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Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

May 11 2009 at 8:29 AM
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Nutuk  (Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

The Milgem corvette had severe leakage problems during tests after installation of her main MTU propulsion system but could be saved by pump systems of the assisting two tugboats.
The corvette is now in a dry dock untill modifications on the hull are completed. The mishap is expected to delay the construction works for about 8 months.

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(Login Combat_Master)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 11 2009, 8:37 AM 

Serious stuff, do you have a link nutuk.

headlines.gif

 
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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 11 2009, 8:39 AM 

Working on it, have to scan it first.

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Kappa
(Login Andartis)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 11 2009, 9:07 AM 

Guess that these things happen!




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G/T unity
(Login Lewnidas)
Soldiers

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 11 2009, 2:07 PM 

now u get why were so sarcastic and judgemental with milgem! offcourse this kind of things are expected. now dnt start crying like small boys that its new toy broke, its nothing great.

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cause only we (the hellenes),contrary to the barbarians we do not count the amount of our enemy in the battle.

 
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G/T unity
(Login skirted_soldiers)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 11 2009, 2:09 PM 

wtf, the greeks show some understanding/sympathy?!? happy.gif

 
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G/T unity
(Login Lewnidas)
Soldiers

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 11 2009, 2:22 PM 

vre malakako we knew it will happen! as we know that is nothing great. we will tease u about it now and then (especially everytime u will dare to write milgem) but nothing unexpected!

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cause only we (the hellenes),contrary to the barbarians we do not count the amount of our enemy in the battle.

 
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(Login keminadore)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 11 2009, 3:17 PM 

No comment needed.

bouncingboobs.gif

 
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G/T unity
(Login hellenas)
WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 11 2009, 4:12 PM 

**** happens, specially in newly build ships , and prototypes. No need to exaggerate about it. I t could happen to everyone.

"Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,

that here obedient to their laws we lie"
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(Login DirtyDirtyDirtyBird)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 11 2009, 5:46 PM 

This sucks ass, MILGEM's propulsion system is pretty conventional, its not like its got waterjet propulsion! If its leaking it would be leaking in the cooling water intake or at the propeller shaft seals, I dont see how it could take 8 months to fix unless there is a significant design flaw.

I Hail The Flag
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G/T unity
(Login hellenas)
WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 11 2009, 6:19 PM 

You tried to push the limits maybe, in terms of interior space or something similar and it backfired.

Maybe flooding, which according to articles was severe, damaged essential electronics, insulation etc that may take time to rebuild since there is no stock of anything for such new design.

Anyway, this should be expected among the "baby" mishaps that are expected in new ships.



"Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,

that here obedient to their laws we lie"
[linked image]



 
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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 7:37 AM 

More bad news the Milgem corvette TCG Heybeliada scheduled for completion on October 25, 2010 has been re-scheduled to september 28 2011.

With following sea trials and testing of the weapon systems this will mean that official inauguration may occur in 2012 or bad case even 2013.

I have problems with virus on my homecomputer so I couldn't scan the article, I'll use the scanner at my work and put it here at the end of the day.

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Gorkay
(Login gorkay)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 7:42 AM 

Thats sad. I hope the lesson is learned so we wont face problems with other milgems and future frigate.

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G/T unity
(Login Andartis)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 8:14 AM 

Nutuk why did you start this thread for?
anyhow credit to you for doing so..

After all we have Hops have bashed the poor ship from its production stage that something was bound to go wrong and ,I guess some of us have become fond of it somewhat [linked image]




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(Login yasin22)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 8:36 AM 

i hope this dos not happen again at all

[linked image]

my cool turkish flag wolf sig

 
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(Login Osmanogullari)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 8:50 AM 


>>>> This sucks ass, MILGEM's propulsion system is pretty conventional, its not like its got waterjet propulsion! If its leaking it would be leaking in the cooling water intake or at the propeller shaft seals, I dont see how it could take 8 months to fix unless there is a significant design flaw. >>>>>

I second this notion.

It sounds like Nutuks story is too far fetched, exaggerated to its full length, much like his claims on Sabra 3 when there are Sabra I and II operational in Israel

 
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G/T unity
(Login hellenas)
WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 9:28 AM 

Honestly i am amazing by this self-judgment air that blows in the forum.

Nice move nutuk writing about bad news coming from your country.


Anyway , we have yet to see some link that give a little more credit to your claims about the ship man.

"Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,

that here obedient to their laws we lie"
[linked image]



 
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(Login Deccal-Akinci)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 9:29 AM 

Might be Nutuks way of Fun,to see greek reaction.,must admit it has been generally subdued funny enough.
As i have not heard it on any news.

In anycase we build ships all the time,and put motors in them,what was so fundementally different this tme?

 
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ayvaz
(Login tigintimur)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 9:50 AM 

oh boy... this is sh!t. there is a slight chance of canceling the program now sad.gif, economical crisis hurts turkey a lot.



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O-TOLMON-NIKA
(Login O-TOLMON-NIKA)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 9:58 AM 

I don't know if this link from the Greek side verifies anything. However, it does seem to confirm what Nutuk has posted.

