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Egirdir Commando Training

June 26 2007 at 10:58 PM
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Kamil Reis  (Login KamilReis)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Egirdir Mountain Commando School.









The explosive set-ups used by PKK:













 
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(Login NorthernCyprus-Reloaded)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 26 2007, 11:09 PM 

The main difference is, when our soldiers die, they die as men defending their flag and country.

When a grik soldier dies, the families still have to live with the shame of their sons being faggots

---



 
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Your Turkish MASTER
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 26 2007, 11:15 PM 

That's where I did my military service

AAAAAH, AH...

Sivri, Edalýçeþme, Camiliyayla, Karaburun, Davraz...

Hey gidi günler

 
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Your Turkish MASTER
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 26 2007, 11:18 PM 

Hafta sonlarý Eðirdir Otel'de sigara böreði ve bira keyfi, sonra odaya çýkýp duþ yapmak ve TV karþýsýnda "zapping" yapabilmenin deðerini idrak etmek...

(Hayatýn en basit detaylarýnýn bile ne kadar "lüks" olduklarýný anlýyorsunuz)

 
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Your Turkish MASTER
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 26 2007, 11:20 PM 

I told it many times before, but I lost 34kg there

 
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Your Turkish MASTER
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 26 2007, 11:24 PM 

When I returned back home I couldn't wear any of my clothes, so I had to go shopping for new clothes with my sports suit.

 
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Kamil Reis
(Login KamilReis)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 26 2007, 11:33 PM 

The officials at Egirdir gave some briefings to the media about how they train to fight against PKK.

They said that %70 of the PKK mines were being found and disabled.

The physical training level given to the commandos is higher than US and NATO standards.

In NATO standards, a commando can walk 4 km over rough terrain in 1 hour with full 40kg load.

Turkish commandos can walk 7 km in 1 hour with the same 40kg load.


 
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DagKomdOk
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 26 2007, 11:41 PM 

The first day we climbed the mountains my heart almost jumped out of my mouth.

But within time (after the first 2 months of daily climbing, day and night) your "engine opens" and you get used to it.

 
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DagKomdOk
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 26 2007, 11:51 PM 

My face was constantly sweating, and I couldn't even say "Yes Sir!" to the commander who told me something (which I couldn't understand because my eyes were turning black) because I could barely breathe to stay alive.

As if all this is not enough, they don't let you hang your rifle on your right shoulder.

You must hold the G3 rifle "in diagonal" (çapraz tutuþ) while climbing (in case of terrorist attacks in real combat, according to the training), with the 40kg bag in your back. Believe me, holding that rifle with both hands "in diagonal" throughout hours of climbing (with all the weight in your back) makes a big difference.

 
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Sfakan Warrior
(Login sfakan)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 12:37 AM 

"They said that %70 of the PKK mines were being found and disabled"

We will only learn how many bodybugs return back to mamas...nobody knows how many mines PKK has! I doubt if PKK knows itself!


 
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(Login Greekbono)
Moderators

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 1:39 AM 

Sfakan
i have deleted your posts in this thread in your efforts to ruin it




 
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BarbaMitso
(Login BarbaMitso)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 4:45 AM 

Clearing mines is one crappy job.

I feel for the guys tasked with that duty.

 
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G/T brotherhood
(Login Lewnidas)
Soldiers

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 8:00 AM 

Quote:
Turkish commandos can walk 7 km in 1 hour with the same 40kg load.


u hv to be ****ing me

every 10 minutes a klm(1,2 to be accurate)? thats running not walking ! and i dnt know many that can run for an hour with 40kgs!plus u cnt retain such a pacce!!! u r full of crap! either the kilos are fake or the time !!!


-----------------------------------------------
Live like a maniatis, fight as a ranger, die as Helenas

 
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(Login constantinus)
WAFFer

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 8:11 AM 

Turkish commandos can walk 7 km in 1 hour with the same 40kg load.
--------
we should emnlist them in the marathon then.

 
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(Login Dienekis)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 8:45 AM 

The VS-50/69 mine AKA the FAGGOT KILLER

Autopsy reports from the mongolic victims of this mine have shown that there was a huge sharpnel concentration in the rectum area (or what's left of it) of the mongol soldiers...aparently the last thing the mongol soldiers do when they see the mine is to turn and have their arses facing it in order to get some pleasure before they meet allah...






The VS-50 is a plastic anti-personnel blast mine incorporating an overpressure mechanism preventing initiation in the event of sudden shock or impact. Manufactured in Italy and usually green or sand coloured, the mine has been found in Afghanistan, Angola, Ecuador, Iraq, Kurdistan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Mozambique, Peru, Rwanda, Sri Lanka, Western Sahara and Zimbabwe.

Height: 45mm
Diameter: 90mm
Main charge: 45g RDX

The red arming "pin" shown in the picture above varies in shape depending on the method of distribution, which could be mechanical or by hand.

The mine was offered with varying degrees of metal content as selected by the purchaser. Some are fitted with a metal plate and so relatively easy to detect with a metal-detector, in others the plate is replaced with a plastic alternative. There is no known external distinguishing mark to indicate those that are "minimum metal".





VS-50 is a resilient plastic-cased scatterable Anti-Personnel (AP) blast mine. The mine is constructed from three main assemblies: the top and bottom screw onto a central section housing the fuze mechanism. The black neoprene pressure pad, reinforced with either a metal or plastic plate (specified by the customer), seals the cavity in the top section of the mine. In the central section, the fuze has a spring-loaded striker retained by a bar on a pivoted shutter. There is also a small inflatable bladder and a red plastic safety pin to prevent the shutter from pivoting. The base section holds the main charge and has a central threaded detonator well. During transit a blue plug is fitted; this is replaced by the body-coloured stab-sensitive M41 detonator assembly during arming. An electronic anti-handling version of this mine (VS-50 EO3) was also produced. The mine was manufactured in olive green and sand colours, with other options available.

http://www.one-step-beyond.de/en/countries/angola/mines/angola_mine_vs-50.html


----------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://english.sabah.com.tr/578717C083364EAC98587260938BACDF.html

Invisible mines

The explosive mines that have been responsible for killing numerous soldiers are manufactured in Italy and are very compact. These mines, in addition to being placed under the soild, can also be hidden on tree branches and walls. Furthermore, as they are comprised of plastic, they are undeterminable by mine detectors.




Tiny "murderers"


The "tiny" mines have been the cause of death for many soldiers in the Southeast. The detection of these mines are nearly impossible, and they are very cheap to purchase.

Recently, a lot of soldiers in the Southeast have died as a result of these tiny mines. They are cylindrical; their diameter differs from 20 to 125 milimetres. They are mostly Italian VS-50 and VS-69 types and are often used by the PKK. They can be placed almost anywhere, including under the soil. Despite the fact that anti-personal mine trade is forbidden, the PKK has been able to quite easily obtain these mines from certain European countries, especially Italy.

These mines are brought into Northern Iraq via Greece and to Greek Cyprus by the PKK adherents in Europe.


Many thanks to the Italian manufacturer for their top quality service they provide..


--------------------------------------------


IRIS is watching you...

