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At about the middle stage of treating my phimosis and now I have some questions

August 2 2012 at 12:09 AM
IHateYouPhimosis  (Login IHateYouPhimosis)

So I'm a 31 year old with phimosis, I've had it all my life. Researched it a ton (that's how I ran across this forum).

I used to be unable to even see the entire urethra while flaccid lol.

I actually thought I had scarring or something because it was so sensative so I never attempted to retract because I thought I might tear something.

I had a girlfriend for 6 years and we had a good sex life with my phimosis however there were plenty of times when I'd get hurt because it'd get stretched too much and of course she'd have to be wet enough... things like longer "strokes" were not possible because it would get pulled and hurt. I couldn't really just shove it in, she had to maneuver a certain way sometimes especially in something like missionary. So it was good but could have been better without the occasional frustrations or inserting penis rituals.

Anyway we had sex without condoms, although I found condoms to be easier to "go harder" if you will... but obviously it didn't feel as good... the tradeoff is I got hurt less.

Since I became single again I decided I wanted to do something about my phimosis because it was a source of feeling like something was wrong with me.

I bought the novoglan and it did help enough to get to where I can get my foreskin behind my head while flaccid.

Of course I do this stretching routine in a hot tub because without that water there is no way my foreskin is even going past half of my head if dry. The foreskin definitely needs to warm up first.

My foreskin behind the head was of course was my first encounter with smegma and it's way too sensative to even touch the head at this point, so cleaning (with only water) isn't even happening right now.

Before I attempted to put the ring behind my head I'd put the ring over the largest part of my head and get a slight errection to stretch the ring out more then I would flaccid. I did this for a while because I didn't want to get paraphimosis.. that's like my biggest fear lol.

I did put the ring behind my head before but I was frightened to get remotely errect so it was really just to say wow I can get the ring behind the head now.

But today was the first day that I attempted to put the ring behind my head and get a slight errection. There was a bit of a stretching sensation which was kinda nerve racking lol. But overall it was not a big deal to lose the errection and the head didn't feel like it was trapped with blood at all.

So right now I am kind of at a transitional point where I can get a semi errection retracted and the band is definitely tighter then the shaft is wide so I assume masturbating while trying to get the ring stretched by the shaft is the best method for now?

I have a couple questions.
1) Sex - when someone gets rid of phimosis as I hope I can. Do you just put the penis in with the foreskin forward or do you retract it?
2) Does the head desensitize enough to the point where you can actually touch it without feeling like someone is going to kill you? A drop of water actually hurts a bit right now. Will doing something like letting the air hit the head for a couple minutes a day help? Because right now everything is in the tub for me. The reason I ask is because I want to get the smegma off one day, it looks gross.
3) Oral sex - I like it and I would like to receive it in the future... Should I expect that one day I'll be able to retract it dry and receive a bj where the woman won't be eating a bunch of smegma?
4) Lubricants... would you suggest using them in the beginning stages of this.. it just seems so counter intuitive because you'd figure once you could retract without pain that the vagina would be wet enough but then again I am not completely sure what it's like once it's in. I just don't want to get hurt or tear.. that's my new fear now that paraphimosis is not a big concern.
5) I read that allowing your head to be exposed while in your pants was a good way to toughen it up a bit. Right now the thought makes me cringe because like I said a drop of water hurts and even a moist tip of the finger hurts let alone cloth with movement.. but is that smart? It seems like it might not be... for instance right now when I let the head get dry and foreskin get dry it seems like it's not happy. And plus the inside of the foreskin is a mucous membrane so having it dry out seems pretty stupid... like flipping your eyelid inside out or pinning your lip so it remains exposed to the environment. Thoughts?

(Premier Login jimsplacetofixthings)

Good progress so far

August 2 2012, 7:46 AM 

1. Put it in however it is when it gets erect. It doesn't matter either way.

2. Yes, eventually this will sort out. Think of your eye the first time you tried to insert a contact lens. At the present a firm touch will probably work better than a soft touch. For the smegman, try some salad oil to soften it first. In the hot tub, it should rinse right off.

3. Happens every day!

4. Yes, lubricants will definitely help for now.

5. Exposure is a key, but you should be able to get plenty by retracting when peeing. Keeping it retracted may change the character of the mucosa, but covering it again will restore it. Note that the replacement schedule of new tissue in that area is quite frequent, hence the production of smegma which is sloughed off tissue.

