So the OJHL Future Stars Game is on Jan 14 and the ALLSTAR game is on Jan 21.
All Division teams will have representation and no doubt the scouts will be out in full force at this rare opportunity to see the very best on the OJHL all at once.
Meanwhile the Central Divison is holding and ALLSTAR and Young Stars game with against the CJHL on Jan 17.
The rest of the players from the OJHL are not welcome and will not get the "exposure" that the Central players will.
I have no doubt that the OJHL could request a revocation of sanctioning for the Central Division to participate without including OJHL players...but they won't
No, the OJHL seems intent to continue to take it up the nether regions from the Central Division with the same pacifism that Chamberlain showed in WW2.
The Central Division is an afront to the OJHL for reasons we have all read on this board and others. They continue to snub the nose of the OJHL with impunity and quite frankly and the OJHL seems to have no plan to deal with them that we have heard.
Central will keep on using the OJHL in everyway imaginable until they have everything they want. And why not? It's the smart play when you are willing to play brinkmanship politics with a weak opponent. Keep kicking them in the ass in calculated intervales to that you move them, but don't leave a bruise and then kick them again.
What could the OJHL do?
1) Apply to the OHA to desanction the Central - CJHL game
2) Failing #1 ban all Central Players from the OJHL ALLSTAR and FUTURESTAR games this year. The rational is that they have already had their "allstar: moment.
3) Begin immediate proceedings with the OHA and CHA to remove the Central Division from the OJHL. Let them play in the CJHL with whom they have such affinity. The rational is that this Division no long participates as a member and thus should not be able to be part of the decision making process for the OJHL with votes.
4) Establish conditions for the Central to remain in the OJHL.
- Cease Division only sponsorship, advertising or promotion.
- Follow the rules and policies of the OJHL.
- Bring any proposals to the OJHL board for approval.
Without these basic requirements, the OJHL should be kicking Central to the Curb.
It's time to move this "experiment" to the next level. Either move out or create the Midget League that Central seems to desire.
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Well said. The 1st thing that I would do, if I had any say, would be #2 on your list which is ban any Central Division players from playing in the 2 OJHL tournaments in January. As you point out the CD will have already had their All Star game with the "sleazy" CJHL, who are at fault by allowing an All Star game between a league and a Division of another league. Unheard of in the history of Junior "A" hockey or any hockey league for that matter.
Don't forget also that the CD has their OWN 8 team tournament between XMas and New Years in Newmarket, it replaces the old Newmarket Showcase Tournament. How exciting is that going to be for the players, hey a tournament against the teams that we play against all season, "whee" can hardly wait. It would have been a great opportunity for the CD to mend a few fences by inviting OJHL teams to participate but they obviously chose to thumb their noses once again at the OJHL. They probably did not want to take a chance at getting their "as*s" kicked by some of the OJHL teams.
I also recently noticed, don't know why I didn't notice before, the CD teams carry the Central Division logo on their sweaters. I didn't notice whether the OHA logo is there also, maybe someone can comment on that. Is that showing disrespect or what, and still the OJHL allows them to participate in their All Star game and is obviously sanctioning the "Abrams Brothers" CJHL All Star game. Go to the CD website, they only record the scoring leaders in their own division, yet the OJHL lists the CD scorers in the OJHL scorer's list and are obviously competeting for the overall OJHL scoring title.
Personally, I hope the CD joins the CJHL, then they will have to up their budget by another $50,000 for travel alone, then we will see what teams remain in the Central. Imagine Hamilton to Pembroke, they will have to stay overnight.
OJHL Executive, give your heads a shake and end this "madness"!