Quoting a Turkish forumer:
"It's a well known fact that most of the boys or girls living in south-eastern Turkey are losing their virginities to horses or dogs of their villages, so I don't think this will suprise any Turk in this forum; we are used to these kinda news..."




 
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Kamil Reis
(Login KamilReis)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

The Tower of Death

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June 27 2007, 9:14 AM 

This is the famous tower in Egirdir commando school. It is higher than the Bosphorus bridge. One slip of the hand and you fall to your death.


















 
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(Login european_citizen)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 10:00 AM 

though i did a civil service in the greek army, i am against militarism and ****e like that,from my poor experience i noticed that the commandos are using G3, which are not the ideal for such operations.

but..what i waste of money...poor turkos....give money for schools and hospitals not for stupid military photo exhibitions.

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 10:11 AM 

Quote:
This is the famous tower in Egirdir commando school. It is higher than the Bosphorus bridge. One slip of the hand and you fall to your death.



Its plain 'ol rappel descent .... whats to worry about?
Afraid of heights maybe?.....


 
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G/T brotherhood
(Login Lewnidas)
Soldiers

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 12:51 PM 

Quote:
Turkish commandos can walk 7 km in 1 hour with the same 40kg load.


if u hv never put a backpack in your back!

for the shake of your argument i will accept such a claim

those superduper commandos:

after a year or two their backs should be destroyed

should curry like 20ltr of water not to die from dehydration

should curry like 50 pair of shocks and underwears.


back now in the false of your claim

7 km in 1 hour means running adding 40 kilos (40 kilos for god shake) bring us to the conclusion that they can not sustain such a pace for more an hour. except if u hv van dame in universal soldier and we dnt know it!

so take your propaganda and stick it where u familar with!

and before jump with yr idiotic claims bare in mind that i hv run with a backpack so i know what it takes and how much time it needs AND I WAS CARRYING ONLY 25 KILOS! COMMANDOS OF THE KEYBOARD

-----------------------------------------------
Live like a maniatis, fight as a ranger, die as Helenas

 
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Kamil Reis
(Login KamilReis)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 1:02 PM 

I didn't come up with those figures. I got those numbers from the newspaper article.

It was also written that they run 27 km with 40kg load in 3.5 hours.

And also it said US rangers do 60 days of training but these Turkish commandos do 155 days of much harder physical workouts.




 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 1:15 PM 

Quote:
It was also written that they run 27 km with 40kg load in 3.5 hours



LOL!!!.... and you believe that crap?



 
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G/T brotherhood
(Login Lewnidas)
Soldiers

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 1:39 PM 

kamil those times can be achived but not with this kilos!(with something less than 10 kilos maybe)

so i thing the journalist is exaggerating !!

-----------------------------------------------
Live like a maniatis, fight as a ranger, die as Helenas

 
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bo75
(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 3:22 PM 

These kilos and distances are true. And if you think that is too harsh, listen to this, in real theatre you walk much more then that with full package and under the stress of falling into an ambush. That is train how you have to fight. Talk to any soldier who fought there and they will tell you the same, most of the time people pray god for a gun fight to start, be cause this time at least you don't have to walk you lie on the ground for cover and sounds like the sweetest siesta. That may sound crazy but it is. Soldiers develope new kind of tactics against exhaustion. Some even sleep while walking. You bend on the guys shoulder next to you and close your eyes. But not when you are in the hostile zone. Some of the guys here thinks it is a peice of cake or a computer game. But, it is not, it is beyond your imagination whether you receive the invincible Greek ranger school trainning or not, the real think is beyond anyone's guess.

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 3:28 PM 

Quote:
These kilos and distances are true. And if you think that is too harsh, listen to this, in real theatre you walk much more then that with full package and under the stress of falling into an ambush. That is train how you have to fight. Talk to any soldier who fought there and they will tell you the same, most of the time people pray god for a gun fight to start, be cause this time at least you don't have to walk you lie on the ground for cover and sounds like the sweetest siesta. That may sound crazy but it is. Soldiers develope new kind of tactics against exhaustion. Some even sleep while walking. You bend on the guys shoulder next to you and close your eyes. But not when you are in the hostile zone. Some of the guys here thinks it is a peice of cake or a computer game. But, it is not, it is beyond your imagination whether you receive the invincible Greek ranger school trainning or not, the real think is beyond anyone's guess.




WTF!?!?!?..... You obviously never been to the Army and definitely know NIL of Army in general.... Keep watching TV as this is probably your only source of information.....


 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 3:33 PM 

Hýmm, ok General, tell me what is wrong with what I wrote. Have you ever been to a gun fight, what are your credits, how long have you been serving in the army, what kind of trainning have you received, so that we can be enlightened by your expertise.

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 3:41 PM 

Its not fair for you as my father is a high rank military officer, so just for fun since I was a kid my playgrounds were in armycamps and my favourite weekends trailblazing on a 4x4 following my father on his recon and drill duties... Apart from this the last 30+ years Ive seen situations firsthand you can only dream of..... and that excluding my own military service which took place in Cyprus ....


 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 3:52 PM 

Ok, I can see that. What I am asking is something solid and your opinions about what I wrote above. What was wrong with them. I did not make any tactical evaluations so it would not be hard for you to tell what is wrong. What was the experiences that you thought was wrong among the things I wrote according to your experiences. Will you eloborate?

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 4:01 PM 

This is numba one wrong.....
Quote:
most of the time people pray god for a gun fight to start, be cause this time at least you don't have to walk you lie on the ground for cover and sounds like the sweetest siesta

even a kid watching war movies know that gunfire is the most stressing time for all living things.... siesta my a$$.... this is not a vietnam war movie....


 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 4:10 PM 

I have given you a reason, did you read my post? Gun fight is indeed stressing but walk 25 km with those freaking military boots with full package on your back, under the freaking sun or over the damned snow and see if you will be able think logically. You loose all our senses and you turn into a robot, every move becomes a reflex. That is why you are trainned so hard, what you have to do in a gun fight should turn into a reflex, be cause exhaustion caused by the lack oxygen through your brain anables you to think properly. That is why most of the soldiers pray for a gun fight be cause you are ordered to lay down on the ground your head burried into the ground. Unless such a thing happens, you walk for days with the hope of finding the enemy. It will only end when you find them, and when you find them it means war. Hope I am clear now.

 
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G/T brotherhood
(Login Lewnidas)
Soldiers

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 4:25 PM 

Quote:

These kilos and distances are true.



here we go again!

ok in this bloody forum how has walk for more than 30 klm with more than 20 killos for more than one day?

cause what i say is based IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES!

BRING ME A RELIABLE SOURCE (NATO-JANES SOMETHING LIKE THAT) TO SAY THAT THE TURKISH COMMANDOS HAVE A NORMAL OPERATING DISTANCE RATIO 7KLM/PER HOUR WITH 40 KILOS IN THIER BACKS and i will put for a month AS a signature ATTATURK IS THE BEST MAN THAT THIS PLANET EVER SAW

u dnt hv to be a rocket scientist to see that this humanly impossible, no one can sustain such a pace with such weight.period!!!!