New programs are riddled with problems and are to be expected. For all those who flame about Papanikolis, what have you got to say about your own program?

No system in whatever industry we discuss is without initial problems. Some are more serious than others.


http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.defencenet.gr%2Fdefence%2Findex.php&sl=el&tl=en&history_state0=el%7Cen%7C


 
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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 10:01 AM 

[linked image]

[linked image]


Hehehe, the Greeks took the bait badly!!!
Sorry Andartis, I guess you are one of the editors of Defencenet.

To all my compatriots, there is nothing wrong with the Milgem. The only part which is true is that there is expected some delay in the schedule like Murad Bayar also stated in his article to Janes Defence.

Defencenet don't take "news" which is not confirmed, someone may trick you!

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ayvaz
(Login tigintimur)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 10:04 AM 

you did it nutuk smilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gif

now that made my day smilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gif

baka mutsumes, don't you think we are going to bombard you with the pictures of milgem sailing if propulsions systems were installed smilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gif

propulsions systems even are not arrived yet smilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gif

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Sfakan Warrior
(Login sfakan)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 10:07 AM 

All new designs have troubles at first...we have seen with Papanikolis U214 subs so it is understandable that milgem would have seem similar issues. A little delay in armaments is not such a bad thing for both of us because we dont get so excited and our aggressiveness is limited...thus PEACE prevails happy.gif

"I have problems with virus on my homecomputer so I couldn't scan the article"

Didnt i tell you to stop watching gay porn in risky sites nutuk ???? haha

98th Medical Battalion taking positions for combat!

[linked image]

 
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(Login Faheka)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 10:07 AM 

nutuk: can't wait for what you will come up with on april 1. happy.gif

 
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(Login yasin22)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 10:08 AM 

if this did happen this would of been on all over turkish nationel news any ways

[linked image]

my cool turkish flag wolf sig

 
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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 10:10 AM 

Oh comon Yasin, you all took the bait happy.gif

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(Login Faheka)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 10:10 AM 

I waited for your source happy.gif

 
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O-TOLMON-NIKA
(Login O-TOLMON-NIKA)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 10:11 AM 

Whatever

We will seesmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gif

Truth will come out. If it does not sail on schedule then its a delay in anyones language.

Ohhh Shhyyte I forgot. This is an invisible boat, if it does sail we will never see itsmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gifsmilies1684.gif


 
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(Login sfakan)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 10:12 AM 

^^^ Dont you know that news are censored in turkey? youtube is still censored for example. Do you think such a big military project would have hit the news everywhere? It is probably mentioned but kept in low profile news.

98th Medical Battalion taking positions for combat!

[linked image]

 
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ayvaz
(Login tigintimur)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 10:16 AM 

what are you going to see stupids, propulsion systems are not arrived yet, geez.



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G/T unity
(Login Lewnidas)
Soldiers

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 10:40 AM 

welll done nutuk! u set them up outstandingly ! !!

-----------------------------------------------
cause only we (the hellenes),contrary to the barbarians we do not count the amount of our enemy in the battle.

 
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G/T unity
(Login yannisGR)
WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 11:36 AM 

Has turkish navy some RAM system for milgem on order?
What will air defenece capabilities look like for this 2000t ship?

 
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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 12:07 PM 

According to SIPRI Turkey ordered 400 RAM missiles in 2006.

AD capability of the first 4 boats will be only RAM, second batch of 4 can be different.

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(Login yannisGR)
WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 12:10 PM 

According to SIPRI?

lol

What about DSCA?

 
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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 12:24 PM 

Yeah LOL!

RAM System for MilGem
On February 14, o8, RAM System GmbH [RAMSYS] announced its selection by the Turkish Navy [TNF] to supply a RAM [Rolling Airframe Missile] ship self-defence system for engagement of hostile aircraft and incoming missiles and related equipment and services. According to RAMSYS the contract was awarded on December 31, o7.
Sources have revealed to TD&A Update that the contract, valued less than Euro10 Million, was signed between Aselsan and RAMSYS and covering only the delivery of an RAM Launcher and related electronics to be needed for system integration on the TCG Heybeliada corvette. According to sources missiles will be ordered following the system entegration. Aselsan-Havelsan Partnership, have been awarded an Euro88 Million contract during IDEF o7 Fair for the local development and installation of an indigenous combat management system for the TCG Heybeliada [F-511] corvette.
RAMSYS is pleased that Turkey, a long-time NATO partner, has decided upon the RAM System. This contract is of high strategic importance to us, said Dr. Wolfgang BLASCHKE, General Manager of RAMSYS.
With this order the TNF becomes the seventh RAM Weapon System user in the world after the navies of Germany, the United States, South Korea, Greece, Egypt and the UAE.
The RAM system will be installed onto the prototype vessel of the MilGem programme, the TCG Heybeliada [F-511] corvette, which is currently under construction at Istanbul Naval Shipyard Command and is scheduled to be launched on September 27, o8. The MilGem project of the TNF covers the local construction of a total of 12 corvette type patrol and ASW vessels. TCG Heybeliada is expected to be handed over to the TNF in 11. With this order, RAMSYS is expected to become the first company earmarked to supply systems for the entire MilGem programme of 12 platforms.
The RIM-116 RAM is a small, lightweight, infrared homing surface-to-air missile system, intended primarily as a point-defence weapon against anti-ship cruise missiles.
http://www.monch.com.tr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=111

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G/T unity
(Login Combat_Master)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 12:36 PM 

LOL, nice one nutuk happy.gif

DEFENCENET, what a bunch of air heads.

headlines.gif

 
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(Login yannisGR)
WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 12:42 PM 

LOL

For once,don´t be a troll and show me officiall order,not any stupid link from turco source.
What is the problem?