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smc57, as usual any complaint about the central you show up (its all you have left). news flash, no team in the OPJHL has an OHA logo on it. check real close. OPJHL logo, sure, OHA, no. does the central division logo offend you that much? i mean it is in your face alot i guess in aurora.
i also guess the central being "smarter" and "faster" than the dino pack running the opjhl is cause for them to be "desanctioned" damn them all for being so crafty thats not allowed around here we expect and deserve mediocrity.
the showcase games..dont know if you have seen it yet or not but all eight games over the two days will be shown on rogers. no aurora no anybody else. seems the central has their stuff together in promoting their players. the horror!
the central d website. think about it smc57, they differences in the competition would not adequately showcase the players in the central under the all encompassing dogpile that is the opjhl. their website kicks buttocks compared to the opjhl. again good for them. sad for the op who got stuck with a sketchy website(s).
the cjhl games. good for the central again, committing to and delivering top-notch exposure for their players. what a concept doing what they say.
derbydog, what can i say I guess you dont realize that if the opjhl had their way this past summer the central wouldnt be happening. truth is the oha is the one backing the central and everything they are doing. they said so then and it continues now. i would think the opjhl is a lobster about to find themselves in a nice pot of water. heats on. central seems to have control of the heat now dont they?
lets all call a spade a spade. jealousy is rampant. they are doing what they said, continue to do so and are being successful at it. its good to be envious. perhaps this will wake up everyone to what we all have been saying for years. the op is on the fast decline. the central just exposed it to the public. and now THEY are doing something about it. embrace them, thank them. they are making it better for the players.
$$PM87$$
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SMC57 - I agree with your addendums and no doubt there are a lot more items that will need to be added.
PM - The Teams and play in the CD are no smarter nor faster nor anything else more or less than OJHL players considering their youth and lack of experience on some teams due to their age restrictions. The CD management complains that under the "old system" it was too difficult to make changes. True, you couldn't just bully your way through the OJ the way the ringleaders of this coop have in the Central.
Jealous? Hardly. There really is nothing that the CD has done that a couple of phone calls didn't equal or better. Administering a little group like the CD isn't difficult, it's sort of like running Peewee house league. Even the GTHL Divisions have more teams to work with. Now that's a real challenge.
The "Allstar" games against the CJ aren't good for the OJ players. Only the CD players
The deals and sponsorships the CD have gotten don't benefit the OJ players. Only the CD owners and maybe the players.
The Divison promo such as divisional press releases and web site don't benefit the OJ players. Only the CD Players and the egos of the owners.
The teams and OJHL are working for ALL the teams in the league with every single one of their programs, marketing and services. INCLUDING THE CD PLAYERS.
The CD is not for the benefit of THE players. ONLY the players in the CD.
The CD is a selfish organization that doesn't care if the OJHL teams follow or not. Just as long as they get control and run it by the rules set by a few.
Also PM your comments simply prove my point that the Central should be cut out of the OJ like any outlaw organization. Let them exist as they wish and if they won't accept the basic conditions then allow individual teams from the Central to rejoin without the rest which can either go outlaw or creat their own Midget program that I stated before.
As far as the OHA support. The CD need to be careful of who they consider their friends in this venture. The only thing that I hope for is that the OJHL membership is planning to resolve this to THEIR satifaction at the OHA annual meeting. You are correct PM the heat is on, but there are plenty of burners for everyone.
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PM87: "their website kicks buttocks compared to the opjhl. again good for them. sad for the op who got stuck with a sketchy website(s)."
Once again you give the impression that the CD is not part of the OJHL. Do make your minds up. If you want to go, please hurry up and do so, you won't be missed. Nobody likes cancers.
And I'd love to know why we should be jealous. As a Lindsay fan I am REALLY enjoying the hockey I'm watching.
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From what I know about the teams in the CJHL, an All Star team from that league should kick the butts of the Central All Stars when they play. However, when you consider a couple of the promoters, wouldn't surprise me if the outcome will be a little "contrived" if you know what I mean.
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I don't think the Central Division players should be allowed in the All-Star game.
If they're not going to play by the same rules as everybody else, they should not be allowed in. Plain and simple.
However, if the league threatens to kick out the Central division, how many teams do you think would agree to call it quits with this stupidity and go back to normal? And how many would want to be renegades and run off and join another league? I hear bob russell's league is looking for teams.
