I have noticed that the Turks are making ridiculous claims upon history with the support of search engines instead of resspecting the historical record. As a courtesy I would like all Greeks to stop replying in the "Greece vs Italy( A Must See! )" thread on this issue and to not help me at all in dealing with their claims if they care to respond to any kind of sources I can present to them. I have already read and amassed enough sources on this issue that do not exist on the internet(they exist only in book form) and I need no help for no other Greek on this issue, especially Greeks using Google who have not read a single study on the Greek American community or its efforts of aid to beleagured Greece during WWII. Besides for reasons of effect it is better if one Greek with actual knowledge can debunk a half dozen Turks lacking knowledge in this specific issue and just assuming with the support of assumptions and contentious sources.
page 349
page 350
page 433
The source is the book The Greeks in the United States by Theodore Saloutos, second printing 1975, Harvard University Press. The quality of the images is not too good since it was done with a fairly old digital camera. I will get a scanner soon and hopefully re-scan them.
All Turkey did as you can see from source was ship little more than 19,000 tons of aid from the very derilect 1883 vintage SS Kurtulus. Swedish shipping on the other hand sent 700,000 tons of GWRA aid. The Turks try to present a false tale of friendship and kindness but all they are capable to achieve is to be rotten muslim neighbors establishing "the civilization of the kadi court" over the real efforts of the Greek War Relief Association of the United States run and funded mostly by Greek Americans outside Greece to help their beleagured countrymen in Greece to help in their dark hour.
This message has been edited by Nikephoros on Apr 1, 2007 6:34 PM
... "Why do the media keep running stories saying suits are back? Because PR firms tell them to. One of the most surprising things I discovered during my brief business career was the existence of the PR industry, lurking like a huge, quiet submarine beneath the news. Of the stories you read in traditional media that aren't about politics, crimes, or disasters, more than half probably come from PR firms." ...
"Our PR firm was one of the best in the business. In 18 months, they got press hits in over 60 different publications." ...
"If anyone is dishonest, it's the reporters. The main reason PR firms exist is that reporters are lazy. Or, to put it more nicely, overworked. Really they ought to be out there digging up stories for themselves. But it's so tempting to sit in their offices and let PR firms bring the stories to them. After all, they know good PR firms won't lie to them."
A good flatterer doesn't lie, but tells his victim selective truths (what a nice color your eyes are). Good PR firms use the same strategy: they give reporters stories that are true, but whose truth favors their clients." ...
"In 1993, Demo Productions was established to present creative ideas related about advertisement, public relations, production and organization in order to be in the service of marketing." ...
Also look at the "Documentary Crew" page: http://www.sskurtulus.com/crew.htm
"He was born in 1969, in Ankara. He graduated from Marmara University Communication Faculty Journalism and Public Relations Division and made "Public Relations" master degree. In 1993 he formed Demo Producitons and prepared advertisement campaigns and organizations for various firms." ...
But Turks should be thankful for PR firms or else how to promote Turkey and the Turkish historical penchant for contusions of history?
Nothing a Turk says is credible, as their Nazi/Madrassa style education teaches them mass-lies about everything. They believe that the Greeks stole all the "Hellenistic" art/philosophy/sciences from coastal Anatolian people (who where Greek) but whom Turks are taught to believe were a Turkic people.
So, how can we sit here and even discuss the nonsense perpetuated by the Turks on matters of history? History is the greatest area where the military dicatorship of Turkey has had influence on when it comes to the collective mind of the Turkish population. A population that is under the same hypnotic illusions as the pre-WW2 Germans. This of course is for these military thugs to keep power. Keep the people scared, keep them paranoid. Keep them militant and violent. Make them lust for blood in the name of "defense"...
In one post, a Turk will call you a slave or will advocate that you be exterminated or conquered and subjugated. In another post, they will describe at great length how "benevolent" they are and how their culture is the culture of goodness and kindness, which extends religious freedom, racial tolerance, and human rights. LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
Who knows, perhaps the Turks will someday want to wage war against the United States, being that the USA has their flag on the moon, and that they believe the moon to be their sacred territory. HAHA! USA owns what is on your flag. Go get 'em gray wolves!
"Don't Tread on Me" I do not help on this issue especially from a known and established flamer such as you.
The Greek and other flamers create an environment that is good for the Turks. Examining concrete issues and the historical record cannot support the things the Turks here argue day in and day out. People such as you who respond to the Turks with flaming create an environment that the Turks can compete in: the flamefest. As to the specifics of the issue I have many other sources not available on the internet already digicamed and I will get a scanner soon. The only thing that a Greek flamer can help with is to bury such info under flames so when someone tries to examine the thread they will see dozens of offtopic and non factual posts.
