Just got off the phone with a friend out east ont...he tells me the rumours are misleading and McKarron is full of hot air.

The smaller group of Ontario conference teams will be operating as the OJHL and the new Central is being renamed and becoming a minor league system for the Ontario...or at least that the plan over the next few years.

The OHA wants all the premier players in a smaller league and this is hows its being done.

Your friend misled you or is misinformed. The Central is the model the OHA wants for Jr. A moving forward. More importantly, it is the model Hockey Canada wants for Jr. A nationwide going forward.

Either your friend is misinformed, or you are trying to stir it up. Either way, your information as posted here is false.

Is your friend on good drugs,because think before you come on this forum with lies and crap in regards to this league.. the Ontario & Central are on even ground in talent just some other rules between divisions,any team can show up another no matter what division they are in,think twice before you come on here and talk BS it does not look good for an Ontario Division supporter!!

As you would say Wellington sucks because they are not in your beloved Ontario Div. BS!

GROW UP!

Well said, Spiritfan. The absolute, unshakable truth is that there is good and bad in every league, everywhere. If there wasn't, everyone in every league would end up finishing at exactly .500 every season, and every game would go into a shootout. The OC and CC are no different.

It is sad to say that any team in the OJHL Ontario Division is far more talented then the Wellington Dukes!!

I guess they are all on the same drugs called......Stupid as i am! $1.00 per pill open market.

Let me understand what the poster said,the Central is a call up to the Ontario Division......Um did i here this wright....let me think,the Ontario is a Premier Jr"A"League from the Central Division LOL!

Almost all Ontario Division players are near overaged players with little chance of not only making an OHL club, but no chance of getting on an NHL club or even NCAA....WOW!

I would think if a kid is talented in the game at 16 years old, and the family has interest in their sons future....why would they put their son in a no win situation with a Ontario Division club,dont make sense when they he can develope in a Jr"A"League like the Central, and learn more through better coaching in the Central than overagers in a last ditch chance in making it somewhere....dont make sense!

Central is the new Jr"A"League by far, and the Ontario Division is putting high "HOPES and Dreams" on players in their league saying they will have higher chances making NCAA or the NHL.....Bullcrap!

Your wright Hockeydan,the Ontario is a last ditch situation for the 19 & 20 year olds for sure,its to bad that the new Central rules only allow so many 20 year olds on the roster,but we all know the younger players have better chanches making it than the 19 or 20 year olds knowen fact!

Good luck to the Central League moving in the wright direction for young players for the future!!

wow im not real smart...but i cant be this stupid...i said the PLAN was a tiered developmental league...not right now !! and i know from the Jr B guys that its being implimented over the next few years by the OHA...

Ontario full of overagers nobodies eh? lets see from some quick look at rosters, oh BCHL top 5 teams in league, average # of 20 yr olds 7....Wellington last year 9...5 teams at random from Central...4.2 20 yr olds.....5 teams from random Ontario last year 4.6 20 yr olds....average age of random 10 D1 comitments made to OPJHL players last year just over 19 yrs of age....

and ya if your a parent and want your 16 yr old to develop, stick him in a league where the competition is lower and its not as tough to play...he might do better....IF your really concerned about his development put him back in midget where he'll get the babying he'll (or you maybe) need....man make the hockey the BEST it can be and let the players regardless of age PLAY...sim

Wellington was a great team last year, no arguments man....oh oh hmmm they had 8 20 yr olds...

im not an Ontario supporter at all...in fact the only team i watch is now in the Central...I prefer OHL over any of this....

so Hockey Canada is supporting the Central ? wow...wouldnt think they would support a group trying to change their rules and guidlines re 16 yr olds...and cant believe Hockey Canada has publicaly supported the Central with so much up in the air....im going to give them an email and ask why ?

with regards to 16 yr olds i read some of the stuff here and cant believe the stupidity....if you open up more 16 yr old spots the quality of the game will be reduced..call it development or whatever but there are not many 16 yr olds ready to play at this level...why not have them "develop" at another year of midget ? i dont get it.....AND i know for a fact as my nephew and brother both played D1 that most D`1 schools are looking for the 19 and 20 yr olds...D1 is extremely competitive, just look at the ages of kids going D1 from last year from this league and the BC league....vast majority 19 and 20 yr olds

to say an adequate 20 yr old is taking the spot of a potential 16 yr old is just stupid...

hey sharp head...do you know for a fact that this info is false ? i never said it was written in stone anywhere, its just what i heard...and reading thru a few posts here i see your a Central team employee !!!!! lol...no wonder your so adamant about it being false...im here for some good discussion not to be lecture to be a wannabe...unless your sitting at the OHA table, shut up about "knowing" its false...

Are you saying Crosby could not play at the Major Junior level at 15 years old,seems to me he has a Stanley Cup Ring now, and at the age of 14 every junior club in Canada wanted him not counting the NHL clubs in North America.

So after saying this Central is going in the best direction for young players as it would of been for Crosby and look at him now!

Lets move on the manwithnoplan has got the wright plan nothing!! what a dip****!

My information is from a source at the OHA office during an off-the-record conversation that came up while I was phoning about something unrelated. This person, if I named them, would have credibility with people on these forums.

The fact is, and this is a universal truth in all sports, that players do not develop to their full potential playing against inferior opposition. I know, I have been a high performance athlete, all through high school I played baseball and wrestled. 16 year olds that are good enough to play in Jr. A do not get any benefit at all from playing an extra year in midget. It actually stunts their development and their readiness for Jr. A when they do make the jump suffers dramatically.

That being said, they also do not benefit from signing with a Jr. A club just to practice with the team and sit in the stands watching as 19 and 20 year olds play.

Jr. A ice time is the way to develop these kids into the best possible 19 and 20 year olds they can be down the road, no questions asked.

Hockey Canada is impressed with the Central Division. They like the development model, but more importantly they LOVE the business model that the Central puts forth. They love that the Central, when faced with a team breaking the rules, did not get bogged down with bureaucracy, but took swift and decisive action against the individual responsible. If that had been under the OJHL leadership and one of the teams outside the Central had broken the rules, it would have been swept under the rug, or lost in a shuffle of paperwork. The fact is, in the Central, all teams were held accountable to the business model, and it is a business model that the Central developed with the direct supervision of Hockey Canada in the first place.

I hope this answers your concerns as to my knowledge of the topic. Thanks.

its funny how it always goes which league is better. All that was mentioned was that Mccarron from st Mikes went on record today that the two leagues are going different ways....one of the main reasons for the Central is to try and curb paying of overage ex ohl players that take up roster spots of younger players. Younger not meaning 16yr olds but 17 and 18 yr olds that may still have a chance to develop if given a chance.

The central will also use same busing and equipment companies to try and bring down costs. The teams are required to have a league first mentality.I guess we will see how everything goes. Funny though how a lot of naysayers said central will fold after last season and now they have 21 teams on board. I guess the idea isnt that bad.



Mccarron did not bash the ontario division he just said the two leagues have different philosophies...lets just leave it at that

Well said.

Am I missing something here? Jr. A hockey is a buiness. Were is the profit in developing 16 year olds for the ncca or even the "O". The ncca returns nothing to the ojhl for developing players for them. The O pays $1500. This does not pay for the billeting of a player for a season. Sure its a feather in the teams cap to produce a skilled player who recieves a scolarship or advances through the major Jr. system, but FEATHERS DON'T PAY THE BILLS. What am I missing?
Something I have noticed is the dramatic increase of US kids in the system and the central has more than its share(I smell money grab). How come we are not complaining about all these American kids taking our Canadian kids spots (probably 16 year old US kids replacing our 19 and 20 year old Canadian kids.
A few years ago we stopped using European and east European kids because of this very reason, taking over canadian kids spots. The US is no longer a have not country as far as hockey is concerned. Maybe its time we started to at least limit their numbers. Last years RBC champs had 6 or 7 americans on their team.

In case you didn't see it on the other forum, Central Hockey posted:

Re: OPJHL no longer exists July 24 2009, 11:33 PM


I can confirm it is 100% correct. On June 29th the OHA Board of Directors passed a motion dividing the former OJHL in to two leagues.

The split remains the same - 21 teams follow the Central Divison pilot model, 15 teams following a status quo model.

At this time you will understand I cannot go in to further details, but as soon as I can, I will. Thanks for your patience.



