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TMS, Phimosis & erection

July 27 2012 at 6:17 AM
anon1234  (Login renx123)

I am a guy in late 20's who has just got an opportunity to be sexually active. Problem is from my teens I have been masturbating face-down by rubbing my penis against the bed. I researched & apparently some call it TMS but the jury is out on whether it's good or bad. A year back I managed to masturbate using my hand but I still prefer the face-down thing.I also have phimosis - my glans is hypersensitive I tried stretching in the bath as suggested here & elsewhere for almost close to 3 months but it didn't help.

Now the other problem is when trying to have sex I find it difficult to maintain a strong erection for even a reasonable amount of time especially when trying to insert during an intercourse - it just becomes "semi-erect". Initially i thought it could be because of my fear of rubbing my glans but I now feel that i have an erection problem too. Also my erection is good if think of kinky stuff. I watch a lot of porn...

Sorry if this is rambling but this is killing me, is this all due to the phimosis thing. Maybe my penis is accustomed to the pressure driven masturbation & it's affecting my erection... I am confused I feel circumcision could help me out here, but I don't know if my problems have a pshycological element to it...

Appreciate if anybody have any suggestions or pointers regarding my problem.


(Premier Login jimsplacetofixthings)

Other factors

July 27 2012, 8:32 AM 

The tight foreskin is likely not a factor. I think the problem is due to your manner of masturbating. To be honest, I'd never head the term TMS before you mentioned it, but in reading about it, it can cause problems as you describe. Evidently, it conditions your penis and your mind to a particular stimulus which is not duplicated in intercourse or even in a more conventional way of masturbating. My advice is to stop doing it.

Meanwhile, the issue with the tightness probabaly should be addressed. Take the matter more seriously this time and attempt to do as the pictures we have posted here illustrate. You might also be well served in using a device to provide the needed coaxing of the opening to widen. Try the manual methods first and then we can discuss how to go about using a device.

Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

Kill the porn!

July 27 2012, 4:07 PM 

I am personally, a "TMS Sceptic". I think that there are certain interesting points in the argument, but I doubt it is quite as "damaging" as claimed.

I will observe that "humping" and phimosis go together. I suggest in fact, that there are only two really practical situations for "humping"; having a foreskin that will not retract, and being circumcised. The latter is certainly harmful; if you feel circumcision could "help you out", then you really are departing from sanity. The reason that circumcised men do not complain of excess "sensitivity" of the glans is that continuous exposure of the glans to trauma from clothing and bedclothes, has rendered it insensitive. Masturbation practiced by "humping" against dry sleepwear or worse, sheets, can only add to this desensitisation so that subsequent contact with a well-lubricated vagina will offer nowhere near the same degree of stimulation.

If you have a foreskin that retracts, then it will be quite difficult to "hump" in a manner such that the glans is always protected from direct contact and because you will have a sensitive glans, this will generally be unsatisfactory, stroking with the hand will allow far better control of the foreskin movement. Again, actually persisting with a process where the glans does contact the outside material, will reduce its sensitivity for subsequent sexual activity.

So if your foreskin simply will not retract, this actually makes "humping" quite practical and the protection of the foreskin guards the sensitivity of the glans - as you observe. It may still be a little difficult to match the degree of stimulation in intercourse, but you have preserved the valuable sensitivity of the glans once you effect the stretching to achieve normal retraction. Never imagine that this sensitivity is a "problem" - contained in a nice slippery vagina - its "natural element" - it will be just what you want. happy.gif

Losing an erection when attempting to effect intercourse - referred to as "performance anxiety" - is indeed, entirely psychological. You must stop viewing intercourse as the "target" which you have "failed" to reach. I am presuming your objective is not fatherhood at this point, so you will also be using a condom, will you not?

The steps you need to take at this point are:
  1. Lose the porn. Everything about it is wrong, teaching you expectations that simply do not correspond to your "real life" situation but will simply confuse you. As I said, if you ever think circumcision will benefit you or anyone else in any manner whatsoever, then you already are terribly confused.