And one more thing I want to get off my chest, kind of irrelvant, but if i don't say it soon, I might crack: I'm SICK AND TIRED of all these people who are running around pretending (and worse, THINKING) they know everything about everything. Just shut up and watch the game.
*I can see your five hole*
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Wex, if we "whinners" had our way under the current conditions the Central Division wouldn't be included in the OJHL playoffs at all since they no longer follow the criteria to play in the OJHL.
One thing is clear. While the CD claims to want to develop players again it is not for ALL junior aged players as recognized by the CHA/OHA. The restriction to "20 year olds" is designed to get rid of them all together.
This is contrary to another one of the CD's published promises that being:
"...and a league-first attitude to player development, promotion and advancing players to the next levels of hockey: OHL/CHL, NCAA, CIS and professional."
This CD policy in fact reduces the opportunities for older players to get into the NCAA, CIS and professional. Not giving some of these 20 yr olds somewhere to play close to home would certainly be the final straw for those that are looking for a scholarship in the CIS or NCAA but didn't dominate until they were older.
Thus for some players the following is also not available to them even though they are Junior aged according to the CHA/OHA.
- Teams will follow a Central Division-sponsored educational development plan to prepare players for their academic futures as well as hockey.
Again, my point is that the CD wants we change the rules to suit their narrow misguided definition of what a Junior Hockey Player is. It certainly does not suit ALL the eligible Junior aged players in the CHA.
The CD is an experiment in exclusion.
Exclude the other teams that have the entire league to operate and provide services to.
Exclude developing older players.
Exclude the authority and proprietory rights of the OJHL.
Why stop with the CD.
How about letting the Phillips Division have no players under 17 and expand the eligibility of older players to be carded? I am sure that the GTHL and OMHA would welcome this change and rejuvenate their Midget programs.
It goes on.
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I find it very strange that someone who considers himself to be a suitable person to moderate a hockey forum chooses to label one side of an argument as 'whiners'. I rather thought these were places designed to give people of differing opinions a chance to express them with out being subject to personal insults from people who don't share their point of view.
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"Thus for some players the following is also not available to them even though they are Junior aged according to the CHA/OHA.
- Teams will follow a Central Division-sponsored educational development plan to prepare players for their academic futures as well as hockey."
How is it not available?
First step to receiving help is helping yourself.
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Basically they have reduced the number of 20 year olds a team can have and by requiring teams "play" 16 year olds again, older players will see a reduction in their playing time.
So the CD wants to reduce the number of 20 year olds, what is the rationale?
So the CD wants to ensure that teams "play" 16 year olds, what is the rationale?
The answer to both is easy.
To continue to get players to leave the Minor Hockey Clubs they belong to and play Junior. If a player needs this guarantee then they shouldn't be in Junior Hockey. It's like House League where 16 year olds in the CD ice time will be monitored and expected to be .... I don't know what? What is the acceptable amount of Ice time for a 16 yr old rookie? Who decides? What's the criteria? Can the parents appeal if they don't think their stopwatch show enough time for Jimmy? How about a 2 minute buzzer when a 16 year old is on the ice to help?
Even reducing signable 20 year olds by 2 cards would reduce the league by 72 20 year old, experience players. Currently, thanks to this CD policy 16 players do not have a place to play Junior Hockey in their hometown which they would under OJHL rules.
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I really don't think Derby Dawg is that off base. I think he makes some decent points, but I really think blaming the CD for the lack of chances for 20 year olds is not completely right. If I am not mistaken the CJAHL started that with their 9 player restriction and now the CD has only furthered that move. Was it the CJAHL or was it hockey Canada who made the ruling on 20 year olds and restricted 16 year olds thus making JR A for 17-19. I remember a lot of people talking about how JR A was made for 18-20 year olds however that is no longer the case, so I do not see how blaming the CD for this occurrence is really all that fair.