So two leagues, not two divisions of the same league.

you make great point......i think fans want to see the best possible hockey on the ice...regardless of age...when you restrict player in the name of development but dont get paid and reduce the quality of the game, i dont get it

wonder how the OHL is so successful, they barely play 16 yr olds..make them sit in stands, etc....AND they get paid huge development feees by NHL...they seem to be doin just fine....under the "Central" menality they are a terrible model...

It never made sense to have one league with two divisions with different rules.

The rebirth of Metro is complete just as the junta leadership hoped.

More coming.

your junta analogy presupposes that there was a leadership of some kind to replace. as far as i understood a black hole was keeping the opjahl going in circles for years.

apparently you can exert enough energy to break free from the clutches of a black hole. two new leagues spun out of the black hole called opjhl-2008 with the energy that the central put out last year!

i wonder if the HST got a pic of that momentus event!



$$PM87$$

wonder if the HST got a pic of that momentus event!


What it saw was"" the buck stops here""

PM87, if there was no leadership before, surely a bit of effort could have led to a peaceful revolution instead of a civil war?

Being two leagues now, does that now mean that the release-return rule has changed?

The Defending Central Canada and OJHL Champion Kingston Voyageurs had just five full time 20 year olds last season.

Also had:
- 5 NCAA Division 1 scholorships
- 2 Players to CIAU teams
- 1 Pro Contract signing
- 1 Drafted in the first round of the OHL
- 1 Player Drafted to the NHL


That doesn't sound like a team full of 20 year olds where players have no chance of moving on anywhere. The Vees were succussful and moved players on too.

Brandon Pirri was also taken in the second round of the NHL draft from an Ontario Conference team.
Not too shabby for teams that are supposedly have no way to move on from

Well said, Fossil30.

The Aurora Tigers also had only five 20 year olds last season and several of them have moved on to scholarships in the US. As of now I don't believe the Cats will have more than five 20 year olds this season.

"Dead end" league, hardly.

The "dead end" league mantel comes only from Central backers and is of course totally unfounded. With 21 teams in the Central next season, it won't take long to find out who the "dead end" league is going to be.

You have proven the point of the Central model with Kingston:
Breakdown their team:

20 - 5
19 - 4
18 - 12
17 - 2
16 - 1
15 - 1 He was a minor midget who played an important role. Because Kingston went as far as they did solidified his value.

Why do you need 9 20 year olds to win a championship, Kingston just proved you don't. It is not about the Ontario or Central division, it is about talent on the ice and the way it is developed.

Ask HC why you need 9/20 year olds.

It's HC's rule not the rules of the Ontario Division, the OJAHL chooses to play under HC's rules.

Now there's a new concept!!

twist and shout..your motto smc57?

HC rules stipulate MAX 9 twenty year old players. not require 9...

$$PM87$$

PM, I believe the Central's rule last season was 7/20 year olds maximum per team, not 7 required as you say.

Whatever it was, the Central Champion Wellington Dukes had the maximum number of 20 yr olds and I'm sure that they will have the maximum number of 5/20 yr olds this season.

SO WHAT"S YOUR POINT??????

Are trying to say that it's OK for the Central teams to follow their rules to the maximum, but it's not OK for the OJAHL to follow HC's rules to the maximum???

That's not what he said at all. The point he was making is that it is ridiculous for people to say that the Central model is not following the rules of HC. They are, in fact, not doing anything at all that breaks the rules or changes the rules of HC in any way. The OJAHL teams are welcome to use as many 20 year olds as they want, up to HC rules of 9. If the time comes that HC changes their rules to bring it in line with the Central model, as they want to do, will the OJAHL teams comply without complaint? Not likely. We'll see a huge legal battle, I'm sure.

Not that this matters. I am confident that having two distinct Jr. A leagues, each with their own flavour and brand of hockey will be better for hockey in Ontario in the long run. Good luck to the OJAHL this season.

Well said Sharpie

Is this a new Sharpie? Surely the old Sharpie said he was quitting the forum...

Listen to the message, rather than malign the messanger.

"Messanger" ?????

LOL

Ya, that's the Southern in me. Nudge, wink, wink.

I myself look at the new OJAHL as an Junior Juvenile league,its all the 20 year olds last season,and if they dont produce this year it may be over for them,as for the Central all players have time to move on at the junior level and also being drafted or get NCAA scholarships.

Only my 2 cents!

Sharpie is right. It gives the 20yr olds a place to show off their stuff and make the last ditch effort to rise to the next level - NCAA, CIS, etc. Keeping a higher number of 20 year olds can also help elevate a game - especially in the case of goaltenders. Goaltenders tend to develop later than the skaters so it is a good forum for them.

theres nothing wrong with trying new things for the betterment of the game...but many of the new rules being wanted in eg 4 16 yr olds, mandatory facemasks, mandated playing time, restriction of 20 yr olds and thier movement, etc.....are not in working with the Hockey Canada development model...every junior league in Canada can effectively operate within the model...why does this group think they can change it and the HC will want to have anything to do with it...are they that arrogant or are they truly more knowledgable than HC ?

Actually, HC DOES want something to do with it. HC loves this development model, and more importantly, they saw a business model that holds its teams accountable to business standards and ethics that HC has wanted to see for some time in Jr. A Hockey.

sharpie!!! you're going away from your promotions responsibilities again. stick to your job cause this argument is over and with the 15 team ontario junior a league in place, if you just do your job then in a year or two maybe you will be ready to get to the next level yourself so dont bite the hand that may be feeding you down the road.

They are that "arrogant" plain and simple and you can add "power hungry" and "self serving" to the mix.

They think they know more about hockey than the governing body that they play under. If that isn't "arrogance" "power hungry" and "self serving" then I don't know what is.

Thank God the new OJAHL is now a league on their own with only 15 teams, something that has been long overdue.

Hey, I fully agree. It is fantastic to have two Jr. A level hockey leagues operating. Best thing that could have happened out of this. Good luck to the OJAHL. Let's see some great hockey!!!

what will be great for junior hockey is when they implement the real junior a and the development league next year.
what we've always needed is fewer well run well financed teams that will ice the best possible teams possible and be able to compete for the national championship against the other junior a leagues.
when the dust settles it will be a much better product and hopefully once and for all let us just enjoy going to a good competitive top level game on most nights.
we will get a glimpse of that this year in the ontario junior a league and hopefully when the top central teams join in after this year then it will be settled.

Arrogance, condescension, and a complete lack of class.

The fact, no matter how you choose to spin it, is that both sides will be Jr. A, both sides will be incredibly competitive, and both sides will provide a champion that will be equally likely to advance to the Dudley.

Your continued arrogance, condescension, and outright lies are your absolute worst qualities, and if you ever bothered to even attempt to form an intelligent opinion then you would be a much better person for it.

As it is, you will continue to have my pity.

you keep straying from your job. last week you said you would not get drawn in and would only comment on positive things related to your team.

You continue to have my pity.

You have already predetermined that the Ontario division will the premiere division. What if the Central model shows to be the better system? The main sticking point has been the restriction of 20 year olds from 9 to 5, and the number of 19 year olds. You have to ask yourself is the truthfully, are the 20 year olds 6 to 9 as good as the best 18 year olds.
Interesting Georgetown only had 4 20 year olds, Kingston 5, Peterborough 5, all had good seasons.
Question is will teams be better balanced with only 5 20 year olds. We will know at the end of the season.
Good luck to all the teams in both leagues.

Shoeless, that is exactly right.

The truth is, no matter how much the few try to spin it, is that both systems are going to produce some amazing Jr. A hockey.

The problem I have is that the few who post their arrogant crap on here are ruining the entire perception of the OJAHL. None of the actual teams echo the sentiments of wingfan, SMC, or those who are so bloody arrogant about it on here.

To both leagues, and all 36 teams, good luck and best wishes for a terrific, safe, and successful season.

I agree with Sharpie, there will be good hockey in both leagues, no question. No league will be better then the other. But sharpie to call SMC or Wingfan arrogant, please, we're all arrogant on here.

i dont say you need 9 20 year olds nor do i say you need to dress 2 16 year olds.
you simply put the best team on the ice every night within the hockey canada guidelines so you are doing justice to the paying fans (like me) and not disciminating. thats all . i like a lot of what the central does as far as transperancy pooling purchasing power video etc just try and ice the best product every night. you cant do that when you impose restictions on deserving veteran players that still want to further their career and doing so by playing undeserving 16 year olds that take their spots.
ithink even sharpie should appreciate that!

