The largest order in its history yesterday went to the Turkish Navy signed a contract to acquire six Type-214 submarines from the German Thyssen Marine-HDW!
The economic value of the market not yet known, but sources say that Germany will exceed 2 billion, in the middle of economic crisis and of its neighbor in lending by the IMF!
The commission, of course negate any balance of power in the maritime sector is in the Aegean, this time, since first entering service oplosystima such a high operational value to such number.
Do not forget that the Greek side, the four Type-214 class Papanikolis "made (the latter has already started construction), the homonymous class vessel, based on what has been decided so far by the Greek government will sell at foreign customers.
It used that as an industrial prototype of the shipwright company to eliminate the problems presented by the first class.
The issue is that Turkey is becoming twice ypovrychiako fleet of high-tech vessels and operational performance against Greece.
With the commission takes another form and the underwater threat in the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean plants P.N. surface. Addressing six T-214 is a most difficult business riddle.
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 4 2009, 7:55 PM
You have what Landos?
Last time I checked was that you have only 1 AIP upgraded U209-1200 vs 8 Turkish U209-1400.
Secondly some dumbass Greeks are so dumb they think the Turkish U2014's will be less effective due to Turkish command and control system aboard.
They easily forget that Germans showed them such a huge pricetag to integrate the WASS whitehead Alenia torpedo they had selected. The pricetag made the Greek minister of defence piss in his pants
We on the other hand will be free to integrate any system we like to butheads!
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 4 2009, 7:57 PM
Your detection systems will be FAR less effective than the Greek systems. You can't launch Whitehead torpedoes at what you can't detect, Mongol. You'll be blown out of the water by Greek subs before you ever knew what hit you.
This message has been edited by Landos on Jul 4, 2009 8:00 PM
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 4 2009, 8:20 PM
And how far will you be in advantage Beryoza, while you cancelled the upgrades of your older submarines and the acceptation of the U214's are still a big question mark?
In the meantime Turkey is fully experimenting with designing UUV's (3 of them shown at IDEF). The current UUV's may not be state of the art yet but at least we are enhancing our efforts, what do Greeks do?
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 4 2009, 9:26 PM
They have no reply for that ofcaurse. Because its NOTHING.
Greek defence politics is nothing but a joke today. No vision, no planning of future. A military force cannot be composed without a strategy.
Today greek politicians trying to sign every fvcking agreement to seem sweet to their voters and those idiot voters masturbating themselves without any knowladge.
Poor loosers loosing their future day by day and dunno about that.
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 12:11 AM
Nirvie mate
i am not surprised you cannot smell out a tainted source to save your life,given your over reliance on Ristov as well...
you see, as i am sure in the cesspool to our East, Greece has pro government and anti Government media...now these anti government media sources love to take pot shots at the ruling party...on health, education, foreign policy etc...yes even defense....especially defense net which has a yellow journalist alarmist agenda...its what sells for them....
what counts is Greece has 4 upgraded t-209 1100 subs, will give a basic upgrade to its T - 209 1200's, has ordered 2 more T-209 AIP subs, will get the 4 T-214's, so what supremacy is the source talking about???...
Turkey will replace some of its older subs with the T-214's when they come online in 4-5 years.
By that time Greece will have ordered more T-214's as we have a 12 sub need in our navy....that is more than enough to keep the Aegean Greek....and what you Mongols always forget, numbers are never enough....ability is the missing ingredient, something you guys always seem to lack...
so mate, what is going on, we meeting in Melbourne or what? MY Sister in law is coming from Greece, i want to show her Melbourne....sorry she is cute but married so off limits to the likes of you....Cathy awaits patiently, while you deal with your phobia of assertive woman...
i am sure Connie is frustrated as well, she is just dying to meet a real man, and while i don't like to brag meself, i am no slouch in that department...
give me a shout when your hot to trot for a meet up....
This message has been edited by Thermopylai on Jul 5, 2009 12:13 AM
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 12:20 AM
i am sure Connie is frustrated as well, she is just dying to meet a real man, and while i don't like to brag meself, i am no slouch in that department...
give me a shout when your hot to trot for a meet up....