-----------------------------------------------
Live like a maniatis, fight as a ranger, die as Helenas

 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 4:41 PM 

If you don't walk you die, how hard for you to understand. How will you be able to search all those mountains if you don't go there on foot. We are talking about mountains not a walk in the park. How stupid one can be. You have to do it or just leave the whole area to the enemy. What is your choice. Do you think that this is an exaragation. Hear this then, not only that but it is times that you have to carry your buddy too. Be cause he can't walk so all you have to do is to carry him, be cause he is your buddy, you two are responsible for each other. There are guys here who still can't grab the seriousness of the things over there. It is war you thick heads and the things happening there is beyond your imaginations. People are killing each other recklessly, you have to be one step before your foe. Do you know how hard those motherf.ckers. Hardenned with the guerilla warfare for years they are like some mountain goats, climbing the caves over the rocky cliffs, shooting at you, ambushing you etc.. Sometimes anyone can be suprised of one can achive under huge stress. Nobody says everybody can do that. There are a lot of guys who are rejected from the school every year. It is only the ones who succeed, receive the beret. Yes, we walked 40 km with full pack, G3 in hand from one mountain to the other, we will do it again and again, if in doubt, try us, will you?

 
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G/T brotherhood
(Login Levend)
Moderators

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 4:46 PM 

ok in this bloody forum how has walk for more than 30 klm with more than 20 killos for more than one day?

Little correction: its 30 miles

 
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Kallimachos
(Login Kallimachos)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 4:46 PM 

My friend runs Marathons and he told me there is no way these times are possible.

27klm in 3.5 hours with 40kg of weight is simply not possible. These kinds of times are almost superhuman. 40kg is 88lbs of weight. US Marines who are in top shape carry around 30lbs.

You Turkos are telling us that your troops can run like a marathon Olympic athlete while at the same time carrying 88lbs of weight on their backs?

And you expect us to believe this BS?







Hellas Uber Alles!



 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 4:53 PM 

A marathon athlete will probably fail any commando course in any decent army. Running a marathon is one thing, doing a travers another. You guys are just clueless.

 
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(Login ALEXANDER-THE-GREEK)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 5:13 PM 

Man i cant believe what i am hearing!!!!
So you guys are that stupid to believe that BS the journalists and the generals are feeding you?
Or you just want to tell us how mighty and strong the turkish army is, by seling this BS to us?
Ok.
Some simple questions, based on simple facts!

@Kamil Reis wrote:
Quote:
Turkish commandos can walk 7 km in 1 hour with the same 40kg load.




That means 8,5 minutes per Km

Then he wrote:
Quote:
It was also written that they run 27 km with 40kg load in 3.5 hours


That is 7,7 minutes per Km!!!!!!

So according to that logic....
a Turkish Commando needs 8,5 minutes to walk 1Km, but when he walks 27 Km he walks quicker and he needs 7,7 minutes per Km !!!!



Anyone who did marches 30 Km with weight in his back (like me) will be crying of laugh!!!!

Something else
@TuAF35LightningII wrote:
Quote:
That's where I did my military service………….
You must hold the G3 rifle "in diagonal" (çapraz tutuþ) while climbing (in case of terrorist attacks in real combat, according to the training), with the 40kg bag in your back.


Tell me the truth commando: You are sure that your "Bergen" bag was weight 40Kg? Did you had the change to weigh your bag?
What did you put inside the bag may i ask?


Agia-Sofia: The Greatest Church of Christianity now operates as a museum despite the the UN SECURITY COUNCIL'S DECISION OF 24 NOVEMBER 1981.

 
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(Login palioseira)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 5:15 PM 

-a Turkish Commando needs 8,5 minutes to walk 1Km, but when he walks 27 Km he walks quicker and he needs 7,7 minutes per Km !!!! -


owned



 
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bo75
(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 5:29 PM 

Did you checked what you have written before you post. If I were you I would checke them once more.

 
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Tourko Malaka
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 5:57 PM 



This is the tallest of its kind in the world

It's located at Karaburun on Lake Egirdir, about 30 minutes of walking distance away from the main barracks (to the northwest of it)

They told me that about a year before I did my military service there in 2005, an "astegmen" (two ranks below lieutenant (üstegmen) - a cadet?) fell and died.

May he rest in peace.

 
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Tourko Malaka
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 6:06 PM 

Quote:
Tell me the truth commando: You are sure that your "Bergen" bag was weight 40Kg? Did you had the change to weigh your bag?
What did you put inside the bag may i ask?




The bags contain all the necessary equipment (especially in EmAsYa format) and they often add stones just to make them heavier.

The most unlucky ones are those of the Özel Silah Bölügü (Special Arms Company, in which I did my novice training before becoming the Bölük Çavuþu (Chief Company Sergeant) of the Komando Bölüðü (Commando Company)) who additionally have to carry heavy machine guns like Bixi or larger ones with pedestals, apart from their bags.

The "unluckiest of the unluckiest" GIs also had to carry the "sweet box" and "tea box" in addition to all these (they sold sweets and tea at break during mountain climbing trainings)

 
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Tourko Malaka
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 6:09 PM 

^ The GIs naturally hated to do that one, so every day someone else did it

 
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Tourko Malaka
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 6:10 PM 

The sweet box and tea box probably weighed "at least" 20kg each - they were huge.

 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 6:12 PM 

Reserve officer (asteðmen). That tower is a legend among the commandoes. The school has a runway (parkur?)that is 15 km long around the lake and it also includes the water obstacles. It is a routine to do a complete penthatlon on that runway (parkur?). You start with the penthatlone then you go for the 40 km walk. Don't get me wrong you don't do them in a day. There certain days for certain trainnings. There are also trainning at nights which are the hardest of all. Then there are ambush, counter ambush, convoy, ambushing a convoy, deep recon, marksmanship trainnings and many others. The team you see in the picture shows the new doctrin of a team build-up in the army. Two fire support units with MG'S for each section, 2 soldiers with G3+grenaid launcher combo in each section, and two marksman either with G3+sniper-scope or Kanas (as it is called in the army) in each section. G3's are leaving their places to the HK'33s in the regular units of commando brigades but in the school they still use the good old G3s.

 
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Tourko Malaka
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 6:16 PM 

Try climbing a mountain with a 40kg bag + 20kg sweet/tea box + Bixi/machine gun with pedestal

Of course, the "unlucky" dudes kept swearing throughout the walk (I sometimes gave them a hand)

 
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Tourko Malaka
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 6:23 PM 

Egirdir also had a very harsh continental climate - extremely cold in the winter, very hot in the summer.

I couldn't feel my toes between late November and early April (they stayed partially numb because of the cold). I even feared that they would stay like that forever, luckily, starting from mid April, the numbness disappeared.

You couldn't wash your hands for more than 5 seconds, or your skin started to crack and bleed (the parts between our hand fingers were always "cut" and bleeding because of the cold)

 
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(Login NorthernCyprus-Reloaded)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 6:28 PM 

WOW! Simply F.ucking wow!!



Amazing, just amazing!

GRIKS look very closely to these pictures!
This is what real soldiers and real men are made of.
You might learn something

Vatan bu askerlerimizin, Mehmetcigin degerini bilsin. Allah hepsini korusun.