    It is important that being with your lady-friend is and remains far more exciting than porn.

  2. Do the stretching as described in the whole, on this discussion board (and not "and elsewhere"). You should be stretching the foreskin opening, and the fr├Žnulum. This will allow you to utilise the sensitivity of your glans.

  3. It no doubt will be a good idea to give up "humping" masturbation. If as a result you become more "horny", that will facilitate getting used to "normal" stroking - which is also what you want your lady-friend to practice on you if you have any difficulty "getting there" with intercourse. Actually, this should be a pre-condition for intercourse; you should not even be attempting intercourse until you are entirely proficient in "mutually" stroking each other to orgasm (or perhaps, employing oral sex).

  4. Further to the last, forget the expectations of intercourse, and concentrate on enjoying sex. That's what is it for after all (unless you hold some perverted religious belief that it is only for achieving pregnancy).

  5. Lose the porn! Did I mention that?
Have I missed anything?

(Login IHateYouPhimosis)

Another case of the internet lol

August 15 2012, 6:06 PM 

TMS sounds like just another ******** term created, maybe they'll market some new drug from it or something.

Errections are just as much mental as they are physical. If you can get errections just fine while alone you don't have errectile issues so put the viagra and knifes down. Suffice to say you're young and paranoid about having sex. You are checking out your penis and scared it doesn't work right. Anxiety plus sex = limp dick. You can't go shoving your penis in without reckless abandon while you have phimosis because you'll probably hurt yourself lol.

I don't agree with needing to put the porn down, society blah blah it has nothing to do with your sex issues. Sexual education is pretty lacking and porn is one of the ways to see the extent of what an uncircumcized penis should be capable of.

What you need is communication with your partner. Take your time putting it in, have her help out by adjusting her pelvis or literally telling you when to "push".. use lube. Also I imagine you're overwhelmed by all the stimulus you're getting so it might actually help to have the lights off to remove the visual stimulus. The more relaxed you are the better your errection will be as errections are a parasympathetic event (rest and digest system).

I had sex with phimosis my entire adult life thus far and I'm 32 now. So it's definitely possible to enjoy it. Getting nervous while having sex for the first couple times and losing an errection is not unique to those with phimosis, even our unhooded brothers have that issue.

It's no biggie to have masturbated by rubbing your groin on something, note that TMS is a "syndrome" and syndromes don't have "causes" they're just a culmination of symptoms so masturbating by rubbing your groin on something doesn't cause TMS if it did it wouldn't be a syndrome. I masturbated like that as a kid too and it felt great. Reading things on the internet had me believing I scarred my penis from doing that but the reality is my penis is perfectly fine and has no adhesions what so ever. It was just a tight phimotic ring and glans that had never been exposed to the environment that made sex uncomfortable at times.

In terms of being unable to accomplish much with manual techniques. I'd advise getting the novoglan it was great at getting me started. It at least helped me to get the opening wide enough to put the foreskin past the glans while flaccid. After some desensitization time after I outgrew the device I can now do the manual stretching methods listed here. And doing all these stretches has still been to most productive/comfortable for me in the warm/hot tub. When I just started this process that little balloon was the only thing gentle enough to get results without me feeling like I was about die lol. And contrary to the directions included in the device I always held the syringe in hand to keep increasing the tension once I felt I could take a bit more. The trick at first is getting the insertion of the device right. But when you're just starting out everything is tight anyway lol.

Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

Now that's some feedback.

August 16 2012, 5:05 AM 

I still have to say though, that pornography is no more "educational" than a term in gaol is. wink.gif Yes, you "learn" things, but they are not things that actually benefit you - more the opposite.