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 1:43 AM
well cizzler since it appears its all on, why should i play by the rules?
and if you have a decent understanding of English my teasing is aimed at him...i know 6 years of formal ESL classes really doesn't allow you to master the English language, but what the hell i will give you a helping hand....
now why don't you apply your sense of distorted shame to your fellow Turks...then we may grant that some of you big talkers are impartial...
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 3:42 AM
Like I said, he looks almost exactly like Cavafy. If Greeks believed in Buddhism we would have to say that Deman is the reincarnation of Cavafy's body (but not his intellect or poetic ability).
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 7:56 AM
turks think that by having ships that they have a navy,they think that by having more subs that victory is guranteed.
Ok nirvana and nutella answer these questions for me so we can identify your military and analytical credentials.
1.greece has an underwater network of acoustic sensors in the agean that monitors submarine movements.DOES TURKEY????????
2.greece has dozens of naval bases and ports to disperse her fleet or to re arm replenish
HOW MANY NAVAL BASES AND PORTS DOES TURKEY HAVE????????
3.the hellenic submarine programme is well underway.WHEN WILL TURKEYS BE UNDERWAY AND COMPLETED????
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 9:25 AM
LOL
oh Nirvana....
if you seem to think that is me...kudos to you....
i must be rattling your cage for you to desperately try and find my identity.....
so if you if you think that is me, and i am an old member from Spartans site....then that would mean your Emre?...our little Mr Mom, at home raising the kids while Connie goes out and earns your keep....lol
the sword is double edged my friend....
so how is Connie? Can i ask is she keeping up exercises? You know Cathy is trim and fit, she can go for two, two and a half hours in one sitting...she is a tigress...time to get your lazy lard ass into the gym mate....or else you will suffer a cardiac incident when she is through with you....
you know, since i have plowed the road for you, and im a big boy, you may need to take some enlargement medication, you wouldn't want to hear that male ego death knell, is it in yet!!! I bet Connie knows what i mean...
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 9:25 AM
Re Thermopili,
what counts is Greece has 4 upgraded t-209 1100 subs, will give a basic upgrade to its T - 209 1200's, has ordered 2 more T-209 AIP subs, will get the 4 T-214's, so what supremacy is the source talking about???...
-------
I have to correct you here a little bit Crocodile Dundee. Greece abandoned the plans after upgrading the first U209-1200, and is tinking about getting 2 new U209-1400 AIP instead of upgrading the 1200's.
Greece has 4 upgraded (Neptune I) Type 209 - 1100 : S110 Glavkos, S111 Nereus, S112 Triton, S113 Proteus
and 4 Type 209 - 1200 : S116 Poseidon, S117 Amfrititi, S118 Okeanos, S119 Pontos
Only Okeonos is upgraded!
We know the whole story of Papanikolis, no need to repeat it.
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 9:44 AM
crocodile dundee? yep each and every time i go take a leak i wrestle with a monster...
lol
ok Napoleon ,
back to business...firstly, the 2 new T-209AIP will replace a full upgrade of the T-209 - 1200., they will still receive a minor service and upgrade....
as for the T-214's i believe the issue has become one of face between the two parties, the first to blink loses the battle of impressions....whatever problem the subs had has been rectified, they have been paid for over 80% of project cost....
eventually sooner than you Turks will get your carbon copies (good to see you guys follow us once again) ours will be in service to help train yours in the sub skirmishes in the Aegean...lol
not to mention i would hazard a good projection that by that time, Greece will have ordered more to replace older subs....the HN has made it clear, 12 sub fleet need....
Turkey who has SE Med and Black sea can have more subs, it needs them...we have for instance no need to patrol the Ionian...all 12 will be focused on the aegean and Cyprus zone...
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 10:03 AM
You were trolling and attacking for me so long. The only difference is when I attacked it was alot more brutal, Mr. Australian Cavafy.