 
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(Login yannisGR)
WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 12:57 PM 

Once for all,look at this;

"(Washington, September 28, 2007) -- The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Egypt of up to 139 RIM-116B Block 1A Rolling Airframe Missiles (RAM) as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $125 million.

The Government of Egypt has requested a possible sale of up to 139 RIM-116B Block 1A Rolling Airframe Missiles (RAM) with MK-44 Guided Missile Round Packs, containers, support equipment, spare and repair parts, publications and technical data, maintenance, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government, contractor engineering and logistics technical support services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $125 million.

This proposed sale would contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that has been and continues to be an important force for political stability and economic progress in the Middle East. This sale is consistent with these U.S. objectives and with the 1950 Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security.

This proposed sale of 139 MK-116B Block 1A RAM and MK-44 Guided Missiles Round Packs (GMRP) provides the weapons employed by the MK-31 RAM Guided Missile Weapons System (GMWS) included on the Egyptian Fast Missile Craft (FMC). The RAM- GMWS and missile when coupled with the MK-15B PHALANX Close In Weapon System provides the FMC and the Egyptian Navy with an effective defense against helicopters, anti-ship missiles, aircraft, and small surface craft. This capability is critical for the FMC to effectively provide security in the approaches to the Suez Canal and the Egyptian littoral."

http://www.asd-network.com/press_detail/13611/Egypt_-_RIM-116B_Block_1A_Rolling_Airframe_Missiles.htm

This is FMS order.
happy.gif

Only exception is you ordered it from non-american source like german Diehl which is very likely
Again,I would like to see some offciall source.
This should be not to difficult for turkish weapon expert,lol.

happy.gifhappy.gif

 
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G/T unity
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 1:11 PM 

What an interesting OWNAGE style you performed Nutuk ... happy.gif

Congrat !!!

happy.gif



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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 1:14 PM 

Why should I reveal invisible RAM of our invisible boat? happy.gif

By the way check the Greek sources like Defencenet, the Milgem has sunken and is now on the bottom of the Aegean.

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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 1:22 PM 

What an interesting OWNAGE style you performed Nutuk ...

Congrat !!!
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I only put the bait, the wishfull thinking of our neighbours did the rest [linked image]

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Turkiye Turklerindir


 
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G/T unity
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 1:25 PM 

"By the way check the Greek sources like Defencenet, the Milgem has sunken and is now on the bottom of the Aegean."


[linked image]

[linked image]

 
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(Login yannisGR)
WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 1:25 PM 

LOL

This is reason why all defence forums are laughing about turcos.
All your claims are like these above;

Egypt orders 139 RIM-116 worth above 100 million$ while clever turcos order three times as much of the same missiles for "less than 10 million",lol.

happy.gif

Learn to be serious.

happy.gifhappy.gif

 
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G/T unity
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 1:28 PM 

"LOL

This is reason why all defence forums are laughing about turcos.
All your claims are like these above; "

[linked image]

Really ? Would you please post a link about your claims ? happy.gif

For example ""Defencenet.gr ""??? happy.gif

All your threads are full of Turkish defence industry news... and Comments are apparent..

[linked image]

 
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(Login Deccal-Akinci)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 1:31 PM 

Mavro always had hard time reading and comprehending something,from ownage no brain cells left.but plenty of lololols

Why dont you go back and read and comprehend what the 10 million was for before opening your ownage trap.


 
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(Login yannisGR)
WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 1:31 PM 

Indeed,defencenet has become a joke.
Nevertheless I already wasted to much time on you trolls.

 
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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 2:24 PM 

Could that new Bora launcher of Aselsan be used for RIM-116 missiles on smaller vessels like MRTP33? Would create a nice selfdecence capability next to anti ship missiles.

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Turkiye Turklerindir


 
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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 2:41 PM 

By the way leaving fool Gayannis with all his delusions.

Pssst nobody tell him that SSM has offset agreements with RAM System GmbH, leave him wondering where these offsets are for!

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Turkiye Turklerindir


 
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G/T unity
(Login yannisGR)
WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 2:55 PM 

LOL

Nutuk,I warned you often enough.

happy.gif

Now lets look at your proposal of laser radar vs AH-64,last post;

http://www.network54.com/Forum/248068/thread/1191416303/1191831234/Proper+use+of+T-129+or+AH-64+in+modern+battlefield

I really dig your knowledge,please own me once more with it,lol.

happy.gifhappy.gif

 
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(Login Deccal-Akinci)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 2:59 PM 

Cabatli Bro quick look at Yannis last line above.

here i quate him

"please own me once more"

[linked image]
[linked image]

 
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G/T unity
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 3:01 PM 

"please own me once more"

Moronic imbecile...

