Can anyone tell me who is in control of the goalie information posted on pointstreak. I know that the player information ie: Goals, Assists, penalties etc. is determined by the referees - and they are Game Officials - but who is determining the Shots on Goal etc. which then results in stats that show save% etc.
It seems to me that there are different rules for players & goalies.
I don't think there is a Game Official in control of the goalie stats.
Could someone enlighten me on this?

Shots are kept either by the pointstreak operator or a hometown volunteer. That data is enter into pointstreak. It is the responsibility of the poinstreak operator to make sure the right goalie is playing in the software and that any goalie changes are made at the correct time. It is usually a lack of atention to this that makes the goalies stats often incorrect.

"Goals, Assists, penalties etc. is determined by the referees"

And for better or worse allowed to be changed by team staff and for the most part it is for the worse!

Stats in this league is nothing more than a joke.

Pointstreak is as good as the individual operator and that's the bottom line. Hamilton's operator is pretty well on the ball although twice he has missed goalie changes. Probably the worst-kept are the shots on goal which if not entered default to the period score. I do not fully understand the system but I have noticed that individual player stats are usually not shown until the game is declared 'official' but I believe that one of the two games last night..I believe it was in Collingwood had the players stats updated as the game was going on. Another thing I do not understand is why if a player is on the sheet for the first time ne is usually 'N.Player' until the game becomes final but last night in Collingwood J Vanni who has not played for them before was listed by name.

Believe it or not, the most commonly made mistake by Pointstreak operators that affects goalie stats is when a goalie leaves the net for an extra attacker, the PS op is supposed to make a goalie change to "empty net" at the time the goalie steps off the ice, and put the goalie back on the sheet if an "extra attacker" or "empty net" goal is scored. This few seconds of ice time can greatly skew the GAA stats when added up over a number of games.

Also, the shots MUST be kept fairly accurately, and goalie changes recorded. These are fairly easy, all it takes is a PS operator who actually takes pride in their work and pays attention to their job, rather than being there just to watch a free hockey game.

I agree with you Sharpie in that stat but really, the most significant problem is how shots are counted. Having a person in the time keepers box trying to count shots is not a good idea especially if the same person is running the clock, working the PS terminal and writing on a game sheet. I think we have all seen games where the shot count is completely wrong. I would even go so far as to say that in some rinks the shot counts are always high especially against the home team.
The only way to determine if a particular shot was a real shot on goal is to observe it close to the net. That means two people need to be involved, one at each end. Many timekeepers booths have obscured sight lines making objective observation difficult.
The GAA stat on Pointstreak is really quite useless and it is unfortunate for the league that the stat is out there in everyone's face.

It would be sad to find out that any scout at any level would put any faith or give any credence to such a nebulous statistic.

As someone who does the shots in addition to the PS and the clock in Whitby (in Markham they have someone who counts shots and they are brought to me after each period), and has done the same thing in Pickering for many years, I disagree with the assessment that it is not the best way. There are two of us in Whitby, myself doing the clock and PS, and Corey doing the music. I count the shots, with the occasional "Did that get through, Corey?" for ones I might miss. Between the two of us, I would say that we get it 99.9% right. Even when I did it all alone in Pickering, I would wager a 98% or better rate of accuracy. No angle in the rink is foolproof for counting shots, not even right behind the net. There are always going to be shots that are missed simply by having the wrong angle, especially at this level, where shots cannot be corrected by someone watching a video replay, like the NHL or OHL levels.

Again, what it boils down to is that the level of accuracy will ALWAYS rely on how much attention is given to the job by the PS operator. It doesn't matter if it is goalie ice time, shots, penalties, or anything else, the PS operator is there to do a job, not to watch a free hockey game. If a half-assed job is done, then half-assed stats are what we are going to continue to see.

For example of what I mean, I refer you to a few weeks ago in Markham. Richard Clayton brought me down the shots for the third period. We were in a hurry to get the gamesheets printed, because Richard had to get home. So I sent off the final result, and checked the gamesheet over, only to notice I had rushed and not entered the third period shots. So I brought it to Richard's attention, and he contacted the league the next morning, when the shots were fixed. If I did not have that attention to detail, I never would have noticed and it would probably still be incorrect.

If there is even one PS operator that does not take enough pride in his work to make sure he or she is entering every single entry correctly, then that is one too many, in my honest opinion. The league and these teams are paying far too much money to run Pointstreak to have people who don't care to enter things correctly.

Also, I want to clarify something here. My posts are not intended to blast anybody who is taking time out of their busy lives to volunteer for their local teams. Far from it. I know that there are far too few people out there who are willing to give their time like that, and I understand and appreciate their dedication.

What I am trying to say is that if you are going to volunteer, please do it for the right reasons, and be willing to treat it like a job. Don't volunteer just because you will get to watch hockey for free from the best seat in the house, and don't volunteer just because they are signing a letter for your community service hours for school. Put your heart into it, take pride in it.

Look at it this way. If you are volunteering to get a letter to show your school you did community service hours, wouldn't it be so much better if the GM also wrote you a letter of reference to show potential future employers? Or if the owner of the team allowed you to put his name on your list of references that could be called? They won't be willing to do that if you are just showing up at the games and doing a poor job of what you have volunteered to do.