I am not simply talking about "technique"; not that that is realistically depicted in porn in any case, but as much about attitudes and expectations, as I explained above. There simply is no need to know "what an intact penis should be capable of" beyond what is simple common sense. Certainly, there are a few basic principles such as lubrication, but I can summarise that (and frequently have here) in a couple of paragraphs.

And in particular, my advice always focuses on self-discovery and "self-actualisation" - you do not need a plethora of "examples" to follow in sex, rather it is all about a learning process in which a couple participates and develops their own repertoire. This process does not fail for lack of novel ideas, it fails when either or both simply lose the desire for the other and become self-centred.

For this same reason, experience of multiple partners is not a demonstration of skill, it is instead, a proof of failure. OK, people do fail, but failing to learn from failure is failure indeed.

(Login IHateYouPhimosis)


August 16 2012, 12:38 PM 

Well I actually do think pornography can be educational, not much different then reading a karma sutra and definitely more educational then those videos in elementary school deemed "sexual education". Porn is all about the act and I respectfully disagree that technique is not shown... However if you're trying to learn how to seduce women by wearing a pizzaman uniform then you're probably trying to learn the wrong thing.

I don't see how watching people have sex or reading about sex or hearing people talk about sex is detrimental to your development. In fact I'd say that it helps you understand commonality with others on a physical level and what others could deem pleasurable on a physical level. Victorian morality is best left in the victorian era, in my opinion.

I also don't understand why there would be no "need to know". Not everyone likes to learn things "the hard way" if everyone did then there wouldn't be this forum dedicated to passing on knowledge and answering questions that seem to recur with a common problem. And we are not like the dogs, sexual intercourse and humans isn't as much about instinct or common sense as one would believe.

Especially considering no one ever really talks about men who have pain simply inserting their penis in a vagina due to phimosis. Or men who get yeast infections on their penis. Common sense is only common if the problem is common and I'd argue that such problems are pretty rare in the circumcized majority. Not to mention the plethora of other things mentioned in this forum. Many people do feel a need to learn about something before they attempt it, there is nothing wrong with this process.

I don't believe real world examples impede the development of a couple's own repertoire nor does it impede self-actualization. Not everyone feels the need to invent the book when it's already written. Of course you have to learn your partner's needs and your experiences are going to be a joint venture but it doesn't mean you can't introduce new things that you've picked up from sources independent of your own mind or independent of what your partner has communicated to you as pleasurable.

Anyway that's my opinion on the matter.

(Premier Login jimsplacetofixthings)

Here's where the danger is

August 17 2012, 6:38 AM 

Porn is addictive. When you engage in viewing it, you are subjecting yourself to another form of dope. Eventually, you'll get hooked because you'll begin to think you've missed just another aspect of it, so you'll watch more. Bingo, you're a victim.

At the moment, it may look benign, and although you've actually built a very good case for your motives, forces far stronger than you have motives quite different from your own and will eventually make you captive to its allure. You see, there is really no way you can view porn without becoming aroused sexually. Your sexual appetite will draw you back time and time again to re-experience that euphoric feeling, yet you'll never satisfy it completely. Chemical effects upon your brain may bring permanent changes which can never be satisfied by the natural way you were programmed to find such satisfaction. In this manner, your sexual life will be destroyed.

You may think Paul and I are just a couple of old fashioned fuddy-duddies who don't understand the younger generation. Well, we were the younger generation at one time, and we felt the same way. Time has proven that we hadn't yet experienced enough in life to judge everything which was right or wrong for us. The advice of our elders turned out to be right, but we had to fall a few times and get hurt in order to learn those lessons. We're just trying to save you some bruises or possibly a crippling injury. Porn has the capacity to destroy you whether you presently choose to believe that or not. Ask yourself if you'd have the same casual acceptance to trying meth or heroine. The same answer applies.

Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

We appear to be discussing entirely different things.

