Anonymous (no login) from IP address 130.102.128.60
Poll
Question: should sunfish issue an apology and a retraction?
yes 3 (27.2%)
no 8 (72.7%)
Total votes: 11
« Created by: jockey on: 1:21pm Today »
Author Topic: Sunfish takes us for fools (Read 111 times)
jockeyAusfish Silver Member Born to Fish - Forced to Work Posts: 333 Sunfish takes us for fools « on: 1:21pm Today » Quote
http://www.sunfishqueensland.org/where_are_the_reef_studies.htm Sunfish claims that low catch rates on the GBR indicate no threat of overfishing. In reality the catch rate is low because the reef cannot support high catch rates. Trying to catch as many fish there as you do overseas would cause fish stocks to collapse. They have refused to answer questions about the issue, even on their own forum. Even after the error was pointed out to them they didn't do anything (they obviously would have already known it was wrong). Please join me in condemning sunfish for publishing this dangerously misleading propaganda. more info at: www.freediver.bravehost.com
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SeaHuntAusfish Silver Member I'm telling ya , it was this big. Gender: Posts: 339 Re: Sunfish takes us for fools « Reply #1 on: 1:55pm Today » Quote
They are entitled to their opinion as are you and I. And no matter what opinions you have I am sure if you look hard enough you can find some "scientific" evidence to back it up.
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KerryAusfish Platinum Member Never get lost? Everybody tells me where to go! Gender: Posts: 1113 Re: Sunfish takes us for fools « Reply #2 on: 2:16pm Today » Quote
Oh and pray tell WHO pointed this "alleged" issue and if anybody has refused to answer any of your questions then that would be completely understandable and justifiable. This has all the hallmarks of freediver credibility and quite frankly what an absolute hyprocrite in talking about "dangerously misleading propaganda", that's an absolute joke. Cheers, Kerry.
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MTpocketsAusfish Silver Member "Don't drink and park, accidents cause people" Gender: Posts: 326 Re: Sunfish takes us for fools « Reply #3 on: 2:29pm Today » Quote
Credibility ?? Good word that hey Kerry..... Isnt that something that is earned from respect, and proven actions and faith from peers? I think some people would get more respect from fishermen if they were to stop rubbing this crap in their faces every time they read a new report. Seems just cos it sounds good dosn't make it credible. In fact the more you push this type of thing on this forum, the less I want to read it jock. Don't expect a vote from me mate, It's a waste of time. cheers Les
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jockeyAusfish Silver Member Born to Fish - Forced to Work Posts: 333 Re: Sunfish takes us for fools « Reply #4 on: 2:48pm Today » Quote
This is not a reasonable opinion to hold. Ask any marine biologist and they will say that the GBR is simply too low in nutrients to support a catch rate anywhere near that of overseas reefs. In fact, try asking Dr Starck about it. Dr Starck's and Sunfish's silence on the issue only shows that they must know it is misleading but want to publish it anyway.
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nqcairnsAusfish Gold Member no time to do it right? always time to do it over! Gender: Posts: 649 Re: Sunfish takes us for fools « Reply #5 on: 2:49pm Today » Quote
Jockey did you take the wrong colour pills this morning I thought you were just miss-informed but I now think you must be a a bright green affiliated troll ie BOTH. No vote from me either. It's just really silly.nq
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KerryAusfish Platinum Member Never get lost? Everybody tells me where to go! Gender: Posts: 1113 Re: Sunfish takes us for fools « Reply #6 on: 3:50pm Today » Quote
Les, freediver has absolutely no credibility what so ever and has proved this so many times over that really he has made his own noose and continues to prattle on with arguments simply for the sake of it. Nothing substantial or relevant in anything he (or his final mouth piece) has to say. Then has the stupidity to come out with a comment like the GBR is simply too low in nutrients when it's supposedly the nutrients that's killing the coral. Like do some people actually know their left hand from their right But to top it all off somebody like jockey along with all its arogrance and crap actually expects people who do have some background to actually give them a personal audience, now that's a joke. Talk about miss-informed Cheers, Kerry.
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MTpocketsAusfish Silver Member "Don't drink and park, accidents cause people" Gender: Posts: 326 Re: Sunfish takes us for fools « Reply #7 on: 4:00pm Today » Quote
Yeah, and hey I am pretty concerned about all the scare mongering that these blokes are spreading. It seems since the internet has reached more people over the last 5 years or so, everybody now has an opinion. Thats fine having an opinion but to get it rammed down our necks each time we pop into a forum is an absolute joke and I am getting sick of it. I have been reading this stuff quietly for weeks now and had enuff. If the subjects are only brought up in this forum to get a reaction, then thats sad, cos its just like me sticking a knife into a toaster and yelling out help. Maybe one person may hear me, maybe not..... just sheetstirrers !! cheers Les
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KerryAusfish Platinum Member Never get lost? Everybody tells me where to go! Gender: Posts: 1113 Re: Sunfish takes us for fools « Reply #8 on: 4:06pm Today » Quote
Les, most would have to agree that enough is enough and most sites had enough of his crap long ago. Cheers, Kerry.
