Today's musings...

www.mp3.com/zrak

First album freely downloadable for a limited time.

Second album coming soon...

but what I started to think about & wonder last night was how strong, how viable (if that's the word I want) is Gothism (if that's a word) as a
*sub-culture*?
looking from the outside, I would say it seems to be largely based first on fashion. is that fair to say? tied to music that is associated with it or with which it associates itself. and a fashion or taste for perhaps certain literary styles or genres.
they seem like very ephemeral, changable values. are sub-cultures short-lived by definition? will we be seeing 65-year-old Goths someday in the future?
I realize I'm all over the board with these questions (musings of my own). I never claimed to be logical or well-organized in my thoughts.

good dreamings, Sphinxmoth

I personally think it is a dying subculture... where the number of people going to goth clubs dwindling and the current subculture is based on the reincarnated gothishness of the 80's. there will be those that resist it but I dont think goths are long for this world..

I wouldn't say it's "dying," really, just getting back to what it used to be - ie: more of an underground scene. I see it more as being in a state of eveolution, with uch of the pretention that used to be associated with its members being swept away in favour of a more lighthearted approach. There are still the hardcore, "gother-than-thou" types out there, sure, but not to the extent that it is seen as a scene coposed of nothing more than pompous asses. It became more visible a few years ago due to the popularity of the movie "Interview with the Vampire" and the RPG "Vampire: The Masquerade." With the vogue-ness of both of those things calming down in recent years, the Goth scene has gone back to what it was - a smaller scale scene populated by those who have a genuine appreciation for the music, fashion, art, etc. that is associated with it. In short, the wannabes have move on to the next craze, leaving the scene more or less "pure" once again. At least that's my take on the drop in visibility of the scene...

Tell me what the difference between dying and what you said... ou dont think there are still hardcore people still about of dead scenes?? I would go into more detail..but I'm hungover and I need some water

Wll, it basically started as an underground scene that was more or less an offshoot of punk. They say punk is dead, yet it continualy re-surfaces from time to time. Then Goth became mega-popular around '94-'95 due to the popularity of Interview with the Vampire, Vampire: The Masquerade, and gained a lot of press due to the backlash from Antichrist Superstar. All the stink around those things has died down by now, nd lot of the wannabes who flooded the scene solely to be "cool" have oved on to other things. Thus, the only remainders in the scene are those who are really serious about it. ie: Those who were there to begin with, before all the publicity. There's definately hardcore hangers-on who cling to dead scenes, but if that's the case then they weren't really in it for the "scene," were they. They chose it as a lifestyle choice, rather than a passing fancy. For some Goth is a phase. For others it's a lifestyle. For others it's simply style of dress or a type of music they like. For some it's about worshipping death. It's subjective, it's moving back underground, but I don't think it'll ever truly die. Like all scenes it ay evolve, but there will always be those who keep the torches lit. Just because it's moving out of the public eye doesn't mean it's fading away....just that the "mainstream" appeal it may hve enjoyed for a few years has waned. But it wasn't mainstream appeal that brought the scene to life in the first place, so I don't see this as a problem.

I believe goth died ages ago, and we are the hardcore ones who take it as a lifestyle and try to stay in the scene.

It's a testament to the power of our emotions that there are enough hardcore members to create the illusion that there still is a scene there. As long as people are born with individualism and romance in their eyes, goth, and goth music, will go on, through us hardcore members.

That's why I believe that:
-If it's a scene, the volume of 'hardcore'
members ensure it will never die.
-If it is not a scene, but a way of life (my
belief) then due to the need in
society, it will never die.

on and forever...

Isn't someone who is truly individualistic without a scene at all???

nt, really

that a violation of their scenes? or are people as accepting as they claim?

is being caught wanting to be liked.
you can only take people at their word
(the first time, anyhow)
hopefully your instinct for self-preservation
is in something of working order to
start.
it's not easy being a non-conformist
even in a non-conformist scene.
the danger is standing out as a visual blight
in a chosen design.
my desire to be unconventional contradicts with
my self-consciousness--
perhaps not an uncommon affliction.
and so on....

Sphinxmoth (dark green tonight)

I dont need to stigmatize myself to be nonconformist... once I open my mouth... pretty much people realize I'm not gonna fit in... I think.. which is a good thing... I'm a stranger regardless where I am.. but thats kinda contradictory as well... cuz I can fit in everywhere too.... and still be true to myself... and my personality... if that makes sense??

you're obviously a well-adjusted individual,
intelligent and reasonably willing to get along
with others. (sounds unsettlingly like the assessment of a first-grade teacher of the social skills of a young child) sorry for that.
being flexible, being willing to compromise, being adaptable and possessing an intellect with breadth, and a nature inclined toward compassion
are not characteristics which are
the antithesis of being nonconformist but are some of its hallmarks.
should I have to append this remark with the universal cyber-code for weaseling out in case someone takes exception to my statements?
IMHO

Well the only person here that knows me.. is Sean... and he wouldn't disagree with what ye said.. he better not!!!! Its funny how you said reasonably willing to get along with others... cuz... aren't half my responses essentially?? YOUR wrong... I disagree!!! Nyah Nyah Nyah!!

you went nyah, nyah, nyah to me once....huh.
must have been the sweet way you said it...
but you really can only get along reasonably with
other reasonable people. there's never any point
arguing with fanatics or solipsists.......

by those freako Scientology people.... I didn't hate them as much as I do now... but the guy asked me... if there was anything I really disliked .. and I said ya, fundamentalists... hehehe and they gave me a disapproving stare..

but after reading how this one girl was killed by them... through one of their freakish tests I assume.. I read some of the autopsy report it grossed me out.. she died through excessive sodium.. and dehydration.. I couldn't read much more cuz I was sickened...

another thing they are constantly sending me mail... harassing the hell out of me... grrr... they are my nemesis