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(Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

June 23 2009 at 6:39 PM
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cabatli_53  (Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Turkish SPAAG project... (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS)

42 item Armed vehicles,
14 item Command-Control vehicles will be developed in Aselsan institues indigenously.

-Indigenous SPAAG will carry 2 Oerlikon 35mm gun at the tower of vehicle. Every Command-Control vehicles capable to direct 3 armed SPAAG vehicles.

-Armed Veicles will carry Aselsan-made Tracking (Fire-Control) radar and electro-optic sensors in addition to 2 Oerlikon 35mm guns.

-Command-Control Vehicles will carry Reconnaissance radar to create air pictures to direct armed vehicles towards the target automatically... Aselsan made HeIRKSS command-control and communication software system will also direct all SPAAG system in addition to all air defence platforms which was integrated same software system. Armed SPAAG's will capable to work with different different radar systems involved in HeIRKSS system.

-Sub-contactor MKEK Cansas will produce Oerlikon 35mm gun with AHEAD technology which is cooperated with Aselsan.
[linked image]

-Subcontactor FNSS will provide carriage vehicles, ACV-S Akinci...
[linked image]

[linked image]

 
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Pathfinder
(Login Pathfinder_tr)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 23 2009, 6:42 PM 

Very important system I believe, SPAAG meaning like for example South Korean K30 vehicle?

 
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cabatli_53
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 23 2009, 6:43 PM 

Search and Fire Control radar for future air defence projects of Turkey...

[linked image]

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by cabatli_53 on Jun 23, 2009 6:52 PM


 
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cabatli_53
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 23 2009, 6:45 PM 

"Very important system I believe, SPAAG meaning like for example South Korean K30 vehicle?"

No brother, SSM also call this project like SPAAG but It means "Self Propelled Anti Aircraft Guns"...

[linked image]

 
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cabatli_53
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 23 2009, 6:55 PM 

Every Command-Control vehicles will direct 3 armed SPAAG vehicles.

[linked image]

[linked image]

 
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(Login GER_Mark)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 23 2009, 7:13 PM 

the m113 chassis wont be heavy enough to handle 2 35mm guns, the movements will make it extremely inaccurate




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Napoleon auf St. Helena: "Hätte der Himmel gewollt, dass ich als deutscher Fürst geboren wäre und hätten Sie mich einmal zu Ihrem Kaiser gewählt und ausgerufen so scheint mir noch Heute, dass Sie nie von mir abgefallen wären und ich Heute nicht hier sitzen müsste."

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cabatli_53
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 23 2009, 7:23 PM 

ACV-S is a derived version of M-113 which uses streched chassis instead of original one... and No doubt, Before Aselsan Engineers did not start this project, They had prepared a feasibility work for SSM to prove the effectivenes of that design... I do not suppose that Aselsan engineers fall a fault like you mentioned above...

M-113
Weight-- 12.3 tonnes
Length-- 4.863 m
Width-- 2.686 m

ACV-S Akinci
Weight--18,000 kg
Length--6.380 m
Width--2.946 m

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by cabatli_53 on Jun 23, 2009 7:30 PM
This message has been edited by cabatli_53 on Jun 23, 2009 7:24 PM


 
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(Login emperor-attila)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 23 2009, 8:08 PM 

german boy says true...

l think even 18 tonnes wont be enough for recoliling a pair of 35mm guns..

FNSS should be produce heavier platform for accurate shootings...

lights hulls move too much ..

This is 24 tonnes tunguska equiped with 2x 30 mm guns...Over shaking can be seen in each shooting...

Watch the 38-45 secs..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP-mQIy-jX0&feature=related



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BEST AZZ of HELLASS BC.550.

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(Login Combat_Master)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 23 2009, 8:31 PM 

If a Mowag 8X8 can handle Skyranger then i don't why the ACV-S won't..

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(Login proxima1304)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 23 2009, 8:52 PM 


here is a question for you guys the improvement of Turkey in indiginious solutions mainly in tracking software, electrooptics, sensors and radar is remarkable and an "in progress" no doubt.