At this point, you should be able to do the two finger approach we have illustrated in a post on this front page. Do it no less than twice daily. Also, don't fear paraphimosis. That's for old men and little boys.

(Login IHateYouPhimosis)

Thanks for the response.

August 2 2012, 12:58 PM 

So just put it in however huh? The reason I asked was because I noticed in the tub there is another tight band more proximal to the base then the actual ring itself and once the ring gets about halfway on the head (flaccid) the other tight band grabs under the head and tries to pull the ring below the head. It's kind of a cool design haha... but I figured that even pulling it forward while inserting would lead to it retracting inside anyway and I wondered if that'd hurt seems like it would right now lol... but I was also like would putting it in retracted cause the frenulum to become overstretched and hurt? Anyway end rant on that one.

But I can put drops into my eye before I used contact lenses without it hurting lol.
I'll try to use a firmer touch but I have a feeling it'll send me jumping out of the tub haha.

Oh yeah and when am I supposed to put the oil on the foreskin for the smegma removal? Should I do it a couple minutes before I take a bath or should I do it while I'm in the bath or something?

Thanks for the advice on lubricants.

Is this the two finger stretch you were referring to?
The page says to do the stretch for 10-20 2x/day is that pretty accurate?

Right now I'm in the tub for like an hour using a combination of novoglan and the new thing retracting and getting a slight errection. I don't ever end up sore so I don't think I'm overdoing it. Should I incorporate the stretches within the tub or is it better to it on dry land? lol. And would you suggest using an oil of some sort because I find that when my fingers and foreskin get dry it kinda hurts after a bit.

Oh and thanks for the paraphimosis words. Seriously was such a huge concern I just imagined retracting and needing to go to the emergency room because I thought about boobs for a sec haha.

(Premier Login jimsplacetofixthings)

Philosophising won't get it done

August 3 2012, 7:37 AM 

Yes it's a cool design, unique in anatomy. It's a shame more people don't appreciate the incredible design of the foreskin and how it operates. To disrespect it by lopping it off newborns is abhorrent.

The truth is that if you follow the advice, these tight rings will get larger in diameter to allow full retraction without anything getting stuck. Yes, do it for the length of time suggested. In the tub is good because the warm water tends to relax the skin. Any oil or lotion which causes no irritation won't hurt.

Put the oil on the smegma well before your bath. The idea is to emulsify it with the oil. Once it softens, warm water can easily remove it. Do not use soap to wash in the area---EVER. NO SOAP EVER.

(Login IHateYouPhimosis)


August 4 2012, 12:15 AM 

Thanks for the feedback.
I'll do what you advise. I am pretty excited about the progress.

I guess right now I feel reserved to the tub because that inner foreskin is sensative as heck lol.
It hurts a bit to roll it back up right now even in the warm water so out of the water is like, hmm not there yet lol.

That's why I haven't retracted past the head while peeing or something yet. It still takes water for lubrication and warmth and patience for it to relax enough to retract even flaccid. But it seemed easier today in the tub then it was yesterday so the progress continues.

Before I had to use the novoglan just to get it to the middle of the head while flaccid. Now I can get it past the head without the novoglan and I noticed I could pull the ring further down the shaft.

Hopefully in a couple weeks I can raise my hands in victory haha.

(Login IHateYouPhimosis)

Progress question.

August 15 2012, 7:25 PM 

So I was thinking today...
I am now at the point where I can retract and get a full errection comfortably...
However the ring does still stay distal to the base, ie: tends to bunch towards the base of the head. I assume that's due to both the frenulum and ring being a bit too tight and i'll continue to stretch it.

My question is really about the natural lubrication of the foreskin.
I had gone through the process of getting myself used to having the foreskin restracted in a dry environment, prior I only did the tub to help decrease sensativity.

I've let the inner foreskin dry out a couple times and then I let the foreskin go forward again.
I really did it to help decrease the hyper-sensativity to air and to test if the foreskin would get moist again.

I've found that it does lubricate a bit but not too much. It seems like it might even get a little stuck as evident by trying to retract a couple hours later in a dry environment.

For instance if I retract and let it dry out and then add olive oil to the inside of the foreskin the foreskin can retract for the day without issue. If I let the foreskin dry out and then try to retract later it seems like it stays dry and is hard to retract. Obviously it retracts fine in water.