The one question that comes up in my mind when it comes to OPJHL and the CD is who alienated who? Many people throw out their opinions or hearsay about the situation, but there has never been true fact on how this has all come about. I still believe in the old adage, it takes two to tango.
First step to receiving help is helping yourself.
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Another "idiotic" statement PM, the last I looked the Central was still part of the OJHL, so your statement does not make sense, or could it be that the Central has already broken away from the OJHL? naw, that would be too much to ask for Christmas.
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from the central division website, "will remain members of the OPJHL but compete under a separate administrative structure and operating guidelines"
so merry christmas they have said all along that they are playing in the league, but the OHA has set it up that the cd does not report to or is part of the administrative mess that is the opjhl.
they just keep doing what they say they will dangit. when will they just play along and not do things they say they will do like the rest of the opjhl!!!
$$PM87$$
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Whateveritis;
"I find it very strange that someone who considers himself to be a suitable person to moderate a hockey forum chooses to label one side of an argument as 'whiners'."
Yeah, I know. Terrible of me.
August ... SMC, Derbydog, Whatever "We hate the Central"
Ok fine ... to each his/her own.
September ... SMC, Derbydog, Whatever "We hate the Central"
Did we not already cover this ?
October ... SMC, Derbydog, Whatever "We ha... blah blah "
Nothing else to write about ?
November ... SMC, Derbydog, Whatever " blah blah blah "
Guys ... move on ! EVERYONE knows you guys are not friendly toward the Central. You three have more then made it clear.
December ... SMC, Derbydog, Whatever " blah ... "
I think some poeple do not even hear you anymore.
Oh and Derbydog, the OJHL is the only league that allows nine 20 years olds to play tier 2. Most, if not all, other CJAHL league limits are around five or six.
Support Our Troops !
Go Leafs(but not too well, we want the #1 pick) !
Go Jays !
Go Raptors !
Go Argos !
Go TFC !
WEXDOG is a Cowboys Fan ! 8-5
09,11,01
Lest We Forget
11,11,11
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I won't be participating in Wexdog's personal attack on topic this since his position is quite clear.
But in response to his statement
"I think some poeple do not even hear you anymore." I think we are being heard loud and clear and the replies here, including yours, are proof of that.
Furthermore, until this issue with the CD is resolved to the satisfaction of the OJHL as well as myself, I will keep commenting on it as I see fit. I checked with my copy of the Canadian Charter of Rights (2-b) so it's still okay.
Please, just try and resist the urge to respond unless you have something to say about the topic and not just to chastise the posters. You make us feel more important than we deserve.
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I did not make myself clear, my fault.
People who have a concern about the Central one way or the other will still read and react. My comment about the whiners being ignored meant that you/they would be ignored by the people who are indifferent toward the Central.
Furthermore, the comment was directed more at Whateever.
"The Central does this wrong", "The Central does that wrong", "The Central did not do this or that" ... samething, every day, at what point does it become whining ?
So for fun ...
Derbydog;
"What could the OJHL do?
1) Apply to the OHA to desanction the Central - CJHL game
2) Failing #1 ban all Central Players from the OJHL ALLSTAR and FUTURESTAR games this year. The rational is that they have already had their "allstar: moment.
3) Begin immediate proceedings with the OHA and CHA to remove the Central Division from the OJHL. Let them play in the CJHL with whom they have such affinity. The rational is that this Division no long participates as a member and thus should not be able to be part of the decision making process for the OJHL with votes.
4) Establish conditions for the Central to remain in the OJHL.
- Cease Division only sponsorship, advertising or promotion.
- Follow the rules and policies of the OJHL.
- Bring any proposals to the OJHL board for approval.
Without these basic requirements, the OJHL should be kicking Central to the Curb."
1) Apply to the very organization that sanctions the Central ?
Sure go ahead.
2) OJHL could try that, but it would not hold up in court. The Central, as much as it bugs you, is apart of the league.
3) If this could even be remotely successful then the league should have used it to contract. Cannot kick the Central owners out if they do not want to go.