But howcome aselsan or mkek or kale or any other national asset has not set out to come up with an indiginuous high RPM gunner so far? Like STAMP for instance, I believe is an oerlikon (or is it?) The same goes for this new project. Benchmarking-reverse engineering-improving R&D is one thing, a direct adaptation of your platform and ur electronics to a readily acquired gun is another. I guess we can argue the same thing for the ottobalera's on kýlýc's dogans and other missile boats (or future ones-MILGEM for that matter)

Showing undeniable presence in elecronics and delivering products is good enough but I would certainly like to see more on means of delivering firepower


 
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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 6:07 AM 

Very good question Proxima,

Not producing indigenous cannons, fire arms is a shame of our national politics. I don't know why but it is forbidden for companies to design large calibre fire arms. MKEK is the only state owned and state licensed company that has right to desig large calibre weaponry, and unfortunately MKEK is (has been so far) quite sh.tty.

So as result of this ridiculous state policy although we have more than 160 fire arms producing companies in Turkey, these companies are not allowed to design and produce anything else than pistols and hunting riffles. Lately only Sarsilmaz got a license for producing Colt riffles under license (only for the export) under strong state control.

--------------------------------------------
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(Login yasin22)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 6:12 AM 

they should at least let these weapons be sold to the special forces at least turkiye needs to come with some kinde military adviser to our current leaders so they can make the right decisions

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(Login Pana071)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 6:30 AM 

I must say that during the years I have watched with envy the Turkish defence industry developing slowly but surely. I know they are not up to scratch with the superpowers Germany, USA and France. But they are making progress.



I also see many greek companies in particular one that i have been following quite closly Soukos Robots AE.This company is amazing and from what i have read and seen on many tech sites seems to be the one from greece that thinks outside the square.


I think investments in home made technology is vital to any country as it branches off into so many other networks such as medical educational and infrustructure.

Does anyone know of any Greek Turkish joint technological cooperation?

Cheers.

 
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(Login TheKhun)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 2:09 PM 

Defense industry is vital in many ways,
1. if you have a potential or political influence, it can bring huge export revenues
2. If you maintain a huge army and already making serious military spending, it keeps the spending at home, enables employment opportunities and boost other sectors with multiplier factor.
3. It feeds a lot of sectors, for ex. when you are building a vessel, you buy goods from toilet makers, to kitchen makers.
4. Since it is a technology relied industry, it leads country's technology level up. As most of you know, many technologies used by civilian purposes in fact based on military technologies.
5. It gives political and diplomatic advantages.
6. In the long run, huge savings in maintenance and operation spending.
7. Weaponry designed for your specific needs enables you to exploit their limits and bring efficiency.


For Turks, the homeland isn't Turkey, nor yet Turkistan. Their country is a vast, eternal land: Turan!
-Ziya Gokalp-


 
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(Login independence-1919)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 2:18 PM 

^^^^^^^Exactly^^^^^^^^

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M. Kemal ATATÜRK

 
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(Login Fatih1989)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 2:48 PM 

Hello First and for most to all . i watched and listened and read but never replied . Any way .

Would they Intergrate any sub systems like Anti Air Missile onto the Spaag project similar to the Russian Tunguska which is a multi function SPAAG both Anti Air gun and Anti Air missle .


Hello to all .




    
This message has been edited by Fatih1989 on Jun 24, 2009 2:51 PM
This message has been edited by Fatih1989 on Jun 24, 2009 2:49 PM


 
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(Login TheKhun)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 3:14 PM 

As far as I know, missile system and spaag will be separate projects , meanwhile, those separate vehicles maybe be integrated to the same command and control unit, radar unit etc...


For Turks, the homeland isn't Turkey, nor yet Turkistan. Their country is a vast, eternal land: Turan!
-Ziya Gokalp-


 
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G/T unity
(Login Fatih1989)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 3:29 PM 

It wouldnt be a really effecicent and really effective system . If it is two different system seperated then you would have to fuel both system and also more mechanice support meaning more cost .

I think there is still time to think about the system . Multi System would be most cost effective and efficent to have both system on one platform .

