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Im Back! Being treated for yeast infection. Possible lichen sclerosus?

September 19 2012 at 8:44 PM
AC  (Login cali_guy)

Little back story: I have been struggling with irritated foreskin for the past 2-3 months. I posted all summer with my concerns over my issue.
Here's my last post from several weeks ago, when this issue was at its worst.

Now I'm back because I just saw a dermatologist, who is treating me for yeast by having me take fluconazole for 1 month. This is the oral medication taken once a week. If in a month the fluconazole does nothing than I will have a skin biopsy to check for lichen sclerosus.
This doctor also told me to stop applying creams.

So, Jim/Paul/Anyone, what exactly can I expect with the treatment of fluconazole? How soon would I see my symptoms go away, if indeed this is a yeast problem?

Also lichen sclerosus (BXO), what are the symptoms for this, besides the skin turning white? (I do not have any white spots on my glans or foreskin)

And a question for Paul regarding Zinc & Castor Oil Cream. I recently found a diaper rash cream that contained both of your favorite ingredients, which I actually used for about a week. It did relieve the redness and minor irritation, but only for a few days. Stuff was thick and I didn't feel comfortable having this stuff on for too long. What do you think of this as an alternative for us in the states?
the product i purchased is Boudreaux's Butt Paste

(Premier Login jimsplacetofixthings)

I think it's just yeast

September 20 2012, 7:45 AM 

Within a few days, your symptoms should disappear. The skin should become supple and have no irritation.

The product you mention should help you with your treatment. Did the doctor say why not to use any creams?

(no login)

Can yeast cause soreness?

September 20 2012, 5:32 PM 

Thanks for the response Jim.
I took the Fluconazole three days ago and if anything my foreskin has gotten worse. There has been no sign of any relief and the foreskin itself feels sore and "hot" again. This is why I questioned other symptoms of Lichen Sclerosus (BXO), because if this isn't yeast, what is it?
Really hoping this treatment works out in the long run however by now I would've expected a better result.

I believe the dermatologist suggested to stop using creams after he saw the list of creams/ointments I had used in the past 3 months. He probably figured I was making things worse, which in this case could be true. The worst feeling I had was when I was using Clotrimazole.

At this point with my foreskin being sore and irritated I would consider applying more of the zinc oxide (baby rash cream) or monistat to go along with the Fluconazole. At this point what do I have to lose? (besides my foreskin....)
Any input on using anti-fungal creams when already taking anti-fungal pills?

(Login cali_guy)

Diagnosed with Intertrigo?.........

September 30 2012, 12:06 AM 

Ok so since I last left off with you guys on this forum I was put on Fluconazole to treat for yeast.
Well a few days into that treatment all I saw was a clean penis but was still dealing with a lot of burning and irritation. Because my symptoms were getting worse I went back to see a different dermatologist. This other doctor saw the redness and prescribed me Vytone (hydrocortisone/iodoquinol) to apply on my irritated foreskin along with ketoconazole cream.
This mixture of both creams seemed to have made things worse because I spent all of last week with the strongest burning sensation yet. I've stopped this treatment of using the creams, as instructed by the doctor, after I called and explained the severe pain I was in. The pain was actually making it uncomfortable to sleep, walk, sit, do anything.

Anyways I found out that this dermatologist diagnosed me with Intertrigo.
Has anyone here ever dealt with this on the foreskin? Or even heard of this being an infection on the foreskin?
It seems like people usually get this under large skin folds, not the foreskin.

I have gone back to applying the diaper rash cream (zinc oxide) I mentioned before because it actually gives me a couple hours of relief.
I just want this to go away. Going on over 3 months now of constant irritation and discomfort. This crap has affected my life and I do not want to get circumcised.

Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

I think you know

September 30 2012, 3:51 PM 

What I will say. happy.gif

Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

Near enough I suppose.

September 21 2012, 2:49 PM 

Yes, you are right. It does contain the Zinc and Castor Oil - as well as about three other things which it seems to me contribute little to its benefit but are probably not harmful.