4) Again, already sanctioned by a higher authority. I am sure the Central would be treated fairly bringing a proposal to the OP board.
Support Our Troops !
Go Leafs(but not too well, we want the #1 pick) !
Go Jays !
Go Raptors !
Go Argos !
Go TFC !
WEXDOG is a Cowboys Fan ! 8-5
09,11,01
Lest We Forget
11,11,11
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I said ...
"When the playoffs roll around(league semis) you whiners will get your way.
Is that not the idea ?"
To which you(Derby Dawg) responded.
"Not really..
Wex, if we "whinners" had our way under the current conditions the Central Division wouldn't be included in the OJHL playoffs at all since they no longer follow the criteria to play in the OJHL."
You need to read a little more carefully.
The Central is apart of the league and playoff format. That is the way it is, from the league itself.
Now going forward from here.
When the fourth round of the coming playoffs are upon us, the Central non supporters will have their way. That is the plan, is it not ?
Support Our Troops !
Go Leafs(but not too well, we want the #1 pick) !
Go Jays !
Go Raptors !
Go Argos !
Go TFC !
WEXDOG is a Cowboys Fan ! 8-5
09,11,01
Lest We Forget
11,11,11
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Mr. Joe Average Fan..not unlike Joe the Plumber..does not seem to be too impressed by the full page ads in the local paper here in Hamilton..sometimes twice a week.. as attendance is less than last season and from the look of the other attendance figures posted on Pointstreak, and I think sometimes to be taken with a grain of salt, the others have nothing to boast about either. What I miss, personally, especially now that the other divisions are doing it is the odd game against a 'outside' team..and the former 'Showcase tourney' means little except a regular Central game played in a different arena. I think what makes it worse here on the mountain is that the Blades, Raiders and Cougars are all having such great seasons but they never darken the door of the Dave. Ah well, it just one season in the life and all will be well on May 12 under the B.C sunshine.
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Exactly Ron, the Central has basically killed "rivalries" and as a result attendance in many Arenas has fallen off considerably.
And what has the Central accomplished? from what I can see nothing much in fact they are starting to look more and more like every other team in the league with every day, what with buying up players and now it looks like they are on a mission to find 19 and 20 year old experienced goaltenders. By the end of the season the Central's agenda will be no different than the rest of the OJHL teams and the so called "development league" criteria will be but a memory.
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Matty, if it's the same conclusion that I made 4 months ago, then I must be some sort of "sage" or "soothsayer". I didn't know that I possessed such powers.
Let me see, what looks good in the stock market today. LOL
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Ah SMC what you have to ask yourself is what is going to happen at seasons end. Does the CD rejoin or continue on as is for a second year? I don't know but it will interesting to hear what the CD owners think and what the old boys think and what really happens!
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There is great distrust of the CD organizers from the OJHL. I won't rehash the argument but the method used in the creation of the CD has set back an organization that already had enough on it's plate.
This has galvanized the remaining owners like no other issue could and it will be interesting to see how they react at the table at season's end.
I believe that the courts may be involved since almost any situation will be at the expense of one side or the other. But more likely it will be a CHA/OHF/OHA decision on the experiment that sets the course.
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To be honest, when I was starting to get ready to come home, and I first found out there was going to be a "special" division and that my team would be in it, I was kind of excited. Everyone wants their team to be in the "special" one.
Now that my team is in it, I'd MUCH rather they not be in it. No offense to Bowmanville/Trenton/Peterborough etc. fans, but I don't want to see these east teams when I go to Whitby/Pickering/Ajax. Going to Cobourg on the odd Monday, it's a lot closer to get to Cobourg than it is Newmarket/Stouffville/Markham etc. for me, but who in the east wants to watch these teams? Having never been out this way before, I don't know what the crowds were like before, but after watching the STUPID DUKES last week, there were quite a few people there. How many people are going to watch Stouffville tonight? I bet you not too many.
I think I may just start cheering for Ajax. No Central Division BS, aaand I'd get to see JPM more often
*I can see your five hole*
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