And I would say that the "KING OF ARROGANCE" is without question, the "SHARPMAN" or better known as "SHARPIE">

Sharpie you have no idea what you sound like, it is totally embarrasing coming from someone who claims to have 14 years experience in Junior "A" hockey and has moderated 50 Forums in those short 14 years, something that I and probably most on these Forums find hard to believe. Let's see 50 divided by 14 equals around 3.5 Forums per year. Come on "Sharpman" who are you trying to kid.

Can we have the names of these 50 Forums????

"doing so by playing undeserving 16 year olds"

This is where it is arrogant. Because as has been posted on here many, many times, and completely ARROGANTLY ignored by some, with the three of you leading the way, it is not about giving the spots to undeserving 16 year olds. It is about ensuring that DESERVING 16 year olds are getting their playing time, rather than being sat in the stands watching UNDESERVING 20 year olds play, or being sent down to midget where they shouldn't be.

You three continue to state that it is about giving the time to undeserving players, when it isn't. If you are going to post, please post intelligently and accurately, or else it comes across as arrogant.

I pity all three of you, honestly. All three of you are in my prayers, that God will replace your arrogance with maturity and wisdom.

sharpie you must slow down and read the post.
i said UNDESERVING . if a 16 year old is good enough to play and own a spot on the team then i'm all for it!
by mandating that you MUST dress them then you are not necessarily taking the best available players and putting the best team on the ice each night!!
get your head around the two words mandate and undeserving then argue til the cows come home!!!

Well then you are contradicting yourself.

You say you have no problem with deserving players getting the ice time, and yet you have a problem with DESERVING 16 year olds being mandated ice time, rather than being held back and stunted in their development. It is a complete contradiction.

What the Central is doing is not what you are saying, and mandating ice time for undeserving 16 year olds, that is a complete fabrication of your own creation. They are mandating ice time for DESERVING 16 year olds who are good enough to play. They are mandating that the best, most competitive teams be iced, which means not holding back the 16 year olds that are good enough to play and make the team better.

Try wrapping your head around that, and quit ignoring the truth and the facts.

I think that is one of the problems. There isn't enough good 16 year olds to play at a high level of Jr A hockey. Can some play, sure, but imagine if all 21 teams carried four 16 year olds. What happens to Midget hockey. I thought Midget hockey was to develope kids to play Jr. I believe that these two leagues are here for a year or two at most. When the premier league starts there will be some teams from both leagues in it. There will be many who fall into the development league though. There are many teams that will not be able to financially compete in the premier league.

And see, this perfectly illustrates the difference between a well-developed rebuttal point, as posted here, and arrogant posts as usually posted by SMC, wingfan, et al...this point is well thought out, and posted as the poster's OPINION. What is arrogant about when the other guys post is that they post their own opinion, but spew it as fact...which gives the impression that they truly believe that they have a sole monopoly on truth and accuracy.

That is what bugs me about those two.

As to this post, I appreciate your thoughts. However, I disagree that there aren't enough good sixteen year olds to fill Jr. A rosters. I firmly believe that there are, and the perception has always been that there is not solely because of how they have been used. The ones that are legitimately capable of playing have traditionally been carded by Jr. A teams and sat in the stands while overagers who are not always as good have been handed the ice time for no other reason than their age. And this is why the Central model will work. The old way has worked too, and will continue to work for the OJAHL I am sure. But to say that either way is "better" than the other is lunacy...not only is it too early to tell, it is completely inaccurate because both ways are going to be equally good for winning championships and developing players...the difference, I believe, will prove to be in the business model, which is a night and day comparison. The accountability and standards laid out by the Central Division will, and already have begun to, clean up the business end of hockey.

Thanks for FINALLY somebody offering legitimate and intelligent debate and rebuttal.

you are not capable of understanding that mandating 2 16 year olds is wrong!!! if they are good enough to play then they will make the team without having to mandate it as a rule.

Hey Wingman, agree best players play, but being a 19 or 20 year old does not mean better.
If you are going to be a 16 or 17 year old that is going to sit on the bench, maybe an extra year at midget or Junior C would be your best option.
I believe the new mandate is to give the top 16 year olds more opportunity to play at the Junior level, remember OHL teams can only carry 4 16 year olds. As for 20 year olds, I doubt the last 4 are any better than the a 17 or 18 year old coming up. What this also does is it means the best of the 20 year olds are better distributed throughout the league, and that would improve all the teams.
As for Sharpie, you need to tune it down, you are letting your emotions get the better of you, as for SMC57 you need to stop, you sound bitter and grumpy, which I don't believe you are like in person. I believe there is a white house one block south of Yonge and Steeles, maybe you and Sharpie can go and have a beer there.

i'm just against mandating. it has nothing to do with what age anyone is. if you want to develop players then put the best possible team on the ice every night. thats the way to develop them.
a year in midget will not hurt the 16 year olds and if they truly are the best of the allowed number of players you have on your team then play them all they can handle but if they arent then they should sit. thats the way it should be.

"a year in midget will not hurt the 16 year olds"

This is inaccurate. A year in midget will not hurt many 16 year olds, but 16 year olds that are ready to play Jr. A will be hurt and have their development stunted by being forced to play an extra year in midget. High level athletes need to play against superior competition in order to develop properly.

You can say you are against "mandating", whatever that means, but I would wager a goodly portion of my salary that you would not be against mandating if the OJAHL suddenly decided that they were mandating that each team must ice 9 overagers every game and that 16 year olds are not to play. I get the feeling that that pronouncement would be met with tremendous approval from you.

By the way, wingfan, that was a well presented, intelligent post. You stated your opinion as such, and didn't try to commandeer a monopoly on your version of the truth being the only version. I might be able to actually enjoy debating hockey with you yet.

That's what I enjoy, and that is what is most productive. Because only out of HEALTHY discussion and debate can real, significant improvements be made.

Sharpie, all of a sudden Wingfan is getting into your good books.

All throughout this thread you have been calling him "arrogant" along with several other less than complimentary words and phrases and insinuating that he knows less than zero about Junior "A" hockey.

You are like a squirrel running around in circles all day in a panic looking for a nut and making no sense at all. In this case both the "Squirrel" and the "Nut" is you.

Make up your mind, your "hypocracy" amazes me.

sharpie,
i would be as adamantly against mandating 9 20 year olds as i am about mandating 2 16 year olds.
the only thing i want is for the best available player of any age to be put on the ice every night.
it is not right to have a better 17 or 18 year old sitting out because you MUST play the 16 year olds. that is what i'm against.

Fair enough. It's fine to be against something in principle, as long as you would be against it both ways. I can respect that.

Doesn't mean I necessarily agree, but I respect your opinion here. The Central model, in my opinion, is about mandating that 16 year old be played in order that the best team be put on the ice, by preventing the 16 year olds that are better players from being sat solely because of their age. I've seen and known lots of 16 year olds in my 12 years in Jr. A hockey who had their development stunted because, even though they were better than some of the players on the ice, they were a healthy scratch most nights.

A lot of talk has been made about 16 year olds being children of owners who would not necessarily make the team otherwise. Fine. But what about teams over the years that have dressed an owner's son who was 18 or 19, at the expense of sitting a more talented 16 year old? Or the teams that have had the backwards thinking that a more talented rookie should sit while the eighth or ninth overager on the team took night after night off, phoning in his effort because he knew his spot was safe for no other reason than his age? THESE are the things that the Central mandate will, in my opinion, accomplish. Not, as you suggest, less talented players being mandated to play over more talented ones.

My opinion, from the POV of somebody who saw both systems in action firt hand last season. Nothing more.

"Sharpster"

Why is is everything that comes out of your slanted mouth "Gospel" and everything that Wingfan, myself and others say is "arrogance". What makes you any better than anyone else on this Forum? For a guy who has moderated 50 (ya, right) Forums, you sound like a complete "MISFIT"..

"I pity all 3 of you honestly. All 3 of you are in my prayers, that God will replace your arrogance with maturity and wisdom."

What gives you the right to make that statement about me or any of the other 3 that you refer to. As far as maturity, judging by your "ranting" I am heads and shoulders over you and as far as wisdom, it would be no contest. I am a God fearing person and take my religion seriously, so I would appreciate you refraining from the ridiculous comments that you are praying for me, you should be ashamed of bringing God into such comments, this is a hockey Forum not a religious Forum, so stop being a complete "IDIOT" and stick to the discussions that are tabled.