[linked image]
[linked image]



"By the way leaving fool Gayannis with all his delusions.
Pssst nobody tell him that SSM has offset agreements with RAM System GmbH, leave him wondering where these offsets are for!"


While We are making disscussion about that Germany government will give the permission to order Rim's for our Milgem or not, Now, SSM agreed to take some offsets for RIM Missiles ? happy.gif

What is the reason of 180 degree changing of Germans about military issues ?

Furute UCAV participation offer
RIM offsets
Remove restrictions of German made weapons in Turkish inventory
%80 offset for U-214
Co-developing long range Jammer systems....
Military cooperation and impermeability of technology that is being co-developed agreement between Germany government and SSM...
.
.


[linked image]

 
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(Login yannisGR)
WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 3:08 PM 


"I can feel presence of Grik apaches!!"

[linked image]

happy.gif

 
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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 3:16 PM 

Wow you opened a topic of 2 years ago to proof you have still not changed being a moron.

Recommend you vaseline, helps against buthurd! happy.gif

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(Login yannisGR)
WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 3:24 PM 

@Nutuk

How are off set works for new turkish imperial star destroyer going?
Has Murad Bayar already started talks with Darth Vader?
Will you sell it also to pakistan if you get source codes?


lol

 
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G/T unity
(Login Lewnidas)
Soldiers

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 3:58 PM 

does any turk have a link with the statement of bayar that milgem have problems?


cause right know the administrator of defencenet they argue that bayar stated that milgem have problems with water and propulsion

-----------------------------------------------
cause only we (the hellenes),contrary to the barbarians we do not count the amount of our enemy in the battle.

 
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Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 4:13 PM 

Last year Bayar was stating that the T-129 prototype would be completed in April. It's now May and the helicopter is still on the drawing board. LOL

The MILGAYM is indeed behind schedule but not because of "tests after installation of her main MTU propulsion system" as Nutsack claims. Even retarded turdgays install the propulsion system in dry dock, and they went with a German system (MTU).

Their major problem is that they need to integrate electronic suites and software and have a comparable performance to the surface vessel threats they will face. Either way the anti-submarine and anti-aircraft capabilities of the ship can never achieve a performance significantly better than a FAC, which amounts to a waste of a 2000+ ton ship.

As far as nutsack's "farce", the fact that nobody made a big deal out of real and imaginary issues with this ship should tell you something.

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G/T unity
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 4:58 PM 

An arspain is detected again... happy.gif If It is neccessary to analyse related sentences to present arsepain level, It should be an Armenian one.... Did you realised same things brothers? happy.gif



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Nutuk
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 5:39 PM 

Cuminawhore,

I hope you realize the stupidity level you are uttering. Which FAC has ASW ability or is a dedicated sub hunter? Does a FAC carry an ASW helicopter? Does it have fix and towed sonar aboard?

The only thing dumbass Greeks like you utter is "our super Vita has also RAM and 76mm cannon, thus same capability as Milgem!" It's a matter of intellectual level Cuminawhore, the level of whores was never very high so don't bother yourself happy.gif

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Turkiye Turklerindir


 
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G/T unity
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Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 5:48 PM 

Its a well known fact that Turks dont have big succese with designing ships after all.
In the late 70's they builded 2 ASW corvets to counter Greek T-209 subs, both ships failed miserably and one sunk after it exploded in the Aegean. Also lets not forget about the crappy Berk frigates they made in the same period.
Why would Milgem differ, even if they import the most critical stuffs?

 
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Nutuk
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 6:01 PM 

That'a a difference like day and night. happy.gif

In the 70'ties Turkey was like Greece, no industry at all. Also about the same amount of a few crappy shipyards like Greece, today we have about 120 shipyards.

But please be our guest and dream that the Milgem is resting at the bottom of the Aegean

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G/T unity
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Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 6:06 PM 

If you don't send it to Aegean floor with your poor building skills, we will give you a hand. All you have to do is let it sail among the islands. Even our villagers with their shotguns will be enough to fill it with holes.

"Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,

that here obedient to their laws we lie"
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TuAF35LightningII
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Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 6:08 PM 

Dear Nutuk,

Such "jokes" may damage our potential Milgem exports to countries like Pakistan, Ukraine, Canada and the Middle Eastern countries.

The "false news" may leak to serious sources and damage foreign investor confidence in the ship.

Let's all try to be more prudent.

 
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TuAF35LightningII
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Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 6:11 PM 

If Lale Sarimalafatoglu bites the bait, it will cause an irreversable damage on Milgem's reputation on an international scale that may cost Turkey billions of dollars in export revenues.

 
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(Login Combat_Master)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 6:12 PM 

Griks have no shame, this thread proves it.

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G/T unity
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Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 6:13 PM 

You fools stop calling it a joke.

It is up on defencenet, and that makes it no joke at all.




"Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,

that here obedient to their laws we lie"
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Nutuk
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 6:15 PM 

Oooops too late! It already leaked to serious sources happy.gif

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TuAF35LightningII
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Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 6:16 PM 

"Defencenet" is a joke happy.gif

 
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(Login yannisGR)
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Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 6:16 PM 

Product of one of 240 turkish shipyards;

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The Redcoats (UK)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 6:17 PM 

Product of one of ?? Grik shipyards;





















































































































































































Eh ?

