Give or take a team or two, maybe three tops, the following is a fairly accurate look
into the future of what the Ontario Hockey Association's Junior Hockey world will look like;
Premiere Junior A League
Aurora Tigers Huntsville Muskoka Otters
New Market Hurricanes Peterborough Stars
Vaughan Vipers Villanova Knights
Oakville Blades Trenton Golden Hawks
Bramalea Blues The Great Dukes of Wellington
Buffalo Junior Sabres Collingwood Blues
Georgetown Raiders Markham Waxers
Hamilton Red Wings Kingston Kimco Voyagers
Commissioner: Status Quo
Development 1 Junior Hockey
All relegated Junior B teams
and
Bowmanville Eagles
Mississauga Chargers
Stouffville Spirit
Whitby Fury
Milton IceHawks
Commissioner: Status Quo
Pay as you Play AAA Junior / Development II
Brampton Capitols St. Michael's Buzzers
Burlington Cougars Toronto Dixie Bee Hives
North York Rangers Streetsville Derby's
Upper Canada Hockey Toronto Junior Canadiens
Lindsay Muskies Cobourg Cougars
Commissioners: Mike McCarron / Mark Mercier
Junior C or Non-Existent / Development III
Ajax Attack Couchiching Terriers
Pickering Panthers Sequin Bruins
Orangeville Crushers Lindsay Muskies
and existing junior C & D programs that will continue to operate
Commissioner: Murray Parliment
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SMC57 ..... just an opinion, don't really have any insights, just a few conversations
with a few in the know guys, but I would think a fairly accurate opinion between
now and this time next year
get over it Sharpie, you have one opinion too, just not sure how informed and to often inaccurate
Tigers look good again this year
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"just an opinion, don't really have any insights, just a few conversations with a few in the know guys"
Yep. That beats my weekly face-to-face conversations, and almost daily e-mail communications, with people who are attending the meetings, as well as those who have vested interests as scouts at higher levels. Sorry, my opinion cannot possibly be an informed one. My network in hockey cannot possibly compare to "a few in the know guys".
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The Premier League that you list would be great if it happened, especially with some of the original Central teams, Newmarket, Wellington, Markham and Hamilton back in the fold as per your scenario. I know I take a lot of digs at the Dukes, much of it in jest, but they are a very successful organization and it would be great to have them back in with Aurora, Huntsville and the rest.
It's going to be very interesting come the 2010/11 season that's for sure.
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Now, now leave all you little boys alone in the sandbox unsupervised, and all you do is throw things and have little hissy fits.
Let it go people, this is not constructive, and certainly benefits no one. Air out your dirty laundry in your own glass houses.
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All I am saying is that the original post here is inaccurate.
The OHA has already stated that since the Ontario Conference teams have turned their back, that the OJHL no longer exists. However, what they and HC have decided is that the Central and Ontario conferences will operate as separate Jr. A leagues. The type of restructuring as described in this thread is totally false.
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There is a shred of truth in the original thread, but not relating to the placement of teams in categories I don't believe the OHA has any plans to relegate anyone.
The three tier concept - premier, D1, D2 - is from the Tomorrow's Game project. Each level has a suggested template of what teams need to do to be successful at that level in various aspects of their operations - on-ice, financial, promotions, facilities, etc.
There may be some recategorization among A and B, in essence premier and D1, but it will be up to individual teams to slot themselves and it appears to me now, the leagues will likely be similar to what they are other than discussion of merging C and D hockey.
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What exactly does the OHA offer other than another level of burucracy? Groups of teams form a league and then submit to the OHA to be accepted. Why can't a group go directly to the OHF much like the Northern leagues and the CJHL.
