This is a post from Sharpie on the other OJHL Forum - he states that he, as a game official in Whitby, ran the clock on purpose. This simply cannot happen under any circumstance and places a tremendous credibility issue with the league.

Re: Thumbs up to Wellington........thumbs down to Whitby January 17 2012, 11:38 PM


"I cannot completely disagree with you, Wayne.

In the first period, after the fourth goal, the music director for the Fury stopped playing the goal horn after goals. Throughout the game, our announcer, Jordan Mercier, toned down his goal announcements. We tried to have as much respect for the opponents as possible.

I, for one, was running the clock an extra four or five seconds on some whistles, and I'm not ashamed to admit that in a game such as this one. It was obviously not to cheat, but more out of respect for not wanting to subject the Panthers to any more embarassment than necessary.

And when Whitby scored with eight seconds left in the game, I said to our announcer, "Really? They HAD to score with 8 seconds left in a 10-1 game?", and he replied, "Yeah, I would have rather seen him dump it into the corner myself."

So yeah, I did think it was overkill, but in fairness to the Fury, there are a few key points to consider...

1) This is a team that has not had many chances to "pour it on" an opponent...having played 24 one-goal games this season.

2) There are still those on the Fury who remember the last game last season, when the Panthers played spoiler and ended the Fury's playoff hopes.

So while it does not necessarily look good on paper, there may have been reasons for the Fury to be playing the way they did. Not going to try to excuse it, because as I said...I didn't completely agree with it either, but I'm just putting it out there.

Interesting discussion on credibility from a guy living anonymously behind a pen name on a computer. I disagree - I think it is YOUR credibility on the line with this one. This vendetta that the "dukester cousins" have with Sharpie is approaching an obsession (cue "Dueling Banjo" soundtrack). Eleven-one, Fury runs it up and a few seconds tick by - do you think Whitby or Pickering complained? GET A LIFE OF YOUR OWN rather than living vicariously through Sharpie!

From SMC57

"Sharpie, I have to agree with Dukester on this. Frankly, I am a bit "shocked" that you would purposely run the clock under any circumstance.

Do you think the league would approve of your actions? Where were the refs on this? did they realize what you were doing?

I have agreed with you on most things, but not on this."

From 1 Dukester

"An admission of purposely running the game clock longer than justified is a serious admission. I would expect some sanctions from the league. While I may somewhat understand the motive it does not make it right. Perhaps when you are protecting a one goal lead the temptation might stike again or at least be suspect."

Running the clock a few seconds after a whistle does not should like a big deal in the circumstances but let's face it it is the responsibility of the club to ice a team of enough players. We always say the refs should referee the game not the score and I think this might set a bit of a precedent for timekeepers..at this level you should not really have to feel sorry for a team and take actions to justify that.

Take a look at some of the scores during the season in some of the other divisional games. I am sure there have been a few blow outs! I don't recall much conversation about some other blow out games during the season. I wasn't at the game but heard that Pickering only had 11 skaters and 2 gaolies. Shame on Pickering for putting the team in that position.

Wayne / Dukster, this isn't minor hockey this is Junior "A", go watch a ballet if you don't like it.

What a stupid topic to even start up! Did you get what you wanted out of this Wayne!!!

Sorry Dukster I meant to refer to Duke2160

Unfortunately it shows the collective IQ of the people that frequent this forum that they cannot see how egregious this event is - it is not up to individual game officials to decide how much of a game to play regardless of circumstances. If Pickering cannot ice a competitive team it is their problem, not Whitby's and not the timekeepers ! How about having the referees let Pickering hit from behind and not call it because they are getting hammered ? Silly ? then where is the line ? Is it up to every official in the rink to draw their own line ?

Re: "Unfortunately it shows the collective IQ of the people that frequent this forum" ... Wow! And to think that you are one of us "duke2160" ... ya retard!

Solid response from an articulate member of the forum community, now, do you (can you) have anything intelligent to add to this string ?

For those sloughing this off as nothing I don't really know what to say other than you have the wrong attitude for Junior hockey and it's attitudes like these that keep this league down.
This is a developmental league that hopes to propel players on to the NCAA, the CIS, the OHL and maybe, one day, the NHL. To allow this type of thing to happen says to those leagues "Hey, were not that official here, we don't really care about the integrity of the rules of the game....go look elsewhere."
Really, really sad.
I can't believe people are attacking those looking to call out this egregious miscalculation of duty by a team official. This is not house league soccer where we stop keeping score after a team gets up by five goals...

I beg to differ Gazette...what makes you think this is a developmental league?