August 17 2012, 3:12 AM 

I'm not sure where you obtain the sort of porn you describe which shows genuine loving sexual exploits which are significantly (or indeed, even remotely) pleasurable for the women participants. Such as seems to come my way would appear to be "as different as chalk and cheese" (and more toward the "chalky" variety), though when you mention pizza delivery "boys", that does seem to represent the sort to which I refer. These do not by any stretch(!) of the imagination constitute "real world examples". sad.gif

I do of course sympathise with your comment about how trivial and superficial "sex education" as offered in schools - elementary or otherwise - is. No, neither do I "see how watching people have sex or reading about sex or hearing people talk about sex is detrimental to your development" and I would be all for it, but again - that is not what the more common varieties of pornography depict. What is commonly depicted is not pleasurable, particularly to the female participants. It is simply bizarre!

And the problem I see is just that - those who most need education on the realities of sex, will be the least capable to distinguish how far what is depicted in pornography, deviates from reality and for the very reason that they already lack that fundamental knowledge. The most specific two examples of this are the implication that women might in some circumstance be instantly ready for intercourse, or that they actually derive significant pleasure from vaginal penetration with minimal body contact and negligible or cursory clitoral and breast pleasuring. The obvious consequences of this are that boys will incorporate such aberrant expectations and that girls will be distressed by the gross dichotomy between such expectations on the boys' part and the reality of their own feelings.

Good luck to you if you truly believe you yourself are "above" such influences, but if you are honest you will know that younger people are not so knowledgeable by any means.

The only saving grace I see in current pornography (or such samples as I have seen), is the "normalisation" of foreskins and as a subset, examples of phimotic foreskins being demonstrated in masturbation and intercourse. This however, hardly legitimises the majority of patently mendacious material. You certainly do not see any portrayal of fellows dealing with the problems we discuss here (more's the pity); you do not even see representation of real foreplay (because of course, it's not what people value to see).

(Login IHateYouPhimosis)

Re: We appear to be discussing entirely different things.

August 18 2012, 3:07 PM 

I just don't agree with this idea that you must supress sexual curiosity in the form of porn in order to avoid becoming some sex addict or porn addict.

Lots of things are addictive to certain types of people. Alcohol is addictive, salt combined with fat and carbohydrates are addictive. Gambling is addictive... etc etc. Yet people can easily do such activities and not have it effect their life in a deleterious way. I've drank, I've had fast food, I've gambled, and I've watched porn. I don't consider myself an addict to either thing. There is a clear delineation between people who have watched porn and those who are addicted.

Watching porn to the point to where you can't get an errection sans the porn is an example of someone who is allowing it to interfere with normal functioning, not unlike someone who drinks alcohol to the point where they miss work or neglect their family.

Throughout the history of man there have been people who are addicted to sex, sexual novelty, and sexual masochism. Those occurances predate the invention of porn and even if one were to eliminate porn from earth it could continue. Porn being a cause of terrible sexual ideals is like saying video games and explict lyrics in songs cause violent crimes.

I have no idea how old either of you are so I never placed any "outdated" mindset. I know plenty of young people who view porn the same way you both seemingly do. I respect it and think it's great if it enhances your lives and I don't seek to change your mindset. I am only stating my opinion on the matter.

I never mentioned porn as loving either lol, I said it depicts sexual technique. The point of bringing the pizza guy up was to illustrate that you can observe the world and make you own interpetation. If you can deduce that it's not likely you're going to deliver pizza and get laid by a horny housewife you can probably deduce there is acting going on in the sexual activity as well... perhaps the women are acting like they enjoy things that some women wouldn't? Seems reasonable.

In terms of men anticipating women would be ready to have sex without foreplay as a result of watching porn.. it kind of makes me laugh because I don't think men would understand the role of foreplay if there wasn't porn either... at least not their first couple times. Also... watching porn does not impede the realization that foreplay is important.