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MTpocketsAusfish Silver Member "Don't drink and park, accidents cause people" Gender: Posts: 326 Re: Sunfish takes us for fools « Reply #9 on: 4:18pm Today » Quote
yep, I....... like everyone else...... like to hear other opinions, and sharing opinions is great, specially over the forums. But to pull a paper from some expert and promoting it is what gets me going. My opinion about over fishing areas is "I am concerned" and think that making sure the bag limmits and min sizes are regularly enforced and people educated better. And ongoing reviews of present laws. I even think fishing licences are probably a viable way to raise revenue to pay for the education and policing of these laws. They are my opinions and I dont think they would upset anyone, in fact probably most fishermen would agree with me. I wouldn't think I was forcing my opinion on anyone at least. But to refer to this other stuff, just seems like to get credibility, you need to scare monger. Not my way cheers Les
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This message has been edited by JoFisho from IP address 130.102.2.60 on Jul 14, 2004 10:52 AM This message has been edited by JoFisho from IP address 130.102.128.60 on Jul 14, 2004 10:42 AM
well mr owner your innocence is **** and ignorance will be no excuse. copyright breaches of which this is a very clear and concise example of is considered extremely poor ethics on any forum site be it a **** site like this or not. so in your best interests I believe that unless your stupidity matches your arogrance you obviously know what you have to do. your call and that reminds me I've got a little call to make as well, bye
delete it? so it was copied then but then it's really not hard to see where it was in fact copied from is it? and obviously why it was deleted as you know something if it wasn't copied (and only a dickwit would deny that) then impersonating other people now that is the lowest of lows, the pits of the earth but of course this is the pits of the earth, isn't it? and even being called the pits of the earth is better than no activity at all. what's this make the first non freediver reply in 6 months but hey you just keep watching this space until I return, don't you go anywhere now, you here, you have a nice retirement now
Aren't they the same people who were asking us to donate money for a fighting fund to sue the government? Last I heard it was a go-ahead. What happened?
Rumour has it that the fishing party is going to start siphoning off funds from people's membership to sunfish for this even though they don't even have a case yet, and after they promised us they would have nothing to do with sunfish.
So if you have any complaint against the government rather than approaching them about it complain about it on the internet and make it as confusing as possible. Then take it to sunfish who will fund a futile legal battle to waste people's donations on. Remember they can't just make up something to sue the government over, they need your help. Perhaps you could trip over one of the fences they are putting around the reefs?
Does anyone know who sunfish are? Maybe it is Kevin Collins himself? Or maybe Kerry. Kerry was the one posting links to that BS all the time. Maybe its all just a joke to see how gullible fishermen really are.
I was going to post this on the soapbox but I read the responses I've got so far and I thought I'd be better of putting it here instead. Would this get deleted?
How can those sunfish people face themselves in the mirror in the morning? They have described Walter Starck as a world renowned scientist. That's a pretty big accomplishment for someone who has contributed NOTHING to science. In fact it is people like Walter that give the real scientists a bad name, twisting the facts for whatever outcome he wants. No real scientist would compare catch rates at two completely different places and reach the absurd conclusion that Walter Starck did. You'll notice that he doesn't tell you where he got the numbers from. This is not just because Walter doesn't even know how to pretend to be a scientist, its because he either made those figures up or the very publications he got them from would show just how ignorant he is of what is really happening.
A 'productive' ecosystem needs three basic things. Water, energy (usually sunlight) and nutrients. On land water is usually the limiting factor which is why rainfall is the best predictor of how productive or green the land is. In the ocean it's nutrients that are limiting. If there are any experienced fishermen here they would be able to back me up that the big fisheries around the world are characterised by cold, nutrient rich upwellings. Its also why you get the saying 'drought on land, drought in the sea.' Fish don't need fresh water and they don't have to be flushed out, but the stuff they eat need the nutrients that get washed down. Of course I wouldn't expect you to take my word for it as I am no straight talking world renowned scientist like Walter is, but is it too much to ask that you find out the truth for yourselves rather than believing what you want to hear?
Holymac I understand your anger given the circumstances. I must admit that even I get a bit hot under the collar over the issue. But who should you be directing your anger towards, the people who lied to you or the people they lied about?
Gazza, congratulations and thank you for answering the question. While your answer is implicit in what others are saying, no-one else, not even Walter himself, has come out and actually said it (I bet you can't get Walter to either). I know you are expecting another question in response and I want you to know that I don't expect you to answer it and I don't think anyone would think any less of you if you didn't as you have already stuck your neck out far further than the others did. Why do you think that those numbers mean we can just up the total catch rates? Do you have some facts that no-one else does or are you just going by your personal experience? You could even skip ahead a few questions and provide the sources that Walter Starck has been hiding from the public. Not that you are under any obligation to make up for Walter's shortcomings, but you could put this whole thing to rest right now if you did and I know you’d like to do that.
And the rest of you, if sunfish is all about hidden agendas, wild accusations and backroom deals then you are a good ad for them. But suppose (just for the sake of argument) that that's not what they are about. If it isn't then do you really think what you're posting here is helping their image?
Just checked out that sportsfish thread. I swear those guys get dumber every year. When will these halfwits realise that the crap they carry on with does us more harm than good?
just leave it here for a while before posting it give them a chance to get used to it so they don't have a collective heart attack when it goes up on their beloved sportsfish
OMG! jockey has actually posted this on the soapbox. Dingo the meathead has started throwing his vast weight around. I see what you mean now about the 'own worst enemy' idea. It's like a competition to see who can do the most damage to the image of recreational fishermen. If Dingo's so sure that jockey is FD why doesn't he just ban him instead of going on another one of his power trips? I guess that's what you have to do to win back all that respect hey...
No impersonating, threats, swearing/abuse, posting personal information or pasting from other web sites -> put in a link instead. Anonymous posting is recommended. bill_kotan@fastmail.com.au