If you are not completely familiar with Pointstreak, ask somebody who is familiar inside and out to show you. Ask the GM to have the PS people send somebody out to teach you everything there is to know about the program. Or show up a half-hour earlier on game nights, and just toy around with it a bit.

And most of all, during the game, focus on your job. Don't worry about the big hit the winger just threw, worry about behaving in a professional manner in the booth. That's what counts the most.

And by the way, westobserver, goals, assists, etc. are NOT allowed to be changed by team officials. During a game, the referee is the only person who can change a goal or add an assist. After a game is complete, the team must go through the league office if there is to be a change. Any in-game change that is made by the scorer without the consent of the referee can result in a fine by the league.

In game after game changes, what is the difference? Team staff will still over rule the on ice official as to the awarding of points as you say yourself "After a game is complete, the team must go through the league office if there is to be a change."

Exactly, and who is making the change, the team staff. The league does not challenge the staff on this so at the end of the day, it is the team staff who has the say on who got what points in a game not the on ice official. Once again, stats in this league are nothing more than a complete joke.

No, the league DOES challenge the team on this. The team has to provide a copy of their video to the league, as they would with other protests and challenges. If evidence is not provided that an assist should be changed, I have never seen the league make a change. In fact, a couple of years ago we had a player on Pickering who, it seemed like every home game, I heard from someone that he hadn't been given an assist on a goal in the previous road game, and the league had refused to correct it because there was no video evidence to overrule the referees. So the league does NOT just take team officials at face value, ever. Whoever told you that either doesn't know, or is outright lying.

I do know that in some rinks the shot count is taken very responsibly and I commend these organizations for having the people to do it. Unfortunately, not all do and player/goalie stats are the result of ALL arenas played in.

Keep up the good work Sharpie and all others who take their job seriously.

It should be noted that another issue with the shots on goal totals is the recorder's interprutation of a shot on goal. By definition, the shot would have gone in if the goalie wan't there to save it. Unfortunately, a lot people tend to record the shot if the goalie makes a save on a shot off the net. ie. high shots over the cross bar. If you ever go to a rink that has a running shot clock, take a look how many times a shot off the net is considered a shot on goal. Some of this is subjective but I would argue the shots on goal are considerably lower than was it listed as official.

I would have thought that anyone listed as a team minor official, should know or has be briefed on what constitutes a shot on goal. If they do not or have not been briefed then they should not be doing the job.

I'm always amazed at how many people think that a shot that hits the goal post is a shot on goal.

Maybe more teams should spend a little more time on instructing their minor officials.

Those are EXCELLENT points. And part of that is why I say that no angle is perfect for recording shots. For example, if you are watching shots from one side of the net, and the goalie makes a toe save on the other side, it can be extremely difficult to tell if the shot would have gone in or whether it would have hit the side of the net.

As a general rule, my personal way of handling those close calls is I call one a shot, then the next one for that team is not a shot. I figure if I am calling 50% of the close calls for each team a shot, I will get as close to accurate as possible.

And I wholeheartedly agree that all minor or off-ice officials should be properly trained. I have said for years that the league needs to implement and enforce mandatory league training for off-ice officials, and license/register them the same as refs and linesmen. I have even offered to lend my years of experience to the creation and/or implementation of this program. But thus far, the league has never responded to me on this.

I know that stats are changed simply by emailing PS.

As far as adding an assist or changing an assist ... a player(from either team, but obviously more often Wexford) would come to me and say "I got the assist on that last goal" I would respond either with a simple "OK" or "Tell the referee, I am not allowed to change it.".
If my answer was "OK", then I would ask/tell the referee that this goal/assist is in dispute, usually the referee would say 'sure', meaning go ahead and make the change. There have been times where the referee said "No" and I would not make the change.

In any event, changes can be made after the game by team officials before they sign off. During the end of the game and before the game becomes final, while it says "Unofficial Final" anyone can change anything on the stats.


Sharpie is dead wrong on the 'timers area' being the best place to count shots on goal. Like Kev stated just because a goalie blocks it, does not mean it is a save.











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And Wex, I never said that the timekeeper's box was the best place to count shots. I simply disagreed that it is the worst. I do not think there IS a best place, since every angle in the rink is flawed when it comes to counting shots, and therefore, the timekeeper's box (where, presumably, the scorer has been properly trained in what is and is not a shot) is as good a place as any.

Also, Wex, the team officials should NEVER be the ones signing off. The PS operator and official scorekeeper is the ONLY person that is supposed to have access to the PS program from the time it is logged in, until the time the final is official. NOBODY else. Teams that do not comply with this are subject to fines, that was sent in a memo at the start of this season. Therefore, there should not be any possible way for team officials to change the stats without the scorer going through the referee.

Well all I can say is I remember the way it was done at Wexford.
We did not make many, if any changes, to goals. We would always add the shots at the end of the game, before I signed it off.
Like I said, the referee would allow me to make changes to the scoresheet as I saw fit. One referee asked me if I believe the player after the referee gave only one assist. I said yes, because I did see him make the first pass, so the referee just nodded.


Anyway, I will be making my way up to Marlham soon to see how you run your set up.











Support Our Troops !


Go Leafs(but not too well, we want the #1 pick) !
Go Jays !
Go Raptors !
Go Argos !
Go TFC !


WEXDOG is a Cowboys Fan ! 6-4
09,11,01
Lest We Forget
11,11,11