The more idiotic comments that come out of that mouth of yours, the more you appear to be a poor misguided soul who lacks the basic tools of good manners and confidence. Why in hell Ajax hired you to head up promotions is beyond me.

On top of everything else, you lie. You made it clear to everyone that you were going to leave the Forums, yet you were back within a week to continue your "RANTING" and "RAGGING" on anyone and everyone who does not agree with your opinions. As far as I'm concerned, credibility is not one of your virtues.

Please do us all a favour and leave again permanently and direct your pent up emotions to doing the job that you were hired to do in Ajax.

By the way, haven't seen any names of the 50 Forums that you moderated over the past 14 years, I guess that is a total lie also.

I guess this means you two are not going to have that beer.

Ajax hired him to try to hypnotize all the fans of the Attack so that when they see the goaltending this year they will think it is of Jr A calibre. Last I heard they have one goalie. I wonder why no one else wants to sign with them.

"Why is is everything that comes out of your slanted mouth "Gospel" and everything that Wingfan, myself and others say is "arrogance"."

I never claimed anything that came out of my mouth was gospel. I post opinions, and I present them as such, or I post facts and present them as such. The difference between me and you is that you present your opinions as fact, which is arrogant because it infers that you are claiming a monopoly on the truth. Wingfan earlier in this very thread, in fact right before you posted this, posted an opinion as opinion, and I was actually able to have some rational discourse and debate with him, which was enjoyable and civil. You choose not to. That's your prerogative, and why I pity you.

"I am a God fearing person"

And I'm not? Actually, check that...I'm not. I'm a God-LOVING person.

"and take my religion seriously"

And I don't? Again, to make a comment like this and make assumptions about me is arrogant. What, now you have a monopoly on religion too?

"I would appreciate you refraining from the ridiculous comments that you are praying for me"

I pray for a lot of people, and never in my life have I ever considered praying for someone to be ridiculous, nor have I ever in my life considered somebody praying for me to be ridiculous. For somebody who claims to take his religion so seriously, I would never think that somebody praying for you would be a "ridiculous" comment, in any context whatsoever.

"this is a hockey Forum not a religious Forum"

Yes, you are exactly right. However, I didn't exactly launch into a debate about whether the Jews or the Muslims or the Christians or the Buddhists are right. I simply said that I was praying for you, for a specific improvement to your character as a human being. Somebody who takes his religion as seriously as you claim to should appreciate that. I am not going to stop praying for you, just as I won't stop praying for Tony in his lifelong battle to remain sober, or for IBG to find happiness and success in her job in Winnipeg, or for the players before every game for their safety, or for myself and my own family. I pray. It is one of the "ridiculous" (to use your word) things I do not intend to stop doing.

"a poor misguided soul who lacks the basic tools of good manners and confidence"

Hello, kettle, I'm a pot. Gee, you're quite black.

"Why in hell Ajax hired you to head up promotions is beyond me."

Because I'm damn good at what I do. Major improvements to the marketing in a very short time. Check it out, there are two threads dedicated to it.

"On top of everything else, you lie. You made it clear to everyone that you were going to leave the Forums, yet you were back within a week to continue your "RANTING" and "RAGGING" on anyone and everyone who does not agree with your opinions."

No, I do not rant or rag on anybody who doesn't agree with my opinions. I get angry and frustrated with people who cannot understand the concept of rational and intelligent debate, and instead resort to personal attacks on something which should be entertaining, enlightening, and informative, such as a hockey forum. The reason I didn't stay away was because of the fourteen e-mails I got within the first day after posting that, asking me to reconsider because I was the only voice they had against the likes of you and wingfan. Also, people at the rink Sunday night, stopping me and telling me that if I didn't come back, you would run rampant. Not to mention my very own employers, people within the Attack organization wanting me to stay active on the forums. So no, it wasn't a lie. It was a miscalculation.

"By the way, haven't seen any names of the 50 Forums that you moderated"

That would be because none of them are relevant. The fact I moderated them is relevant. The actual names of the forums is not. Being a lawyer, I figure you understand the concept of relevance, right?

Sorry, I forgot one of your quotes.

"As far as I'm concerned, credibility is not one of your virtues."

And you are fully entitled to that opinion. However, it puts you in the extreme minority of people I've met in hockey. In fact, there is nobody in hockey that I have personal problems with, including you. I have no personal issues with you, it is you who keeps trying to make this a personal issue, and I do not understand that, because you've never even had the courage to confront me with whatever issues you have with me face-to-face, man-to-man. That is one thing I will never understand, how somebody can lash out with personal attacks on an internet forum on somebody that they don't even have the courage to meet face-to-face. It is one of the most cowardly aspects of our anonymous technology age.

One more quote I forgot, too...

"you should be ashamed of bringing God into such comments"

I am NEVER ashamed of bringing God into anything. I am extremely proud of my connection with God, it is the one constant that has never wavered in my life. And neither you, nor anybody else, will EVER, EVER tell me that I should be ashamed of any aspect of my spiritual connection with God. That is the most disgusting thing you have ever posted.

RANT, RANT, RANT, RANT, RANT, RANT, RANT, RANT, RANT, RANT--------------RANT
RAMBLE, RAMBLE, RAMBLE, RAMBLE, RAMBLE, RAMBLE,RAMBLE, RAMBLE ---------RAMBLE

Poor Sharpie, if you only knew how totally "RIDICULOUS" you sound.

Three replys, many parargraphs and Lord kmows how many words (too many to count) just to answer my one post, if that isn't the "RANTING" and "RAMBLING" of one childish, insecure "PUPPY", then I don't know what is.

Keep it up Sharpie, I'm starting to get a real kick out of it.

Let's see, 1 reply, 5 paragraphs and 500 words should be enough to answer this post.

Oh and by the way, I have never seen any invite from you to meet you face to face. Anytime my boy, anytime, just keep your head up, the last guy I decked was younger than you.

"Shoeless"

Drink with "Sharpie" you have to be kidding, I have never met him and have no idea who he is. From what I see from his ranting and never ending rambling, I really don't want to meet him unless it is to confront him.

Tell me, what is the white house south of Steeles called, I have lived in Thornhill since 1956 and right now can't think of where you mean.

OK guys I want to make an announcement.

As of 1.35 am I am notifying everyone that I am leaving the Forums, I can no longer take Sharpie's RANTING and RAMBLING on and on and on and on.

In parting I would like to say that I have enjoyed my time on the Forums and wish everyone "good hockey" in the upcoming 2009/10 season.

THERE IS A GOD!!!

"I have never seen any invite from you to meet you face to face. Anytime my boy, anytime, just keep your head up, the last guy I decked was younger than you."

Wow, just wow. Threatening physical confrontation and violence unprovoked. THAT'S mature.

I did not say anything about confrontation. I said that you don't have the courage to come and TALK to me about your problems with me...you know, how mature MEN handle their problems? It is cowardly to hide behind these forums rather than talk to me face-to-face about what your problems with me are, and to threaten physical violence when I've made it clear that I have no problem with you and that it is you who has a problem with me...well, perhaps you need a little more of my praying than I thought.

And to say you've never seen an invite is crap. I have OFTEN said on the forums that there is an open invite to ANYBODY from the forums to come on out to the rink and meet me face-to-face to talk hockey. MANY have taken the time to do so. I'm not a hard guy to find, because I have never ever hid behind these forums. I have always owned my comments and opinions, by being totally clear about who I am on here.

SURPRISE, SURPRISE!!!!!

AT 9.11 am, I AM BACK ON THE FORUM.

I just wanted to beat Sharpie's "turn around" time in breaking a promise.

I believe Sharpie took a little under a week to come back.

I only took some 8 and a 1/2 hours, I guess I now hold the record.

LOL everybody, it's so nice to be back, (he said with "tongue and cheek").




Oh, by the way Sharpie, I have asked a lot of people around the Junior "A" rinks about you, sorry to report that I haven't met one yet that knows who you are, one said that he thought that you were a young guy, that was it.

I guess I travel in totally different circles than you do which is no surprise, thank God.

Geez guys! Lots of cheap shots happening in this forum!