So you may ask yourself why does this matter? I'd like to know if when phimosis is eliminated can you expect that the foreskin is naturally lubricated enough that it can retract without the need for saliva/female moisture? Or would one have to wet the inside of the skin a bit first?

I find that I still have issues retracting flaccid while dry and it seems like it's due to the foreskin not being lubricated enough but I know people say they get errectons and retract the foreskin before they insert into the vagina which would assume it was done in a dry environment.

Purpose? To know when the stretching can stop. Say I can retract comfortably while retracted and errect but I haven't gotten to the point where I can do so in a dry environment, then I'd know I need to keep stretching. If external sources of moisture are needed then I'd not worry about ever getting to that point.

Thanks happy.gif

Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

You are in general, correct.

August 16 2012, 5:19 AM 

The reason the tight band falls into the "sulcus" behind the head is partially due to the fr├Žnulum, and simply because that sulcus is generally the narrowest part of the penile shaft.

It does tend to be "sticky" under the foreskin, and this has been mentioned often enough as a source of difficulty in retracting - or replacing - the foreskin. Except where it makes it difficult to grip where necessary to stretch - such as stretching the fr├Žnulum - lubrication with olive oil (which is persistent) or a "personal lubricant" which will eventually dry out, will make things much easier. When stretching, it evens out the stretching force so it is not applied only to the point of closest contact.

I do stress lubrication rather than being concerned to deliberately "desensitise" or dry out the glans. There is no reason for the glans to function without either the protection of the foreskin, or be lubricated.

Of course, if your concept of sexual activity differs, well, that is your business. wink.gif

And - while you are clearly very close to the eventual goal, don't get too focused on "a couple of weeks". happy.gif

(Login IHateYouPhimosis)

Progress update

August 23 2012, 8:25 PM 

So I've noticed by comparison to others with what I'd consider a freely movable foreskin that mine in comparison seems to "flip outwards" when being brought forward after a retraction.

I mentioned it before, but there are what appear to be two bands, the phimotic ring and a ring that is more proximal to the shaft.

Essentially what happens is that when the phimotic ring gets to about mid head, the other ring is at the base of the glans and pulls the phimotic ring down. That part is no problem it's when pulling the skin forward that it will start to roll and bunch due to that ring at the base of the head. I've determined that the lack of what I'd call proper gliding of the foreskin is due to that second band more than the phimotic ring. So I've started to focus on the second band with the stretches as well.

I just thought that I'd mention this because I think I saw someone else mention they had two tight bands. I imagine we have the same issue. I'll keep you all updated if that resolves "normal movement".


Also @ Paul with regards to the porn discussion which is locked.
Your perception of me "learning with new partners" as opposed to one is very off-base to the point that it sort of makes me laugh. Things aren't as black and white which was largely the reason I choose to comment. I'm a very "grey" person if you will.

It's not about some novelty that I must experience at the expense of my partner. It's about discovering someone's body with them and having ideas that are independent of only my or their thought process. And the things that are facilitated with my partner were very consentual lol. I think this whole concept that people who have watched porn are all some sort of nympho serial daters who seek to continually increase the adrenaline rush that comes with novel experiences is funny. It reminds me of the old marijuana ads that claimed people would lose their minds if they smoked it (note I've never smoked weed in my life lol).

Those who explore sexual pleasure and those who explore sexual novelty via different partners are two entirely different things. Also "being bored" does not have to be the motivation to explore sexual pleasure with your partner, it's really about discovering things with your partner that are enjoyable.. to me that's what sexual intimacy is about but of course everyone has their own definition.

Anyway, I know you've both mentioned experience in working with people with addictions. But I'd say it seems that perhaps you've lost sight of the fact that there are plenty of people in the world who can partake in things that would be very detrimental to some, without issue. It reminds me of my aunt who is an ER nurse who seems to think that every chest pain is a heart attack and every other ache is cancer.

As I said before not everyone who eats mcdonalds is obese (ew anyway right), not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic, and not everyone who watches porn is a nympho who doesn't care about women or long term relationships or the type of guy who believes that woman love unlubricated sex with a 20 inch penis that hurts a ton... and it also doesn't mean that if such a person saw a visual stimuli enough times they'll suddenly take it as truth. I mean it's very reasonable to say that there are simply those skeptics like myself who don't really believe anything they see on tv or the internet until they really process it as something that seems logical.