Anyway I hope you "hot to trot" with NirvanaBlue, you two would make a good pair. The Greek pink press would be all over this, you could finally make Eletherotypia in another vapid piece about Greco-Turkish friendship.
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 10:12 AM
Listen Patriotes! do you honestly think the Turks will actually get their Subs anytime soon.......remember the 1000 MBTs and 145 Helos which evolved into the Leo's and Mangusta which are still on the production line!!, Arms procurement and Turkey do not mix in the last 10 years as constant borrowing from IMF, Kurd problem and international volatility have stalled any possibility of Turkey challenging Greek sovreignty in the Aegean or in the skies!
If it took neon 10 years for us to gain our Subs (and that's just 1!!) then how long will take Turkey??...take the Bullsh*t factor out it may aswell be 15 years with their history....Look at the A400 program 6-7years behind schedule, the F35 which they will not get before 2016 LOL
Greece OWNS the Turkish impotent miltary machine!
"if Christiannity and Turkish occupation hadn't stopped the Greek civilization from its advanced progress in mathematics , chemistry and physics the Greeks could have been to space 600 years before the Americans"
(Arthur C. Clarke)
Adolf Hitler:
"For the sake of historical truth I must verify that only the Greeks, of all the adversaries who confronted us, fought with bold courage and highest disregard of death.. " (From speech he delivered to Reichstag on 4 May 1941)"
6 words for the Turks to remember:-
Eurofighter TBA (Air dominance fighter)
S-300PMU-1 (unrivalled SAM technology)
SCALP (First Strike capability)
Leopard GR2 (Latest Gen Competitive MBT)
ERIEYE (AEW&C capability)
Type 214 (has AIP technology )
Turkey
1200 S 347 Atilay 1976
1200 S 348 Saldiray 1977
1200 S 349 Batiray 1978
1200 S 350 Yildiray 1981
1200 S 351 Doganay 1984
1200 S 352 Dolunay 1989
T1.1400 S 353 Preveze 1994
T1.1400 S 354 Sakarya 1995
T1.1400 S 355 18 Mart 1998
T1.1400 S 356 Anafartalar 1999
T2.1400 S 357 Gür 2003
T2.1400 S 358 Canakkale 2005
T2.1400 S 359 Burak Reis 2006
T2.1400 S 360 Birinci Inönü 2007
Compared with capability in service Turkey is 8-1 ahead of Grikland
Secondly capacity wise the Turkish U214's will be more modern (10 years of technology gap) + much more capable since Turkey will have no restrictions like Grikland to install any system they like since command & control + battle management system will be Turkish.
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 11:45 AM
LOL
@Nutroll
Turcos desperate try to keep up with HN is funny.
When any other U214 customer paid at least 50% after contract (greece paid 70%)turcos will pay 15% to HDW.
I guess this says all.
This message has been edited by yannisGR on Jul 5, 2009 11:46 AM
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 11:49 AM
Greeks were stupid to pay 70% for unproven technology and end up with no subs at hand, for over 5 years. If you think Turkos will get their subs in more than 5 years you should reconsider.
Basically we got no subs and paid the development cost so that Turkos receive fully capable systems.
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 11:52 AM
Bark all you want nakostyturk.
All U214 will be in service very soon,HN also paid further 109 million for the Neptune II programme and the construction of the U209-1400AIP(U214) is about to start.
Before turcos get their first U214 HN will have at least six AIP subs in service.
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 12:01 PM
Btw,translation of above article;
HN chief says that PASOK can come anytime on any HN asset to see 100% full service ready frigates,submarines or any other HN ship to see themselves and stop talking bull**** and commanding their media telling greek people lies.
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 12:02 PM
Let me tell you what the case is. Maybe Greks have paid 70% of the money like you claim but can't find resources for the rest. So Greeks like to drop the Papanikolis and receive the 3 U214 without any other payments, but Hans is pressing the Grik to fulfill her commitments and handover the money and take those 4 subs!
In other words Hans has Dimitri by the balls and says pay the rest or you don't receive any submarines. Let's see how much delay this will bring and I'm sure Hans will charge you interests
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 12:05 PM
You still have not comprehend in what deep **** you are buddy.