Seems like there is a pissing war going on. "God" help anyone who disagrees with you sharpie. However, most readers would probably agree you aren't the sharpest 'tool' in the drawer. I believe there is a moderator, sharpie, let him be judge and jury. If you want to be the BIG DOG in the forum, you will continue to lose credibility. How about sticking to your 'job', positively promoting your newest team. Being the great debater in here doesn't really come across very positively for the ATTACK. That team really needs a strong and confident spokesperson in here. So far your petty 'arrogance' isn't serving your employer very well. Make your point and then let others make theirs. Speak well of everyone, even your attackers. You are really just an easy 'mark' to get a rise out of.

How about back to the real topic......will dividing the league help Junior Hockey?

My comment would be that there are too many teams. Simple stuff! Contraction in Ontario is necessary.

Say it so, SMC57, I was being metaphorical about the White House, I would have suggested to invite Obama for the beer, but he has real wars to deal with.
To all, in any revolution there is always one man with a vision. Sometimes we need a little revolution to stir the pot, and shake things up. The teams that would be part of the new set up, would include the best from both leagues and maybe the GOJHL. This would be the envitable outcome. We might even see an English style set up, bottom two or more teams move down, top two or more teams move up.

Sorry guys, I just pissed my pants again laughing at all of this.

Sharpie states....."This is inaccurate. A year in midget will not hurt many 16 year olds, but 16 year olds that are ready to play Jr. A will be hurt and have their development stunted by being forced to play an extra year in midget. High level athletes need to play against superior competition in order to develop properly."

Sharpie the problem is most of the 16 year olds getting chosen for JR A are the Owners kids, friends of the owners, Fathers who are paying big bucks and kids of powerful exec's. I would say this represents 80% of all 16 year olds. These are not great athletes and based on pure hockey skill have no business being there. The team you represent now is a perfect example. Everything you stated in the quoted statement for the most part is........................meaningless.

Your opinion only, and you are welcome to it. My opinion differs from yours, but we've been down that road and it has grown tiresome. We're never going to agree, so why keep beating your dead horse?

Hey ripped, do you know who the 16 year olds are this season? I doubt it. Is the goalie 16? Nope

Wow, somebody hasn't read a word I posted.

I have repeatedly said that I do not have a problem with anybody. And for the most part, nobody in hockey has a problem with me, at least none that have ever told me so face-to-face. There is a small minority on here who seem to continually want to attack me personally, rather than talk about hockey, and all I have said is that I feel sorry for those people and am keeping them in my prayers. Not once in this thread have my comments been anything but calm and rational, and yet I'm having threats of physical violence thrown at me. Once again, in plain English so that hopefully everybody will understand...I do not have personal problems with anybody on these forums. Not SMC, not wingfan, not anybody. If they have issues with me, I do not believe these forums are the place to resolve them. A face-to-face talk is the right and proper way, but hey...nobody but me seems interested in being mature enough to act like a man and actually resolve anything.

Pretty far from what you just painted it to be, though. Spin in the wrong hands is a dangerous weapon.

As to the idea of contraction, that is not what this province needs, in my opinion. The absolute last thing we need is to be cutting down on the number of places our Jr. A quality talent can play hockey, so that they need to relocate.

The formation of the Central was the right way to solve the problems in Jr. A hockey, and when the OJAHL forced the split by refusing to cooperate with the OHA, dividing into two separate leagues was the right way to go. Both leagues will be stronger for the split, and we are going to see some amazing, competitive Jr. A hockey right across the board in both leagues.

Looking forward to the season!!!

"Facetotheglass"

Couldn't have said it better.

Sharpie is definitely a real "mark" for getting a rise out of, too bad but I think it is just his lack of maturity and experience at a managerial level in Junior "A" Hockey. If he reacts the same way with his new employers as he does on the Forums, it won't be long before he will be looking for a new job.

You would think though with his experience in moderating 50 (heh, heh) Forums, he would conduct himself in a more professional manner on our Forums. If 50 is true, it's not hard to figure out why he went through 50 Forums as moderator.

My hats off to Wexdog, whom I suddenly have a great appreciation for as a moderator. Sharpie makes the "Dog" look like Mother Teresa.

Tony Hayward, of course, has always been in my books, a great moderator.


Sharpie, Sharpie clean up your act before it is too late and as "Facetotheglass" says, stick to the job that Ajax has given you.

Sharpie, do you really believe the majority of the talent is Jr A quality? Try and imagine a league filled with only the top six (and 4) in the liuneup. So, maybe 18-20 teams.

I believe that would be a different picture. And it would help everything from bums in the seats to kids working hard to make the team.

Faceglass


"Hey ripped, do you know who the 16 year olds are this season? I doubt it. Is the goalie 16? Nope"

The owners son-the goalie- was on the team at 16. The assn't coach-whose a sponsor-son was on the team at 16. I rest my case.

Old news! How about this year?

SMC, have you ever even thought about e-mailing or phoning me, to settle your problems with me like an adult, and sparing the forums your obvious hatred of me? As I have stated, I have no problems with you, except YOUR immaturity and cowardice. I am a man, and have the courage to tell people to their face what they think. In fact, perhaps I will make a trip up to Aurora this season and we can talk out what your problems with me are like grown-ups do.

The fact is, the reason you have never tried to settle the problems you have with me is that you know that you have no reason to have a problem with me. I've never done anything to you. All I've ever done was have the nerve to have an opinion that differs from yours. That's it, nothing more, and I believe as a Canadian citizen, it is my legal right to express any opinions I have, even if they are different from yours. But to you, that makes me the enemy. I can't figure that out or wrap my head around it, nor can I understand how somebody who claims to be so mature can try to solve their problem with me anonymously on these forums rather than man-to-man, face-to-face. I am the type of person that if I had a problem with you, I would make the trip up to Aurora so that I could tell you exactly what that problem is while looking you in the eyes. Obviously, you haven't got that same sense of courage or integrity, which is why I feel sorry for you. You continue to have my pity and my prayers.

There you go again. Do you not think your team reads your crap?

I don't know how it is crap that I have no problem with anybody, and am inviting them to resolve their issues with me. How is that crap?

Forgot to add my contact info for you, SMC, in case you decide to act like a man.

derekpsharp@hotmail.com

905-259-2673

I invite you, or anybody else, to call or e-mail me, and we can talk it out and figure out exactly what your problems with me are. Like I said, I've never had a problem with anybody, and I have nothing to hide, so just call me. Maybe you're afraid you'll find out I'm not the villain or the enemy you are picturing in your mind.

Tony, lets lock this and move on. I don't want anyone to have a nervous breakdown. In a way I'm starting to like Sharpie's never say die attitude and his passion. I also like SMC and Wingfans passion as well. I think all 3 of these's guys are good guys and mean well but we all have to cut the bullcrap about hockey. There's no doubt that the JR A game is corrupted and in a big mess right now. Lets move on.

Well said, RS. I have been saying for a while that the personal stuff needs to stay off the forums so we can get back to what the forums are supposed to be about...rational and intelligent discussion and debate about Jr. A hockey, and for the betterment of Jr. A hockey, which is the reason we are all here in the first place.

"Shoeless"

Thank God for your reply, I was ready to drive south of Steeles to find the establishment that you talked of. I thought, gee is there a "Bar" that I don't know of!!

You know nobody enjoys and backs JR "A" hockey as much as I do. My involvement spans 45 years as a player, owner, sponsor, executive etc, etc, all to do with advancing hockey at all levels.

I think that the split into 2 leagues is the best thing that could have happened to the OJHL. We end up with a reduced 15 team league on one side, something that should have been done years ago. I can tell you right now that the owners in the new OJAHL 15 team league have waited for this for years and can't wait to begin the new season. Imagine the Tigers playing the OJHL Champion Vees throughout the year just to name one combination. There are many Georgetown, Oakville, Burlington, Vaughan ond so on, all top level organizations that always ice a top notch team year after year.

In my opinion the OJAHL will be the stronger league caliber wise only because they will be playing under HC rules regarding player ages allowed etc. We can beat that aspect to death and already have.

As far as 16 year olds, let's face it the talented 16 year olds are drafted to the OHL leaving the less talented ones to play at the JR "A" and Midget levels and as someone pointed out, many of the 16 year olds playing at the JR "A" level are there because of their parent's ownership not because of their talent, sad but very true.

In my opinion, the less talented ones should stay in the Midget ranks to gain more ice time and experience to further their skills before moving on to JR "A" or the OHL.