---



 
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G/T brotherhood
(Login Lewnidas)
Soldiers

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 6:31 PM 

when i did ti my time a friend of us ask us to make him a favor to mail a letter for him! by accident we were forced to open it and what we saw was

"My love everyday i run 10km i take 1000 push ups and im beaten every night"




the guy was a carpenter and he was hiding claiming that he was doing something all day.



I think i should call him is the only one that can stand in the same level with some commandos we have here!!!!

a re papatzes!!!

-----------------------------------------------
Live like a maniatis, fight as a ranger, die as Helenas

 
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(Login panos1980)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 7:03 PM 

a Turkish Commando needs 8,5 minutes to walk 1Km, but when he walks 27 Km he walks quicker and he needs 7,7 minutes per Km !!!! -





when i was teenager i was trainning as a runner in 200 and 400 meters
a simple walking for a 20 years old is 6 km per hour
if you plus 40 kg you just can not substain the same time unless you start running

27 km in 7,7 minutes
in that point people change the walking to quick qalking(badin)
which is actually like soft jokking


27 km in 7,7 minutes plus 40 kg in the back without a break needs athletes

turks seems they have an army of athletes ready for the olympics


AND ALL THIS ON A MOUNTAIN?
40 kg?

a normal bag with chiment (concrete) is weighting 50 kg

just imagine






............................................

""Maniots, known for their martial qualities, were the first to join the Greek liberation movement. The society called the Filiki Eteria ("Company of Friends") sent their representatives Perrevos and Chrisospathis to organize the Maniots. On March 17, 1821, 12,000 Maniots gathered in the church of Taxiarchs (Archangels) of Areopoli and declared war against the Ottoman Empire. The flag of the revolution was white with a blue cross in the center. On top of the flag there was a sign, "Victory or death". The Maniots were responsible for writing "Victory" and not "Freedom" on their banner since Mani was always free. On the bottom of the flag lied an ancient inscription, "With the shield or on the shield."
...........................................

 
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Alexander the Great
(Login ALEXANDER-THE-GREEK)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 7:24 PM 

@Tourko Malaka wrote:
Quote:
The bags contain all the necessary equipment

Can you please name the "all the necessary equipment? I mean you can start like this.
I put in my "Bergen" bag
-a pair of socks
-a pair of underclothes
-my army tent
-my sleeping bag
etc etc etc. I wonder how will they weight!


Quote:
The most unlucky ones are those of the Özel Silah Bölügü (Special Arms Company, in which I did my novice training before becoming the Bölük Çavuþu (Chief Company Sergeant) of the Komando Bölüðü (Commando Company)) who additionally have to carry heavy machine guns like Bixi or larger ones with pedestals, apart from their bags.

The "unluckiest of the unluckiest" GIs also had to carry the "sweet box" and "tea box" in addition to all these (they sold sweets and tea at break during mountain climbing trainings)





And then you finished us all!!!!!!
Look what he wrote!
Quote:

The sweet box and tea box probably weighed "at least" 20kg each - they were huge.

Try climbing a mountain with a 40kg bag + 20kg sweet/tea box + Bixi/machine gun with pedestal



Man!!!!
What super Commandos you turks are!!!

You can carry 60kg !!!! in the Bag, + the machinegun and you can still run 27 km with 40kg load in 3.5 hours !!!


And let me remind you what BS you are trying to feed us!!!
@Kamil Reis wrote:
Quote:
________________________________________
Turkish commandos can walk 7 km in 1 hour with the same 40kg load.
________________________________________


That means 8,5 minutes per Km

Then he wrote:
Quote:
________________________________________
It was also written that they run 27 km with 40kg load in 3.5 hours
________________________________________


That is 7,7 minutes per Km!!!!!!

So according to that logic....
a Turkish Commando needs 8,5 minutes to walk 1Km, but when he walks 27 Km he walks quicker and he needs 7,7 minutes per Km !!!!










Agia-Sofia: The Greatest Church of Christianity now operates as a museum despite the the UN SECURITY COUNCIL'S DECISION OF 24 NOVEMBER 1981.

 
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G/T brotherhood
(Login psychoballistics)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 8:07 PM 

Why Why but why gyreeks are so jealous,envious, why our neighbor is sinister why they are ominous....WHYYYY WHYYY they are gay )


 
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Dies irae
(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 9:42 PM 

The funnier thing is .... THEY BELIEVE THEIR VERY OWN BS....


 
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G/T brotherhood
(Login tekircik)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 9:44 PM 

As a man who runs, I agree with you that running 27 km 2ith 33 kg load is not realistic. Probably they miswritten the numbers...

Audaces Fortuna Iuvat

 
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Finlandia
(Login Finlandia)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 9:46 PM 

This story is such a big bull****








 
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G/T brotherhood
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Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 9:48 PM 

there may be mistakes in numbers BUT this did not look to me as bull****....



Audaces Fortuna Iuvat

 
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Kamil Reis
(Login KamilReis)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 9:51 PM 

Read more carefully what was written:

"Turkish commandos can walk 7 km in 1 hour with the same 40kg load."

"It was also written that they run 27 km with 40kg load in 3.5 hours"

The first one says WALK the second one says RUN.

So this thing you guys say:

"a Turkish Commando needs 8,5 minutes to walk 1Km, but when he walks 27 Km he walks quicker and he needs 7,7 minutes per Km !!!! "

is wrong, because it clearly says RUN 27 km, not WALK.







 
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G/T brotherhood
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Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 9:57 PM 

Yes, when thinking again, 7.7 km/h is not a fast velocity so that 27 km can be run.

But even looking at that tower makes me sick, no it is not a bull****. This is real ****. My respect to who trains in Egirdir...

Audaces Fortuna Iuvat

 
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(Login gstephanou06)
Honorary G/T Owner and St. Steph Group leader

i seek knowledge

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June 27 2007, 10:07 PM 

With that 40kg on that 7klm run/walk, how often would this guys have to do it? cheers

 
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(Login eddy85)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 10:12 PM 



I can swear you that 90 % of the whole manhood in the world would refuse to climb this thing up . Im honest and i woulndt climb this thing up either only if i had no other choice!

Coming soon...



 
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The 300 Malakas
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 10:17 PM 

This is the unofficial song of mountain commandos by the way


 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 10:17 PM 

The tower is impressive no doubt ...... but still its a simple rope decent.... period


 
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The 300 Malakas
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 10:20 PM 

By the way, General Büyükanýt announced today that from now on, commandos will only be professional troops - so I was one of the last lucky people to wear the blue beret at military service.

 
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The 300 Malakas
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 10:21 PM 

Quote:
The tower is impressive no doubt ...... but still its a simple rope decent.... period


Why don't you try it

 
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The 300 Malakas
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 10:23 PM 

The strong winds will make it all even more easier.

And the cold when you're holding those iron bars with your bare hands.

As easy as taking a candy from a baby.

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 10:24 PM 

I dont have to try it...... I do wayyyyy extremier stuff like mountain/rock climbing all year round plus vertical cave descends that is way trickier and with heavy payloads....


 
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The 300 Malakas
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 10:25 PM 

Yeah, I'm sure you do...