The teams are privately owned, there is no system or structure for coaching/teaching/instruction, players can be traded, there is no territorial protection of local players, there is no NCAA/OHL affiliation, there is no development funding from parent clubs...the OHA...OHF...hockey Canada or any other group or body, or anything at all to suggest development is a priority other than people saying it is.

development?

- protect local talent with a system that brings the through minor to junior
- dramatically reduce or stop trades eg he german league uses a trade window , this would stop every daddy demanding his 17 yr old be moved because he want top PP time
- set strict equipment and incentive payments OR better ban them...if players want in league to be developed the best clubs should get players, not the best paying clubs
- have an official affiliation ageement with NCAA/ OHL
- have an internal scouting and recruitment program
- have player promotion package for schools and higher levels play
- withdraw from RBC, have provincial playoff to stop teams from focusing o. Winning over development
-petition hockey Canada for development funding to assist paying coaching staffs that are capable
- provide a stable financial environment for ownership that would bring decent people in without conflicts of interest
- etc etc etc

But none of these will ever happen because this league is exactly the opposite of q development league...it's purely about either winning or getting your kid playing...there can be no argument on this

Re: Solid response from an articulate member of the forum community, now, do you (can you) have anything intelligent to add to this string ? ... Yep, and you are one of us! lol




























Ya retard!

Een though the circumstances were not in favor of Pickering; Sharpie was wrong in letting time run off the clock on purpose. You may have thought it was fair to the players on the Pickering team, however, there were some busting their nuts off; evening scoring a goal! Kudos to them for sticking with it.

You also have to look at the stats in game. Whitby's goaltender allowed 1 goal; but didn't really have to play a full 60 minutes. At the end of the year; if he and another goalie have nearly identical stats other than a tiny difference in GAA I'd wanna know I earned it for every second I played, not for the seconds that ran off the clock.

Sharpie is not a hockey god, he doesn't chose what happens in a game and shouldn't not have ran the clock regardless of score. I respect the work that Sharpie does for the teams he works with and I know first hand just how much work goes into every game from doing it myself. He made a mistake on this one, and that's all there is to it. Not much of a big deal but you can't have any biases as a game day official.

DUKES_FAN

And in all of this gabble about a team official letting the clock run off a few extra seconds, you all miss the point.

I once criticized Evan Robinson of the Vees for running the score up against a lesser opponent. He told me he had no choice as a coach, since many of his guys were vying for NCAA scholarships and the number of scoring points they put up were a big part of their recruitabilty.

Needless to say, I didn't agree with his reasoning on that occasion.

The whole point is you don't have to run up scores like these. A coach can do a lot to discourage this.

Things like playing 3rd and 4th lines and giving a lot of those on your team who don't log a lot of ice time normally a chance at some serious ice time and the crucial lessons that this situation can provide. You can instruct those players to ensure they keep it moving (the clock) and run it down without having to embarrass your opponent by scoring some more goals.

Sharpie did little wrong. Other than his conscience dictating priority over strict adherence to rules. Nor did the Pickering team do anything wrong for icing an undermanned team. The real cuprit here was the Whitby team not using better judgement. Some of that must surely have been on its' coaching staff. Talk about undermining the credibility of the league.

At the other end end of the spectrum this night, Wellington in Peterborough could have done the same thing, IMHO. They chose not to and for that their coaching staff and players should be commended.

I know a lot of you may not agree with me and that's ok.



Wayjoy

Wayne, I think the difference there is that the Stars iced a full squad whereas the Panthers seem to have quit already and had barely enough to get by..shows how two teams act differently to adverse situations.

Sharpie i would think better of you than this
hope the league is ok with you making this call on behalf of all concernd

to Wayne
you were not at the game and to think darcy murhy was going to lie down and take a break ,guess what he is in a race of his own

let the kids play and stop speculating what welly may or may not have done


tic toc tic toc

the scorekeepers job is to run the clock. he is not supposed to be making personal judgements on how he feels the game should be run. sharpie, did you have the backing of the whitby fury in running the clock after the whistle? what happens now when you accidently forget to start or stop the clock ? sharpie your credability as an impartial timekeeper is lost. i seriously think whitby (and markham) should consider replacing you as timekeeper.

Wayne's original post centres around an age-old discussion in all sports about what the sportsmanlike thing to do is when one team is considerably stronger than the other, and really there's no easy answer and no one ever agrees. I have a hard time seeing how one can make judgments on this not being at a game however unless five guys have all the points on the game sheet.

I know in our Junior C loop, we had a team in Frontenac that was just dreadful some years. People accused teams of running up the score, yet I know some of those teams rolled four lines, made three or four passes before each goal, and still buried them. Other teams did take advantage. I was always of the mindset that you play all your lines, but you play hard. I've been on the losing end once or twice, and I know it makes me feel a lot worse if you just toy with me and pass the thing around. I showed up to play hard and I expected my rival to do likewise. I also know that when players start deviating from their regular custom, the chance of a fluke injury increases.