Should be a great season just around the corner, I am really looking forward to see the product that the Tigers will ice come September. The new owners and coaches have been working very hard scouting and signing new players in order to continue the tradition of winning teams in Aurora.

It should be a very very interesting season that's for sure.

Well, SMC, you have certainly presented your opinions clearly, and they were well said. Now, I can appreciate your opinions, and agree to disagree with most of them.

The one thing I do agree with is that the split that the OJAHL forced is the best thing that could have happened to Jr. A hockey in Ontario. Having two strong, competitive Jr. A leagues will only make the overall product on both sides better.

One thing I disagree with is that the OHL has any bearing on how many Jr. A caliber 16 year olds are available. The OHL only takes the 16 year olds that are already better than Jr. A caliber. There are many, many Jr. A caliber 16 year olds who do not go to the OHL, and if they are Jr. A caliber, then why send them back to midget, where they have nothing left to prove or to learn? Or, similarly, why put them on a Jr. A card to sit them in the stands and watch Jr. A hockey? If they are Jr. A caliber, then they need to PLAY Jr. A hockey, in order to develop into the best possible 18, 19, and 20 year old hockey players down the road. Putting them down for one last year at an inferior level of hockey, or sitting them in the stands, will not contribute to that in any way, in my opinion.

In the end, this split will be the best thing for Jr. A hockey. Jr. A hockey was strong back in the days of the old Metro and Provincial leagues, and now it can be strong again. One side will NOT be better than the other, both will provide high-quality Jr. A hockey.

Those were the two best posts yet, I feel sort of like Obama, we can agree to disagree. Cheers hope to see everyone at the arenas around the league, oopps leagues. And may the hockey gods make this the best season ever.

wait til next year . this is like a spat compared to next year when the junior a and developmental distinction is clear.
i for one cant wait..we will have junior a that can compete with the west and a great developmental league to groom the players.
there is going to be some serious eating of crow from some egos that created this mess when they are designated developmental and some bitterness for ones that will be junior a and sitting across from their fellow owners that they have disparaged for two years.
but it has to be done for the survival of junior a hockey in ontario.

Everyone here has admitted, even those who have a preference one way or the other, that both sides are going to be different but equal. Not one side being a feeder for the other, not one Jr. A league and one development league, just two different but equally good and equally competitive Jr. A leagues, each of which will produce a champion with an equal chance of advancing to the Dudley and then the RBC. Why is that so difficult to understand? It is easy and plain to see.

wingnut you and smc57 have been wrong about everything related to the central and its non-life/short life ending/over plans etc. why would ANYONE believe you now? thats probably your hope if you repeat your incorrect information long enough maybe just maybe some schleprock will buy it.

and you shouldn't be surprised to know just exactly who is in the cat-bird-seat now.

$$PM87$$

Two things:
At least there will be more than 4 teams in the Dudley Cup.
And two, if the Commissioner of baseball reinstates Pete Rose, maybe they should allow Shoeless Joe Jackson in, at least before the steriod boys of summer.

Shoeless, from my understanding, there will still only be 4 teams in the Dudley. The two champions of these two great leagues will meet to determine which goes to the Dudley, like the old Metro and Provincial Jr. A leagues used to do.

"Shoeless"

Please explain what you mean that there will be more than 4 teams at the Dudley.

I was under the impression that the OJAHL and the Central will playoff for the right to enter the Dudley, did I miss something?

Oops, my mistake, never mind.
Thanks Sharpie and SMC57 for the clarification.

You're very welcome.

Hey PM, I would like to know something, is the latest move by the OHA to create the two leagues the "SHOE" that was going to drop on the Ontario Division. You talked and talked about it before, so is this the dropping of the "BIG SHOE"? or was the OHA's decision a nail in the coffin of the Central as a Premier Junior "A" League?.

Again...the Central is a Premiere Jr. A League. So is the OJAHL. Both are equally good.

Not a chance. The Central is going to be an owners and rich daddy league. They will take money from the other players to give to their own. The other players should be running quickly to the Real Junior Hockey League.

Not a chance. The business ethics and standards laid out by the Central will not allow for that. Accountability is the key, whether you choose to believe it or not.

ok pm tell me where i have been wrong.
i am against MANDATING that 16 year olds must play.
i am totally in favour of 16 year olds playing if they are good enough to earn their spots on merit not rules and earn their ice as one of the top players available each night
if they arent good enough to contribute on a regular basis then they should play midget and develop and may be ap'd when necessary and to gain some junior a experience. i am against signing them and sitting them!
i have always been against paying of any player! i suggested years ago that in my opinion any player coming back from major junior must have been playing in the op as a 19 year old to be eligible to play as a 20 year old.
i have stated that limiting 20 year olds is discrimatory and if you take my statement above into consideration you can see that i think a 20 year old late bloomer that wants to go on and play cis ncaa or acha hockey should keep that opportunity available to them!
i have also been very outspoken about crappy owners that dont pay their bills and operate in any undue fashion!
My argument has always been that players will develop more when playing against the best competition on the ice. that teams that are called junior a should put the best product on the ice every night. i dont care if they are all 17 18 19 or have 2 16 or 9 20 year olds as long as the team adheres to hockey canadas guidelines. they are the governing body!
that is what i have always stated.
now that we will have the tomorrows hockey implemented next season hopefully we will have fewer and better teams, better development and well run franchises that will provide good entertainment and get back to putting our players on to the next level of hockey with better foundations of skill and maturity!

I will clarify. Shouldn't have said taking their money.
Not giving to players to keep it affordable like real junior hockey leagues do.
No sticks, no gas money, no skates.....except for guess who?
Funny thing is they want scholarships for their kids and buddies but they are making it harder to compete because the good players will want out and are already trying.

No sticks? No skates? Are you kidding me?

The Central teams have a mandatory operating budget, which includes these things. It also includes billoting of players. What it does not include is giving a player who lives close enough to walk to the rink $250 a week in "gas money" or whatever ridiculous amounts are being paid. I don't know what the amounts are, $250 a week was an example. The fact is, teams that operate without the Central's guidelines have no restrictions on the amount of "gas money" they can pay out, and often use that to "pay" the players to play for them. The fact that this doesn't happen in the Central should be considered a step in the right direction, seeing as how Jr. A is supposed to be amateur hockey.

Case in point...I knew one GM many, many years ago who I heard with my own ears after the Panthers tied the series say to his owner "Look, the guys aren't playing because we're not giving them enough gas money. They want an extra $200 to cover their gas every time they win." Because he was talking about "gas money", under the letter of the rules he wasn't breaking any. However, I'm sure if the NCAA had caught wind of the conversation...

Bottom line, the Central is providing a blueprint to clean up the business end of Jr. A Hockey.

You actually believe what you just said? Wow, you are crazier than all the other guys are saying.

You're not of the opinion that Jr. A should be amateur hockey?

It really never has been and probably never will. The Central is no longer Jr A hockey. It is a league for the owner's sons and their friends to play in when they don't belong and all the other players are being used.

Your opinion and yours alone, and you are certainly entitled to it.

You know who else is being used. Volunteers and people like you who give everything they got to an organization to try to win. Now you are working your butt off not to a help in a winning effort you are now working so kids that don't belong there can play in the hopes that daddy can tell all his buddies little joey got a scholarship to Padukah State. I feel for guys like you. The team you work for does not want to win. It is there so Joey can play too.

I'll be just fine, thanks for the concern.

Do you think the team you work for is trying to win?

Of course I do. Why would an owner have his son on his team and not want his son to win? That doesn't even begin to make sense. In my experience, parent owners tend to be even more driven to win for that very reason.

Not that it makes any difference in my job. My job is to market the team, plain and simple. I leave the hockey decisions up to the hockey people.

Must be hard to market a team that does not want to win and players don't want to come there and players there want to get out.

None of which is true, but blatantly lying seems to be okay in your world.

Which part of my statement is a lie?

1. The Attack are an easy team to market.

2. The team does want to win.

3. There are a lot of players who want to play for the Attack, as evidenced by the great turnout we had at rookie camp and the turnout we expect for the full training camp.

4. There are very few spots available, evidence of the fact that very few players want out.

There you have it, point by point truth.

sharpie...how can you say that with a straight face after the put in little johnny in net for the second round of the playoffs last season and get the sh*t kicked out of the team!
it was blatantly unfair to the other 21 players in that room, to the fans , the coaches and the integrity of the league!!!
the steps that team made last year on the road to respectability were set back years and make labelle look good.
your recruiting will consist of players that dont do their homework or no one else will take!
you have an uphill battle marketing around that mess!