Instead only 4 U214 we will soon have 5!
This is more than HN aquirements were till 2015.
And all these full paid for while you try desperatly to find money to pay your 15% for first sub,lol.
Better don´t talk so loud again,long way till 2023,lol,and your economy is going down the drain.
This message has been edited by yannisGR on Jul 5, 2009 12:06 PM
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 5:43 PM
Greece is already a big underdog and it'll get only worse for them.
Let me see:
- We have already active 8 modern submarines and get 6 AIP capable ones as bonus
- Meltem II and III projects will be finished by 2011 giving Turkey 19 patrol/ASUW planes
- 2 Milgems are currently under construction and more will follow
- Indigenous UUV, acoustic sensors, plastic mines under development
- 8 upgraded ASUW capable Perry frigates
- 8 to be upgraded Meko frigates Multipurpose, limited ASUW
- Full Coastal radar coverage in the make
- 28 naval blackhawks
and Greeks think they have still the advantage? Sure!
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 6:17 PM
LOL!
Big words from little running men since 1912.
So,lets say you will find more money than your first 15% to pay for further U214.
Than you will have 4 of them in 2020,lol,still two AIP subs less than HN(IF greece does not order more after 2015)
IF this happens your Perries will be 50 years old,your Mekos will face FREMMs,your super ASW planes are YET useless in case of war,your S-70B wont have any frigate left to support them while your Milgimmick crews
think they are stealthy while only the rotating radar has bigger RCS than any F-16,lol!
Please be our guests.
Again.
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 6:31 PM
Turkey will have more than 4 U214s, before 2020. Why you speculate that their delivery times will be as much as 8 years, presuming that they will receive first sub in 8 years and 1-2 subs every year following the first one ?
Our sub program even considering the recent changes is prone to cancellation any time cause of bad economics that are a problem for Greece too.
Until I witness delivery Christening in Salamis Navy HQ I believe nothing after recent years fiascoes on most minor and major procurements.
Am I wrong fellow Greeks, am I not speaking the obvious reality ?
"Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,
that here obedient to their laws we lie"
This message has been edited by hellenas on Jul 5, 2009 6:33 PM
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 6:33 PM
k?
kkkk!!! kkk, kkkkkkk, kkkkkkkkkkk....
kk. kkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i totally support the turkish war industry and i believe that both AKP and the morons of the army are traitors because the don't push more funds to it.
erdo should cut from useless sectors and privatize many parts of turkish economy in order to find funds to finance the turkish war industry
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 6:57 PM
Reality;
1.Turkey ordered 30 F-16-50+ in 2007.
First payments in 2009,lol,still some 900million to pay.
2.Turkey made deal for 117xCCIP,only some 700 million are paid.
Yet,no order for APG-68(V9).
3.Turkey does "order" for 6xU214 and will pay 15% to start programme when every other customer paid much more,lol.
I could go on but this should be enough.
This message has been edited by yannisGR on Jul 5, 2009 6:58 PM
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 6:58 PM
I have never seen such contempt for self reliance and progress...never have ı seen such regressive attitude to investment in its own capacity. ı guess this may have to do with your national instincts of submission to greater states' agendas and arsenal.
We on the other hand know that we cannot impose our own agenda without self reliance and thus have taken the longer but a more self-assured path to becoming less dependent.
And we unanimuously applaud your overreliance on second hand technology of european powerhouses.
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 7:11 PM
APG-68(V9) will be ordered in time, but even if they don't Turkey plans for F-35, what is Greece planning for ?
Are 100 top notch F-16s good against 100 F-35s? Don't bring up again all the bomb truck sh.it, this is the future USAF attacker we talk about.
Yeah maybe 20-30 F-16 Block 60+ to please the Allies and keep the Falcon in production. Maybe Germans will give us some 20 used Eurofighters or we will order 20 new that will eventually take 20 years to be delivered after us not being satisfied with the final product, you know the drill.
Admit it, there is no planning and no real research in the actually capabilities of our procurements.
"Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,
that here obedient to their laws we lie"
This message has been edited by hellenas on Jul 5, 2009 7:13 PM
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 7:15 PM
@yannis
I cannot agree more but is it enough reason to be dismayed by the steep learning curve and be put down by it.
For instance Yannis I personally know for a fact that Turkish engineers have reverse engineered the sidewinder and harm missiles with satifactory degrees of success and are digging their hatchets on bullseyes in Konya desert. I am a fortunate few to have observed the strikes by indigunous J-DAMS. I am no expert possibly as any one of you here and I am nowhere near to assert that the AIM s and the HARMS are AS GOOD....no nonesense here...but it is a process.
My friend in the TUAF says the only thing that practically abstains Turkey from digging further in or making public disclosers is the close ties with uncle sam.
The downside is some of such duplications or improvements with intel rights contraversies is that the end products cannot be export grade, upside is when push comes to show we would not have to knock on DC for a few more over priced missiles to seal the deal
This message has been edited by proxima1304 on Jul 5, 2009 7:17 PM This message has been edited by proxima1304 on Jul 5, 2009 7:16 PM
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 7:24 PM
Proxima,greece went for "indigenous products" like IFV,A-T weapons,navy ships,etc,etc but in the end R&D costs much more than the products themselves,lol.
With 160billion revenues you can´t spend 2 billion for making fighter engine and further 2 billion to buy 40 of these fighters.
Turkish armed forces have no other choice.
Either they produce low/medium quality half indigenous systems in bigger numbers over 20 years,lol,or they do it like greece and scrap whole indigenous idea buying best systems available from the shelf.
Anyway,greece defence industry is maybe not here but greek technicians are.
What THK does right now HAF has already made many years ago.
Technicians and scientists of hellenic navy are very busy as well.
But this stuff is not for export neither for parades.
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 7:42 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What THK does right now HAF has already made many years ago.
Technicians and scientists of hellenic navy are very busy as well.
But this stuff is not for export neither for parades.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<br>
crap****
gr econ just as much as TR or any other super power ever do not have the luxury of industrial containment meaning producing high tech arsenal and retain for national use alone.
you produce foreign you offset to reduce investment costs
you produce on ur own you market cross borders to leverage further investment.
sorry greece is single handed and is behind by a considerable margin vis a vis TR. Had it not been for 1974 US sanctions we may as well be resorting to unconditional reliance as you do.
I am sure you may have the brain power but you do not have the national programme to execute tangible objectives as we do.
so buying hoovercrafts and not affording the flotation bags, buying u boats but having them confiscated by thysen or whatever bec u are ouf pennies cannot be an option for a state of solid progressive objectives whose future economic ambitions is an integral part of its military capacity.
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 7:54 PM
and as for R&D cots today TR spent USD 500 mln alone and it is rising.
do not forget that what ever our hubris says about our narcistic ego or self image, TR is recently become a full fledged self contained industrial economy (not industrial society necessarily.
After teh fall of the Empire we have failed to be a part of the industrialization race culminated at the WWII. By the end of WWI nov 45 teh RAF was producing 3 times its annual fighter production in 1939.
The economic momentum of such heavy steel industrty to axis and allied economies were enormuous.
So today TR will either pay a dear price as I sincerely think it ought to in R&D or stay inactive and buy from teh shelf as you suggest.
The choice is defined by what you want to become economically. Not necessarily by military objectives alone.
I do not belive there is a right or wrong decision. It is all relative. Think how much greeces situation has changed compared to the times of the great disaster. Note how much you have improved? Do note that greece used to build vessels under western supervision in her own shipyards the same today. The aspects of self reliance of greece I belive is even more alarming then it was in early 20c for now the tech is picking up at an exponantial rate and the gap between asset requirements and national capabilities are opening alarmingly...
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 7:59 PM
@Proxima
Listen to you turks talking about hybris is a funny thing,lol.
Your economy is not able to carry this load.
You will see this very soon.
Only thing you achieve with your "defence industry" is that the gaps between turkish and greek armed forces get bigger and bigger.