If the power of "marketing" and "up-selling" ("Will you be having fries with that?") is just so inevitable that you cannot get inexpensive and basic materials, than that will probably do the job.

(Login RexBee)


September 27 2012, 11:09 AM 

IMO the doc that you are seeing is doing a wonderful job in treating you for yeast for a month. Religiously go through it & you'd be only thankful that you did so. This can really pave the path for getting immense results from the techniques mentioned here. A healthy, yeast free foreskin will respond quickly to the process.

proud mother and wife
(Login wifeandmother)

can I say a few things?

October 5 2012, 12:43 AM 

Just based on my experience with horrendous yeast infections, I want to add a little to the discussion, if you guys don't mind.

The most effective thing against yeast is AIR. Sleep naked, on your back. If you wear jeans, STOP. The thick seams can be very irritating. Wear lighter cotton pants. ONLY COTTON. If you are putting an ointment on the yeast, the air cannot get to it. Don't touch it, unless in the shower just to hold it under the water.

I had a yeast infection for A YEAR once. I CRIED walking down the hall at work. I was a teacher, I had to walk my kids in from recess, it was torture. I tried miconozole and that only made it worse. I took the fluconazole pill several times, and it would make it better temporarily. The only way to cure it, when it is that bad, is exposure to air, and rinsing it in the shower at least 2x/day with warm or hot water. Let your body do its work naturally. I didn't wear jeans for years, I had to totally change my wardrobe.

I know that it can be hard to see a bad yeast infection. I know for me, first it makes my body make this discharge, and when it advances then it just gets drier and drier. There comes a point where it doesn't really even itch anymore, just burns.

I also had it in my breasts, weird as I feel telling you that. I was breastfeeding a newborn who got thrush, and newborns want to breastfeed constantly. I felt like I had acid running through my breasts, it was a nightmare. I tried a few things from the doctors like Nystatin but the only thing that helped finally after 3 months was walking around my house naked on top, and stopping wearing a bra, and rinsing with hot water often.

I think diaper cream (Desitin or Balmex are two of the most popular) are good for very minor irritation. I think the ointment part of them protects your skin from moisture while the zinc heals it, but you need air to get rid of the yeast. Clotrimazole is good for an early yeast infection (not sure about on the penis though, I use it on babies' butts) but when you've had it that long, I think honestly you have to stop all the ointments and use AIR. Now I understand it might be hard to get air under your foreskin. But I think it will be okay. I mean, I didn't sleep with my legs spread open either, you know? And you don't want to irritate the tissue by pulling on it.

By the way, I understand this heat we've had lately must make it even worse. I'm hoping it cools off. I've had enough hot weather for the year. I'm guessing by your "Cali Guy" login that you are also in CA.

Also, Jim and Paul... I looked up intertrigo and saw it is generally just inflammation from a yeast infection or other infection, but I also saw that it might be caused by a vitamin B6 deficiency. Any thoughts on that?

Oh, more advice from a woman who has beaten yeast infections: no sugar! I mean, don't stop eating fruit and all that, but don't eat sweets. No alcohol either. And try some probiotics. Eat loads of yoghurt. I don't mean Yoplait, that's chock full of sugar and high-fructose corn syrup. Buy the real yoghurt - Mountain High plain yoghurt. I don't recommend actually putting it on the infection, by the way. Get those probiotics into your system by ingesting them. And no sex until you're completely healed.

I think you need to look beyond creams to your whole body. When you've had a yeast infection for months like this, there's a balance that's off, and until you fix it in a natural way that your body sustain on its own, you will continue to have this problem. Do you understand what I mean? So establish the right bacteria in your system. Let the skin reattain its natural state, no more creams that dry it or block the air out, and no soap. Let it heal itself. I might sound a little crazy to you, but believe me I speak from experience.

Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

Love the contribution.