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looking back through the "axxer" history. 'whateveritis' had an opinion of that poster's angle some time last year...that seems to fit.
lets face it the classic seems to have a combative disdain for the oha and the tight compliance regimen coming down. thats why they forced the split in to two leagues and why after demanding "togetherness and all the teams back together" they changed their minds. they lost control of the league to the central minded teams.
this post was meant as to nothing more to "divide" the central stir up meaningless crap and "relegate" the founders of the central to an imaginary bottom of the heap.
sorry axxer...your mythology is wrong. if you go back, as much as you hate it, i have been pretty accurately predicting what may happen. tomorrow's game is not yet cast, but the classic is heading in the opposite direction right now...looking back at yesterday's game. that could change but in hockey horse races the central had a head start by a year towards tomorrows game and they are still writing the book to make their model tomorrow's game.
$$PM87$$
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In a nutshell.The Central Conference forced the OHA's hand plain & simple.With the power of the 21 team votes there was nothing in their way.When the OHA was informed the Central was preparing a new Constitution that would undoubtedly pass, they (OHA) knew they had problems.With or without the OHA,the old Ontario side & even Hockey Canada the power in Jr A hockey in Ontario is still within the 21 teams(Central) .The decision by the courts deeming the GMHL a legal enterprise opens the door for many opportunities for the Central Conference which I believe now is a new league.
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the central could never make constitution changes without at least support of all their 21 teams plus some of teams in the classic/ontario conference. constitional changes required 2/3 vote of member teams. 21 is not 2/3. so your 'constitutional' claim is bogus.
you are partially right on one aspect, they did have the strength to run the day to day business of the ojhl. that left the classic/ontario at the mercy of the central (tee hee!) and their policies how ironic! the classic didnt want to play ball (or puck) with the central. when nothing was left to do...and the oha needing to act they disolved the ojhl and created two new leagues made up of the member teams of the o(p)jhl.
$$PM87$$
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If what you say is correct, then what many of us feared has happened. The Central 'experiment' has suceeded in ripping the league that we purport to love into pieces. That some of you seem to be celebrating this because your side 'won' beggars belief.
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OK, so after all the smoke clears, it would appear that we are left with two leagues, the Central and the Ontario.
So, how does this effect the Dudley Hewitt?
Will the two leagues play each other in a final series to earn a place in the Dudley? or will they operate as two totally separate leagues, as the two Northern leagues do now, with the winner of each league going directly to the Dudley, thus increasing the number of teams to five including the host team.
Anyone know or is all this still up in the air because of recent changes.
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In the wonderful world of hockey governing bodies, nothing will change regarding the Dudley Hewitt, since both leagues will be under the OHA umbrella. We'll simply revert back to the way it was in late 90's when the Metro League and Provincial League winners would play off for the Buckland Cup (OHA Championship). The winner will represent the OHA at the Dudley.
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YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. THE OJHL IS ALIVE AND WELL AND WILL BE AROUND FOR YEARS TO COME. THERE
VERY WELL COULD BE MORE TEAMS IN THE OJHL.
THERE IS A LOT OF BULL ON THIS FORM, PRESENTED BY PEOPLE WHO
ARE VERY GULLIBLE.
WAIT AND SEE HOW THINGS TRANSPIRE IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE.
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So what happens when all 36 teams plus half the B teams decide they can meet the OHA's operating standards for the Premier league. So far all I have heard is they have a template and the teams can decide where they fit in. We already have too many A teams is it possible under the new plan to have even more teams at the top tier? If so, back to the drawing board.
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"If what you say is correct, then what many of us feared has happened. The Central 'experiment' has suceeded in ripping the league that we purport to love into pieces. That some of you seem to be celebrating this because your side 'won' beggars belief."
That's where you are wrong. I mourn the loss of the OJHL as much as you do. It upsets me that the Ontario Conference refused to work towards any compromise or betterment of Jr. A hockey, and took a ball that wasn't even theirs and went home. They basically put their tail between their legs, and THAT is what resulted in the ripping apart of the league, not anything the Central did. The Central was not the Conference that refused to attend meetings or threatened to withhold their OHA and HC fees if they did not get their own way. The Ontario Conference did that.
Now, Jr. A hockey will move forward, with all of the improvements that the Central has made to it in place. Do I wish that would have happened with the Ontario Conference teams involved and working together to improve the league as a whole? Of course I do. But the OC decided to force the league to divide, so we have to deal with what we have. I, for one, will enjoy being a part of TRUE Jr. A hockey, run by visionaries with high operating standards, real accountability, and legitimate credibility.
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Sharpie, as so often lately, you have completely missed the point.