 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 10:29 PM 

And I spend my time writing responses to that guy. What a waste of time!

 
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(Login SAT.Korsan)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 10:29 PM 

Quote:



HOLY SCHIT!

I'm an FAA licensed skydiver and even I think that's pretty damn fvcked up!



Turanian Commonwealth: Together, to the future!
Kükremiþ sel gibiyim, bendimi çiðner aþarým. Yýrtarým daðlarý, enginlere sýðmam, taþarým! - M.A.Ersoy


ACIK ISTIHBARAT


 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 10:32 PM 

....and to add ..... this tower is a 2 stage tower..... the lower part (base of cement) is used for the rappel technique , and the upper with the free ropes is used for the controlled descend with a descender..... cause the weight of rope this long is imposible to handle with one hand..... and never forget that climbing ropes have a 8% elasticity..... this is 8m vertical bouncing for every 100m of rope!


 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 10:35 PM 

So keyboard warriors, you see there are ppl that have a life even away from computers.....


 
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The 300 Malakas
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 27 2007, 10:48 PM 

I didn't see it

 
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(Login panos1980)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 28 2007, 2:44 AM 

"It was also written that they run 27 km with 40kg load in 3.5 hours"



an average athlete in the marathon complete the race in 3 hours
the record is 2 hours and 30 minutes if i remember right


those athletes have sacrifice their lifes to marathon

an ordinary human at 20's go to the army
propably can run 40 km in 4-5 hours (maybe more.... )

a normal 20 years old male can run 30 km in 3-4 hours

CONSIDER THAT A 5 KILO WEIGHT LOADED AT THE BACK AFTER ONE HOUR OF RUNNING WEIGHTS 4 TIMES MORE

40 KILOS FOR 3.5 HOURS (UNSTOP) RUNNING 27 KM
NOTE EVEN USA MARINES CAN DO IT WHEN THEY FEED THEIR SOLDIERS WITH ANABOLICS
(A BAG OF CHIMENT -CONGRETE WEIGHTS 50 KGS................IMAGINE)
POOR BOYZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ




............................................

""Maniots, known for their martial qualities, were the first to join the Greek liberation movement. The society called the Filiki Eteria ("Company of Friends") sent their representatives Perrevos and Chrisospathis to organize the Maniots. On March 17, 1821, 12,000 Maniots gathered in the church of Taxiarchs (Archangels) of Areopoli and declared war against the Ottoman Empire. The flag of the revolution was white with a blue cross in the center. On top of the flag there was a sign, "Victory or death". The Maniots were responsible for writing "Victory" and not "Freedom" on their banner since Mani was always free. On the bottom of the flag lied an ancient inscription, "With the shield or on the shield."
...........................................

 
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Dies irae
(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 28 2007, 9:30 AM 

Anyway.... this tower is really impressive to say the least but completely useless as far as training goes...


 
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eddy85
(Login eddy85)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 28 2007, 7:42 PM 

Aheron you belong to the 10 % brave men then... Case closed!

Coming soon...



 
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Dies irae
(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 9:52 AM 

Quote:
Aheron you belong to the 10 % brave men then... Case closed!


Its not about be brave or anything dum-dum!
Its about technique in climbing-descent... How long does it take to climb that tower for a rope descent u think? Then ask yourself about a trainee how many times in a day can he practice his skills....

In addition the long descend from the top is useless as a technique and especialy from that height for military use..... Thats a technique we use in vertical cave systems and thats the only place it can be used ( unless your brave soldiers intend to hide in a cave during wartime )

TO ALL : I would expect someone to argue provided he/she has experience on such matters and not talking BS... period!


 
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Kamil Reis
(Login KamilReis)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 10:10 AM 

Those commandos are trained for operations in south eastern Turkey and north Iraq.

The region is full of high, rocky mountains and there are strong winds. The troops sometimes descend from helicopters and they also descend from the top of mountains to the caves below.

You could train them from a 30 meter high tower, it would still be satisfactory.

But training them from an 80 meter tower gives them a better experience and gets them used to extreme heights, winds, prepares them psychologically.

For a guy that has descended from that tower, going down onto a cave in the mountain becomes a piece of cake.

It's not just physical training, it's also psychological.


 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 10:18 AM 

LOL.... its NOT the same ropes and techniques descending from a helo and that tower...... and as far as mountainous regions go... there are a lot of climbing fields/rocks in Turkey to train Im sure.... and the psycho factor could be strengthen there with better results than using a descender!

Quote:
For a guy that has descended from that tower, going down onto a cave in the mountain becomes a piece of cake.


although similar technique it has some preparation aspects not possible to exercise on a fixed rope... The trick in descending a cave is the way you fasten your ropes and the initial phase of descend.... I advise you to go contact some speleological group/organization and ask them.



 
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Kamil Reis
(Login KamilReis)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 10:26 AM 

Descending from the side of the mountain does not give the same psychological effect as the tower.

You hold onto the mountain, but on the tower you're up there with nothing to hold on and with strong winds blowing you around, it's a much scarier experience.

They wouldn't waste money and build such a thing if it had no use. Even if it does have no practical use, a soldier that says "I went up to that thing and came down" will have a feeling of self-confidence which is important when preparing for battle.




 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 10:31 AM 

Quote:
They wouldn't waste money and build such a thing if it had no use. Even if it does have no practical use, a soldier that says "I went up to that thing and came down" will have a feeling of self-confidence which is important when preparing for battle.


Thats because this tower was build only to showoff and nothing more..... BTW the descender is a piece of equipment that acts like a brake on the rope..... it controls the rate of your descend ... You go over it, you melt the metal and/or burn the rope = free fall.... leave it and take away your hands from it, it immediately blocks and stops your descend ..... So apart from the height it wont be any more good in your moral....


 
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Kamil Reis
(Login KamilReis)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 10:39 AM 

Those commandos do parachute jumps, helicopter descend, mountain descend etc. they do all kinds of training. This tower is just a part of that training.

For 20 year old boys, some of which have not even gone up 50 meters heights in their whole lives, that tower is a scary and good experience.




 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 10:39 AM 

That tower is used for a lot of things. And in Greece i have seen pictures of such towers although not as high as this one. This is a multi-purpose tower. There are a lot of abilities that the soldiers gain from the tower. This tower is a place where you learn to repel, fast-rope etc... also it is a moral-booster for the soldiers as Kamil also mentioned. Claiming it to be useless only shows the lack of knowlege and experience to evaluate the importance of the tower. Nothing more.

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 10:48 AM 

Quote:
Claiming it to be useless only shows the lack of knowlege and experience to evaluate the importance of the tower. Nothing more.


Dude!... Im into these things for a couple of decades now, certified in caving techniques, climbing/descend boulders/rocks and mountaineering ... Ive seen dozens of techniques( although they change from time to time ) and I can assure you that the higher part of this tower and its technique of descend is totally USELESS for a soldier......

And to prove it to you, provide me ONE single real life scenario that the top-of-the-tower descend technique can be used....