This is reason that many greeks love your "defence industry".
Please continue.
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 8:05 PM
you do indeed have a collective soft tommy for self denial
ı guess history will attest to the truth as it always inevitably does and when it does...you are just going to have to contribute more to your western masters to level with a fraction of our fire power
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 8:13 PM
LOL
Again,listen to yourself.
Turkish army has almost no battle ready tank in service.
Most M-series are junk,your Sabras and LEO1Volkans have serious problems,only few AH-1Ws left while your ALTAYs & T-129 will need years to get introduced in big numbers if ever,lol.
In same time greece has some 900xLEO2 and 1A5 & 31 AH-64 IN SERVICE .
We will see when turkish economy will recover to serve grey wolves wet dreams.
This message has been edited by yannisGR on Jul 5, 2009 8:14 PM
cabatli_53 (Login cabatli_53) The Conquerors (Turkey)
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 8:25 PM
As you see, All hopes of Gayreeks about Turkish defence industry is based on time and failure probabilities...
Volkan FCS failure probability
Sabra failure probability
Altay Tank production period
T-129 Atak production period
T-214 production period...
.
.
.
.
bla bla bla
If you really assess probabilities and development periods as a victory against Turkish defence industry, Keep going to be proud with those level loser comments. We are talking about development prosesses about our own products, While you are begging to Russians, Germans and anothers to order something.
Enjoy!!!
Yannis, You like counting the list of your army inventory... Could you please count your army inventory one more time ? It has been too long time that I have not met them any of your comments... I really missed...
This message has been edited by cabatli_53 on Jul 5, 2009 8:26 PM
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 8:48 PM
"Technicians and scientists of hellenic navy are very busy as well"
You are joking right ? You don't really believe that we have some top secret facility where secret weapons are being developed ? Maybe you think we have our little Manhattan project going on inside Penteli Mountain tunnels.
Proxima's thinking is correct and not biased like some known Hoplites in here.
Some recent inventory counting:
Greece using all its utility coppers( if all Hueys work) can carry two companies, while Turkey can airlift over one battalion using its modern UH-60s, SPumas, Mi-17s plus Hueys
Turks will have us by the balls within the next decade.
"Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,
that here obedient to their laws we lie"
This message has been edited by hellenas on Jul 5, 2009 8:54 PM
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 8:56 PM
@Cabatli
I know you can´t understand that reality does not consist of 3Ds and "we will have this and that in 2020" but serious armies plan for reality.
As much leftist newspapers in greece write about how shyte greece does her procurements we still have what we need.
HAF??
Complete!
HN??
AIP submarines service has started,FREMMs order to be made soon.
Greek army?
Not as ready as HAF,not even as far as HN,serious problem with modern transport chooppers,still much better than any gypsy neighbours country.
Many greeks admire turco "defence industry" but same people are totally blind for all fatal problems you guys have.
MESA programe=total failure,rest of airforce with no modern missile,no APG-68(V9) for CCIP,a programe not complete before 2016 in first stage anyway,lol ,army with no tanks and attack choppers,M60 upgrade=total failure,navy which just is ready to pay 15% for first AIP order,lol.
Thre is a huge big gap between NOW and what MAYBE will be in 2020,lol.
I could go on but who cares about reality anyway.
Sure no turco trollz or greek leftists.
This message has been edited by yannisGR on Jul 5, 2009 8:58 PM
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 9:00 PM
@Nakostyturk
Bark all you want turco boy.
Turcos can´t do shyte with all their transport choppers as long as HAF rules.
As onty said,if you muslim boy don´t like it in greece fukc off to your brothers in turkey.