I don't see what was so wrong with playing Adam in a couple of games to get him some playoff experience. I haven't talked to the owner or GM about it, but talking to some people around Durham rinks, there was some talk that Jenkins was not feeling 100% and was battling flu. On top of that, the team was likely to get swept even with a healthy Jenkins.

In my opinion, and again, without having spoken to anybody about the decision because it was none of my business and so it is strictly speculation, the only mistake that was made was putting Adam into a situation that was being so heavily magnified by the spotlight of having won the first playoff round in the history of Ajax Jr. A Hockey.

However, I do believe that Adam learned from the playoff experience, and will be a better goalie this season for having played in those playoff games. Personally, I am in the group that thinks he will surprise a lot of the naysayers this season.

This is all I will say on this subject.

i hope you're right as adam is trying his best and he is not the problem. but how do you recruit a good goalie to play there after that???

Again...you're talking to the wrong guy. The hockey end is not my department. Rob Toffoli is a quality GM with a proven track record. I'm sure he'll get the job done.

sharpie you should get off of here before you lead yourself away from what you are hired to do and again your posts have opened the discussion to the perceived negatives of your beloved ajax team. the direction is counterproductive to your job so if at all possible just stay away for a while to let this thread die. nobody wants you to get fired. not even smc or me!

Wingfan is right Sharpie, button it up and get on to something else. Each time you speak the hole gets DEEPER and DEEPER.

Give it a rest before you dig a hole so deep you won't be able to climb out of or you end up having a nervous breakdown.

LOL

smc im shocked and hurt that you didnt include my otters in your rant about good teams.

Craig Shaw
Huntsville Otters

Hey Craig.

I was just including some of the new teams in our division, believe me the Otters always ice the best each season. I'm sure this season will be no exception.

Look out for my Tigers though, we are still licking our wounds from our defeat at the hands of your Otters last season. I'm sure that both of our organizations will be there at the end once again.

You have to admit, with all the new great teams in our league, it is going to be one hell of an exciting season.

Looking forward to seeing you when the season begins.

Greggy states,

"It really never has been and probably never will. The Central is no longer Jr A hockey. It is a league for the owner's sons and their friends to play in when they don't belong and all the other players are being used."

This statement by greggy is not too far off the truth.

In the last 2 years the Ajax Attack have lost or forced out: John Winder,John Bowler,Gord Fournier,John Tugnutt(2 coaches and 1GM plus 1 Director of Hockey), their best goalie they've had in the last how many years(Jenkins)and their captain(Gour). There are so many buddy deals on this team that it would make Buddies In Bad Times look look like Buddies in Good Times.

Sharpie, listen, if we're going to talk about hockey, especially in Durham, you have to understand that a lot of us on here know the situations on the Attack in detail. For the most part, we know the history of all the principals involved in detail. To be more credible one has to take an objective view. If you are unable to take a realistic view on the cage you should stay off. The problem is that the "pumping up" of a hockey program will be shot down by everyone when people sense that someone is not being honest on here. Sharpie, I admire your tenacity, your passion, and your love of the game.But You need to be more honest on here, we all see past the plastic covering.

Ooooh, I bet that hurt eh Sharpie??

Can't comment, I know little or nothing about the Ajax organization but obviously someone here does.

wow you guys need to get a life

Huskies85
"We need to get a life"
#1 What are you doing looking, maybe you should get a life too
#2 We are trying to do what the Central Division is claiming they are trying to do. Clean up junior hockey. We have very differing opinons on what is wrong with junior hockey.
What do you say?
Or is- You guys need to get a life about the extent of your knowledge of what is wrong. We think it is very important to clean this mess up and maybe there is some middle ground. All I get from your comment is that what we are discussing isn't very important.

"#2 We are trying to do what the Central Division is claiming they are trying to do. Clean up junior hockey. We have very differing opinons on what is wrong with junior hockey.
What do you say?"

wow that made me LAUGH. the foxes cannot be responsible for the henhouse. and you cant clean with a dirty mop!


?v=0

$$PM87$$

I will like to here what people will say on here if one of the Central clubs end up in the RBC and not an Ontario Division club hummm!

NO CHANCE!!!

I will lay money on the line right now with anyone who is interested.

I will probably be a repeat of last season. Marty's Wellington Dukes will win the Central again and move on against the OJAHL winner with the same outcome as last year. Unfortunately for Marty his 20 year old ranks will be decimated and with the new Central restrictions of 5/20 yr olds and 8/19 yr olds plus NO OHL returnees, the Dukes will not be, in my opinion, anywhere near as powerful as last season, but will be good enough to win the weakened Central Division.

I know that I have always "bantered" against the Dukes, most of it with "tongue and cheek", but they are a great winning organization and in my opinion should be playing in the OJAHL. I'm surprised that they opted again for the Central. With Marty's past hockey experience as a player and coach at the highest levels of Junior hockey (OHL), plus his fierce competitive spirit, I would have thought he would have wanted to be a part of the highest level of Junior "A" hockey, the OJAHL.

Here was their pitch to a 20 year old this spring.
We don't give sticks, skates or gas money, we will try to get you a job but just come and play for us we are the Dukes. Needless to say that player is playing elsewhere and that trend will continue until one league is a feeder system to the other. I would just like to know where all the spare change is going?

Somehow I feel like S.H. gameplan from the GTHL has been adapted to a certain junior league

What a bunch of idiots.
Both sides.

Get out of the house.



SMC it is great golf weather.

To the rest of you ... learn to ride a bike or something.











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I guess it is just a coincidence that two teams would change from BLACK and orange to blue in the same season? One team owned by a self proclaimed flyer fan and the other by?
Please see any parent of the old Toronto Aeros, Penguins etc.....Its coming.
Wexdog . Sorry to piss you off but I guess I've been told. See you.

Sorry Wexdog. One last thing.
Check to see if any Central Division owner's sons ever played for one of the teams that was mentioned in the last post.
Thanks

Oh great, we have a thread with 140 responses and we have to get a whole page of nothing from Wexdog and his "look at me, look at me" sig. Good grief.

SMC,are u for real saying that a team in the Central can not go to the RBC.....Please give me the Lotto649 numbers that will take tonight,hell if i win on your numbers..... i will give you half of the 23 million no ****.

Hell giving half of that and getting rid of you i will enjoy it forever..im in for this one!

Think before you give money to an complete idiot like SMC,keep it for you and family because he the worst person in the GTA,BELIEVE ME HE IS!!!!!!!!!!!

Not saying names SMC,but if you could pay me back that would be nice!

I'll go 2-1 that the real Jr A league wins because Sharpie is sure that there will be no more funny stuff last year.

like last year.

"DoubleDues"

What in hell are you talking about?
Your comment makes no sense at all.

"Tigerden101"

What in hell are you talking about??
Last time I looked, I didn't owe anyone any money.
Give me a name, if I owe you I will pay you.

Worst person in the GTA, what is that??

If you are going to do something might as well be the best...... or the worst.
Worse than Arland Bruce III? Worse than Larry Tannenbaum? Worse than J.P...... can't spell Ricciardi? Worse than M.T?

"greggy"

This one really floors me, I have no idea what these two people are talking about, I think they have confused me with someone else.

Judging from their writing style, they have to be young kids who have a "hard on" for the Aurora Tigers for some reason, maybe former players that figure they weren't treated properly by the Tigers. Maybe they think that I am part of the Tiger organization at the owner or managerial level which everyone knows or should know, that I am not.

If they have the "balls" to answer my querie, believe me I will deal with it in more ways than one.

I wouldn't worry much your respect on here says it all. Look forward to that sip from the cup on the way back from Dauphin. We will email pics to whats his name and the other guy.

ok...newbie here...but I have been reading most of the threads and get the fact that the 32ish teams have seperated and there are now two leagues being formed. One league is adopting last years model of the 8 teams that were a pilot. It is called the Ontario? division/league and focus is younger development with all of this new governace. The other teams are the Central? and they basicaly are the old guard...do I have this right?

So my question (since my son is a 16 year old and probably going to play Midget). My understanding before all of this is that each team can only take on 2 16 year olds. The concept of the Ontario division is they might take more than the 2 quota....has there been an update to that.