Injuries happen - I know the team I'm managing right now has lost a ton of man games this year - and sometimes that decimates teams to the point where you can't fault them, but generally speaking, there does have to be some onus on the struggling team to fix its problems itself.

As for what Sharpie was doing, I've heard officials talk about "shaving" time before, so it isn't a new concept, but I have to say I'm not in favour of it. I understand Sharpie had the best of intentions, but the knowledge of that slipping out there creates doubt and that creates suspicion. People may wonder if someone would do it again, when they would do it, have they done it, whatever. Maybe there's a legitimate mistake where a few seconds slip off the clock and there's more scrutiny. I don't know. I just don't see the point of going there.

"...The real cuprit here was the Whitby team not using better judgement. Some of that must surely have been on its' coaching staff."

Wayne, with all due respect, I have known Curtis for nearly 15 years. I was involved with the Eagles from the time he played Jr C and went on to coaching. He is one of the most respectable people I know or have ever known. I can assure you.........he would NOT be happy with that score and in no way would he encourage the players to 'run up the score.' I would pretty much bet the farm that he played his 3rd and 4th line more than usual.

As far as the players.........tell a Junior hockey player to try NOT to score a goal. Good luck with that!! They all want to boost their stats. That is just human nature. They are there to play and win and that is what they did.

If you are going to blame anyone, blame Pickering for putting their players in that situation.

"I showed up to play hard and I expected my rival to do likewise."

Beaversports....that says it all.

Sharpie my friend, you were wrong to take it upon yourself to make to make such a decision, I'm sure if you checked it out with the refs, they would not have agreed with you.

Consider this, what if one of the Pickering players was well up in the scoring race, would you have done the same thing, cutting back his time to add pts to his total?? I think not. This would also apply to a player on the winning team who may be challenging for the scoring title.

In all my years in hockey, this is the 1st time that I have ever heard of a timer adding time to the clock in a one sided game.

My argument isn't with the fact that seconds were ticked off or by the decision to do it. That is for the moralists to discuss.

My "axe to grind" is with the statement "Leagues credibility is ON THE LINE". With all of the credibility issues in this league, from Daddys to $$$, to false opportunity, to phantom points to bogus allstar selections, this is probably the LAST thing that would calls this league's credibiity into question. However, thos lurking in wait for Sharpie take his admission as a cue to skewer him.

I think most hockey people on here would agree, that Sharpie`s mistake wasn`t running the clock....it was running his mouth.

Shamrook nailed it.

Wayjoy

What is unfortunate about this is that Sharpie has tarnished his reputation as a good minor official.

As someone who is involved with the OHA, as the season draws to a close and we enter playoffs - every time I am in Whitby, I will be watching the clock like a hawk.

That is something that I have never had to do in Whitby. Sure there are situations for example, the last couple of min in a 1 goal game where you keep tabs on the clock - and occasionally a timekeeper ACCIDENTALLY lets a second or two run. Not a big deal - the officials usually catch it and add it on

Yet, now it is known that Sharpie INTENTIONALLY messed with the time on the clock . . . . that means every team that comes into whitby is going to assume Whitby is going to cheat.


Sharpie usually defends his position to the death . . . . . his absence on this thread speaks volumes.

I would bet his post has been sent into the league office.

I've sent an e-mail outlining my position to the league. Nothing more needs to be said by me about the matter than that.

I beg to differ Gazette...what makes you think this is a developmental league?

The teams are privately owned, there is no system or structure for coaching/teaching/instruction, players can be traded, there is no territorial protection of local players, there is no NCAA/OHL affiliation, there is no development funding from parent clubs...the OHA...OHF...hockey Canada or any other group or body, or anything at all to suggest development is a priority other than people saying it is.

development?

- protect local talent with a system that brings the through minor to junior
- dramatically reduce or stop trades eg he german league uses a trade window , this would stop every daddy demanding his 17 yr old be moved because he want top PP time
- set strict equipment and incentive payments OR better ban them...if players want in league to be developed the best clubs should get players, not the best paying clubs
- have an official affiliation ageement with NCAA/ OHL
- have an internal scouting and recruitment program
- have player promotion package for schools and higher levels play
- withdraw from RBC, have provincial playoff to stop teams from focusing o. Winning over development
-petition hockey Canada for development funding to assist paying coaching staffs that are capable
- provide a stable financial environment for ownership that would bring decent people in without conflicts of interest
- etc etc etc

But none of these will ever happen because this league is exactly the opposite of q development league...it's purely about either winning or getting your kid playing...there can be no argument on this
 

Here is one for;

- the Whitby Fury coaching staff/players
- Sharpie

Do what you feel in your heart to be right - for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
Eleanor Roosevelt (1884 - 1962)

And one for the rest of us;

I think we ought always to entertain our opinions with some measure of doubt. I shouldn't wish people dogmatically to believe any philosophy, not even mine.
Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)




Wayjoy

Wayne, Whitby game wasn't the only blow-out game in this league but I don't recall you ever commenting on any of these below. Your post and comments on the other site are absolutely BS and exactly what this league doesn't need. If you like I can pull up blow-out scores in other leagues?? And by the way all these other blow-out games happened during the season when teams had full rosters.