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Demir
(Login efendi1923)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 6:18 PM 


hey yanni mou

at least we use our ships ha happy.gif

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---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Mustafa Kemal Ataturk



 
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(Login yannisGR)
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Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 6:20 PM 

LOL

Even 80s greek designed & built Samos class ships have same fire power like Milfart;

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Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 6:39 PM 

Nutsack,

I guess you have no desire to stop putting your foot in your mouth, or large cocks up your arse. I'm sure the turdgay industry might be happy with your negative reporting, since they seem to lack justification for the chronic delays.

Where is the T-129 prototype that was promised in APRIL?
Where are the 170 Sabra MBT's?

Which FAC has ASW ability or is a dedicated sub hunter?

If you're a clueless dimwitted moron, that's nobody's fault but turdgay's inbreeding customs. There are numerous ASW platforms that don't require a 2000+ ton hull. Do you want a list? For fvcks sake, Bulgaria (which is your neighbor) operates the 500 ton Pauk class "corvettes". FAC's (like Super Vita and Kilic) have a bigger displacement. If you're too fvcking stupid to know that much, kindly STFU with your ignorance.

Does a FAC carry an ASW helicopter? Does it have fix and towed sonar aboard?

Yes, 500 ton ships have fixed and towed sonars, you mental midget. Since such a small ships does not operate that far away from the coast, there is no practical reason for a helicopter (since it can operate from land). Where are you turdgay morons going to send the MILGAYMs that it needs to carry a helicopter? Alone in the open seas it is an easy target; if it has frigate escort those already have helicopters.

You're such an unemployed midget that you suffer from Napoleon Syndrome.

"our super Vita has also RAM and 76mm cannon, thus same capability as Milgem!"

The Super Vita was designed with a clear understanding of its mission. It is a small vessel with the firepower and speed to attack any surface combatant, and a very moderate anti-aircraft protection level. It will operate in theaters where anti-aircraft protection will be provided by larger ships or land-based SAMs.

The MILGAYM on the other hand offers a much larger target (4x), with no additional firepower, speed, or protection against ANY threat (air, surface, sub). So far there is no indication of a hull mounted sonar, and regardless of what it gets it will be an unproved design. The only thing it has going is the helicopter, but a floating landing pad is not that hard to find.

It's a matter of intellectual level Cuminawhore, the level of whores was never very high so don't bother yourself

The above makes as much sense as your idiotic statement that WATER is a RAM material!!

I'm done PWNDING your ignorant arse, biatch.

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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 8:29 PM 

The above makes as much sense as your idiotic statement that WATER is a RAM material!!
-----------------------------

In fact yeah water is a RAM material Einstein! Water happens to have 80x the absorbance of air!
Why do you think nobody tries to locate a submarine with radar dumb dumb! happy.gif

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(Login keminadore)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 8:50 PM 

Honestly Nutsack, how retarded are you?

If doppler radar can detect water molecules from hundred of miles away, and this is how just about every meteorological service tracks weather, honestly... HOW FVCKING STUPID ARE YOU?
I could go on to "blow your mind" about ground penetrating radar and how it can locate WATER, but what's the point with a simpleton like you?

I guess you got PWND so badly you couldn't even respond before. Damn you must feel like a big dumb b:tch.

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The Redcoats (UK)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 8:51 PM 

Are we going to use water to enhance MILGEM's stealth characteristics by mimicking the seas infrared signature ?

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Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 9:02 PM 

Are you asking Nutsack the clueless wonder?
Modern designs used water to cool the exhaust, and some new ones pipe it near the water line after first cooling.
The MILGAYM has a stack in the middle, so at best it spays water to cool it off.
The only anti-ship missile that Greece employs with IR is the Penguin.

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Nutuk
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 9:09 PM 

Kemiwhore baby shake those breasts, since you obviously have more breast than brain.
Ofcourse waterclouds are detectable cos they cause blind spots for certain frequencies that are translated by the radar processing as clouds. Take attention that clouds (vapor) has a different absorbtion than liquid water!

And yeah tell me about GPR radars, I am interested to listen to your knowledge since I am designing a GPR radar!

And breasts for brain explain to me why it is not possible to detect submarines with radar while you are at it!

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The Redcoats (UK)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 9:19 PM 

I meant something like this

The Active Hull Cooling (AHC) system automatically controls the temperature of the ship skin in order to minimize the susceptibility of the ship to IR guided missiles. The AHC system augments the NBC water wash system by providing full wash-down of the ship structure.

The AHC system is comprised of the following main components:

* Hull temperature sensors;

* Ambient environment sensors;

* Water flow control valves, actuators, and sensors;

* Four types of water sprinklers, including the custom designed Davis fan nozzle for spraying hull surfaces;

* The Onboard Signature Manager (OSM).

Benefits of the AHC system:

* Full coverage of ship surface reduces IR signature from otherwise untreated sun-heated surfaces;

* Automatic control greatly simplifies hull cooling task for ship operator;

* System can be configured to only be activated in threat situations;

* Integrated with the ship machinery control system to ensure that fire and NBC systems take priority.