Or in the other hand if its similar and if it going to be similar to the Tor-M1 which is a great system would be a great idea and a great system to have in place .


    
This message has been edited by Fatih1989 on Jun 24, 2009 3:31 PM


 
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(Login independence-1919)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 3:41 PM 

"MKEK Cansas will produce Oerlikon 35mm gun"

This part makes me sick.

[linked image]

"Independence is My Character"
M. Kemal ATATÜRK

 
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G/T unity
(Login Combat_Master)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 4:40 PM 

"This part makes me sick."

Why ? MKE has always made great barrels..

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(Login Osmanogullari)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 5:42 PM 



[linked image]

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(Login emperor-attila)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 8:23 PM 

"I don't know why but it is forbidden for companies to design large calibre fire arms."

Offically there is no such a kind of limitation for any company. Ýts definetly free..

Also MERT A.S. is one of the major contractor of the panter howitzer...
company produces BREECH of the gun.

Many Private Kayseri companies produces bodies of all MK series dummy
bombs ....

Problem is vission and idiot buerocracy ...








xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


King Leonidas.

BEST AZZ of HELLASS BC.550.

[linked image]



 
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ayvaz
(Login tigintimur)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 8:27 PM 

MKEK is... eeehhh.... we should give it to the greece as a present. the mindset of mkek overlaps with greek idiocy. both side will be very happy.



-----------------------------
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(Login emperor-attila)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 8:35 PM 

do barrels look like 30 mm ?



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(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 8:39 PM 

Bro, MKEK will be leader manufacturing center of Turkey in future.. SSM started paying 300-500 million $ money to modernizate all institues of MKEK... After that work, MKEK will also be an independent institue like Aselsan or anothers with R&D centers, much more modern production lines, qualified engineers...etc.

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ayvaz
(Login tigintimur)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 8:41 PM 

mkek already modernized. they have one of the best machine park in the world. the problem is not the equipment... we wasted our money on mkek smilies0264.gif

-----------------------------
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(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 9:03 PM 

Modernization program has been finished?

Really?

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(Login independence-1919)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 9:09 PM 

I dunno if the modernisation started or finished but i think they need a mental modernisation inside.

I hope to see them as Aselsan, Havelsan, Roketsan etc.. etc.....

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"Independence is My Character"
M. Kemal ATATÜRK

 
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ayvaz
(Login tigintimur)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 9:11 PM 

yup, they have a brand new machine park now. most CNCs are state of the art.

-----------------------------
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(Login sfinaki)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 11:49 PM 

QUOTE

Defense industry is vital in many ways,
1. if you have a potential or political influence, it can bring huge export revenues
2. If you maintain a huge army and already making serious military spending, it keeps the spending at home, enables employment opportunities and boost other sectors with multiplier factor.
3. It feeds a lot of sectors, for ex. when you are building a vessel, you buy goods from toilet makers, to kitchen makers.
4. Since it is a technology relied industry, it leads country's technology level up. As most of you know, many technologies used by civilian purposes in fact based on military technologies.
5. It gives political and diplomatic advantages.
6. In the long run, huge savings in maintenance and operation spending.
7. Weaponry designed for your specific needs enables you to exploit their limits and bring efficiency.

QUOTE END

this is absolutely right BUT military equipment should be superior and no low-tech-junk. you can make money and jobs with other things, instead of reducing the tech-quality of your army equipment.


    
This message has been edited by sfinaki on Jun 24, 2009 11:51 PM


 
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(Login TheKhun)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 24 2009, 11:57 PM 

this is absolutely right BUT military equipment should be superior and no low-tech-junk. you can make money and jobs with other things, instead of reducing the tech-quality of your army equipment.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to Nato standards which our military obligated to conform, it is already impossible to sell something not match NATO standards to our military and Nato standards represents the highest military standards today. This is another important factor for our defense industry , we have huge cost advantages comparing to all other Nato members and also another factor which would attract potential buyers. .