The only thing that your lucky about is Sharpie sticking his foot in his mouth as all the attention has turned to him. As I said before this isn't minor hockey it's Junior A. There are leagues out there that coaches shouldn't run up the scores and they are called HOUSE league.

Pickering 2 St. Michaels 8 Sun, Sep 11
Trenton 8 Peterborough 2 Tue, Sep 13
Trenton 8 Kingston 2 Thu, Sep 15
Hamilton 8 Brampton 3 Thu, Sep 15
Trenton 9 Pickering 2 Fri, Sep 16
Toronto 2 Toronto Lakeshore 9 Fri, Sep 16
Milton 0 Aurora 8 Sat, Sep 17
Cobourg 9 Mississauga 2 Sat, Sep 17
Burlington 3 Georgetown 9 Wed, Sep 21
Pickering 5 Toronto Lakeshore 11 Sat, Sep 24
Pickering 1 Trenton 8 Sun, Sep 25
Milton 1 Oakville 10 Fri, Sep 30
Brampton 0 Buffalo 10 Sat, Oct 08
Pickering 6 Kingston 10 Sun, Oct 09
Hamilton 0 Newmarket 8 Thu, Oct 13
Oakville 9 Milton 1 Fri, Oct 14
St. Michaels 9 Pickering 3 Fri, Oct 14
Default (Cobourg-Showcase) 11 Milton 2 Sat, Oct 15
Hamilton 1 Markham 9 Fri, Oct 28
Vaughan 8 Pickering 2 Fri, Oct 28
Mississauga 1 Toronto 8 Sun, Nov 06
Lindsay 3 North York 9 Sun, Nov 13
Brampton 3 Hamilton 9 Mon, Nov 14
Mississauga 1 Trenton 8 Sun, Nov 20
Hamilton 1 Oakville 11 Fri, Nov 25
North York 1 Kingston 9 Thu, Dec 01
Markham 8 Orangeville 1 Sat, Dec 03
Huntsville 2 Aurora 8 Sat, Dec 03
Pickering 2 Vaughan 12 Mon, Dec 05
Orangeville 10 Brampton 3 Thu, Dec 08
Newmarket 8 Aurora 2 Fri, Dec 09
Wellington 8 Trenton 2 Fri, Dec 16
Burlington 2 Stouffville 8 Sun, Dec 18
Brampton 2 Buffalo 8 Mon, Dec 19
Peterborough 1 Lindsay 8 Fri, Jan 13

Sorry Highfader, I guess the team I cover (the Wellington Dukes) has most of these things in place whereas other teams do not....

But I think you are wrong on some of your points...


"there is no NCAA/OHL affiliation"
There is if your club is solid in terms of coaching, management, training staff etc. and you can get an OHL club to work with you. It's worked in Wellington with the Belleville Bulls for the past three seasons...
In terms of NCAA affilation, it's about developing partnerships and networks. It's simple leg work and it goes back to coaching and management. Develop hockey players with decent academic standing and market them...the scouts will come.


"there is no development funding from parent clubs...the OHA...OHF...hockey Canada or any other group or body, or anything at all to suggest development is a priority other than people saying it is. "

There's a policy in place where OHL teams pay $1,500 per player to OHA jr clubs. It's called a development fee. you can argue the amount, but the mechanism is in place.


"- protect local talent with a system that brings the through minor to junior
- dramatically reduce or stop trades eg he german league uses a trade window , this would stop every daddy demanding his 17 yr old be moved because he want top PP time
- set strict equipment and incentive payments OR better ban them...if players want in league to be developed the best clubs should get players, not the best paying clubs "

I agree with these points as measures to improve the OJHL.... in terms of trades and movement, the OHA was talking last season about having a 23 man roster and doing away with the card system. Esentially, teams could sign up to 23 players, but the 24th would require them to drop one of the 23...this would eliminate the selling of B,C and D cards and would keep teams from signing 30 players in September and screwing over kids until the Dec. 1 cutdown date. It was opposed by members, but it might come back for consideration.