 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 10:55 AM 

You are in a slave landscape ambushed. You are being fired at from a cave that is above you and you can't manouver due to the lack of tactical possiblity created by the landscape. Your manouver units are pinned down by the enemy sniper and MG fire. There is only one enterence of the cave but you have to do a rock repel aprox. 100 metres. only then you can come close to the cave's mouth and clear the enterance with the grenades. You have to be silent and fast be cause if you are seen by the enemy you will be fired at from the below. Tell me your options in such a scenario, what would you do my friend.

 
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Kamil Reis
(Login KamilReis)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 10:59 AM 

"And to prove it to you, provide me ONE single real life scenario that the top-of-the-tower descend technique can be used...."

You're just talking about the practical usage of the tower.

When boxers train they do rope skipping. They don't skip rope in the boxing match but they still do it while training because it is useful for them.

Same thing with the tower. Even if it has no practical use as you say, it is a very good experience.

Here is a similar tower in Canada, during World War 2:




 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 11:02 AM 

Kamil, this one you are showing is used for para-troops during trainning, you can find similar ones in Kayseri not in Eðridir.

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 11:07 AM 

Quote:
You are in a slave landscape ambushed. You are being fired at from a cave that is above you and you can't manouver due to the lack of tactical possiblity created by the landscape. Your manouver units are pinned down by the enemy sniper and MG fire. There is only one enterence of the cave but you have to do a rock repel aprox. 100 metres. only then you can come close to the cave's mouth and clear the enterance with the grenades. You have to be silent and fast be cause if you are seen by the enemy you will be fired at from the below. Tell me your options in such a scenario, what would you do my friend.



The free descend as seen from the top of the tower is TOTALLY different from the rappel technique...

in both techniques you have to use a harness ( thats some sort of waist/feet and maybe chest combination of belt )

In rappel you use a couple of carabiners and and the loop hole (or "8" as we call it ) which provides the friction and control of the descend.... You also control the descend by having your feet against a fixed object (be it wall or rock) and descend slowly or with small jumps to avoid overheating of equipment.

In free descend you use the descender that acts like and autobrake for the user of it..It is very difficult (and stupid) to use this free descend technique against a rock...

Both techniquest are NOT reversibles in the sense that you only go down and not up.... To revert the process you have to stop (somewhere), relieve the tension on the rope and use a combination of "zoomers" to slowly start climbing back....


 
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bo75
(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 12:27 PM 

AHERON, is that a tactical evaluation? Did I ask you what kind of technics you use for repelling or fast ropping or decending? I simply asked you what would be your tactical choice in such a situation. Would you choose to pass the plain field in front of you using your manouver units (which are already pinned down). Would you try to flank the cave (which is impossible due to the nature of this kind of op.) or would you try to use the cliff and attack from above? and using which technic? Remember, it is a 100 mt. high cliff. In such a landscape the mortars are useless, the RPG pr LAW are useless. Tell me your opinion?

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 12:35 PM 

Quote:
AHERON, is that a tactical evaluation? Did I ask you what kind of technics you use for repelling or fast ropping or decending? I simply asked you what would be your tactical choice in such a situation. Would you choose to pass the plain field in front of you using your manouver units (which are already pinned down). Would you try to flank the cave (which is impossible due to the nature of this kind of op.) or would you try to use the cliff and attack from above? and using which technic? Remember, it is a 100 mt. high cliff. In such a landscape the mortars are useless, the RPG pr LAW are useless. Tell me your opinion?


This is your response on my first question but it is still unanswered
Quote:

AHERON wrote:
provide me ONE single real life scenario that the top-of-the-tower descend technique can be used....


We are not talking about military tactics right now (although I would gladly do so later) but I aske you earlier to provide me ONE reallife use of FREE DESCEND application in the military.

Keep in mind that the free descend technique is quite complicated for military use because it would take you at least 15-20sec to detach yourself from the rope, unlike the rappel technique in which it can be done in an instant!





 
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bo75
(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 12:50 PM 

If you answer my scenario question you will also find the answer of your own question.

 
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bo75
(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 12:58 PM 

Small tip, you will have to use choppers too.

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 1:00 PM 

You failed to answer because there is no application so the use of tower with this technique stands as a showoff....


 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 1:05 PM 

Have you ever been in such enviroment Aheron. You have to first land your troops on the hill via chopers but if there is not enough LZ on the hill top what do you do? Then you have to decend them down the cliff. Now tell me what technics do you use?

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 1:07 PM 

Quote:
Have you ever been in such enviroment Aheron. You have to first land your troops on the hill via chopers. Then you have to decend them down the cliff. Now tell me what technics do you use?


No doubt of going down the cliff.... The fact is you CANNOT use descender equipment for such an operation as shown in the tower training!!!!!


 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 1:08 PM 

.... and from a helo the fast rope descend technique is totally different....
Obviously you have never done ANY of those.....


 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 1:15 PM 

AHERON, you can't jump of a plane before you don't jump from the parascute tower. Are they both the same, do you use the same equipment you use while jumping of the plane? You get familiar with the technics used in the real time by using such towers, simulator etc... Do you shoot the same bullet in the trainning and the real gun-fight. Of course there are differences, you fast-rope from stabile platform and when you use chopper there are stabilization problems. But you can't put a newbie to a chopper and expect him fast rope, can you? You can't take a newbie to a cliff-side and push him down the cliff and expect him to land safely? That is why that tower is usefull. Though you are not the man you told me you were, I am still trying to answer you and have a quality chat, keep it civil instead of using stupid smilies please.

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 1:44 PM 

Quote:
AHERON, you can't jump of a plane before you don't jump from the parascute tower. Are they both the same, do you use the same equipment you use while jumping of the plane? You get familiar with the technics used in the real time by using such towers, simulator etc... Do you shoot the same bullet in the trainning and the real gun-fight. Of course there are differences, you fast-rope from stabile platform and when you use chopper there are stabilization problems. But you can't put a newbie to a chopper and expect him fast rope, can you? You can't take a newbie to a cliff-side and push him down the cliff and expect him to land safely? That is why that tower is usefull. Though you are not the man you told me you were, I am still trying to answer you and have a quality chat, keep it civil instead of using stupid smilies please.


I advise you to either get off that stool you sit on and go learn something outside (like climbing from a professional for instance ) or you could just google up and find the info yourself if you are so lazy.

And in now way you are in position to dispute my arguments based on my personal experience and training cause you only show your ignorance and level of communication.

And to give you a simple tip: use of rope does not mean you can do anything you like, as you like, with it... Different techniques are used for different situations... And your examples are childish to say the least....

Now I dont care what you think or say.... You got this tower and your training "professionals" show irrelevant techniques to your soldiers.... Fine with me.... Your screwup... In war time we will all have a good laugh!


 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 1:48 PM 

Quote:
Though you are not the man you told me you were,



What exactly you mean by that?


 
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bo75
(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 1:50 PM 

AHERON, either evaluate or stop insulting. What is childish with my scenario, what is the tactics to be used in such a situation. What is different technics do you use while fast ropping of a chopper. You are just another lier keyboard warrior who can use the google very well but on the other side when asked for personel experience provides nothing but insults and empty words. Either provide something or quit the crap. I am talking about real gun-fight (or whatever it is called in english) not some mountain climbing hobby chat. What technics would you use in such a scenario, and what tactics. Put up or shut up.