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 9:32 PM
"As you see, All hopes of Gayreeks about Turkish defence industry is based on time and failure probabilities... "
@cabatli
i also "hope" that the moral of the millions of starving turkish peasants will be low watching their generals playing golf while they get butchered by the pkk fighters.
my point is that the average turk was working almost for free in the mighty turkish industries, now he is unemployed and his family starves while the "republic" spends gazillions of dollars to produce almost useless weapons in order to encounter some invisible enemies and the turkish generals and the other high rank officers live a luxurious life that can only be compered with the sultan's wealth.
do u give a fvck?
most of u don't because u don't live in turkey
This message has been edited by Panagiotis.Thessaloniki on Jul 5, 2009 9:34 PM
cabatli_53 (Login cabatli_53) The Conquerors (Turkey)
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 10:09 PM
"my point is that the average turk was working almost for free in the mighty turkish industries, now he is unemployed and his family starves while the "republic" spends gazillions of dollars to produce almost useless weapons in order to encounter some invisible enemies and the turkish generals and the other high rank officers live a luxurious life that can only be compered with the sultan's wealth. "
Really good assessments but Those all above things are also acceptable for not only Turkish one but also all military high-ranking members from another countries. By the way mate, Here is a military forum and We are here to talk about military issues, developments, the latest news and others... If you really want to talk about the confortable life of high-ranking generals of countries, It can also be disscussed by members here under the different tittle of a thread but At this thread, I think, It is not true to talk about Turkish peasants, income level of workers, their working conditions and many other social problems of countries... If you really against arming for a clear future of World people, You are the wrong place to spend your time...
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 10:15 PM
You cannot imagine how funny to read those greek poster's posts. I personally enjoy myself to feel their jelousy.
"Greeks support Turkish defence"
For what?
Greek little brain trying to impose that; "Turks wont be able to manage whole things they claim so will lost many time and money to counter greek defence purchases"
That was the best part to read of this thread and was sooo fvcking funny.
Thank you greeks. Keep up the good work
"Independence is My Character"
M. Kemal ATATÜRK
This message has been edited by independence-1919 on Jul 5, 2009 10:27 PM
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 5 2009, 11:08 PM
"Really good assessments but Those all above things are also acceptable for not only Turkish one but also all military high-ranking members from another countries. By the way mate, Here is a military forum and We are here to talk about military issues, developments, the latest news and others... If you really want to talk about the confortable life of high-ranking generals of countries, It can also be disscussed by members here under the different tittle of a thread but At this thread, I think, It is not true to talk about Turkish peasants, income level of workers, their working conditions and many other social problems of countries... If you really against arming for a clear future of World people, You are the wrong place to spend your time..."
@cabatli
the moral of the soldiers is one of the fundamental reasons of a military victory. talking about the possible low moral of the average turkish peasant the body of the turkish army i think is very relevant. the reasons that can low the moral are also relevant.
Re: Greek source: New Turkish submarines "negate any balance of power in the Aegean"
July 6 2009, 8:40 AM
You were trolling and attacking for me so long. The only difference is when I attacked it was alot more brutal, Mr. Australian Cavafy.
Anyway I hope you "hot to trot" with NirvanaBlue, you two would make a good pair. The Greek pink press would be all over this, you could finally make Eletherotypia in another vapid piece about Greco-Turkish friendship.
------------------------------------
yes i attacked you on many of your positions, cause your a malaka...but i did it alone....i dont need anyone else to assist me...especially a Tourko ...the problem with you Niki is you have deluded yourself into believing your the sole holder of true knowledge in the world...
truth is your pandering a tainted and distorted view of the world...simple....now if it help you to label me a pinko, commie, leftist, liberal, bleeding heart or whatever else little pidgeon hole; that makes your world make sense, dots all your I's and crosses all your T's, who am i to spoil the fun?...go ahead....
as for brutal....? do not confuse WAFF with one of your Friday night sojourns into the red light districts of Athens or whatever city you live in....
an assault with a wet lettuce would have been more brutal than your verbal distortions....the problem is your way too full of yourself....this is WAFF...not some political social discussion forum....reality check mate...
and if you ever even bothered to read what others say, rather than assume their positons and scurry off on your way on those famous tangients of yours...you would know i am no friend of Turkey, i have a more hawkish position on Turkey than most Greeks....
just clueing you in just in case you missed it lol
This message has been edited by Thermopylai on Jul 6, 2009 8:41 AM
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