"Under the program, the manufacturing, assembly, flight test and delivery of a total of 40 firm (+15 optional) Basic Trainer Aircraft, planned to replace the existing T-37s that are in the inventory of TuAF, will be realized by TAI."

we can build trainers why cant we just build fighters as well god dammit

It's a Korean designed aircraft built with Korean assistance, as seen in the picture:

yeah the guy looks korean to me..


For Turks, the homeland isn't Turkey, nor yet Turkistan. Their country is a vast, eternal land: Turan!
-Ziya Gokalp-

how come the planes were not assembled in turkey as you did with the F16s?

98th Medical Battalion taking positions for combat!

First ones will be assembled in Korea while the rest will be in Turkey.

Meanwhile, our indigenous Hurkus basic trainer aircraft is in progress and we'll see the prototype in 1-2 years if I remember correctly.


Anyone has the latest news on that?

do you think they will have CAS ability like corsairs or broncos ?

someones spend money .
someones are spended by money.

do you think they will have CAS ability like corsairs or broncos ?
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it should have, even US discussing about the need of COIN (counter-insurgency) aircraft like super tucano or AT-6B and using them in afghanistan / selling them to iraqis...
Basically , Hurkus + mission computer + Umtas + Cirit + AselFlir-300T + 20-30mm guns ... it is more than enough both for COIN and CAS..






For Turks, the homeland isn't Turkey, nor yet Turkistan. Their country is a vast, eternal land: Turan!
-Ziya Gokalp-

hurkus murkus bullcrrapus..

its a kt-1t with orkish subtitles...

by 2015 orks will manage to have some descent trainer planes..by 2025 maybe it will much greek advance trainers one on one..

unspecified man-whore ideologizing curt Cobain:"A word of advice, a man should be waxing his chest period "


">

some propelled armed aircrafts.

a turboprop is a valid platform in guerilla war with higher agility, better payload, indiginuous tech ample cheap spareparts...less vulnerable than UH 1 s I say.

I always thought thunderbolt was the right move for air support for our boys on the mountains....on a different note

@proxima

Well said, rather then wasting large amounts of funds on attack heli's that are to chase the PKK in the mountains, less costly and effective prop aircraft.

To bad your generals don't see the advantage of this type of strike aircraft against the PKK. Cheaper to operate then F-16's F-4's and Cobras attack helo's.

well you never know. Hurkus may yet be adapted for such use. columbia, argentine and brazil also get to act up on guerilla warfare and their choice probably is dictated by tangible operational requirements than the whim of a few generals

After the 1st gulf war the americans offered at least 2 squadrons of A10s but our myopic generals declined it?!?!? And now the same americans have modernized a few tranches and the outcome is just breathtaking.

I think that ATAK project italian or zimbabwian dont care is a must go though. The project alone forced our hand to mobilize sources to dress the aircraft from tip to toe, including compozite armour locally engineered for this purpose alone. yes par value is expensive but synergies with other ongoing projects are considerable (on the exports side)

I am a desperate progressive so I do not subscribe to buy from the shelf you can never achive just as well atitude. I am not saying that we can outstrip american learning curve with a single project or two, but 1>0, and there is a 100% difference btw the two. And that matters.

You would figure after 30+ years with the PKK guerilla conflict that such type of aircraft would have been procured or developed by now.

In war or conflicts sometimes the simplest solution is the best solution.

Heck even a cesna type aircraft could be used, beef it up a bit and presto you got yourself a useful aircraft for guerilla style warfare. Just look at the tamil tigers were using the Czech-built Zlin Z-143 light aircraft very crude but effective.

There are many type of single prop or dual prop aircraft add some armour around sensitive area's of the aircraft self sealing tanks some decent weapon packages and the potential is anybody's guess.

Bottom line low cost and effective.


In a conflict with the PKK (example) a pair prop aircraft of these at any time could be flying they can be called upon by ground forces or UAV's doing recon in an engagement zone. They don't require expensive maintenance and can be used on small airfields near the front lines.

Aircraft like the A-10 or SU-25 are flying tanks great to use against enemies that are using armor. They are costly to use and maintain. Prop aircraft are dirt cheap in terms of military hardware.

You would figure after 30+ years with the PKK guerilla conflict that such type of aircraft would have been procured or developed by now.
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we turks are slow learners. Flat learning curve that is.

and the local defence industry is only recently diversified into a barely stand alone capability...you can produce it but can the product be export grade? 20-30 yrs ago the answer was no. Today defence exports are bordering USD 1,5 bln I think...

and in 30 years if the army was sincere in wrapping up the plague of pkk it could as it proved several times that when TSK takes initiative on the field it gets results, but they could not level with political openings there we lost 30 years.

moreover the generals are happy with a semi-combat state of their forces....keeps the hierarchy of combined forces on check and combat readyness at all times...twisted ey??? No it is sick but is also a fact.

a turboprop is a valid platform in guerilla war with higher agility, better payload, indiginuous tech ample cheap spareparts...less vulnerable than UH 1 s I say.