Some women can orgasm by thinking about sex, some women can orgasm by intercouse, some women can orgasm via anal, some women can orgasm only via clitoral stimulation, some women have never orgasmed, and the list goes on and on. No one is going to have the correct assumption about their partners pleasure independent of communication with them, regardless of how much they've watched porn. Being naive to sex doesn't increase your compacity to understand women in comparison to those who could have acquired some assumptions via porn. Assumptions are only assumptions and it's the communication and testing of hypothesis where the knowledge is going to come in regardless of your starting point.

What would you call the series entitled: A girls guide to the 21st century sex? That'd be interesting to know.

(Premier Login jimsplacetofixthings)

You're already in denial

August 18 2012, 7:12 PM 

I deal with addictive behavioral issues on a daily basis. I've been doing this for several years, and I've had darned good training and lots of experience. What you are saying is what all addicts say before they realize they are in bondage to their addition.

You are heading down a slippery slope. Make no mistake that porn is every bit as destructive as meth, and it's just as difficult to quit.

For a good reference on love, go to I Corinthians 13. If you'd like a good love story, read the book of Songs. God gave even directions on foreplay.

(no login)

I think it's relative to the person

August 22 2012, 12:11 AM 

Anything that stimulates the pleasure centers of the brain can be addictive and porn is no different who gets addicted to what is much more complicated. However to say that someone is in denial about their addiction to porn without knowing the frequency they even watch it is kind of strange. It'd be analogous to saying someone who drinks alcohol is in denial that they are an alcoholic without knowing the frequency that the consume alcohol. Also the circumstance that the behaviors take place matters. A person who drinks heavily everyday? Well you'd say they are an alcoholic.. but perhaps that person is simply on spring break and doesn't really drink at all minus this situation... still an alcoholic? I wouldn't say so.. not simply based off that information.

If you watch porn while you're in a relationship and you don't find your partner sexually attractive, you don't act concerned with their feelings or bond with them during sexual intercourse, you argue over porn, you feel inadequate, you increase your chances to cheat, or something along those lines then I'd say you have an issue. I don't think there is anything wrong with masturbation and people have been masturbating long before porn was made and can still do so independently from porn. Heck before porn came along you could rub one out to a sears catalog lol.

I'd rather see people masturbate then go and have sex with anyone they can to fulfill to obtain a release. Self love is a lot less likely to pass on STDs.

(Premier Login jimsplacetofixthings)

Somewhat relative

August 22 2012, 10:10 AM 

However, anyone can fall into addictions. Even people with very strong convictions against such behavior become ensnared.

There are thousands of alcoholics who are in denial of their addictions. There are also thousands of people in relationships with alcoholics who are in denial of their own addictions to the alcoholic's behavior as well as being in denial of the partner's alcoholism. Addiction tends to shut down the facing of facts surrounding the addiction. It comes upon one in such a sublime manner that the addiction is full blown before action can be taken. It is not unusual for recovery to take many months or even years to occur. Relapse is common, and it takes no time at all to go full speed ahead after even many years of being "On the wagon."

I state before that I've had lots of experience with this, and I deal regularly with addicts. The substance is just incidental, but the behavior is universal.

Be careful. Denying the danger is part of the denial process. Perhaps you've heard someone remark that he could quit drinking at any time. Sure.

Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

Still not getting the idea.

August 20 2012, 4:42 AM 

OK, so you have fixed on Jim's observations about the "addictive" nature of porn. I don't believe I actually commented on that before now - it is a slightly separate consideration.

My concern was focused on the assertion that porn was in some manner "educational" which I continue to find quite laughable. It cannot be educational because it is thoroughly misleading. Yes, it is "theatre" but with an essential difference. If you watch a James Bond movie, you "feel" the part during the action, but as soon as the movie stops, you reasonably quickly drop back to reality. Porn is quite different, all the more so if you begin to "act out" the action, which it is no surprise to find that is what you are actually intended to do in response.