October 5 2012, 3:27 AM 

We need a bit - a lot - of fresh activity here. happy.gif

Sleeping on your back is not a particularly good idea in itself. It is generally not comfortable, particularly unwise in latter pregnancy (as you would know) and promotes snoring and sleep apnoea (though ...). A principal reason why it is uncomfortable, is that it holds the legs (and arms, as they tend to fall down beside) in full extension putting pressure on the ligaments.

Other than that, sleeping naked is indeed the healthiest, except in particularly cold weather.

The reference to "diaper creams" is interesting. The "products" mentioned are of course, based on Zinc oxide and mineral oil, but "Balmex" in particular lists no less than twenty-two other "inactive" ingredients (other than water). This is in itself fascinating, albeit really just a glitch in the marketing "hype". If these ingredients were truly inactive (and it is clear that they are not), then there would ipso facto, be no reason to include them in the preparation. My feeling is that they are in fact simply unnecessary as their potential benefits, individually and in tandem, would be negligible and more ingredients increase the risk of sensitivity reactions. I continue to advocate simply Zinc and Castor Oil, a formulation perfectly well known to pharmacists, but one which is not particularly susceptible to "value-adding" by branding and consequently not profitable.

Your reference to Candida in the breasts is interesting, it is the case that this is commonly something transferred from the baby to the mother - as indeed are most forms of lactating "mastitis". An interesting consequence is that it is neither necessary nor appropriate to restrict breastfeeding for concern that the baby might "catch" some infection from the mother.

Intertrigo is indeed, commonly a manifestation of Candida infestation and generally treated accordingly. Another indication for the Zinc and Castor Oil.

I have no familiarity with Pyridoxine - Vitamin B6 - in regard to intertrigo - or much else for that matter. It has been suggested to me (personally) that supernormal doses of B2 - riboflavin - may be somewhat useful in reducing the frequency of migraine, but that is a different matter.

OK, I just have to go check the ingredients of this tub of Yoplait ...

proud mother and wife
(Login wifeandmother)

Re: Love the contribution.

October 5 2012, 10:16 AM 

Okay so sleep on your side. happy.gif Same result - exposure to air. I prefer my side actually, and I agree sleeping on the back increases snoring (I cannot tell you the many times I've made my husband turn onto his side in the middle of the night). Just an aside, the chiropractor told my husband to sleep on his back when he had back pain. Of course, his mean wife couldn't tolerate the snoring...

The main reason I mentioned the particular brands of diaper cream was so you had something to look up, and maybe you can start recommending a specific brand. I get the impression that you, Paul, are not in the US. I think I saw you write "nappies" somewhere? I imagine you have different name brands wherever you are. I'll try to remember to keep an eye out for one that is more basic, or ask a pharmacist. It's just like food, I think. Too many additives, we don't even know what we're eating half the time.

By the way, I did continue to breastfeed my son, despite many suggestions to stop, for almost two years. That's another thing I believe in very strongly. Breastfeeding my daughter had been a wonderful experience, so that knowledge and my belief that it was the best thing by far for my baby, motivated me to persevere.

proud mother and wife
(Login wifeandmother)

zinc & castor oil

October 5 2012, 11:36 AM 

I went to the drugstore and looked at diaper creams. The most basic was the Boudreaux's Butt Paste. The extra-strength has 40% zinc, then castor oil, and then the least amount of other ingredients.

Then I talked to the pharmacist. There is nothing that is just those two ingredients. He said that particular pharmacy cannot mix zinc and castor oil for a customer because they don't have the facilities for that, but to google compounding pharmacies in the area. He said a compounding pharmacy can mix specific ingredients - usually it is done with a prescription, but since zinc and castor oil are typically over-the-counter, it shouldn't be a problem.

I found a link that can search for local compounding pharmacies:


Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

The triumph of marketing!

October 6 2012, 12:47 AM 

Mitt R. must be so proud - you simply cannot obtain a product that does not have a brand on it, and something - no matter how trivial or meaningless - to "distinguish" it from the next "product" and justify its inflated price.