[linked image] [linked image] [linked image]


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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 9:32 PM 

Yes the Milgem is using IR-signature reduction techniques, but I am not sure if water is used. For the exaust they have developed a cooling system.

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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 10:52 PM 

lol this is way too funny dumb gayreeks got pwned [linked image]

__________________________________________________

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[linked image]
TAI TIHA

 
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G/T unity
(Login hellenas)
WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 10:58 PM 

Turkish sailors , applying RAM and IR reducing coating on MILGEM.



IMG_5251.JPG

"Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,

that here obedient to their laws we lie"
[linked image]



 
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(Login keminadore)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 12 2009, 11:01 PM 

And yeah tell me about GPR radars, I am interested to listen to your knowledge since I am designing a GPR radar!

I think you have too much time on your hands due to being a welfare queen. If you had a clue about the subject you'd know about the reflection rates of water which certainly don't make it a radar absorbing (RAM) material.

Still clueless? Here are some sources you mental midget:

Curtin University : http://www.geophysics.curtin.edu.au/testweb/InFocus/GPR/gpr.htm
The greater the contrast in dielectric constant between the materials, the stronger the reflection. A table of dielectric constants follows:
Air 1
Dry Sand 4 - 10
Wet Sand 10 - 20
Granite 4 - 9
Limestone 4 -8
Dry Clay 3 - 6
Wet Clay 7 - 40
Freshwater 80


UC Davis : http://cstars.ucdavis.edu/classes/ers186-w04/lecture08.ppt
Soil Moisture from RADAR
* Dielectric constant of water is about 80. (sq. root of dielectric constant = index of refraction = 9 for water at longer radar wavelengths)
* Dielectric constants of anything dry dry soil, for example are much, much smaller, generally less than 5.
* Thus, adding water (=80) to anything dry (<5) <b>dramatically increases the dielectric constant of the mixture of the two when measured at radar wavelengths.
* Higher dielectric constants (more moisture) yield dramatically higher RADAR backscatter.

Perhaps these universities need the insight of the unemployed hobbit Nutsack.

why it is not possible to detect submarines with radar

Because you shyt-for-brains, the water surface reflects the radar waves. You might as well use radar against wet cement! Maybe you turdgays will add cement to the sides of the MILGAYM. Don't laugh, but cement-made ships have existed for over 100 years. Maybe you asiatic primates have advanced enough to use 100-year-old technology.

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(Login keminadore)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 13 2009, 12:12 AM 

BUMP for the turdgays

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(Login keminadore)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 13 2009, 12:53 AM 

pwned.jpg

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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 13 2009, 5:58 AM 

You backside of a donkey happy.gif

Go back a few posts of mine and I told you that water has 80x the absorbance of air, and you come back with the dielectrical constant of water that is 80x of air!

Do you even know what that means! Yes water is absorbing microwaves!!!! At least if you donkey have a microwave oven, put a glass of water inside and see how fast it absorbes the energy and begins to boil.

Even rain attenuates S and X band radar frequency signals. Ever heard of rain clutter!!!!

Also with ground penetrating radars, the penetration debth is limited by soil moisture saturation. Do you know what kind of GPR radar you need to penetrate even 500m?

Now go back to what you are good for, swinging titties!




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(Login Dont_Tread_On_Me)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 13 2009, 6:13 AM 

Funny thing is, all the Turks swallowed the load.






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G/T unity
(Login yasin22)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 13 2009, 8:32 AM 

thats what nutuk whants he wants yous to be happey while it lasts but when its put to use it will be like a shocker for you retards

[linked image]

my cool turkish flag wolf sig

 
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(Login Combat_Master)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 14 2009, 12:51 AM 

Ownage of the year. [linked image]

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(Login tezelturk)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 14 2009, 1:00 AM 

nutuk seriously, cok kotu got etdin bu yunanlari, cok psikopat bir kotu.

Ben bile yedim ve korktum

tebrikler

trans: nutuk seriously, you made the Greeks look stupid
well done

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cabatli_53
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 14 2009, 1:34 AM 

[linked image]

Yes... Ownage of the year for not only Greek member of Helenic Hoppala but also some international defence source of Greeks...

It didn't go on so much time to make Greek clean salivas out of their mouths about Milgem.... happy.gif

Congrat Nutuk !!!

[linked image]

 
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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 14 2009, 7:06 AM 

Vre Lewnidas, did you still get no answer from Defencenet? happy.gif

For those who don't know about the ongoing discussions, Defencenet tried to alter their stance after seeing they where tricked. Defencenet now claimed (to save face) that Murad Bayar said there where problems on the Milgem but this had to be confirmed yet whereupon Lewnidas asked for a link where Murad Bayar said this.

Now Lewnidas did you get a sattisfactory answer?

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(Login JJ6)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 14 2009, 10:30 AM 

For all those Greeks who are interested in warfare and defence matters it is known that Defencenet.gr is a joke since day one. There are many more greek defence sites, portals and blogs which are serious and professional in what they do. After all, none serious Greek is registered in defencenet forum, which is a kindergarten for defence-like members. I would say that defencenet.gr forum is just like trmilitary.com/forum. That is of low level.