This might just be harmless if that action represented a "real world" rehearsal of something which it would benefit you to practice - but it is not. People learn by such rehearsal, and rehearsing the wrong thing makes it all the more likely that they will mimic the wrong response in a "real world" situation. You would not deliberately do this in any other enterprise, and it most certainly does not benefit people - indeed I would think not even you - to deliberately practice to get things wrong. sad.gif

If you are in a position to observe people getting such things wrong - and I submit that Jim and I have had such ample opportunity - then you - we - simply cannot assert that there is some "benefit" in deliberately misleading "information". And it is not merely that it is slightly misleading in a few details; the degree to which it is wrong is such that it becomes grossly confusing to the viewer. Foreplay is just not represented in pornography, it is caricatured - in fact, that is the best description of it overall - a risible caricature of sexual activity.

In conflict with your assertions, no, porn by and large isn't even "a starting point".

Actually, it appears both Jim and I have a major interest in management of addiction(s), he apparently in a voluntary capacity, myself in a "professional" one. You may argue whether sex is in itself addictive, in the same manner as food in which latter case the facts rather speak for themselves by way of the "epidemic" of obesity in (not only) "Western" society and this does introduce the element of marketing into the equation.

Therein lies an important point about porn. Beyond "sexting", people do not go to the trouble of producing porn for the "public good" any more than casinos offer roulette. They produce it specifically to be addictive, to create a demand, so they produce it in a form such as to create demand. And that is automatically, unequivocally contrary to making it truthful or educational.

It should be mentioned here that I for one comprehend that legislation - making something illegal - is not merely ineffective, but actually causes an explosion (in popularity) of the said activity. The "cure" is not to "ban" or "eradicate" things - such as drug use, pornography, prostitution etc., but to educate people in advance so that they feel no need for these things.

As to the British TV series, I gather it is a documentary of sorts. Are you saying it is, or resembles pornography? When I refer to "pornography", I generally mean what people mean as pornography; which has nothing to do with, or in common with sex education. What is your point here?

(Login IHateYouPhimosis)

I have the idea :)

August 22 2012, 12:53 AM 

However something being misleading doesn't eliminate it from being educational.
You can watch a misleading hollywood love story and still learn something about how women think lol.

In terms of learning sexual technique from a video. I say it's analogus to watching a video on p90x to learn how to do an exercise or a video on how to tie a tie. You can't learn everything from watching the video but it at least can give you an idea of things to try with your body. You ever tried a wheel barrel? Fun to try but not practical.. blood rushes to your legs and doesn't stay in the penis lol.

You can also watch a video dedicated entirely to foreplay and get a good understanding on new things to try.

The point you seemed to have been making prior was that watching these videos is somehow going to decrease the chance that you learn about your partner, my point was to say that it doesn't prevent you from learning your partners wishes at all.

Now it appears that you're saying you'll do something improper due to the misleading information you acquired... once again when you're having sex for the first couple times you're bound to do something improper anyway because you have no baseline information about what is correct.

That's why I said sex with humans isn't very instinctual. I wonder how many non-sexed men understand the role of foreplay? My guess is not many. It's something that will likely have to be learned regardless of if you happened to have learned something improper before you had sex. And like anything thing else if you make a mistake you can learn and not make the mistake again.

No matter how much you watch porn you can't actually "practice" without a partner and that's when the focus is on the partner and you learn what they like and don't like. Maybe you try something you saw in a video and it doesn't go well? No biggie just won't do that again. Maybe you learn something they like that you wouldn't have thought they'd like...well there you go.

Like I said I think of it like watching video instructions on anything kinesthetic. I watched videos on the hack squat machine and I went and did the hack squat and it sucked for my body, I simply never will do it again.

And I never said porn was for the public good lol. There are likely people who shouldn't ever watch porn as there are people who should never gamble as there are people who should never drink, etc etc. To refute a point you made: despite the marketing from mcdonalds not everyone is obese. Many of us have the capacity to make decisions and deduce what is not beneficial for us.