A "compounding pharmacist" (I rather thought in American spelling they would be "farmacists" happy.gif) is generally one that prepares specific drug mixtures; Zinc and Castor Oil cream hardly counts as a "drug" as there is no intention that it be absorbed into the body. Of course, what is now the "compounding pharmacist" is what all pharmacists used to be and started out as being; they used to "make up" medications - that is of course, what the "recipe" Rx symbol means, "Take these things" and make up the medication. Nowadays they are in the main, merely "shelf-pickers" (and not always dead accurate at that as we have found).

Yes, it is the case that I do not live in America, and the infestation of "branding" is ever so slightly less for me. You may of course recognise that from my spelling.

I have to allow that "Boudreaux's Butt Paste" (which has been mentioned in previous discussions here) appears to be the closest approximation to the pure article.

I would certainly have expected you to be a breastfeeding proponent (as of course am I happy.gif) - it is quite inappropriate to be concerned about breastfeeding and not about genital integrity, or vice versa. There are presumably a few other associations here, avoidance of episiotomy and so on. My only concern there is the perverse assertion by some people (such as the otherwise laudable "007b" website), that breasts and breastfeeding are not sexual - apparently a misguided sop to somehow "sell" it to the prudes rather than honestly challenging the basis of their prudery that sex is "dirty".

{It follows that the reason that advocacy against circumcision is so important and necessary that we spend our precious time on it, must be based on the concept that the foreskin is essential for full sexual function, which axiom is quite conveniently ignored by those (perverts) who exhibit the - curiously hypocritical - attitude that sexual function itself is of no importance or value whatsoever. Yes, I think that doctors - or anyone else - who perform and advocate circumcision are indeed in the majority, perverts; and doctors in particular are by so doing, blatantly repudiating their "scientific" and ethical(?) training.}

proud mother and wife
(Login wifeandmother)

Re: The triumph of marketing!

October 6 2012, 6:44 PM 

We like to keep some "ph" words just to confuse people and make it interesting. My mom spells "fantastic" as "phantastic." I think it must be spelled with the "ph" in German. Yes I do recognize differences in your spelling. wink.gif I realized when I was younger that I was spelling some words differently because I had read so much British literature. I was so mixed up about "license," for example. Oh and then in college I had a British professor of English that was all up-in-arms about where to put punctuation next to quotations. Honestly the British way made more sense, but I have adopted the American way because that is where I live.

There are some "store brands" or "generic" brands, but they are the same ingredients as the most popular brands, just a little cheaper.

Episiotomies... I had one both times so honestly I know no different. The first one I never even noticed (I'm referring to healing), the second bothered me a tiny bit likely because I was older or possibly because the scar tissue from the first one made healing more difficult, but it was negligible. I understood to do it to avoid tearing. I do think that there's so much pain down there anyway, that the cut is barely noticed. It's more the needle to numb it that you feel, but when you're having that "ring of fire" feeling, it's good to know it's going to be relieved quickly. I saw my sister give birth and watched the baby's head go out, in, out, in, and my sister being in pain and wondering, "why doesn't he just grab the scissors?!" Eventually the doctor did. Maybe now that I'm older I would do it different, and opt to try harder to do without, but it really was never discussed. Being cut really didn't bother me, I just wanted to avoid ripping.