I appreciate your viewpoints for without the black and white there would be no fun being grey.

Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

Minor details really.

August 24 2012, 4:17 AM 

We do observe people who are troubled by the foreskin rolling or folding in odd ways, but this should not really be a concern - once you can retract easily, you simply do so and it will mostly end up behind the "corona" where various degrees of "bunching" are absolutely normal.

Given that the foreskin is at that point easily retractile, I presume that it is equally normal for it to fold up into odd situations and some men will feel the need to stretch it out to "untangle" it. This is after all, a well-understood social phenomenon. happy.gif

The previous discussion is of course locked simply because it rolled over to the next Index page, where casual readers are that little bit less likely to go.

Suffice it to say that it is your prerogative to watch pornography and feel it does not affect you adversely.

You may well be correct, but two things are very clear to us. One is that many people, especially young people have no base reference of good information and quite frankly lack the intellectual skills to sift fact from fantasy. Of course you have actually agreed to this point.

The second is that - as I keep emphasising - the pornography which is readily available and which I have no reason to believe is in this regard inferior to that which attracts a premium, is not at all truthful. Given the nature of pornography, it simply will not be possible for those without a proper reference of veracity, to distinguish, and you cannot expect them to discriminate in the way you or I can, in which case they will suffer as a result of incorporating perverse expectations.

That is the persistent flaw in your argument.

(Login IHateYouPhimosis)

Yeah it is pretty minor.

August 25 2012, 2:47 AM 

Oh yeah I forgot to mention this I noticed. I was attempting the whole dry the inner foreskin out to toughen it up a bit for like 2 days or so lol. It really wasn't effective in doing anything other than making it hard to retract. But for those people who were in my shoes a couple weeks ago with a hyper sensative ... everything haha. I just wanted to mention that I've noticed that manually stretching with the two fingers inserted has served to densensitize it a ton. Not only the foreskin but the tip of glans have both become way less sensative to light touch. So for those out there reading this once you can get the two fingers in you're pretty much at the home stretch.

Today I noted that the second band (not phimotic) is really elastic. It's the reason that the foreskin "Snaps" closed and the reason the foreskin pulls down without me pulling it down at some point of retraction because it gets in the sulcus. I haven't really read much about this band, but it is interesting because now I am realizing that it's what was preventing movement at a certain point. The phimotic ring seems lax enough actually it's this second ring that is really the issue now. Since I've stretched it I've already noticed more mobility.


All young people having sex their first couple times are likely to make mistakes. I guess where we differ is that I don't think they lack the intellectual capacity to learn regardless of if they are truly naive or they learned something improper. It's not that difficult to unlearn something that is improper, many people exhibit this capability on a regular basis.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that based on your comments: you are tying promiscuity with men who hurt women repeatedly during sexual intercourse and then you're tracing that back to the fact that those men watched porn and thus lack the capability to decipher pleasure from pain in women and also keep trying to get a new "high" in a sense by going from woman to woman? That seems possible with some, but to suggest that it applies that it applies in general seems a bit far fetched by my estimation.

Again I was never arguing that porn was truthful, which is why I compared it to a hollywood romantic comedy. What I was arguing is that you can still learn, even from things that are untruthful. One example is rolemodel vs anti-role-model, you can learn just as much from some thing that is consistently wrong by doing the opposite.. For instanceL America is a fat country and America preached that eating carbs as the foundation of your diet coupled with low fat was the key to weight loss, now you know why America is obese and how to lose weight by doing the opposite.

Are there things in porn that are ridiculous? Yeah of course. I do agree that there are people who watch porn and their expectations get them in "trouble" because it is not realistic and perhaps they believed it to be true? Yeah. But it's my belief that the real problem are these peoples' lack of communication and willingness to learn with a partner and that cannot be pinned on porn anymore than repeatedly doing outlandish things and expecting women to fall head over heels for you can be blamed on romantic comedies.

Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

Back to that porn.

August 25 2012, 5:20 AM 

Let me say (on behalf of myself and my wife): In our experience the general competence of young people with regard to sexual matters is pretty poor (and does not necessarily greatly improve with age, though difficulties tend to become less frequent by and large happy.gif).