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 1:58 PM 

I speak of experience.... I dont have time to google things....
Never insulted you and I kept this conversation technical related contrary to you which your first priority is flamming Greco-turkish conversations....
Obviously you are not up to it are you?..... Cause I do what I do for years and I got a training and access to anything military related cause of my family military background and you are just another nonbeliever....
DUDE.... I DONT GIVE A $HIT IF YOU BELIVE ME OR NOT......
You cant change the facts as you and nobody else can't change the history!!!!

Case closed end enjoy!


 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 2:08 PM 

Never tried to flame anything AHERON, you got me wrong there. But, I simply asked you a quetion as you were a commando in the border line of Cyprus, you should know it. You are ambushed and how would you get out of this ambush and destroy your enemy. Instead of answering you have given me some unnecessary technics of Alpine dicipline, some uncalled insults of not knowing what I am talking about and now flaming. That tower is usefull for all means and there are some other smaller towers for other uses too in the school. There are also rocky cliffs for advanced mountain warfare trainnings. There are lots of other parkurs or trainning zones for other purposes. If you need some more information about the school just ask me or ask TUAF, you have a lot to learn about it.

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 2:16 PM 

Quote:
...you have given me some unnecessary technics of Alpine dicipline...


Exactly... because it all started about rope techniques and you try to evade as it suits you....
Answer my primary question and we then can continue onto tactical situation.... After all, if you dont descend, you cant fight!.... heheh!


And by the way.... I never said I was a commando in Cyprus.... I said I was in Cyprus but never mentioned the branch and my duties....

 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 2:29 PM 

You asked one suitable scenario for the use of that tower and i provided you with one. Where did I evade your question? The thing was not about rope technics but about the use of that tower. You were the one who came up with all those rope technics crap. And you were the one who claimed to have come face to face with situation that are beyond my imagination in Cyprus in the border so I thought you were either a commando or a a member of an elite unit. Forgive me about my quick judgement, it is my fault.

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 2:37 PM 

The argument ( if you look closely at previous posts ) is around the technique used in the upper tower... My question was, WHERE would someone USE this descending technique as it is totally useless in the military.... Therefor the actual existence of that upper part is also useless...

There are of course (rare) instances that might require this technique, BUT, it has to be done on the spot because it requires other skills also (which should be part of the training itself) and NOT on a fixed rope of a tower.

Do your own research on this, I dont try to put you down or anything or show some superiority.... just plain facts....


 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 2:42 PM 

AHERON tell me one thing if you are really s,incere in what you are telling. Before you went to the mountains for your climbing hobby, did you go under a period of trainning and what kind of places were you trainned in. Or you started to climb the mountains all of a sudden?

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 2:54 PM 

I started trekking since I was a child with my father and liked going through the "playgrounds" in the army camps and training facilities.... I was around 15-16 when I joined some rockclimbing training groups which very fast their mountaineering excursions draw my attention also..... In 97 after my military service some friends introduced me to an athletic speleological organization where I got some caving and vertical descend/ascend technical experience... At the same time I started scubadiving as a supplement to my summer outside activities......

As you see, its a kind of chain reaction.... I dont know what I will do next year or in 5 years from now....


 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 3:12 PM 

Fair enough. Now, all I wanted to know was that, did you start climbing the rocks. Or were you given a prior trainning?

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 3:15 PM 

Quote:
Now, all I wanted to know was that, did you start climbing the rocks. Or were you given a prior trainning?


Is this another question or a rhetorical one?


 
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(Login pasha87)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 3:15 PM 

THEY ARE REAL SOLDIERS! NOT SHOW ENTERTAINER LIKE GREEKS

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 3:17 PM 

@pasha87

Contribute or stay out of this...


 
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bo75
(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 3:24 PM 

Rheotoric one indeed. You should now those walls that are used for giving prior trainning to the beginners? Are you using the same technics that you use while climbing up the rocks? That is all I want to know?

 
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bo75
(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 3:28 PM 

But for now I have to leave, hope to respond later to you.

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 3:50 PM 

Quote:
Rheotoric one indeed. You should now those walls that are used for giving prior trainning to the beginners? Are you using the same technics that you use while climbing up the rocks? That is all I want to know?


you mean those variable 1.5-3m height walls on the battle track to train troops?
The answer is slightly complicated in the sense that climbing is partly based on friction (where you put your feet to step on)... Apart from this there is no other element in common between combat climbing and..... well... climbing

That is because in combat climbing you go over (short) obstacles with brute force in the shortest time possible exercising some sort of body force, but it always remains a small obstacle.

In climbing you have to climb to reach a goal. Its all about the techniques you have learned and the way you apply them on the rock. For instance, you try all the time to keep your body weight over your legs, and not on your hands... even the strongest man after a few minutes would have let go... imagine if he is 100-150m above ground on the rock.

So basically we can say its a sort of playing "vertical chess" on a wall of rock.... finding grips for the hands to keep or counterbalance your body weight.... find places to put on your feet or use friction on your favor etc... Its all about maintaining your stamina in order to proceed fast and with caution....


 
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(Login panos1980)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 29 2007, 10:01 PM 

@AHERON

thanks file for the valuable information you gave us
i am interest in climbing as well
very good info about the ropes man


@Turks

AHERON is only trying to prove that this tower do not have the requirements for fully trainning of the soldiers in climbing and coming down
probably is just for a quick taste for the new ones
the tower is been build in a location(between hills) that there are not strong winds
the techincks that aheron axplained for the fixed rope are interesting
the tower is tall indeed make them scared more,but this do not make them good fighters gives them only a taste
yes it is impressive but seems it do not do the job that most we been expecting
turkey is a big country their "specials" forces are surla burla
in greece we are few,so we do not have time to train everybody
just the very good
but the good ............are really good




............................................

""Maniots, known for their martial qualities, were the first to join the Greek liberation movement. The society called the Filiki Eteria ("Company of Friends") sent their representatives Perrevos and Chrisospathis to organize the Maniots. On March 17, 1821, 12,000 Maniots gathered in the church of Taxiarchs (Archangels) of Areopoli and declared war against the Ottoman Empire. The flag of the revolution was white with a blue cross in the center. On top of the flag there was a sign, "Victory or death". The Maniots were responsible for writing "Victory" and not "Freedom" on their banner since Mani was always free. On the bottom of the flag lied an ancient inscription, "With the shield or on the shield."
...........................................

 
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bo75
(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 30 2007, 2:54 PM 

Aheron, as the aim of my last quetion is to make a comparison between the trainning periods of the beginners and the advaced phases of climbing, you showed me that the basic trainning and advanced trainning are two different periods. Perhaps I thought you can understand where I was trying to lead but I have to explain it to you anyway. When you start a trainnign you put your soldiers in positions where they will face the real time war conditions where they will face their enemies. But for that you have to act in phases. Like learning language you first teach them the basics. For this you don't train them theorically but you give them field experience. You take them to simalated war zones, you take them to simulated urban areas to teach them how to fight under these conditions. Then you teach them the technics as t how practically they can over come the obstacles they will face in these areas. Such as river crossings, traversing, diving and swimming long distances, climbing up or down a hill, decending, repelling, fast roping etc... that tower is a tool to give the basics of these things. You teach them the basics by the tower then you take them to the field and go on trainning in the real land scape. Either these guys nor me are Alpine dicipline climbers and noone wants them to be. And I saw some of our friends and journalists are refering these guys as mountain commandoes but they are not. They are commandoes but they earn their titles when they reach their assigned brigades. You go to Hakkari you are a mountain commando, you go to Kayseri you are a para-commando. The tower serves as a first phace trainning tool and also a moral booster and also it gives the advantage of trainning different types on a single platform. ý have told one of the guys here before and I am telling you again, don't compare guys with marathon athletes or hobby climbers.