- have an official affiliation ageement with NCAA/ OHL
- have an internal scouting and recruitment program
- have player promotion package for schools and higher levels play
Again, good points...some teams are already doing this while I agree the majority are not.


- withdraw from RBC, have provincial playoff to stop teams from focusing o. Winning over development
I really don't think that's fair to the kids...teams deserve to take part in the RBC and play for a national championship. I think you would force some of the best kids going on to play NCAA out of the province

-petition hockey Canada for development funding to assist paying coaching staffs that are capable
- provide a stable financial environment for ownership that would bring decent people in without conflicts of interest"

It's a good point, but then we get back to your point about being able to protect players.
For example, say a player lives in city A and there was a team with his exclusive rights, however, this team was run by a bunch of bozos...should he be punished and have his NCAA posibilities ruined because the team in his town can't get their act together? That's pretty harsh...I think that why Jr A will enver have the import rule because the OHA realizes some of their membership can't get their act together.
The best scenario in your point is that if a team can't pay for a capable staff and can't not have people in place with conflicts of interest, they shouldn't exist.

Overall, Good points here but there are some teams taking some of these intiatives...I do agree that there are far too many teams that are not and that's part of the problem with this level of hockey...

Sharpie has made his swan song (to embark on a gymnasium wrestling career) as an impartial official a disaster. Earlier in the season he criticized Brian Park as an official. A steward of the game criticizing a referee? It's a disgrace. Brian Park, a great official, doesn't deserve that from a fellow official. Even Terrell Owens said, "he's my quarterback." Terrell Owens is a dick. This time Sharpie decides to alter the outcome of a game. You are an unbiased adjudicator, not J-Lo giving an opinion on American Idol. Sharpie, stop posting, be an official for the remainder of the season (unless you are suspended)....your wrestling career is calling...you have destroyed any credibility you have as an off ice official. Something tells me Brian Park is laughing somewhere as he referees a game with unbiased professionalism.

The bottom line is that everything you do affects your credibility as an organization. I think Shamrook is correct that reputation has been greatly tarnished over the years, and that's why we have half the discussions we have here about contraction, about competition with other junior leagues, and such.

Unfortunately there is a Catch-22 with regards to highfader's criticisms as I'm one who thinks winning and development can go hand-in-hand. Money buys the best coaching on and off the ice and it forces the quality of play up in most cases. If a younger player can't play with an older, stronger one, maybe he should be back in midget or Jr. C. There needs to be minimum standards for teams to reach and they have to have adequate resources to meet them. Since there aren't public funds available - especially since local hockey seems to be more of a lost cause - daddy owners fill a void to pay for these things. It probably has to be regulated somehow, but at the end of the day, it's hard to turn down some of the only money left to sustain this level of hockey - if it's worth sustaining.

People may say, well, what's one more indiscretion with a broken system, but each knock does affect the overall reputation and it may influence even one person that might have been able to make the league better in a positive way. We can say the system is what it is, it's beyond hope, and laugh off every thing we don't agree with, or we can acknowledge there are still people in this game and in that league working to make it better... and we can step up and support those efforts.

I think one of the points I will make to better the league is to eliminate over aged players that come back from the OHL or any other league, to play there last year in the OJHL.

The reality is the over aged player gets played more, than the younger player. The younger players develop at a slower rate because of ice time and situation.

Teams in this league should not have more than 5 over aged players per team. This would change the face of the league, it will no longer be called "an old man's league" , promote player development, cut out winning at all cost, coaching and scouting now becomes an important factor, it would bring back the scouts which should help increase scholarships, it would eliminate teams stacking up for the playoffs and in the long run it would ultimately cut down the number teams in the league which should help even the field for everyone.

Few rebutal points

-some TEAMS do well developing etc but the issue was a development LEAGUE....the AHL for example has a clear affiliation agreement and purpose statement to develop players for their NHL affiliate and they get funding to do so...they don't buy themselves 5 or 6 overagers at the trade deadline to win a championship ....I agree with developing partnerships and it should be the LEAGUE nonindividual teams doing it...once again to be a development league

- a $1500 fee from the O is a deterrent to developing a player not an incentive...a decent player goes for 5k min in the league and much much more...10-15k for a top one is not unheard of....offer a team 10k to get a kid to the O and thats a start to providing resources to get the job done properly ...a development fee is qn incentive and reward not a token handout to the poor

- I don't mind the 23 man roster or even a trade window at Christmas ...but make players and teams accountable to each other...take the idea that you can just run away if you don't like the way things are run or if the player isn't "performing" and you"ll force everyone to work with each other rather than constantly lookin for easy way out....developmen takes time and commitment and can't happen when players and teams can just throw in the towel on each other so easily and quickly