J J 6 o'clock

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G/T unity
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Soldiers

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 14 2009, 6:47 PM 

yes nutuk i took a very serious asnwer! they deleted everything :D ! before that they told me off for asking here turks for a link of bayar statements. thats the second time they delete some comments of mine which is criticizing some mistake in the portal (the super duper editor was confusing FREMM with formidable).stratigiki used to be a serious and well established magazine but the current editor who is well known (to put it politically correct) for his sympathy in the blue colour and its appreciation for the back stage of theatres.

they are full of ****, the only reason i ddnt even bother to ask them is cause they will deleted me and they are there couple of guys that are interesting to speak with. ooops i forgot that they read this forum and

-----------------------------------------------
cause only we (the hellenes),contrary to the barbarians we do not count the amount of our enemy in the battle.

 
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G/T unity
(Login hellenas)
WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 14 2009, 6:58 PM 

Is it a fact the Defencenet is BS ? Seriously now ?



STRATIGIKI actually used to be a fine magazine, with much credibility, it has been long though since I stopped me subscription, and no long read it a lot. Has it gone crap too ?


Anyway lately I read some other magazines , new to the market that seem to be well written and the editors are of a respectful background.

"Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,

that here obedient to their laws we lie"
[linked image]



 
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(Login yannisGR)
WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 14 2009, 7:02 PM 

The translator Nutroll uses for his greek english translation is quite impressive.
happy.gif

Is it same helena is using?
happy.gifhappy.gif

 
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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 14 2009, 10:22 PM 

Hellenas is me sucker, you still did not figure that out? Once an imbecile always an imbecile happy.gif

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G/T unity
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WAFFer

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 15 2009, 2:30 PM 

And I am nutuk, and we are the BORG.

Resistance in futile, you will be assimilated.

"Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,

that here obedient to their laws we lie"
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(Login keminadore)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 15 2009, 3:07 PM 

Nutsack can't seem to answer and avoids it like the little faggot he is.

I guess you have no desire to stop putting your foot in your mouth, or large cocks up your arse. I'm sure the turdgay industry might be happy with your negative reporting, since they seem to lack justification for the chronic delays.

Where is the T-129 prototype that was promised in APRIL?
Where are the 170 Sabra MBT's?

Which FAC has ASW ability or is a dedicated sub hunter?

If you're a clueless dimwitted moron, that's nobody's fault but turdgay's inbreeding customs. There are numerous ASW platforms that don't require a 2000+ ton hull. Do you want a list? For fvcks sake, Bulgaria (which is your neighbor) operates the 500 ton Pauk class "corvettes". FAC's (like Super Vita and Kilic) have a bigger displacement. If you're too fvcking stupid to know that much, kindly STFU with your ignorance.

Does a FAC carry an ASW helicopter? Does it have fix and towed sonar aboard?

Yes, 500 ton ships have fixed and towed sonars, you mental midget. Since such a small ships does not operate that far away from the coast, there is no practical reason for a helicopter (since it can operate from land). Where are you turdgay morons going to send the MILGAYMs that it needs to carry a helicopter? Alone in the open seas it is an easy target; if it has frigate escort those already have helicopters.

You're such an unemployed midget that you suffer from Napoleon Syndrome.

"our super Vita has also RAM and 76mm cannon, thus same capability as Milgem!"

The Super Vita was designed with a clear understanding of its mission. It is a small vessel with the firepower and speed to attack any surface combatant, and a very moderate anti-aircraft protection level. It will operate in theaters where anti-aircraft protection will be provided by larger ships or land-based SAMs.

The MILGAYM on the other hand offers a much larger target (4x), with no additional firepower, speed, or protection against ANY threat (air, surface, sub). So far there is no indication of a hull mounted sonar, and regardless of what it gets it will be an unproved design. The only thing it has going is the helicopter, but a floating landing pad is not that hard to find.



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Nutuk
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 15 2009, 6:48 PM 

Too bad someone hase phucked your brains out my little whore

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(Login keminadore)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 15 2009, 7:00 PM 

Too bad someone hase phucked your brains out my little whore

Did you inquire to find out which female relative of yours was missing last night?

Back to the point nutsack, will you answer the points raised regarding the MILGAYM? Will you answer about what the T-129 prototype will roll off the assembly line, and when it will make it's maiden flight (in 2009 as Bayar stated)?

If the turdgay monkeys still believe you know shytall about any subject (especially after your "water is RAM" statement), then the whole lot of you need your "brains" examined.

Goble-goble, you turdgay fruitloop.

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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 15 2009, 7:44 PM 

Which part do you not understand when Murad Bayar says the T-129 will have her first test flight at the end 2009 my deluded cum seeking whore?

