are failing: hence REPRESENTATIVE democracy.


Er we dont since when did the best and the brightest get in to goverment.

==
Now you understand why I'm for changing the current democratic system. In theory the system works, in practice there are many problems.


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_{“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” -- Stephen Roberts}


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