What bothered me much more about giving birth is how they take the baby from you so quickly. (This discussion is so off-subject, I wonder what the guy who started this thinks if he reads it! But it's good for anyone to read, really. So here I go!) Both times I told them to put the baby immediately on my chest to start nursing, and with my daughter it worked out that way. But with my son they were concerned about his blood sugar because he was 9 pounds (which really I think was fine, he came out easily and I'm tall and he was not a chubby baby, I don't see why just because he's 9 pounds it's a big deal). So there was a point when they took him to draw blood. The way they did it was to milk his foot to fill a vial. This makes me so angry, the memory. I didn't see it, but I believe it was my sister who watched them do it through the glass. I should have protected him from this also. Then that blood coagulated on the way to the lab so they wanted to do it again, and my husband went with him and finally stopped them when he couldn't stand it any longer that they kept poking his little foot and couldn't find a vein. His blood sugar level was a little low and they wanted to give him sugar water in a bottle, but I refused. I nursed him instead and he was fine. They also took him for hearing tests, and whatever else. I don't see why that's so important right away. If I were to do it over again, I would insist that they do all that in the room where I was. I would be a much more difficult patient. But every time they brought him back to me, I stripped off all his clothes (except the diaper, though I was tempted) and put him under my gown against my skin. Actually I just pulled the gown down. I had no shame. They also have this hospital policy of putting so many bands on babies' ankles for security reasons, and I made them take some off because they seemed so uncomfortable.

Hm, regarding breastfeeding as sexual... I'm not sure what you mean. As a mother that breastfed I can tell you that during the time I was breastfeeding, my breasts were off-limit to my husband because at that time in my life they were used for nourishing and bonding with my babies. I just could not make that transition between that and having them used sexually. My sister had the same experience. However, now that breastfeeding is behind me, they are used again in a sexual sense. I was definitely one of those moms who breastfed in public or in other people's living rooms. I never left for other people's comfort. If they don't like it, let them leave. I felt like the bottom of my shirt and my baby's head covered me enough. I am also aware of the "prudery." I have no problem with telling my 9 year old daughter what sex is (but I have warned her to let her friends find out from their own parents), or telling my 5 year old son who walks into the bathroom why he sees blood - because mommy has her period and that just means that I can have a baby. I think a good understanding of sex takes enough years to figure out, so why set the kids up with issues about hiding it?

Regarding sexual function of the foreskin & doctors cutting it off: I would like to ask, what happened to "first do no harm?" because I have to agree that the foreskin is definitely essential. I am very grateful that my husband was born in Scotland so that I could experience it.

And now I have to go eat dinner. happy.gif

My husband and daughter have been asking me why I am writing about all this, and my answer is "so people will read it."

Paul B.
(no login)

The spelling of "phantastic"

October 8 2012, 4:08 AM 

is not particularly surprising as that word presumably relates to "Phantasm".

As regards "Generic" brands, this term generally relates to specific pharmaceuticals consisting of a particular active ingredient and a small number of excipients - perhaps as many as three. Excipients are used to bind a tablet together or dilute a liquid to reduce a taste or an otherwise corrosive concentration; sweeteners or flavours to mask bitter tastes (as many drugs have), coatings to mask taste or protect from stomach acidity and shells to prolong release (nowadays commonly a lacquer - shellac - or plastic shell is used with a laser-drilled perforation to control release).

In general, the active ingredient remains identical but the excipients vary from brand to brand, sometimes causing substantial variations in the activity of that principal ingredient.

What I am commenting on, is the range of preparations offered not by specific active ingredient, but by purpose which I would not refer to as "generic". You can use many different things for "nappy rash" ("Diaper Rash" if it suits you), almost all involve a waterproofing oil which can be mineral (petroleum), vegetable (Castor oil) or silicone (the most persistent "barrier creams"); while Zinc oxide is a common drying and antiseptic agent (primarily by its desiccating and surface coating effects). More specific antiseptics or emollients might be included but as I say, whether they are really any more efficacious than the essentially cheap Zinc and Castor Oil is quite dubious.

Recent studies confirm that episiotomies are rarely advantageous, either in reducing the extent of tearing or subsequent discomfort or even in hastening delivery (while a skilled accoucheur and perineal manipulation does wonders). I personally advocate - and would you believe it? - active stretching of the perineum during latter pregnancy to prepare it for delivery (in addition to seriously executed Pelvic Floor Exercises). Of course, as with the foreskin stretching we explain here, unfortunately few people are prepared and motivated to actually perform this form of "active" preparation. It requires after all, planning and persistence and there is a time frame strictly defined in the case of a pregnancy, and somewhat limited by patience - a constrained commodity - in the case of foreskin stretching,

Noted your concerns about faulty "rote" management substituting for careful clinical assessment. That goes with the episiotomies. Let's face it, these people simply love doing stuff, they "get off" on it. A normal delivery is simply too boring; they do not feel "needed" (and of course, much of the time they are not!). This is a well documented phenomenon.