Second question, since we live in Durham....and I know the management of these teams change quite frequently, which is the most stable and professional group out here. We have had dealings with 3 and only reasonably impressed with one of them.

One thing is that you got the names of the two leagues flipped. It's not a big deal, but the Ontario is the old guard and the Central the new model.

As for the Durham teams, I have intimate familiarity with three, Pickering, Ajax, and Whitby, and can say with 100% certainty that you son would be treated extremely well by any of the three. From everything I have heard about Bowmanville, they are a first-rate, classy organization as well.

There are others who will dispute my assessment of Pickering, Ajax, and Whitby, but I am speaking from the perspective of having frequent contact with people at the higher levels of all three organizations, and knowing first-hand how players are treated by the staffs of those teams.

By the way, if you have any further questions about my experience with these teams, please feel free to e-mail me at derekpsharp@hotmail.com

Thanks for the info....I know each org. is challenged with putting the best talent out there and deal with some unique player/parental situations in addition to financing issues in this market. So it is tough....So far (and the process is early) through asking questions, sons internet connections and general communications...we have found Bowmanville to be the most professional.

The biggest difference in my mind is communication skills. Even the rookie letters from all over ranged from very poor (Pickering) to extremely professional (Markham). Any type of feedback has been minimal unless you are identified early as a candidate. If you are not in the mix, the $ you paid provided you little in terms of professional thank you for coming out. I see a lot of opportunity for someone who can "do the more" to become great.

I noticed there has been no reply regarding the 16 year old situation....there had been talk of increasing the team quota. From what I have see, increasing it would hurt Midget programs for having decent skill talent. But there really has not been much talk in this regard. Is it because the new leagues are still meeting to deal with this issue?

The teams in the Central (including the four Durham teams) may now hold up to 4 16 year old cards and are required to dress and play two per game. From what I saw of the Central last season (working for Markham), that ice time ranged from three or four minutes a game to upwards of 15 minutes a game...depending on the team, whether the player was forward or defenseman, etc., but that is just estimates from my observation of the game. I didn't have a stopwatch running or anything like that.

tanks for that input!!!
3 or 4 minutes per game will really develop the 16 year olds better than seeing 20 minutes per game and pp and pk time!the odd one that gets the 15 min is the one that deserve to be there. confirming my point about this since day 1. if a 16 year old is truly good enough they will play on merit if they're not then they should develop in midget and not be mandated to play each night let them be ap'd to the junior team and they will develop better in the long run!!!!!

Yeah...because there is so much to learn from playing against a lower level of competition. When I was wrestling in high school, it would have been like me in grade twelve wrestling in matches against guys in grade nine or ten, and two weight classes lower. I could learn and improve more getting pinned by a guy in my own weight class and age group than winning twenty matches against the lesser competition. And that is true of all sports, hockey is no exception. And there is no exception to the rule...EVERY player has more to learn from playing against better competition (i.e. Jr. A) than he does from lesser competition (i.e. midget). The ones that are good enough to get that opportunity are now being afforded the chance, that is the only difference.

thanks again!!!
by limiting 20 year olds and mandating 16 year olds you are doing exactly that! lowering competition! as i've always said , and obviously you agree...better competition develops better players..

Not at all. In fact, lowering the number of 20 year olds is improving the competition, by replacing the 20 year olds who return for one last season and just "go through the motions" with younger, more energetic, and more deserving HUNGRY young players who know they have to fight for their ice time. Keeping five 20 year olds is approximately how many out of nine actually play hard game in, game out anyways. So we're keeping the best of the 20's and letting in the best of the 16's...thereby increasing competition.

lowering the competition???
by putting the best available players on the ice each night and on the team in general , regardless of their age ,within hockey canadas rules, you will have the BEST competition. you can spin your b.s. all over the map but the above is reality.
only four or five 20 year olds work hard every night?? same goes for any age 16 17 18 19 or 20. a good coach will read that and limit ice time.
by the nature of the central rules you cannot maximize the product on the ice..case closed!!!
now you said you will have 4 16 year old cars but only two can play. by your own words , you said they need to play to improve, now you will have to sit two EVERY NIGHT!!
these rules are proving to be absolutly nonsense.
eight competitive teams to 21 that will have the usual bottom feeders.
strict ownership and now you have some of the worst run teams in hockey!

Sharpie, don't count on the four 16 olds materializing. Hockey Canada was not too happy about the central ontario league playing with that loophole.  I expect them to close up that whole soon.

 

so those 3 or 4 minutes of ice time for a 16 year old is really making them better? if they want to help the 16 year olds out have minor midget kids afilliate and come to practice. that will do more for them then sitting on the bench getting pissed they get no ice time

Craig Shaw
Huntsville Otters

For the past 10 yrs I have provided AP's for Junior A (Wexford then Markham)from the Juvenile Hockey side of life. Although many don't consider Juvenile real hockey, I will not get into that today, we have provided good call ups. Our up hill battle over that time has been to improve the division product while developing affiliations. Only a few have succeeded.

That being said, these 16 yr olds are not going to develop properly unless they are played regularly....taught the new standards of the higher level...supported by the veteran players and allowed to make mistakes. They must have better "1 on 1" coaching and not the brimstone methods most teams adhere to these days. PATIENCE has no place in todays game. In todays game, the kid HAS to "put in his time" and you hope he is a quick learner or eventually catches on.

I have had 16 yr olds on my teams for the last 8 yrs. Most play just 1 yr and then go to Jr Hockey. Some just simply stay with the team. We play 75-80 gms and give every player the opportunity to develop ut not every player wants to go Junior....some just want to go to school and play hockey. Imagine that.

You need to stress the role of those few veterans in a younger players development. Thats where the team needs to take the necessary steps in selecting the right players as leaders. Just this year the GTHL approved the increase of 6 overager players from the old standard of 5. It was a necessary step due to the increase of players wanting to stay on. Teams were seeing cycles of graduating midgets(8-10) wanting to stay on in the 3rd yr.

Our Division has got younger due to more players skipping Midget and playing up with the 19/20 yr olds. It works in our division. In part that the veterans work with the young players and most coaches are developing with that approach. The coaches sell that philosophy and it is working. Can Junior Hockey make it work....who knows.

First of all, this has all been pretty amusing! The infighting, the backstabbing, the posturing, etc. It's even more fun now watching many of you go at it as to which league will be better, who is better serving the hockey world in terms of both development and quality.... Interesting to watch.

Say what you will, fact is you might as well call the Central Division the SGMHL - Sanctioned GMHL. That's basically what it is! None of us need a redundant diatribe to go over the rules that have been ripped right out of our rulebook, constitution and philosophy, from limits on age groups and mandatory play to the focus on education, 'league first' philosophy, not to mention limiting transaction amounts and 'zero tolerance' for breach of rules regarding payment of players. Hey whaddaya know - jr teams are even charging registration fees now!

Like it or not, you have one league that remains 'win at all cost', and will overplay their older players, leaving the younger ones on the bench, and the other league that will try to develop players for college with a much larger commitment to training and ice time, and dare I say it - integrity! Only time will tell who will come out on top, because those of you looking down on the 'GMHL' style Central might be in for a shock. Give more young guns the ice time and experience, the old boys might just be in for a rude awakening with the confidence that comes from that experience for even one season. The playoffs should be interesting.

Frankly, we all know it's about time the whole thing got blown up and reworked. It's long overdue! And it's not like I didn't predict it!!! I said from the very beginning - despite the commitment to the CDM a mere 4 years ago - the whole model will change now that we showed up. You don't really think the OHA were going to venture from the status quo except by necessity! The old boys club had things all their own way for a long, long time!

It was interesting to watch last year, and this year will be even more entertaining as separate leagues. Best of luck to everybody - hope you all get what you wished for.

Oh, and one thing that I've always failed to understand in recent years, for those proponents of the 'quality' league, the only professional junior hockey league is the CHL! They're the ones that play to rules where all bets are off as far as winning is concerned - that's what it's all about! Provincial Jr. A hockey was ALWAYS supposed to be about development brand hockey that prepared kids for college! It was never intended to be 'let's buy the OHL overager for $20,000. to put us over the top and win an RBC!

PS By the way, the GTHL would not expand its Midget program because of demand!!! If you believe that, there's some Florida property I have for sale! It's just another way to avoid losing kids to other programs - namely us!

Have a great hockey day!