Are Pakistan missiles, cruise missiles really Pakistani developments or Turkish?


We know that there is an extensive cooperation between Turkey and Pakistan on missiles (and other projects), former Pakistans president Pervez Musharaf was literally called Turk in Pakistan as he received his military training in Turkey and was a great fan of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. With Musharaf our military cooperations where excellent, Pakistan received technology from Turkey to upgrade their M113s , POF got lot of tech from MKEK, Turkey is upgrading Pakistans F16s, promised Pakistan to help with naval technology.

And yet if you look at missiles it looks like Pakistan has the technology, but does she for real?

Just a few examples that sparks big question marks:

The Turkish J-600T (co-developed with China aka B-611)



Turkey already produced this missile in 2001 and it is known that the guided B-611B with 290km reach is developed a few years later and see the coincidence:
The same missile named Ghaznavi pops up in Pakistan in 2004.


Other developments of the same family:
Shaheen 1: reach 750km
Shaheen2: 2500km
Shaheen3: 4000km

And then cruise missiles pop up, like:
Babur: 700km having a turbofan jet, tercom, DSMAC, INS
Raad: 350km INS, TERCOM, GPS


One would ask what is strange about this, cant Pakistan develop them?
Sure Pakistan can develop them, but how is it possible they develop these end products without having developed the ingredients?

Turkey has developed all ingredients, either by Aselsan, Roketsan or TAI. Turkey developed radars, TERCOM, GPS modules, INS, DSMAC, turbofan jets, RAMjets, guidance systems, thermo batteries etc. etc.

In short we have all ingredients and no end product (that have been shown except J-600T) while Pakistan doesnt posses design centers and never revealed development of any ingredient while having developed end products. Strange eyh?

Other striking examples are Pakistan is asking help from Turkey on developing MALE UAVs (like TIHA), on CIRIT missiles, on UMTAS missiles.
Now why would Pakistan ask help from Turkey if they are more advanced in missiles than Turkey?


Could it be that the missiles of Pakistan are developed by Turkey but displayed in Pakistan because we have this ridiculous MTCR restrictions????

And where comes the Roketsan boldness to develop a satellite launch rocket?http://www.network54.com/Forum/248068/thread/1246401383/last-1246481932/Roketsan+has+offered+SSM+to+develop+indigenous+satellite+rockets+for+Gokturk-1%2C2
May it be that Roketsan is the father of the Pakistani missiles and cruise missiles?


If my suspicions are even a quarter of what I wrote above, than Greeks are really in deep sh.t







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Turkiye Turklerindir

Bro, I think you are in the right path.. You have a point there.. I absolutely think that Pakistan have great missile tech but I also think that Pakistan is Turkeys display-window to the world of what Turkey realy have..

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if we would show them with turkish flag we could face pressure in international area meanwhile Pakistan has a legitime reason for having such weapons; balancing india


For Turks, the homeland isn't Turkey, nor yet Turkistan. Their country is a vast, eternal land: Turan!
-Ziya Gokalp-

long live pak-turk co-operations..

off topic but i cant wait for milgems in PN..

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FC-20

does it bother the turklandia asscrowlers than no western nation is producing fire crackers as the above?

food for thought..

(or do you really think that a copy cheap Chinese missiles system from the 60s adds to your defence? )
(let me put it this way it adds as much to your defence as the hercules -lol- system adds to your airdefence-which is most sophisticated that the indigenous missiles of turgay)

In the MSI magazine,I read that Roketsan developed a longe range ballistic missile and they didnt tell anything about it just like the J-600...





We are going to learn new missiles produced by Roketsan in the future probably...

No doubt we are keeping majority of our cards hidden.

no doubt you are promoting every aspect of them 15 years before production ends...of a cheap Chinese missile as the j-600 systme of the 60s..

Did you spend all your time banned making stupid ass pictures to fill in your worthless existence ?

Lets not allow Constantnoise toderail this interesting and informative thread.

Türkiye Türklerindir!

yes dont let the truth hurt you in the face....
which part are you refuting re-tatar-ed?

that is a chinese?
that is a cheaper copy?(well in quality not price)
that this kinds of systemare used by china and north korea only?and pakistaan?
that is 60s techology?

that we can produce it...



It might not be a good system but as we develop our industry we can make a lot more better ones as you continue to buy...

Do you think Ismail Akbay brought over some technology from NASA, he was the lead aerospace engineer for F1 Engine Integration..

Greeks dont know the importance of military industry...


Here you are;a nice video;



http://evrimart.com/projects/atak/atak.htm

Vladimir Z. Dvorkin (August 2002)...