There are things I've never done because I understand I likely have a genetic predisposition to become addicted: cigs and weed... in fact the only drug I've done is alcohol and I don't like to do that. My only vice is procrastination and writing in internet forums. In terms of being with a partner... for me it is all about making them sexually satisfied, bonding with them and learning about them... not about acting out some BDSM porn video or something lol. Are there people that can happen to? Of course, but that's not me.

The last part about the video was that many people call that pornography as well. It features two porn actors acting out sexual positions over a educational narration and also included an internal camera to show the penis' action inside a vagina..to name a few things. The role of that video is to educate but it still shows something you'd see in a porn video lol. I've seen videos on female orgasms, foreplay videos, sexual arousal, the purpose of different sexual techniques complete with what parts of the anatomy it hits more on the female. That sort of stuff is seen as porn as well. There are many that view you looking at naked women who you are not married to as pornography, ya know? The point about that video was also if you don't consider THAT porn...then what happens if you just take the sexual position video and turn the narration down to zero? Have you now created porn?

Anyway, I respect both of your guys opinions and you're really have a good forum going. I just like tangents, sorry wink.gif

(Premier Login jimsplacetofixthings)

No need for apologies

August 22 2012, 10:01 AM 

Hey, you have an opinion. So do we. It's healthy to debate. I just want you to be careful dealing with a practice which can enslave you. Trust me when I tell you it's no different from meth.

Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

Again, I am not going to labour the matter of "addiction".

August 22 2012, 3:15 PM 

The reason is, that as I explained, I have more than the usual familiarity with this sort of problem, and realise that there are, and always will be, plenty of opportunities despite purportedly well-meaning legislation (such as some presently being proposed in Tasmania, Australia) for people with such a predilection (and not uncommonly, an abused background), for it to manifest floridly.

I am simply disputing your suggestion that exposing people to material that is not just a little mendacious, but consistently and thoroughly, unrelentingly perverse, is or could ever be helpful to developing serious relationships "in real life". (This relates largely to men, but as I commented, while women are generally not as enthusiastic in seeking direct titillation from pornography, they may be tempted to inappropriately accept expectations from such to which they are exposed.)

Among your arguments here of the "benefits" of such material, you actually confess to this in subtle ways. Real sex - by which I mean what becomes a vital part of a permanent relationship - does not involve "positions" in order to "introduce novelty and relieve boredom", but does involve focus on all the foreplay which is definitely not ever described in common pornography. It begins to become apparent however that this is not your concept of "sex", so we clearly differ in viewpoint here.

So for example, when you say "it doesn't prevent you from learning your partners wishes at all", you are way off the mark; that is precisely what it does when it presents a completely perverse depiction of what women (and that is what we are talking about) find pleasurable. If a poor fellow who has as you describe, limited actual sexual experience with women, even for one moment believes that his real partner expects what he sees in pornography, he is immediately at disadvantage because - what the pornography does not tell you and what I suspect you have yet to comprehend - women are absolutely not "forgiving" of things they do not like. "No biggie just won't do that again" absolutely does not "cut it" because the "that" that will not be done again, does not - in the woman's mind - relate to the specific act, but to the whole sexual context.

Learning "not to make the mistake again" as often as not means learning with a new partner. Somehow I suspect from your comments, that is actually your own experience.

Finally, I certainly understand the whole contextual problem of our society's diseased attitude to sexual material. I have made it very clear here that there is a distinction between actual educational material, and pornography. I am in the process of downloading the series you cite in order to study it in detail, the tiny part I have so far looked at seems to be a little "daring", but largely factual. It seems clear that the intent is educational rather than prurient, which gives it a clear and absolute distinction from what I refer to as "pornography" and I should be very concerned if we were not in accordance on that distinction. Whether they do this using "porn" actors is of comparatively minor importance, it is the information content that counts, and that is what I have been saying all along.

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