It has been discussed many times that there are too many Jr A times in the OP which there are. So how does it get resolved? Clearly with the creation of the Central Division this past year the owners in the OP won't be able to solve the problem. Can HC, OHF or OHA redefine the makeup of its members?
What seems clear to me, but perhaps is not the answer, is the GTA needs a Jr. B loop. I think you could easily take 8 to 10 OP teams out of the GTA and add a sorely needed level in this area. Imagine the improvement in the quality of the remaining Jr A teams if you properly place 230 players in Jr B. All of a sudden the OP is relevant again and we will see more interest from the NCAA. Some lower budget OP owners should embrace the idea. They are still able to offer a much needed service in the GTA and hopefully operate at a lower budget so lose less money.
It is a shame towns like Trenton, Port Hope and Bancroft have or are losing teams as it is the small towns where Jr. hockey can really work if done properly. By building a solid fan base and attracting local sponsorship teams will have a leg up and breaking even becomes a real possibilty even with bussing and billeting costs.
Unfortunatley the reality in most of the GTA locations, there is no sense of community and very little fan interest. Losing money, 10's of thousands of dollars is the norm.
On a separate note, can someone explain what we seem to have against the poor 20 year old player. It seems we are trying to push the kid out the door. The Central wants more 16 year olds and less 20 year olds. Why? What is wrong with giving the 20 year old player the opportunity to earn a scholarship? Sometimes it takes a while. I am sure Senecal is glad he was able to play as a 20 year old along with those that were listed in another thread. Nothing against the 16 year old player, if they are good enough let them play. I just don't think we should be in a rush to close the door on 20 year old players if the want to play. Even if they don't get a scholorship there is value in being part of a team and hopefully positive memories for a lifetime.
I look forward to your thoughts.
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we should not limit twenty year olds that are eligible to play ncaa hockey as a lot of these players go on to play d1 or d3 hockey. most d3 schools in fact dont want the younger players as the average age at that level is older and they need the maturity of the recruit. an eighteen year old going to play against men that are twenty three or four is like the sixteen year olds in to ojhl playing against twenty year olds. they just arent strong enough in most cases.
i think if they want to limit twenty year olds they should limit the players coming back from major junior so the spots are there for scholarship opportunities. that is what this league is supposed to be all about.
just my opinion but as i work on a daily basis with the players and the schools, my slant is geared to that end.
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Are you saying that players with any OHL experience should not be allowed to play? Many kids try the O at 16 or 17 even 18 but fail to stick in the O. These kids still want play hockey and could be a great help in developing other kids as well as honing their hockey skills for semi pro and Canadian University hockey. Why do we just have to develope for the NCAA. we get no payments from these colleges for developing these kids. Why can't we develope kids for any form of upper level hockey???????
I will agree that grabbing 20 year olds from the O for the playoff runs is wrong, but players that have spent more than one season with an OJHL team should be allowed to finish his career with that team!!!!!!
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Alright my thoughts and believe me I know that this wouldn't be well recieved by a lot of people, but if you want to get this whole thing right a drastic overhaul of the current system is needed. Blow up the whole thing and create a fully integrated system built on geography.
Jr C for smaller remote rural centers/communities
Jr B for larger rural centers/communities
Jr A for large centers
Keep the Jr C teams close, the Jr B teams a bit further apart and the Jr A teams spread throughout southern ontarios major centers with each division aligned by proximitity/driving distance. Incorporate a schedule similar to that of the current NHL system where most games are played within division with at least everyteam playing each other in the regular season.
Affiliate the Jr A teams with respective Jr B teams and have it filter on down through the system so that players can only play within a respective geographical stream, barring a trade.
Estabilsh a clear set of league guidelines which are enforced, taking the power out of the hands of crooked/irresponsible owners. Standards for arena quality, ticket prices, pointstreak and gametime events are uniform across the league. Im not saying that every team needs to run exactly the same, but at least create standards and minimums so that theres at least some level of consistency and professionalism running throughout the league.
Im sure if a complete and integrated system was imposed by hockey canada or whoever the governing body is, the whole system would be more cohesive, legitimate and would ultimately further canadian jr hockey players overall.
Who knows, maybe if the league was more professionally operated, the government would kick in somekind of assistance. Im sure that sponsorship dollars would go up as a result of better attendance and fan support which would result from a better league product as a whole.