I continue to find your argument "you can still learn, even from things that are untruthful", frankly absurd. To suggest that people view porn with the mindful attitude "I'm going to look at this, but I know it's all fake, so I am going to make up my mind to do exactly the opposite" - is quite ridiculous.

Porn does not come with subtitles saying "Warning! This is faked, do not expect your partner to behave in this manner". The very fact that it is possible to act what is depicted, yet essential parts of what is acted out are quite deliberately deceptive, such as actions made out to be pleasurable which clearly are not, cannot be anything other than confusing.

I find your propositions overall specious. If someone cannot trust material of this nature, then it simply cannot be beneficial. To say that they will reference it to their own experience when you have suggested that they do not have that experience, begs the question - if they had the sufficient experience with which to compare it, they would not need the porn - which is to say, the do not need it in the first place and are vulnerable to harm from it.

I certainly did suggest previously, that it is all too easy to "hurt" women in the sense of doing something with which they are not comfortable though not necessarily physically painful, to which their reaction will not be to report it but to precipitously lose affection, at which point the relationship - such as it was - fails, but the reason is not immediately apparent to either partner.

If relationships repeatedly fail, but for no apparent reason, and one keeps "trying", then that will appear as "promiscuity". This may seem somewhat trite, but I work on the premise that a sexual (loving) relationship is supposed to be so strong that it will persist ("till death do us part") and that multiple relationships indicate ( n-1) failures of those relationships which are not "random" or "accident" but mean that someone (or perhaps both) got it wrong.

As to weight loss - whatever it might have to do with this discussion - the reason why Americans are obese is quite simply too much food. Albeit combined with too little exercise, but principally just too much food.

It is interesting to note that a poster who has just appeared before I started to write this, vouches that he does have a problem with porn. I wonder how you propose to "straighten him out"?

(Login IHateYouPhimosis)

Re: Back to that porn.

August 28 2012, 2:06 AM 

Ha I agree that sex doesn't necessarily get better with age which is only serving to support my argument. Not being caring to the needs of your sexual partner are not dependent upon anything other then your willingness to learn with your partner, I've been saying that from the start. It is ultimately independent of what you watch or any thought process you might have acquired prior to that point.

From my standpoint: to think that you can only learn from things that are "truthful" is a bit absurd as truth is often subjective to one's experience and many times what people deem true in youth are later realized to be false. To exclude information because you instantly deem it to be false is only going to leave you with scarce information to draw conclusions from and when that occurs you're more prone to make improper conclusions.

For example I find it funny that you deem everything that occurs in porn as "not pleasurable for women" as if your thought process is applied to every person on earth or that you've watched vast amounts of porn to come to such a conclusion. There are various forms of sexual pleasure that I am sure you nor I have ever engaged in and perhaps you see them as perverse or immoral but that doesn't mean the person who finds such experiences pleasurable has less validity in "their truth".

Porn doesn't need disclaimers anymore then hollywood does in order for people to understand it's fiction. I fail to comprehend how you seem to have so little faith in humanities intellectual capacity. If you and I figured out porn is not real then why are the rest of the masses unable to come to the same conclusion?

"If someone cannot trust material of this nature, then it simply cannot be beneficial."

This just takes me back to the whole story telling nature of humans again. I mean it sounds like you don't read fiction much? Do you view fiction as something that serves no benefit for mankind and is unable to teach anything as it's not based in reality? I find that a really odd viewpoint to have. But if you feel that strongly about it then, to who's their own.

"To say that they will reference it to their own experience when you have suggested that they do not have that experience, begs the question - if they had the sufficient experience with which to compare it, they would not need the porn - which is to say, the do not need it in the first place and are vulnerable to harm from it."

This all misconstrued, first off why does one need to assume people are harmed from having information which may or may not be correct? Especially when you consider whether the information is incorrect or correct is subjective to the person you're with and only validated with them. You can just as easily make the argument that they'd see something which they have no experience with that turns out to be enjoyable. Not to mention that your personal experience isn't even applicable to all women either. You could have experiences independent of porn which teach you about what your partner liked which is totally not applicable to your new partner. So in essence not even personal experience is going to be full-proof anyway and it comes back to your experience with the partner you're with... everytime.

For instance: you've never gave oral to a girl before? You watched some porn where oral on a female was done so you figure now that might be enjoyable for a women and you try it. Who was exactly harmed in that scenario? Are you expected to be an ace the first time you do it? No. But would you have even had a baseline to start with had you not seen it? Who knows? Perhaps not? Perhaps your partner didn't know they liked it or would be too shy to bring it up?