- is it fair that kid go to RBC ? Ask the 4 or 5 kids that bust *** all year and do everything asked only to get sat or released for 20 yr olds at trade deadline....once again you don't see this kind of movement in the ECHL or AHL fOr the purpose of winning a championship and as for kids leaving Ontario if the OJHL had an NCAA /OHL partnership that properly and aggresivly promoted players and Ontario being the largest hockey market in Canada there is no way a kid would choose to leave just for an RBC run....an Ontario championship combined with an unparalleled player development and exposure program would be the jewel program for any NCAA or OHL program tO look at

- while i somewhat agree on territorial protection, the benefit far outweighs downside ... One mans bozos are another's saviors...who's really the bozo the team that has great coaching but doesn't buy sticks? How about the team that won't put Johnny on the power play? If the league set standards of operations that were reasonable and development criteria that was attainable any suggestion of bozo would be mostly subjective ...and is probably now anyways...right now the biggest "bozos" are simply the ones not spending and losing hundreds of thousands or are playing their kids 1 st line every night.....there's ways to modify a territory protection so everyone's happy but again if it's about development

Back in the day


Adam(Pepsihead) Alford. See, back in our Wexford days we should have admitted that we did it on purpose and we would have been praised for effort.


Joking aside, what Wayne, Tyler and Sharps fail to understand, it would seem, is what Dukester's message is saying. Sharpie openly admits he ran the clock and is almost proud of himself. He has put himself above the law of the league, the on ice officials, the person/people that entrust him to do the job he is being PAID to do. It is not so much that he ran the clock, but that he thinks he did the right thing without thought of the integrity of the game.
Dukester is correct, it casts doubt on future games in which Sharpie is timing when the time expires just as the visiting teams scores to tie one second too late.

I am in agreement with Dukester and SMC on this one.












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I have always enjoyed reading Sharpie's insightful posts on their Forum and although we have communicated by e-mail a couple of times we have never met so I have no friendly bias here. His knowledge and ability as a minor official gleaned from some of his postings herein seem to very valuable commodities for a team to have available to them. In other words he is good at what he does.

Having said that I'm sure he now regrets what he said on this Forum regarding the 'speeding up' of this particular game. Long time fans have been through games like this one many times, sometimes from the good and bad side and you have to feel for the Panthers to a certain extent in this one but the fact is that a minor official cannot be 'judge and jury', the game has to be without reproach.

Perhaps he was misguided to say anything on this Forum about what he did that night. I have caught myself several times after 'reviewing' a piece..it's easy to do in the 'heat of the moment'.

He is man enough to report this to the OJHL and this will mean perhaps the end of his work for his two teams. I hope that he is censured and that he will be given the chance to return if he so chooses. Anyone can make an error of judgement. It's a tough one..

..anyway good luck in your future endeavours Sharpie..and don't be a stranger.

Few rebutal points

-some TEAMS do well developing etc but the issue was a development LEAGUE....the AHL for example has a clear affiliation agreement and purpose statement to develop players for their NHL affiliate and they get funding to do so...they don't buy themselves 5 or 6 overagers at the trade deadline to win a championship ....I agree with developing partnerships and it should be the LEAGUE nonindividual teams doing it...once again to be a development league

- a $1500 fee from the O is a deterrent to developing a player not an incentive...a decent player goes for 5k min in the league and much much more...10-15k for a top one is not unheard of....offer a team 10k to get a kid to the O and thats a start to providing resources to get the job done properly ...a development fee is qn incentive and reward not a token handout to the poor

- I don't mind the 23 man roster or even a trade window at Christmas ...but make players and teams accountable to each other...take the idea that you can just run away if you don't like the way things are run or if the player isn't "performing" and you"ll force everyone to work with each other rather than constantly lookin for easy way out....developmen takes time and commitment and can't happen when players and teams can just throw in the towel on each other so easily and quickly

- is it fair that kid go to RBC ? Ask the 4 or 5 kids that bust *** all year and do everything asked only to get sat or released for 20 yr olds at trade deadline....once again you don't see this kind of movement in the ECHL or AHL fOr the purpose of winning a championship and as for kids leaving Ontario if the OJHL had an NCAA /OHL partnership that properly and aggresivly promoted players and Ontario being the largest hockey market in Canada there is no way a kid would choose to leave just for an RBC run....an Ontario championship combined with an unparalleled player development and exposure program would be the jewel program for any NCAA or OHL program tO look at