Maybe its unrealistic, I don't know, but a well oiled league would create new opportunities and garner more interest.
...and yes there are too many teams because the league is open to whoever can write a cheque.... create a system based on logic which is sure to work and then force ownerships to work within that system. A lot of the teams we're talking about would quickly fold and the caliber of hockey would go up.
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PUCKPIG
i was stating that if they want to limit twenty year olds then limit the ones coming back from major junior. not eliminate. not to limit the younger players that have played major junior. i work every option for every player and do not disregard cis in any way shape or form. i personally don't think the limits should be changed at all.
if we are to develop players and hope to move them on to the next level then the quality of the game must be as high as possible. we need the best players available to do that and that includes twenty year olds.
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Itis, if thats what it takes then yes they'd have a Jr C team. Is Wellington even in Canada?
and Im sure a lot of people wouldnt like a major overhaul, but my point is that a well laid out plan would ultimately bring more credibility to the league overall. Too much of the league is based on business rather than logistics. Get the system right first and then force owners to work within that.
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Losing money, 10's of thousands of dollars is the norm.
Loslobos, I have to disagree. I would have to say that about 40% of player spots are bought spots. IE donations,sponsorships etc. Most of the owners have big bussiness's behind them and $$$$. Losses are written off against other ventures. And if there was a $20,000 shortfall so what, thats the owners payment for buying his son into junior. I'm just tired of hearing how owners are losing money-they're not.
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I agree these owners are making money, its just not in Jr hockey. The GTA owners are definately losing money. If they can offset those loses somehow at tax time, power to them. But wouldn't it be better if clubs could support themselves so we wouldn't have to rely on rich daddy owners to keep the game alive in the GTA. I would guess teams like Huntsville, Kingston and Wellington with their run in the playoffs, local sponsorship and support are probably turning a bit of a profit this season. Shouldn't we be trying to get more clubs operating in centres that would embrace and support it. Perhaps then we could rely less and less on daddy to buy the club.
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Basing hockey rankings on geography & not talent. Oh no not that again. I think the Western Jr. B leagues have had enough of that stigma.
How about teams are ranked based on talent & not geographic location.
The problem isn't the rankings, nor the number of teams (although getting rid of a few wouldn't be bad). The real problem is BAD ownership & the "rent" a team ownership mentality.
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flatulates, talent would be (and ideally should always be) the number one factor when forming the teams, but have them spread out evenly and according to center size. As I said in the original post, make it so that JrA teams are affiliated with regions of jr B teams and so on down to jrZ. The cream rises to the top and plays in JrA, and then filters down accordingly. The result is a consistent system which would naturally promote better competition and easier scouting.
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Its funny how out of touch.......or in denial...Wingfan is..........the owners are taking a lot of under the table donations, sponsorships etc............everyone knows this....we all do.
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i'm not naive! i know it happens just ask fc! however not enough to make teams profitable.
now when the central boys start charging $1000.00 per player that will help.
trouble will be that the teams will not charge some kids and it will be a mess.
wait til a team gets caught not charging and paying the fees themselves.
thats another story..
soon we will not be able to compete with alberta or bc for the rbc as we will have a smaller bench, fewer 20 year olds and mandatory 16 year olds.
but that will be fine for the CHEAPSKATE central owners that accept mediocrity and competitivness within themselves ahead of trying to be the best in the country.
they should merge with the gmhl!!!
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There is a large legal reason why none of the teams in this league will ever be demoted to Jr. B or Jr. C.
Doing so for any team would significantly lower the resale value of that team, and the resulting lawsuit(s) are not anything the league wants to have anything to do with. After all, these owners, regardless of their motivation, have spent a lot of money on these teams, and lose a lot of money year after year. The way to recoup those losses is in the resale value. Take that away, and they have put in money for nothing, something nobody wants to do.
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The division into A, B, or C is all wrong. First of all, why should centre in Toronto get all the Jr. A teams. Nobody goes to see them play there. At least smaller centers like Huntsville has the fasn support to keep a Junior A franchise alive.Its sort of funny, the best players and nobody comes to watch!!!!Secondly, Junior B would't fly in smaller centers like Huntsville because they don"t supply enough talent to create a winning team. JR B only allows 4 imports, same as Jr. C.
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