For Turks, the homeland isn't Turkey, nor yet Turkistan. Their country is a vast, eternal land: Turan!
-Ziya Gokalp-


 
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(Login sfinaki)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 25 2009, 12:03 AM 

dont start to compare your "indigenious" products with state of the art equipment...

your frigatte VS modern frigate from those who really can build them
your attack helo VS modern helos from those who really can build them
yout mbt VS modern mbt´s from those who really can build them
...

Britain, USA, Germany are all in NATO, they all build their own tanks but are all of them the same in quality and tech??

same for Frigates and so on... NATO Standart doesnt mean you produce better things...



    
This message has been edited by sfinaki on Jun 25, 2009 12:03 AM


 
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(Login GER_Mark)
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Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 25 2009, 12:38 AM 

[linked image]

this thing looks like its about to fall over even while being on a perfect plain


[linked image]

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Napoleon auf St. Helena: "Hätte der Himmel gewollt, dass ich als deutscher Fürst geboren wäre und hätten Sie mich einmal zu Ihrem Kaiser gewählt und ausgerufen so scheint mir noch Heute, dass Sie nie von mir abgefallen wären und ich Heute nicht hier sitzen müsste."

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(Login yasin22)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 25 2009, 3:19 AM 

@ ger_mark you finde turkish products interesting or you just here to insult them

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(Login Adverse)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 25 2009, 10:02 AM 

have you turks considered the potential advantages of a single 40mm instead of a twin 35mm?

twin 35mm is better suited for close in, low level 40mm (bofors) reaches a higher altitude and if im not mistaken a Bonus or AHEAD round exists for it.

a

 
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ayvaz
(Login tigintimur)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 25 2009, 11:46 AM 

i think twin selected because of increasing hit probability. you know there will be kms between target and AA also target may cruise with a high speed.

-----------------------------
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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 25 2009, 12:33 PM 

The Turkish SPAAG will get AHEAD like ammunition and is purposed for eliminating incomming missiles and mortars.

For VSHORAD Stinger manpads vehicles, for shorad a tender is running, Medium and longrange airdefence projects are in the make.

--------------------------------------------
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Turkiye Turklerindir


 
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G/T unity
(Login yasin22)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 26 2009, 4:47 AM 

why dont they just waite for the altay tank to come out so they can replace the existing tank fleet and use these left over tanks like the chasis of the m60 and Leopard 1 chassis for a spaag platform like the germans did when there leopard 2 tanks came out

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(Login yasin22)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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June 26 2009, 4:51 AM 

ore even much better we can always have twin 40mm guns on the sabra chassis as well i mean the sabra chasis should have enuff waite to handle twin 40mm guns any ways but until the nationel tank comes out

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Grurk
(Login Faheka)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 18 2010, 8:44 PM 

ISTANBUL (A.A) - Turkey's leading electronic defense company ASELSAN and the Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (SSM) have signed a 120.3 million EUR deal.

ASELSAN and SSM signed an agreement for the design and development activities of "Self-Propelled Low Altitude Air Defence Gun System Project" and "35 mm Oerlikon Fire Control System Modernization and Procurement Project", a statement from ASELSAN said on Thursday.

The objective of the "Self-Propelled Low Altitude Air Defence Gun System Project" is to perform the air defense needs of the armored and mechanized troops of Turkish Land Forces against threats which pass the airplanes and long/medium altitude air defence systems.

The "35 mm Oerlikon Fire Control System Modernization and Procurement Project" aims at performing battle management, command, control, communication and intelligence functions of low altitude air defense missile/gun systems.

Thursday, 18 March 2010



    
This message has been edited by Faheka on Mar 18, 2010 8:45 PM


 
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Grurk
(Login dr_okuz)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 18 2010, 11:21 PM 

Nice! another project became materialized!

 
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cabatli_53
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 18 2010, 11:23 PM 

Dr. Okuz...

What do you think about the price, 120 million euro ? It is just the pay of Aselsan or It is the total development money all institues will get including FNSS and MKEK?