- while i somewhat agree on territorial protection, the benefit far outweighs downside ... One mans bozos are another's saviors...who's really the bozo the team that has great coaching but doesn't buy sticks? How about the team that won't put Johnny on the power play? If the league set standards of operations that were reasonable and development criteria that was attainable any suggestion of bozo would be mostly subjective ...and is probably now anyways...right now the biggest "bozos" are simply the ones not spending and losing hundreds of thousands or are playing their kids 1 st line every night.....there's ways to modify a territory protection so everyone's happy but again if it's about development

Few rebutal points

-some TEAMS do well developing etc but the issue was a development LEAGUE....the AHL for example has a clear affiliation agreement and purpose statement to develop players for their NHL affiliate and they get funding to do so...they don't buy themselves 5 or 6 overagers at the trade deadline to win a championship ....I agree with developing partnerships and it should be the LEAGUE nonindividual teams doing it...once again to be a development league

- a $1500 fee from the O is a deterrent to developing a player not an incentive...a decent player goes for 5k min in the league and much much more...10-15k for a top one is not unheard of....offer a team 10k to get a kid to the O and thats a start to providing resources to get the job done properly ...a development fee is qn incentive and reward not a token handout to the poor

- I don't mind the 23 man roster or even a trade window at Christmas ...but make players and teams accountable to each other...take the idea that you can just run away if you don't like the way things are run or if the player isn't "performing" and you"ll force everyone to work with each other rather than constantly lookin for easy way out....developmen takes time and commitment and can't happen when players and teams can just throw in the towel on each other so easily and quickly

- is it fair that kid go to RBC ? Ask the 4 or 5 kids that bust *** all year and do everything asked only to get sat or released for 20 yr olds at trade deadline....once again you don't see this kind of movement in the ECHL or AHL fOr the purpose of winning a championship and as for kids leaving Ontario if the OJHL had an NCAA /OHL partnership that properly and aggresivly promoted players and Ontario being the largest hockey market in Canada there is no way a kid would choose to leave just for an RBC run....an Ontario championship combined with an unparalleled player development and exposure program would be the jewel program for any NCAA or OHL program tO look at

- while i somewhat agree on territorial protection, the benefit far outweighs downside ... One mans bozos are another's saviors...who's really the bozo the team that has great coaching but doesn't buy sticks? How about the team that won't put Johnny on the power play? If the league set standards of operations that were reasonable and development criteria that was attainable any suggestion of bozo would be mostly subjective ...and is probably now anyways...right now the biggest "bozos" are simply the ones not spending and losing hundreds of thousands or are playing their kids 1 st line every night.....there's ways to modify a territory protection so everyone's happy but again if it's about development

- all in all there the structure of the LEAGUE does not support any kind of development model anywhere...its very easy to see that the league has a lack of any real development structure and that is exactly why teams use money as the deciding factor in spending their way to the top

I'm with Ron on this one.
Was it wrong? Yeah.
Was it a human reaction to what he was watching for two hours? No doubt. Did it change the outcome of the game? Hardly. Was the motivation malicious? No.
But was it smart? No.
But.
Every person on the forum has seen referees ignore minor infractions late in a game by teams getting pasted. They "let it go."
Every person here has seen referees do "make up calls" after one team gets five or six consecutive penalties and there's danger of a game going sideways because a team feels the officials are against them. It happens. Sometimes you can almost predict the timing of a makeup call.
Has anyone here seen a referee send teams to the dressing room with 20 seconds left in the third period following a brawl? I have.
Game officials make judgements, and they also make mistakes. They are human.
The league will deal with it. Life will go on.
I'm not condoning it, it should not have happened. But it's not new.
As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, the league has bigger fish to fry than 20 missing seconds in a blowout.

I have met Derek, and respect him a lot from a personal level, so it bothered me a bit when I read his original message, because I understand what he did, but don't agree with it. I felt bad for him as I read it as I realized what a can of worms he had just mistakenly opened. Having said that though, I think Ron's post above summed up exactly what my thoughts are as well.

I think the part that bothers me most though was waiting to see just how long it would take for duke2160 to jump all over it. That's REALLY getting old.

Keep yer chin up Sharpie. In my opinion you made a mistake, but I make them everyday, and a lot have involved Emails where I typed what was on my mind, but probably shouldn't have...just ask my boss.

Craig.

Sorry ,but duke 2160 was not the only one we have heard from on this topic
he or she just happens to be one of the first that piled on

so now you look like you may have an axe to grind by only pointing out one person that you dislike



Sharpie has been critcized before by many on these forums and he seems to look after himself just fine.

sharpie will do the proper thing and that will be for him to decide and only him

an error in judgement and then owning up to the mistake can only make you a stonger person

good luck sharpie



tic toc tic toc

Hi Conwell.

You are correct, many of us have had an opinion on this. Only one of us though felt the need to start an entire new thread about it though.