It doesn't matter whose "fault" it is, the result is what matters. By introducing the split last year instead of trying to persuade the majority of teams by logical argument and then using the democratic process, the 'experiment' of last season, whatever its merits (or lack of, depending on your point of view), has led to a broken league.
And if you are mourning the result, then why assume my comments were aimed at you? I was actually thinking of PM87 when I wrote that, since he seems to be revelling in the damage done.
And BTW, all this talk of the OC teams not attending meetings - isn't that what the CD teams did early last season when they were in the minority?
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"So what happens when all 36 teams plus half the B teams decide they can meet the OHA's operating standards for the Premier league."
Then let them all play at that level. If all 36 teams had been meeting a standard of excellence in terms of operations, and that means spending money in certain areas such as scouting, practice time, proper equipment, education assistance that is accessible to players, etc., then the league wouldn't have been in the mess it was even with 36 teams. The trouble was that there were no such standards in place, and so every team was able to run things however they wanted...and far too many tried to run their teams on the cheap, and still others mismanaged the money in order to free up funds to pay players exorbitant sums of money, etc., to the detriment of the entire league. It's funny that those teams are the ones who fought the Central the hardest, not wanting to actually be held accountable for the way they run their team, and the same teams which have fractured the league now.
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Sharpie, please change the record, your repetition is driving everyone crazy.
"and far too many tried to run their teams on the cheap and still others mismanaged $$$$ in order to free up funds to pay players exorbitant sums of $$$$".
Don't look now Sharpie my boy, but most of those teams that you refer to are now in the Central.
By the way since by your own admission, you are so close to the Central scene answer me the following:
1) How many Audited Financial Statements has the Central received to date for the 2008/09 season.
2) How many signed and duly witnessed Declarations did they receive and file during the 2008/09 season.
Since nobody seems to want to answer the above, I thought with your vast knowledge of the Central scene with your "face to face" regular meetings with people and scouts who know all, maybe you could shed some light on the matter.
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"By the way since by your own admission, you are so close to the Central scene answer me the following:
1) How many Audited Financial Statements has the Central received to date for the 2008/09 season.
2) How many signed and duly witnessed Declarations did they receive and file during the 2008/09 season."
The answer is that ALL of the above have been submitted in its entirety. The Central Division would have taken swift and decisive action had any team NOT submitted everything. The Central is all about full disclosure. Had all of it not been submitted and included in the reports filed to the OHA and HC, then the Central would have ceased to exist this year, as per their agreement when it was instituted as a pilot project.
I think the reason nobody actually responded to you before on this is that your insinuation that all appropriate documentation was not submitted is completely ludicrous and not worthy of comment.
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I'm not insinuating anything, they are simple questions.
If the Central is up front with everything, then what is the problem with someone answering my question? an honest answer would only produce more credibility for the Central. Your answer only indicates to me that you don't know squat about it.
I know players and parents that did not sign Declarations last season in the Central.
Interesting that you make no comment on the "cheap/mismanaged" teams that are now part of the Central, including your Ajax organization.
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Sharp - the main problem was too many A teams which resulted in a watered down league that scouts were starting to stay away from. At the end of the day the league (whatever that is) needs to reduce the number of teams. So letting them all in is rediculous.
Having ownership standards and trying to crack down on paying of players is great. But if the OHA plan leads to more A level teams then the quality of hockey will continue to decline. The GTA despartely needs a B level.
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"the main problem was too many A teams which resulted in a watered down league that scouts were starting to stay away from"
Again, the problem was not too many teams. The talent is out there to fill the teams. The problem was that too many teams were not spending the resources to properly scout the talent. The teams wanting to operate on a shoestring would stick to a very limited pool of talent in their own immediate vicinity, while others that wanted to operate lazily would not bother to scout talent but would rather pay an overager from the OHL to come to their team instead of scouting and cultivating talent. Had all teams operated according to a strict standard, talent in the league never would have been a problem.
And yes, SMC, isn't it wonderful that many of the teams who were previously guilty of the exact problems I was talking about have agreed to put those philosophies behind them and move forward, making themselves accountable for real change and improvement in hockey? It's a shame that teams like your Tigers don't have the courage to be held accountable the same way.