You're wasting your breath (or your fingers tips) trying to talk sense into the Turks by debating a point-by-point on any matter due to the fact that 1] they have been led to believe an alternative false history of virtually EVERYTHING, 2] even if they do see the light through debate, they will never concede their errors since they are belligerent. Proof of that is seen in the Cyprus threads. They are proven wrong. For example, if some sort of Turkish justification is found to be false (as it usually is), they just say "who cares, you deserved being slaughtered anyway).
You must be new around here, or you must be very inexperienced in relating to Turks since you do not already understand these basic principles.
If anything, I'm the one making substantive discussion (something you called flaming, which in fact is a FLAME assault against me by yourself) since I'm not wasting the forum's time or bandwidth by foolishly discussing matters on which the Turks will never ever agree with you on. Instead, I raise the question, or rather shift the discussion to where it should be - on the subject of how Turks are basically uncooperative and impossible to have a meaninful dialogue with. This is evident in their culture all the way up to their foreign policy. Talk is meaningless to them. All they want to do is kill you or enslave you.
Debate, discussion and talk only exists between parties who are willing to come together (that's the first step Turks fail) and who are willing to listen (step 2 that Turks fail) and finally who are willing to admit their errors (step 3 the Turks fail) in the ability to make progress (step 4 the Turks fail - they don't want progress, they want YOUR LAND).
Wake up.
But hey, whatever floats your boat pal. I won't interfere with your attempt to educate the Turks here. Good luck. Enjoy.
This message has been edited by Dont_Tread_On_Me on Apr 2, 2007 8:38 AM
Bad news for the Turks: Nikephoros finally got a scanner.
In the above mentioned vs. Italy thread Turks were making lots of claims based on flimsy sources about "Turkish aid".
Here are the general followed by the regional officers/representatives of the Greek War Relief Assicoation:
page 254
page 255
page 256
page 257
page 258
page 259
The source is: H ELLAS STO STAYRODROMI by MPAMPH MARKETOY, second edition May 1942, New York. MPAMPH MARKETOY was editor of the Greek American newspaper Ethnikos Kyrix. An English rendition of the title would be Greece at the Crossroads.
Now based on the claims made by Turkish Team Google in that thread can anyone of them do the so same for the alleged Turkish aid? To make this clear, to even get all the names of just the regional and general officers of this GWRA openly published in my source, I would have have to scan all the pages from 254-288 of the above cited book.
http://www.sskurtulus.com/oykusu-tr2.htm
>>Turka>>:"The Turkish goverment sent 50.000 tons of food materials to Greece till the end of the war (yes, we're not just speaking of the SS Kurtulus but also the other previously mentioned ships.)
"Ships were of course hired by the Turkish Red Crescent unlike that bullsh*t Greek source claims (the ships were covered with Kizilay flags for crying out loud)."
The British suggested turning to Turkey for relief supplies. Because Turkey was defined as lying 'within the blockade zone', this option did not involve breaching the blockade itself... Whitehall hoped that Turkish grain would do the trick. This proved to be wishful thinking. The Greek War Relief Association in the USA provided funds, which were channelled through London to Turkey. But bureaucratic delays meant that it was not until October 1941 that the SS Kurtulus, a Turkish vessel, sailed for Piraeus, where the International Red Cross took charge of receiving and distributing the food. Between October 1941 and January 1942 the Kurtulus made five voyages before it was sunk. In this time it managed to transport 6,375 tons of supplies, too small a quantity to have had much impact on the situation in Athens.
In practice, the Turkish option was unworkable. Although the Turkish government had granted permission for up to 50,000 tons to be shipped to Greece, the grain was hard to find in Turkey, and the military authorities there began to clamp down on sales.
Mark Mazower, Inside Hitler's Greece: The Experience of Occupation, 1941-44 New Haven and London, Yale Nota Bene, 2001, pp. 46-47.
So whether Turkey sent 50,000 tons of aid to Greece or if it only authorized as Mazower asserts remains to be seen. The contention Turkey sent instead of only authorized 50,000 tons could be another Turkish half truth.
Once again the cursed scanning troubles have stricken my scanning attempt:
If any Greek from Greece would like to completely demolish the arguments of Turkish Team Google regarding this issue I ask that they look into a serious historic study of the Greeks of Istanbul to see what kind of huge role they had in organizing, securing and sending Turkish supplies to Greece using the well known GWRA aid.
Just did some research at a local library on a New York Times historical database. I have 24 PDF articles in my mailbox many of which contradict what this lame documentary and various other specious Turkish sources are trying to do with GWRA iniatied aid.
The Turkish attitude to history is systematically dishonest and immature. I wonder what possess Turks on this forum to enter in huge flaming historical efforts from what one or two Turkish sources are telling them.
I still need a Greek from Greece to look up a study of the Greek community of Turkey and say what the role of this community was as the New York Times did not go into huge specifics about their role. But I do have some info on their role.
This message has been edited by Nikephoros on Apr 16, 2007 10:19 PM