Another example: you have had missionary sex with a girl before and that's all you've had. You watch a porn where a girl puts her legs on the shoulders of a man and they have sex. You try it, it's enjoyable for you both. Is porn still fake? Yes. Is there still information that could or good or bad? Yes. You can go on and on with more examples like that where a naive person might not ever attempt to try something as simple as that had they not seen it done.

And if you do something that your partner does not like and you continue to do it. That's an issue with your communication with your partner and once again is totally independent of watching porn. Promiscuity is in the same boat as that existed long before porn and even during the victorian era. I feel both are pretty weak arguments frankly.

And to obesity... It's not as simple as too much food wink.gif the type of food that you consume has a huge effect on satiety. Eat a little bit of bad food that spikes your insulin and you'll end up consuming more or constantly battle hunger. Eat food that has a higher satiety and you'll be less likely to want to eat. I eat all the veggies, fruit, nuts, and meat that I want. But give me some carbs (via grain or simple sugars that I am not cycling) and watch me put on weight quickly.

The most deleterious food are high fat, high salt, high carb food like ice cream and fries and are more likely to trigger addictive eating habits.

And your point about the poster having a problem with porn really has nothing to do with this converation. I said in the first couple posts that there are indeed people who are addicted to porn, gambling, alcohol, sex.. and the list goes on and on and on. Addiction isn't universally applicable to people if it was we'd have a lot more alcoholics then we see, don't you think?

Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

I seem to have a certain difficulty expressing myself in this matter.

August 28 2012, 5:44 AM 

I do have difficulty reconciling your "niche" repository of "educational" pornography with the vast majority which appears on this common websites which I will on principle not enumerate as I have no wish to direct anyone to them - though Google will of course, locate them in milliseconds.

Frankly, my concept of "learning" would be exemplified by - attending school. My understanding of the schooling process is that you are presented with basic, factual information, not deliberate mistruths (at least, we hope not in our countries.)

Yes, at a later stage, literary criticism of works of fiction, including cinematography is taught. Unfortunately, such education for some reason, omits pornography - I wonder why? wink.gif Nevertheless such teaching is necessarily directed and in fact limited to "works of art", not scientific study dealing with physiological function.

So, I do not deem everything in porn as "not pleasurable for women". I merely point out that the overwhelming majority is such. Which is an important point - the important point. There may be occasions where a woman would find penile penetration in a variety of successive positions with minimal bodily contact and only the most cursory "manipulation" of clitoris or breasts, enjoyable. But the simply fact is that such situations would be rare indeed.

And I do have to reject your moral relativism here. Some things are perverse and immoral, specifically when they cause harm to people. The general harm in this case, is the harm misleading information can cause to people, even if only by generating inappropriate expectations that limit their ability to relate to the opposite sex, as well as the direct harm done to people who become involved in the sex and pornography industry.

I will allow that the fact that you do come here and discuss such points actually does indicate that you are more intellectually capable than average. Your faith in the discernment of much of the population and particularly teenagers is truly touching, but grossly optimistic.

The problem is that with pornography, people may misconstrue fantasy, as fiction.

Given your example, I can definitely say that it is not necessary to view pornography in order to comprehend that cunnilingus is firstly possible and secondly, desirable. This fact should in fact, be covered in basic "sex education" (though I do realise it may not be), in a matter of a few sentences. Not only is the very proposition in itself entirely sufficient for a couple to "learn" it in practice, but the parody of it depicted in pornography - in the vast majority of instances - is sufficiently misleading as to make it very undesirable that someone with no prior experience should attempt to copy it in any detail. That really is the case.

Yes, the variety of "positions" cycled in pornographic depictions is fake. It simply builds on the fakery of women finding gymnastic vaginal penetration, enjoyable.

It does concern me that you persist with this defence of the supposed "educational" nature of porn. Can you not accept that (whether or not you choose to classify this as "addiction" or not) the only purpose that porn is produced in the first place, is to "sell" it to you, to provide something that you find exciting and indeed sufficiently exciting that you will return, whether in the next hour, the next day or the next week or month, to consume more (and sooner or later, pay for it)?

{Have to break of this submission at this point - my wife is calling!}

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