Maybe I do have an axe to grind. lol

DtoD , for your earnest defence of the Whitby Fury.

I can't say I recall any other posts by you. Glad you joined us.

I am also happy that you fully endorse Whitby's shellacking of Pickering. Because, as you say, this ain't HOUSE LEAGUE and it's been done all over the league.

Oh and.......

if there is a Whitby/Kingston best of five first round playoff, I can expect the same kind of serious drubbing your team gave Pickering if the opportunity presents itself in the playoffs against the Vees.

I will be sure to take my lumps with my team because it is junior A. Look me up. I would be happy to buy you a coffee.

Have a nice day.

Wayjoy

With regards to sharps there two ways to think of it

If this is a real league...a true developmental league...a league to be respected and admired....a league that patterns itself after professionals...then unfortunately there must be consequences. A team fine is probably most appropriate with a suspension of duties for a while.

But as it's a league that scrapes for volunteers where the qualifications are just to show up consistently and not quit when the coach or owner won't listen to your thoughts on lines or PP .... And thee is no money to actually pay team officials then this will just go away because there's prob nobody other than family to do the job

No offense to sharps but just look at the posts day to day...when volunteers have the "inside" scoop and the owners ear on operations it's just a sad mickey mouse product

In case there is anyone out there who still believes this doesn't matter ....


Frozen clock may have let L.A. Kings win in final second

By Tom Weir, USA TODAY
Updated 54m ago

By Mark J. Terrill, AP
It is said that time waits for no man. But that doesn't appear to have been case for Drew Doughty and the Los Angeles Kings last night.

Doughty scored the game-winning goal against Columbus with just four-tenths of a second remaining. But if you watch the clock in the upper left hand corner of this video you'll see that there's a glitch with 1.8 seconds left.

The clock freezes very briefly, but that perhaps is what gave Doughty just enough time to fire his 20-foot shot into the net for the 3-2 victory.

UPDATE: Blue Jackets GM Scott Howson, who was not at the game, said in his blog that he had talked to the NHL's Colin Campbell twice after the game. Wrote Howson:

"Sometimes in watching the game on television there can be confusion with respect to the game clock. Some television broadcasts use their own game clock that is not official with the rink. However, and after double checking, Colin confirmed that we were actually seeing the official game clock stop for one full second. Therefore, when you do the math, Drew Doughty actually scored 0.4 seconds after time had expired, which means the goal should have been disallowed and should have gone to overtime. Colin has promised me that the NHL will investigate this to try and figure out how this happened."

Here we go again.
Do you really think this is the same thing? Unbelievable.

I'll try not to use big words for you so you can understand,

If the Kings Timekeeper had openly admitted earlier in the season that he shaved time off the clock on purpose, then this would be a massive issue to the NHL and its credibility.

Now, if the same thing that happened in Los Angeles happens in Whitby or Markham in the future, where do you think the heads will turn to ?

Thanks for dumbing it down for me, Duke.

If you really believe that this is the same thing, I sympathize with you and your pathetic life. Seems like you spend an inordinate (big word?) amount of time laying in wait for Sharpie. Running a few seconds off in a blowout to potentially alleviate emabarrassment (big word?) of teenage boys is no indication of a sinister and devious plot to rob a team of a goal by not starting the clock with the expressed purpose of effecting the outcome of the game. What Sharpie admitted to didn't change the fact that the game was decided and out of reach.

You are right to say that purposely not starting the clock to try and gain advantage is wrong and should be punished. Running it in a blowout is debatable but certainly not "grassy knoll" material as you suggest.

As I've said on a thread on FTFBTF, anybody who wants to discuss this further is free to do so, with me, at the rink. There is no story here, no matter how hard you try to create one. If you want to discuss it further, come see me and I'll be happy to talk about it, just as I did with SMC when I saw him. He'll confirm I'm a pleasant guy to talk to. I think I'm being more than fair and reasonable about this.

shamrook - answer this simple and straightforward question - if the time clock in Markham or Whitby fails anytime that Sharpie is in control of it, who will be the first person to be challenged ?

Sounds like something you'd like to discuss that with me in person. I look forward to meeting you. I'll buy the coffee.

It may not be the same thing, but it's on the same slippery slope if they find something untoward happened in the Kings-Blue Jackets game. The concern is about introducing subjectivity into something that is supposed to be handled objectively. It's meant to be whistle stop and any deviation from that, whether it is to help a team win, to avoid a team's embarrassment, or even to go home early is cause for concern.

To answer your question, Duke. In the scenario you created, If anyone asks the question, it will be YOU. Not anyone else who knows Sharpie. Just YOU. That we can be assured.

Beaver seems like he wants to discuss it further too. Man, I'm going to be spending a fortune on coffee.