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 30 2007, 3:07 PM 

No doubt about it.... all I say is the way they train ... not why, how, and how difficult they train....
Once you learn something you have to learn it the proper way.... These guys do not learn it the right way....

Everybody knows how to pack their clothes and put emm in a bag..... that does not mean you can also pack a parachute.... do you?


 
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(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 30 2007, 3:16 PM 

So, tell me what is wrong about their trainning? And while doing that tell me the reasons as to why they can not use them regarding the landscape of the SE.Anatoia? Tell me what is wrong with teaching these guys not to be afraid of height by trainning them on a tower which is 80 mt high aprox.?

 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 30 2007, 3:36 PM 

Quote:
So, tell me what is wrong about their trainning? And while doing that tell me the reasons as to why they can not use them regarding the landscape of the SE.Anatoia? Tell me what is wrong with teaching these guys not to be afraid of height by trainning them on a tower which is 80 mt high aprox.?


First of all, it is normal to train someone to overcome his fears and control them ... alas... its a must...

Secondly if you look at my previous posts you will understand why this descend they train in is flawed... but Im afraid I will explain once more....

The do a free descend right? where could you possibly do a free descend?

Mountain rock/vertical wall? yes.... but rappel is way faster to descend a rock or any other vertical obstacle plus you dont have the drawbacks of the descender those guys on the foto use...

Chopper? yes.... but the height they descend is way above the ground a chopper would hover and you already have the fast rope technique for this... plus they use a piece of equipment called the descender which does not permit them to descend fast enough and it takes time to release the rope once they touch ground.... thus valuable time for a team to exit a helicopter

Vertical cave entrance? yes.... only if there is no support against the wall.... that is the morphology of the area leaves you suspended in the air.... there you would use a descender with this technique.....
BUT!...... free descend is not only just suspending from a rope and controlling your descend.... its the preparation you take on the rock or any other fixed point, the way you start the descend, and finally the descend itself

Now if we say that in a perfect world there would be a 5% of the times a commando would use ropes to go down a cave, and lets forget they lack of training of free descend ( cause the descend itself need absolutely NO training... its the preparation that takes the training and those guys dont take that kind of training )... do you think that this tower has a significance apart from the fact to impress ignorant people?




 
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bo75
(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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June 30 2007, 6:58 PM 

AHERON, there have been many occasions where the soldiers had to decend into the caves and in many cases they did it with perfection. Obviously the reason you can not come to the understanding as to why to beleive that this technic is unnecessary is be cause you don't have any idea the geography that these soldiers have been fighting. That technic was used during some suprise attacks esspecially at nights against some cave bases used by the PKK. Nobody in the army would care about building such structures just to show off.

I don't how you came up with the idea that these guys don't receive the trainning for preparation. There is also a huge cave inside the trainning facility which is used fot simulation of such attacks. And again I am repeating, this tower is used only to prepare the soldiers to the idea of using the ropes correctly and lessen their fear of high and make them familiar with the concept of such operations. No reason to show off when you are preparing these young guys to kill and die. Those facilities in the school served well their purpose and will be serving in the future too.

By the way, Check Republic Special Forces were there at the moment going under the same trainning with the commandoes from Pakistan and Germany while these interviews were being done as a side note. They will be there for aprox. 90 days and receive their batches from the Eðridir Commando school.

 
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Dies irae
(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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July 1 2007, 10:11 AM 

Im really tired of this discussion, I gave you FACTS you gave me THEORIES..... my point stands and it can be confirmed by anyone who has done such activities, knows about military tactics and where/how to apply them...
Now if you think that doing stuff like bungee jumping or anything will turn you into a super soldier that noone can match thats fine with me..... Even if at the beginning of the thread you and some other didnt believe what I was talking about.....


 
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bo75
(Login bo75)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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July 1 2007, 11:26 AM 

AHERON, you are just another thick-head who lacks comprhension skills. Who said they will turn into super soldiers or etc... Learn to read, let the soldiers decide what is good for them to train with not a mountain goat wannabee kid.

 
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Kamil Reis
(Login KamilReis)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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July 2 2007, 1:00 PM 

Here is another photo of the tower:




 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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July 2 2007, 1:11 PM 

Much better this way.....
They do not use the descender as a friction controller in the end..... they just use double rope and the "8" for -lets say- free rappel...


 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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July 2 2007, 1:13 PM 

The guy that descends has his hands TOTALLY on the wrong place of the rope.... if his trainer would not be underneath to control his rate of descend, that guy would be history.....
...but still I would like to have a closer look on the harness they wear...


 
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(Login palioseira)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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July 2 2007, 1:25 PM 


Exeis kaneis fotos apo ton gremo pou ekpaideyontai oi lokatzides (ayton me ta grafity panw). etsi gia na to bouloson ta memetia

Nice thread (i was telling in Greek)



 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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July 2 2007, 1:28 PM 

Quote:
Exeis kaneis fotos apo ton gremo pou ekpaideyontai oi lokatzides (ayton me ta grafity panw). etsi gia na to bouloson ta memetia

Nice thread (i was telling in Greek)



Ahhh ... you mean the white rocky mountain at thrakomakedones under mont parnais in parnitha where we go and practice climb/descend?


 
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(Login palioseira)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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July 2 2007, 1:30 PM 

-Ahhh ... you mean the white rocky mountain at thrakomakedones under mont parnais in parnitha where we go and practice climb/descend? -

Im not sure were is situated. If you are a lokatzis you know better than me

exeis photos?



 
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(Login AHERON)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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July 2 2007, 1:35 PM 

Im not LOK I just go there when I dont have time to spend on a trip to other climbing fields... I got some old fotos but have to be scanned....
Wonder why you want to show them... The place is only for practice with a 60-70m max rock and a 5 to 6+ scale of climbing difficulty.... Nothing to worry about....


 
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(Login palioseira)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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July 2 2007, 1:40 PM 


Im not LOK I just go there when I dont have time to spend on a trip to other climbing fields... I got some old fotos but have to be scanned....
Wonder why you want to show them... The place is only for practice with a 60-70m max rock and a 5 to 6+ scale of climbing difficulty.... Nothing to worry about....

its ok nvm




 
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bo75
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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July 2 2007, 3:52 PM 


 
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Kamil Reis
(Login KamilReis)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Egirdir Commando Training

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July 2 2007, 4:12 PM 

Nice videos Bo75, thanks for posting. Looks like a nice place with all those obstacle courses and the tower.


 
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