Hey look, there clearly is more to life than foreskins, and whenever some fellow comes here proposing (not infrequently) that his foreskin is the cause of his failure to undertake relationships with the opposite sex, I make no bones(!) about setting him straight right away.

Apart from such obvious blunders, it's not my place to tell people how to run their lives. I am sure the exclusion you describe between sex and breastfeeding is common enough and I dare say it apparently didn't prevent you from "repeating the performance" so we have to concede that if your husband was happy enough with your approach, more power to him, though the John Cleese commentary on this does come vividly to mind. happy.gif

Amplifying the last paragraph of my previous posting (and the other thread), I consider all these discussions germane even where they appear to be "off topic" because they relate to the necessity on the one hand of an adequate comprehension of sexuality and sexual function to understand why the foreskin is important and on the other, the ability to critically evaluate "information" by reference to its consistency (including consistency with what can be directly observed) and the motivations of those proffering such information.

And this is not the only situation - far from it - where such skills are vital. The reason why I write about all this - and you do also - is that there is such a blatant need for people (both sexes) to be educated.

proud mom and wife
(Login wifeandmother)

2 questions

October 8 2012, 12:49 PM 

Okay I really had to laugh at the John Cleese reference. I showed my husband and asked his opinion, whether he felt left out at the time and he said no, it was fine. Don't misunderstand, we still had sex during this time, in fact once I inadvertantly squirted him in the face with breastmilk - I don't quite understand how that happened!

I'm curious about your opinion about two things.

The first, what is your view on vasectomies? My husband got one when our son was just a few months old, and I have to admit, that was one of the best things to happen to our sex life ever. So I'm in favor of them in the right circumstances, but I wonder if you have an opinion. Well of course you do, but I wonder if it's the same as mine.

The other is this: before I had our daughter (she's the oldest), I really struggled with yeast infections. Then in the four years between having her and my son, I did not have one, ever. Then after I had my son, I started getting them often again. By then I knew better how to deal with them, and I also know exactly what will give them to me; but I wonder, do you think my body chemistry just changed twice because of the pregnancies?

Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

But »I« do understand.

October 8 2012, 3:09 PM 

That was indeed, my point, what I have been explaining all along. The reason you would have squirted your husband in the face with breastmilk, is that you were actually enjoying sex; the "let-down" reflex due to oxytocin is an essential part of having sex, including orgasm and why you would expect to enjoy being suckled as part of intercourse. What would more alarm me would be that this only happened on one occasion.

My view on vasectomies? Well, there are two parts to that. If the question is "Are they safe", then my answer is "as safe as any other surgical procedure". It is commonly claimed that they are preferable to women having tubal ligations as the (overall) procedure is simpler and there are fewer life-threatening complications. I specify the latter because my experience is that they are substantially more likely to cause persistent discomfort, especially if a post-operative infection (epididymo-orchitis) occurs as happened to a good friend of ours after I referred him for one.

If the question is "Are they reliable" then yes, they certainly are, reliable and permanent, essentially irreversible in fact. Or at least, that was the original teaching as I recall of Earl Owen in regard to procedures beyond five years. Of course he waxes eloquent on that website - as well he may and I have no doubt that he is the leading world expert in micro-surgical reversal and has far better figures than most. What he does not stress there, is that he only operates on cases which he assesses as having a reasonable chance of success. And need I mention that it is expensive?

Accordingly, I point out that it should not be considered if there is any chance whatsoever, that a man might consider the possibility of desiring more children. Your description is that your marriage has weathered the more common problem areas well, so good for you, but people are often overly optimistic and things sometimes become "too difficult". The possibility of actually losing children as well as a spouse may (or may not, depending on the mode of loss) be remote, but real.