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Give me a break. Now you sound like some of those old boys!! There are most definately too many teams and not enough talent to put together 36 competitve Jr A teams. There aren't that many OHL overagers taking spots away from all these teams.
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This Jr A business is all messed up. No leadership from no one. Pardon my English. From the under the table money changing hands,to the players being signed that have no business being there, to the U.S dads buying their kids onto teams up here-because they can't make it down there, to the vast majority of owners with kids that couldn't or barely made AAA in minor(Sharpie-did you hear that one) and to the micky mouse operations being run in I would say in about a third of the teams. Just a lovely hockey setup.
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Why is it that every year the learned OHA Executive continues to apply lipstick to a pig with these various proposals?
Until the number of so-called "Jr.A." teams is reduced from 36 to the 22-24 range, the status quo will remain.
Simply put, there are too many teams and not enough Jr.A. level/capable players to fill 3 solid lines like you'd see in the early 1990's.
A solution of "buying out" 12-14 teams sounds easy, but the OHA has already spent the franchise fees they received for these extraneous clubs so a refund isn't plausible. The yachts were purchased years ago and simply can't be liquidated into refund cash to the franchisees holding a $250,000 team.
Until a contraction is made at the OHA board table through some sort of purging of weaker sisters (and no, creating another level of Jr.B. won't work either), this situation will exist in 5 years.
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Nothing will change unless there is power and leadership at the OJAHL,CENTRAL,ONTARIO or- whatever friggin name you want to give the league each year-Head Office. Right now this is a league run by the owners, for the owners with now power whatsoever at head office. Nothing will change. No wonder the only schools coming up and giving scholys are micky mouse low level schools.
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I think that those who are saying there are too many teams are barking up the wrong tree. There IS enough talent out there capable of playing at a high level at Jr. A, it just has never been properly scouted and therefore hasn't been found. But there is more than enough talent to fill the 36 teams, and possibly 20 or so Jr. B teams as well to develop for the 36, if the teams spend their money on scouting and development the way they should be.
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To simply say that there is enough talent to fill the roster of 36 Jr A teams and have this so-called acceptable level of talent is just plain idiotic my friend.
I have followed this Jr A level for the past 10 years(including the Priority draft) and I can tell you that you are so far off the mark when it comes to the discussion of available talent. So many factors are to blame for this but a simple look at the stats section of point streak will highlight my point.
When a team dresses 18 skaters each game for 49 games, first off thats a lot of hockey. However, the league produced only approx. 108 players with a point/gm average. Thats 3 players per team. 21 teams had that average. 11 teams had 1 player or less. 16 teams had 4/team. And only 9 teams had 6+ players with a pt/gm avg.
THATS A LACK OF DEPTH. Most teams run primarily TWO lines. The rest of the bench, on some teams, are treated like spare parts on a shelf. Don`t believe me, take a long look at the way the "lack of talent" has affected Midget Hockey and its none existent depth chart. All of it watered down my friend.
"Haves" and "Have Nots" is the order of the day in most competitive AAA or Junior hockey circles from 16 yrs old and up. No one runs 4 lines anymore. Very few develop anymore. The proof is in the decreasing number of QUALITY scholarships being given out. Teams can promote whatever propaganda they want, but if it wasn't about the money, you would see better quality at and better run rookie camps. Not the crap you see now.
No my friend, if you keep this number of teams, either bite the bullet and start some better development initiatives for the future or fold up your tents. The bandaid approach of buying and selling of "the snipers" can only work for a few teams. If an owner was really serious about this, listen to me, then they would suck it up and draw out a plan. The amount of money being lost every year without teams moving forward kills me to see.
Leadership from the OHA is the first step, if the owners don't take their own individual step to address their own problems. I can't imagine many owners are happy campers with the state of Junior Hockey these days.
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coach morton has hit the nail on the head.
fewer well run top competitive junior A teams fed by developement teams like the central division is what will fix this problem and develop top players...
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So again what is the problem if you put the 16yr old back into the water down midget and let them play and play and play in stead of sitting on the bench in Jr A. If they are good enough their time will come will it not? Well put Corner Coach.
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