"Missile arms Statues&Development prospects in the Third World countries for the Periodm up to 15"


Turkey has started an R&D to develop a MRBM which has capable to reach up to 2000km with 800kg warhead. Accoding to Dvorkin; The Launch weight will be 14.5-15 tonnes and CEP will be 1.5km. In addition to that, Dvorkin claimed that related MRBM will enter the service in 2010 If the development phrase will be performed successfully...


Above statement can be true.. Take a look Roketsan, They have officially offered SSM to develop a space rocket. (?)


1990' Official Master plan of Turkiye...

2008- Developing a ballistic missile which is capabled to reach up to 500km
2009- Developing a ballistic missile which is capabled to reach up to 1000km ( Note: It is possible to meet some years delay to reach those range )
2010- National launching systems and start developing a low-cost rocket for space
2013- Launching an indigenous space rocket
2014- Lauching an indigenous space rocket with indigenous sastellites...


As you see, All space plans goes in accordance with the time schedule (Gokturk-1,2 , Roketsan's offer for developing a space rocket in time)... If we think that Turkey has reached enough technological maturity to develop a ballistic missile that is capabled to reach avarage 200km in 2001-2002, Why do not we reach the ranges of 1990's master plans for ballistic missiles ???

God help India, LOL!!!!




colours of Kaziranga

@Free_Nation

Bro, this is not an pissing contest.. Every one knows Indias missile abillity and I would say it is world-class..

But in this thread we´re just putting the light on the Turkish missile industry that is improveing very fast and thats very good for us..

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@ T-129 thanks for the site its phucking awsome

That is not important...


But it is a fantastic video...


I can give the link one more


http://evrimart.com/projects/atak/atak.htm

@SUPER OSSMAN- Its common knowledge that phuckistani missiles are not their own but of foreign origin.

They are mainly of Chinese/North Korean origin but now you say its Turkish as well. Could well be, do you seriously expect a country that doesnt even have a rudimentary aeronautical industry and no observatory ( forget space research and technology) to build ballistic missiles?

phuckistanis will need turkish helkp even to build cardboard cut outs of these missiles.

I am not alarmed nor worried, phuckistan does not have it in them to declare war on India and even if they do they cant win against India. Actually i just hope Turkey is charging them the moon for these missiles coz thje more money these mohajir scumbags pay the poorer their country remains.






colours of Kaziranga

I remember reading an article on Hurriyet newspaper several years ago that said the nuke trigger mechanisms were produced in Turkey for Pakistan. May be someone have some info on this..

Pakistan is on a defensive stance at the moment but in time things tend to change as national industries get stronger and more capable as is the case in Turkey..

B611 and the Abdali missile are the same from what I know.






The Ghaznavi is derived from the Chinese M-11.

"I am not alarmed nor worried, phuckistan does not have it in them to declare war on India and even if they do they cant win against India."

The ball is in your court last time I checked.

If Mumbai attacks couldnt push you nothing will. The moment Pakistan mentioned retaliation you suddenly backed off.

I think you guys would better off putting your combined efforts in feeding your population.

^ Fortunately though, nobody gives a squirrel's left nut what you think. Long live Paki-Turk brothership!

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Bir millet, iki devlet.

Your starving masses would .

if we can produce B-611 we can also produce longer ranged ones.

Basic tech is almost same in all solid fueled missile frames . longer ranged ones have bigger fuel tanks and lil bit larger engines.

Currently l cant see a problem fro production of 2000 km ranged and double phased missiles.

But if you dont use nuke warheads long ranged mssiles wont be usefull.





ETERNAL LEADER of TURAN LANDS
EBEDI BASBUG

if we can produce B-611 we can also produce longer ranged ones.
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Couple of years back our defence minister mistakenly revealed before press the existence of 600km range missiles.

The B-611 is basically the improved version of the Chinese M-11 missile (allegedly developed in cooperation with Turkey, probably Turkey supplied the development costs in return for tech transfer)

The same goes for the heavier M-9 missile with 600km reach, Turkey has the technology and most likely an undefined amount of missiles transportable on a slightly modified Yildirim missile transport vehicle.

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Turkiye Turklerindir

long range missile would be verry good for sam site at least

When ever two countries do tech transfer business people forget it goes TWO ways.

Trust me when i say the chinese benefited from our share to them as much as we did from their share to us.
They dont need money the chinese it is not what they are after.
When it comes to critical tech to bake what we both need then a co-operatin happens.
You wont see many nations do business on these matters for the fun of it.
There has to be something in return for both parties in these things.
At least this is what i have been told last year.