I cannot offhand offer an obvious physiological reason for varying susceptibility to Candida. My personal experience is that it comes and (hopefully) goes over time and is certainly a ubiquitous nuisance.

proud mom and wife
(Login wifeandmother)

Re: But »I« do understand.

October 8 2012, 8:23 PM 

I was reading a little about oxytocin. That must be the same hormone I read about when I was having problems nursing my son. What I read is that breastfeeding releases this hormone, which combats post-partum depression. That is one of the many reasons (albeit a smaller one) that I continued to breastfeed for so long, and was so adamant about continuing to do it even though I had that yeast infection. I also wonder why, then, it didn't happen more often. Maybe it wasn't as noticable? I don't know. Okay here's an idea... if sex and breastfeeding both release oxytocin, and they say that when you breastfeed it makes your uterus contract after labor (due to the oxytocin?), then is that why they say sex can help induce labor? If that's why, then just "shoving it in" isn't enough, the pregnant woman have to really be enjoying it, I would guess. Is that right, or am I making up science?

I wrote that last message in a hurry, sorry the vasectomy question was so vague. Mostly I was just wondering if there was anything you might bring up that we're "not told" about vasectomies, just like circumcision. For example, are there any possible lasting negative effects. So far we have not experienced any, so I assume it's fine. As for the commitment in our marriage, we have been together 20 years now and we have been through the standard problems plus some of the "too difficult" parts, and all these have just made us stronger. And it's safe to say that each of us are done having children. So I am happy to be reassured that vasectomy is reliable - I have heard of the tubes growing back together, but I didn't know what to think of that.

proud mom and wife
(Login wifeandmother)

another question

October 8 2012, 8:40 PM 

Do you think taking Celexa might have something to do with yeast infections? I can't remember what led me to think that... oh because I read that hormone changes might cause yeast infections, I think. But Celexa is not a hormone - is it made to resemble one? I hardly know what I'm talking about on this one, but I expect you have some enlightening thoughts. I take citalopram - half of a 10 mg pill each day. I have for about 4 years now. Sometimes I forget to take it, and sometimes I forget for a few days.

Paul B.
(Login Paul_B.)

Universal hormone.

October 9 2012, 5:54 AM 

Yes, oxytocin causes rhythmic contraction of smooth muscle, primarily the acinar smooth muscle of the breast lobules and of course, the uterus (but probably many other smooth muscle structures as well). Breast (nipple) stimulation as well as the expectation of such stimulation causes the "let down" of milk from the peripheral lobules to the collecting ampullae under the areola, from where it can be squeezed out (rather than strictly, "sucked") by taking the whole areola into the mouth (called "latching"). If the breast is relatively full, a strong let-down will actually eject milk in a spray without even touching the breast (which is of course, the mythological derivation of the astronomical "milky way").

It is indeed the same hormone which also stimulates rhythmic contractions of the uterus, which only progress into labour if the uterus is "sensitised" by prostaglandins from the placenta. Synthetic oxytocin is used (intravenously) to augment the contractions of labour and by nasal inhalation, is available to artificially assist "let-down" for breastfeeding.

Conversely, after birth, the release of oxytocin during suckling causes further uterine contractions (which is a highly desirable effect helping to "wring out" the uterus as observed by transiently increased flow of lochia). It is generally held that the uterus "involutes" or shrinks back toward its "normal" non-pregnant size more rapidly and effectively (progressively over some weeks) where the baby is breast fed.

Intercourse is somewhat more complex. Oxytocin release is caused by pretty much any effective sexual stimulation, whether breast suckling or clitoral and not surprisingly, peaks at orgasm. This certainly will causes a "let-down" and mostly if the breast or breasts are full (and not already concealed in someone's mouth), spraying, and of course, uterine contractions may be (strongly) felt.

