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Deciding what is "normal" for Frenulum

February 2 2009 at 4:22 PM
Anonymous  (no login)

Dear Jim and Paul,
First of all thank you for supporting this forum as its very informative and motivating for the vast majority of its readers.

I have read a lot of posts in this forum trying to figure out the proper direction for my story and I decided to post this topic anyway as there are some black holes in my knowledge of this subject and hopefully by taking a more general approach this topic may clear things for other readers as well.

As you have pointed out there are some "popular" websites on the net that are offering some incorrect approaches on the topic of Short Frenulum. But as most of the pictures used on this forum are from www.foreskin.org let us look at one particular set of pictures (which I think creates the most confusion) to decide what is the best case scenario - which we shall try to reach with various methods (stretching etc). This link - http://www.foreskin.org/3zones-c.htm - illustrates 5 pictures of foreskin retraction. I would be very thankful if you could comment on picture 4 and 5. Shall the foreskin go that back (especially like on 5) and shall the stretching be continued until that kind of result is reached.
The answer to this question makes clear many things.

My Story
I am 25 years old and I have had a normal sex life. In all of my relations I used condom and I didn't have any discomforts or anything. However, recently I had sex without condom and I ended up with a slightly scratched frenulum. I found about it in the shower the next morning so there was no bleeding or pain when it actually happened. I let it heal a bit but the next time I had sex I felt something was not right during the intercourse and I tried to be extra careful, but I ended up tearing it a bit.
So I did research the matter on the net and found out that short frenulum is the reason for this tear. As it is outlined in almost every post in this topic - stretching is the key. However, I would like to understand some of the mechanics in detail to decide the most appropriate treatment for my case and as you may have guessed we all consider our cases special :D.

To add some more detail into my case,I can retract my foreskin without problems or discomfort just behind my glans (picture 3 on previous link). Also I would like to point out that my frenulum starts right after the pee hole, unlike on this picture - http://www.foreskin.org/ 46-33-11.jpg (picture number 11) - where frenulum is attached to the bottom part of the glans. As a result when forcefully retracted even further (picture 4 on previous link, but not that far) the shape of glance and my pee hole is changed and they are pulled forward. First of all it doesn't look nice, second it closes the canal during ejaculation if in certain position (and I think that may be a problem when I decide to have children (?)). It looks much like this one when applying force - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frenulum_breve (the picture on right).

I have visited local urologist just in case to get some advice and he told me that there are 3 ways to treat this condition. Surgery (frenuloplasty), stretching with creams and a combination of stretching/cream/special device(o_O) that hastens things up. I had a chat with him on how the stretching or that special treatment actually works and he said that the frenulum is lengthened by around 3-5 milimeters and that it somehow(?) becomes much more elastic after the procedure. Now, that would have been the solution if my frenulum started a bit further down the glans (maybe it would not have been a problem at all and I wouldn't have torn it), but when it starts so high I do not really think that increase in length will change anything and during the intercourse it will stretch anyway (but not enough) and it may tear again and it will definitely bend down glans and close pee hole anyway, 5mm + or - shall not be changing that much.
I told him all this and he said that that will not happen and everything will be "OK".
To be honest I am not convinced...

Now, back to you guys, what could you comment on this not so short story and what would you recommend. Is ordinary stretching techniques that are suggested throughout this forum enough ? or frenuloplasty may be a better solution ?
Thank you in advance,

(Premier Login jimsplacetofixthings)

Yes, everyone is special

February 2 2009, 5:41 PM 

Your condition is actually within normal bounds, but if you wish to have more mobility, you'll need to lengthen the frenulum. I agree with the doctor, that it should pose no problem once you've acomplished your goal. Go for it.

I'm curious about the device. What is it? Can you post a picture of it?

Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

"Normal" not really the point

February 3 2009, 6:04 AM 

Well of course, the Wikipedia page you cite could itself be included amongst those websites offering incorrect approaches on the topic of Short Frænulum (such as the ever popular "healing with scar tissue which is less flexible"), but since it presently includes a link to this forum (is that how you came here?) which has actually persisted for a whole nine months, I should perhaps not be too critical. Clearly it has not come to the attention of the "Internet Pest" who effectively patrols and censors this group of topics.