You have nothing to compare with the Milgem except the US LCS. Milgem is stealth, dedicated sub hunter, has a hull with a degausing system against magnetic mines, has special features to reduce her IR signature and you dare to compare it with the bathtub called supervita? Delusion pure! happy.gif



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(Login keminadore)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 15 2009, 9:27 PM 

the T-129 will have her first test flight at the end 2009

LOL, as I already said, you would come back with a Dec. 31, 2009 date! Since you read the turdgayish language you can understand that he said the flight would be IN 2009 and not "at the end" of it. There are other turdgay sources quoting Bayar that the prototype would be revealed in April. Regardless of any of these claims or statements, WHAT ARE THE DATES?

Even a retarded mongoloid hobbit like you can contact the SSM and ask those clowns what the schedule is for something their boss claims will happen in the next 7 months. Will you do that much sunshine, or are you too busy collecting unemployment checks?

You have nothing to compare with the Milgem except the US LCS.

You are the biggest clown in this forum. Can the administrators give you the appropriate title?
The LCS introduces leading technology that you turdgay monkeys have no clue about. Just the propulsion system alone should prove that to you (to say nothing of the sensors, modular weapon system integration, and just about EVERYTHING else). But since you're used to making cheap copies, you think because they might look alike, they are the same thing (to $500 MILLION ships)!

Anyway, the USN needs a littoral ship with organic helicopters because it will be sending them a few thousand miles away from its shores to fight banana republics. What the hell is turdgay going to do with them? Will the OHP's be providing anti-aircraft protection with their sole launcher of retired SM-1's? LOL
You idiots have 8 frigates that are worth keeping, and you need to operate them in the Aegean against a 300 fighter air force, hundreds of islands with ASM's, howitzers, guns, ATGM, etc. Instead of focusing on anti-aircraft protection, you're acquiring new and used junk that will be sunk within minutes of a war.

Milgem is stealth

Says the midget that thinks water can be used for RAM! Says the leprechaun that admitted he doesn't know what technique is used to cool the exhaust.

dedicated sub hunter

Why do you needed any dedicated ships? What are you OHP's dedicated to doing? Anti-aircraft protection? LOL

you dare to compare it with the bathtub called supervita?

YOU compared the two, and got your arse kicked because the SuperVita is superior (with 1/4th the size). The only thing the MILGAYM will offer (when or if it enters service) is a landing pad. Big fvcking woop, like the frigates, the LST's, the fleet oilers, and the 1000's islands in the Aegean can't offer a landing pad!
The SuperVita is smaller, thus stealthier, is faster, has the best BMS/FCS, and has the superior ASM's. It also has the superior sensor fusion and C4I integration.

In every regard, you're a PWND turdgay tellak.

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G/T unity
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 15 2009, 10:29 PM 

I have watched a documentary about assymetric warfare system projects of Turkey on TV... and The experts have opined about T-129 and TIHA systems there... According to them, T-129 will be real strategic Turkish product with its performance and effectiveness against many threats and countries... According to them, If Turkey wants, We will able to chance the ballance of countries in region with new projects including T-129, TIHA and Altay...etc. That trumps of Turkey can make some countries sick... happy.gif


Thanks Turkish engineers... !!!

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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 16 2009, 6:21 AM 

Re, ms little sunshine cuminawhore,

Quote:
LOL, as I already said, you would come back with a Dec. 31, 2009 date! Since you read the turdgayish language you can understand that he said the flight would be IN 2009 and not "at the end" of it. There are other turdgay sources quoting Bayar that the prototype would be revealed in April. Regardless of any of these claims or statements, WHAT ARE THE DATES?

Now from the link you gavehttp://www.turkolmak.org/son-haberler/atak-helikopterinde-geri-sayim.html?Itemid=6
Translating litterally word for word (not a phucked up google translation! happy.gif): "Sene Sonunda Ýlk Uçuþlar Yapýlacak" = First flights will occur at the end of the year

You moron have still to proof your April claim, I am waiting or are you going to swallow it bitch?


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(Login yasin22)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 16 2009, 6:29 AM 

I have watched a documentary about assymetric warfare system projects of Turkey on TV
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

what where which channel what is the show called give me it

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my cool turkish flag wolf sig

 
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G/T unity
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 16 2009, 1:15 PM 

Relax Yasin !!! happy.gif

"TRT International"... Yesterday...
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Experts have told some of Turkish projects such as T-129, TIHA and Gokturk satellite projects... happy.gif T-129 will be real nightmare of enemies...

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G/T unity
(Login Anesti)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 16 2009, 1:51 PM 


 
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G/T unity
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 16 2009, 3:04 PM 

[linked image]

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G/T unity
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 20 2009, 2:10 PM 

bump for Andartis happy.gif

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G/T unity
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 20 2009, 2:25 PM 

Oppsss, Pump for Andartis !!!


Good Ownage days!!!

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(Login ATAKALP)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 20 2009, 2:44 PM 

Self and Total Ownage...!

 
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(Login Andartis)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 20 2009, 2:47 PM 

Indeed it is...
[linked image] [linked image]

[linked image]



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G/T unity
(Login Andartis)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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May 21 2009, 3:32 AM 

Bump for dumb & dumber...




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Mustafa
(Login _mt)

Re: Milgem faces severe delays after mishap

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July 10 2012, 8:46 PM 


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an epic thread. Kudos to you Nutuk happy.gif


is it this Defence net which claims the 400 free Abram handout? happy.gif




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