Prior to birth, this may also result in contractions, but depending on whether the uterus has yet been "sensitised" by prostaglandins. The crude way to activate the prostaglandins has traditionally been to rupture the amniotic membrane, but since this increases the risk of intra-partum infection, has now mostly been (or should have been) replaced by a prostaglandin pessary (Cervagem®) placed to the top of the vagina against the cervix.

The limitation of intercourse - or suckling - as a means to induce or accelerate labour is that it will have no more (and indeed, less) effect than an oxytocin infusion unless the uterus has been so sensitised. Except perhaps for one thing - prostaglandins are so named because they were first discovered in semen - from of course, the Prostate Gland (= "ProstaGlandin"). So either intercourse with full ejaculation into the deep vagina, or perhaps just suckling and clitoral stroking to orgasm are certainly "worth a try" if the desire is to provoke or accelerate labour.

Vasectomies: Various concerns have been raised at times - one often wonders just why? - regarding possible adverse effects as testicular cancer, prostate cancer, hypertension and a few others that I cannot recall just now. None have been genuinely supported by evidence (any more than that pest who claims evidence that intact men are at greater risk of prostate cancer).

Which reminds me of the Laumann Study which found that circumcised men were more inclined to "elaborate" sexual practices including masturbation, oral and anal sex. This has been interpreted as some sort of "advantage" to circumcision, rather than what the study did not apparently assess, that this was arguably due to their spouses simply being less enthusiastic about vaginal penetration. wink.gif

Having just reviewed the Prescribing Information for Cipramil® (Celexa®; citalopram), I note that side effects significantly in excess of placebo (and thus presumably genuine side effects) include (in rank order) dry mouth, nausea, excess sweating and ejaculatory dysfunction. Tremor, sleepiness and diarrhoea are also noted, but I mention those four as they do indicate effects on glandular function which just might be relevant to the vaginal ecosystem, though it is not specifically mentioned (but a lot of other inconsequential things are).

mother and wife
(Login wifeandmother)

Re: Universal hormone.

October 10 2012, 12:08 AM 

So synthetic oxytocin is Pitocin (I looked it up) - that's what I had with both deliveries. But I have never heard of inhaling it to assist in let-down, when is that used? Just when a woman is having trouble with let-down? If they do that here, I'm really surprised I that haven't heard of it.

I also thought it is interesting that prostaglandins is secreted by the placenta and also the prostate gland. Then I read on Wikipedia that it is actually found in "most tissues and organs." I loved the lesson on oxytocin and prostaglandins - it's like taking a class. So that's why I had my membranes ruptured before they gave me Pitocin. Now that I tell you all this, I really had a lot done during that time. I thought I was so exceptional, avoiding the epidural. I did get Stadol the first time, which I absolutely hated. I don't think it really numbed the pain, just made my brain fuzzy. Not good.

I was reading that Laumann Study. Oh my goodness gracious. I did a lot of eyebrow-raising while I read. Maybe men who are circumcised like or need "elaborate sexual practices" because they don't have all the feeling that an intact man has? And I have to agree (with you, not the study) that sex is better for the woman when the man is intact. It just works better. Things get lubricated like they should, glide better, etc. And greater ejaculatory control? Meaning it takes longer for a guy who's had a bunch of nerve endings cut off? That's not really control - that's just taking too long. This reminds me of a comment my aunt made when I was asking her about circumcision. She said if my son needs it then he'll be a better lover. That really confused me. Anyway, I didn't finish reading the study. It's late and my eyes are way too tired, plus I have a cold and I really need to get some sleep. I'll get back to it tomorrow.

Citalopram... I never had any of those side effects except once when I tried to stop taking it. I had a seriously dry mouth and my eye would not stop twitching - tremor, maybe? My doctor told me to take magnesium for that. I was wondering if the sometimes forgetting to take the pills for a while could lead to susceptibility to a yeast infection. So maybe, if I get the dry mouth effect. Thanks for checking that out. happy.gif

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