Now you of course realise that all the main pictures at foreskin.org are of a perfectly normal penis, and indeed the "33 pictures" would appear to be all of the same penis. What you may not have yet discerned, is that pictures four and particularly five of the "Three Zones" set (which are also the last two of the main set) show that even on this "normal" penis, pulling the foreskin back to its maximum extent does pull down on the glans.

Concisely going through the points you raise,
  • You describe no problems when using a condom, but discomfort and/ or tearing when not using one (presumably now married/ desiring to have children wink.gif). Clearly, the condom was protecting you from significant drag (since it does not "protect" you from centripetal pressure) and there is a strong suspicion that such drag is excessive due to a lack of lubrication.

  • Tearing is not catastrophic. Brisk bleeding can be controlled by firm pressure applied over a clean pad, such as a tissue folded four or five (or six) times, for five to ten minutes. I have been doing just this similar thing quite a few times throughout my day today. By tradition, women are even expected to bleed from a tight hymen. Healing takes a while; if it tears, that has much the same effect as deliberately cutting it anyway (and heals no faster or slower - why would it?).

  • If it tears on a few occasions, sooner or later it will be loose enough not to tear further!

  • Stretching makes (common) sense. I recommend in your situation, "do what you do" - try the stretching. If it tears further, let it heal, see how it goes and keep on stretching. In particular, stretch gently as soon as it has healed over.

  • Yes, clearly there are variants in the exact structure of the frænulum, such that it appears to attach more or less closely to the meatus. Actually, the position of the meatus itself is quite variable (and its vertical size - various degrees of failure to develop to the normal degree result in grades of hypospadias). I suppose it may make it more or less difficult to stretch. I do not however think this makes a great if indeed any difference in how you approach stretching, as in all cases, it will take time and require patience - to a degree I cannot possibly predict!

  • Tension on the frænulum can cause some obstruction of the meatus. This might to some degree alter the dynamics of ejaculation, but would have to be pretty tight to completely block the meatus and in any case, would only do so during the extreme inward thrust. As soon as the tension subsides, the semen is going to be ejected just as forcefully (or indeed, perhaps more so depending on the timing) and as I have stated before (was trying to find the reference), the only real reason that it may be "evolutionarily" advantageous to spurt semen over a distance in the first place, would be to impregnate a woman intent on pulling away - we hope that would not be the case when you propose to start a family! happy.gif
Again, I think you are lucky to be in a country with competent urologists - it would be difficult to obtain such sane advice in the USA. You have me wondering just which "special device" he would suggest to specifically lengthen the frænulum.

Just how much length you achieve by stretching depends on how effectively and how long (weeks or months) you do the stretching. The frænulum is not easy to stretch, but as Jim will tell you, some men practice foreskin "restoration" to remedy the damage of circumcision, necessitating not millimetres, but centimetres of stretching of the penile skin; it is really a matter of determination.

(no login)

Re: "Normal" not really the point

February 3 2009, 2:15 PM 

Hello Jim and Paul and thank you for a swift and informative answers.
On the topic of Mobility, as I have never had problems when using condoms I may have got a bit careless when not using it... the amount of lubrication seemed just fine, but maybe not enough in this case happy.gif.

As for the "special device" I have seen it on a picture only (for now) and it didn't really tell me anything about its function (it was like a box with wires o_O).
Now when I recall a chat with him he did mention that stretching with cream may take up to a month to achieve the needed result, but the downside is that there are no promises here as everyone is special and results may very and sometimes it takes much longer and thus it may cost more. However, this other "combined treatment" as he called it, needs only 10 days (5-6 visits 15-20 mins per session) to do the job, because the intensity of treatment can be adjusted on every visit, thus the result is guaranteed (o_O). Now this all sounds really strange and my guess is that that device somehow stimulates cell growth (O_O) using a low frequency waves (I think he mentioned something like that). Anyway, I will have to ask people about that particular method and see what it really does as I don't want to test stuff on myself :D. I will report any information I find on this matter just in case.

Until then I will have to let my tear heal fully before stretching it (tested and it started bleeding sad.gif).
Overall I shall thank you again for supporting this forum and providing us all with valuable information.
I will post any updates on this matter and hope it will help other people reading this forum.

(Premier Login jimsplacetofixthings)

Now I'm really curious

February 3 2009, 9:25 PM 

Please let us know as soon as possible about this device, especially the name of it. Perhaps we can Google it.

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