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Grurk
(Login dr_okuz)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 18 2010, 11:29 PM 

I think it is the amount of money for both development and several prototypes of 35 mm AAA modernization, modern 35 mm AHEAD like munition, and Self Propelled Anti-Aircraft System and C2 unit. So I belive there will be a procuremnt deal after development.

 
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cabatli_53
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 18 2010, 11:32 PM 

Then, We can call it like 120 milliom euro is to develop prototype 35mm armoured turret system R&D amount with all electronics and electro-optics.

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cabatli_53
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 18 2010, 11:32 PM 

Sermaye Piyasas Kurulunun Seri:VIII,No:54 sayl Teblii uyarnca yaplan açklama.
(18.03.2010)


ASELSAN A.. ile Savunma Sanayii Müstearl arasnda, Kunda Motorlu Namlulu Alçak rtifa Hava Savunma Silah Sistemi ve 35 mm Oerlikon Ate dare Cihaz Modernizazyonu ve Tedariki Projeleri Tasarm ve Gelitirme Dönemi (Dönem-1) Sözlemesi, 18 Mart 2010 tarihinde, 120.326.449,- EURO bedelle imzalanmtr.

Bu açklama Savunma Sanayii Müstearl'nn 18 Mart 2010 tarihli iznine istinaden yaplmtr.""

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Grurk
(Login dr_okuz)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 18 2010, 11:34 PM 

It's just my guess! There is no detail on press.

 
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The Redcoats (UK)

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August 26 2012, 12:29 PM 

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Griks In Despair
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The Redcoats (UK)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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October 13 2012, 7:16 PM 

Concept of a point defence system, not long before we see one for navy happy.gif
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Griks In Despair
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Nutuk
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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October 14 2012, 12:47 AM 

Exactly the same concept as the Rheinmetall skyshield

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Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
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Kommando
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Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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October 14 2012, 2:04 AM 

At Eurosatory 2012 in Paris the FNSS Officisl told me the vehicle will have the same width like BAE´s Armadillo: With this width and lover STANAG Level as BAE´s Armadillo, it will be flotage also !!!.

 
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WAFFer
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The Redcoats (UK)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 2 2013, 8:14 AM 

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Griks In Despair
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WAFFer
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Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 2 2013, 9:03 AM 

even right now ....looks nice ......

 
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vizli
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 2 2013, 10:00 AM 

t isn't looking like 35 mm?

 
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WAFFer
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 3 2013, 12:52 AM 

We should design an indegenous missile like the german LFK NG.

[linked image]


Length: 1,8 m
Caliber: 110 mm
Range: 10,000 m
Speed: Up to Mach 2.2
Weight: 28 kg
Warhead: Up to 2.5 kg



Its like a bigger and better stinger (also moves faster).
ATILGAN PMADS armed with this weapon would be MUCH more useful than the current ones that use stingers.

Any opinions?

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Even as the fingers of the two hands are equal, so are human beings equal to one another.
No one has any right, nor any preference to claim over another. You are brothers.



    
This message has been edited by BluNexus5570 on Mar 3, 2013 12:54 AM


 
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WAFFer
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The Redcoats (UK)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 4 2013, 8:50 AM 

"t isn't looking like 35 mm?"

What's in the Turkish inventory less then 35mm?



Griks In Despair
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Nutuk
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 4 2013, 10:48 AM 

I think this SPAAG turret will replace the Phalanx CIWS on our boats in the future

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Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
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WAFFer
(Login cabatli_53)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 4 2013, 10:58 AM 

That's our monster's single barrel German rival which trials were performed in Istanbul.



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Turk Insani Para Gibidir. Icine Isik Tut Ataturk Yoksa Sahtedir...


    
This message has been edited by cabatli_53 on Mar 4, 2013 11:02 AM


 
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WAFFer
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WAFFer

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 4 2013, 11:00 AM 

30 mm twin

 
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(Login DELIDOLUDELIKANLI)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: (Aselsan-MKEK-FNSS) SPAAG project...

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March 5 2013, 7:21 PM 



watch exactly between 2:39 and 2:40; the gun fire on the flir works very well as flare wink.gif



GREEK ECONOMY: There is no light at the end of the tunnel:

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