I always thought thunderbolt was the right move for air support for our boys on the mountains....on a different note

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You are right but its not a replacement for Atack Helos, in many cases hover capability is essential..


For Turks, the homeland isn't Turkey, nor yet Turkistan. Their country is a vast, eternal land: Turan!
-Ziya Gokalp-

These aircraft can be useful in guerilla warfare that take place in relatively flat terrain, that's why it is more useful for example in Brazil's jungles, against Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka or in Iraq.

However in the Southeast the terrain is extremely mountainous; there are many deep valleys followed by high peaks, so there is a constant need to hover, and that's why choppers are more suitable for our part, or at least UAVs which can spot terrorist groups. These aircraft will just pass by and will not have a second chance to shoot properly as far as I know. What do you guys think?

Re Electronix,
1) Well said, rather then wasting large amounts of funds on attack heli's that are to chase the PKK in the mountains, less costly and effective prop aircraft.

2) To bad your generals don't see the advantage of this type of strike aircraft against the PKK. Cheaper to operate then F-16's F-4's and Cobras attack helo's.
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1) I differ of opinion, turbo prop fix wing aircraft cannot replace the duties of an attack helicopter, if so the US would have done it. You cannot get as close to the enemy with a plane as with an attack helicopter, secondly the attack helicopters protect other (utility) helicopters who transport commando's, wounded etc. etc.

2) Turbo prop has her advantages when you talk about coin in a small area, but they are worthless if enemy hides in neighbouring countries, than you need speed and range.

Nonetheless I can imagine that when the Hurkus is completed there will be some experiments with weaponized versions but to be honest I don't expect much of it. Since if weaponized simple aircrafts would have been the solution we would have converted T-38 talons for the purpose long time ago.


--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir

@electronic:

"In war or conflicts sometimes the simplest solution is the best solution.

Heck even a cesna type aircraft could be used, beef it up a bit and presto you got yourself a useful aircraft for guerilla style warfare. Just look at the tamil tigers were using the Czech-built Zlin Z-143 light aircraft very crude but effective.

There are many type of single prop or dual prop aircraft add some armour around sensitive area's of the aircraft self sealing tanks some decent weapon packages and the potential is anybody's guess.

Bottom line low cost and effective.


In a conflict with the PKK (example) a pair prop aircraft of these at any time could be flying they can be called upon by ground forces or UAV's doing recon in an engagement zone. They don't require expensive maintenance and can be used on small airfields near the front lines.

Aircraft like the A-10 or SU-25 are flying tanks great to use against enemies that are using armor. They are costly to use and maintain. Prop aircraft are dirt cheap in terms of military hardware. "



Very good observation .

@ nutuk

Helicopters have their role in guerilla warefare some is what you mentioned above. What I am saying that for a very "cheap" solution in this type of conflict environment prop aircraft modified to bring pain on the battlefield nothing more nothing less. Some prop aircraft can carry a hell of an array of weapons that a helicopter can't. Also since these type of aircraft are heck of alot cheaper then attack helo's looseing a few in guerilla conflicts would not hurt you pocket book as painfully as loosing a state of the art attack helo. If you dropping bombs or rockets on guerilla positions is it neccessary to bring in attach helo's, F-16's F-4's and so on. Bottom line $$$$$.

The US is looking more closely for light type aircraft, They are beginning to see a gap in guerilla conflicts, such as Afghanistan. Link posted below a couple of weeks old.

Link: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/IRREG072309.xml&headline=Pentagon%20Explores%20Irregular%20Warfare%20Air%20Units

I would expect to see more developments in prop aircraft.

The new Buzz word the US is using is "Irregular Warfare Air"

I doubt the word "cheap" Electronix.

If you seriously sent a machine (be it helicopter, turbo prop or jet fighter) into battle you'll have to provide it with a protective suite, FCS pods etc. etc. all the things that makes the plane expensive.

Example is the Apache 64D which cost about $25mln bald. but can go up to $90mln when all options are exercized.

Anyway we will see what will happen in the future. According to the defence minister Vecdi Gonul our Hurkus trainer will see first flight in August 2010. Add 3-4 years to that before all tests and certifications are round. So in best case we "could" see an armed version after 2015, which I highly doubt since these turbo props are not suited for our mountainous landscape. Especially full loaded with weapons they will have troubles to reach the necessary hights. We are not Brazil with flat landscape where the armed turboprop has to fly at limited hights over the tree tops of the Amazonas.

--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir

another economic solution. Cessna O2.

it was used widely in vietnam war.

Both side can be armed with gatling guns such as 12.7 or 20 mm .

30mm bushmasters for Under wings And Mk80 bombs.

This aircraft can be land and take off any flat area about 500 meters.

Both side can be armed with gatling guns such as 12.7 or 20 mm .
---------------------------------

nop it cant! the moment of the gattling is so substantial it may even force the plane to a stall...the engine of a cessna will not derive required air flow on the wings to keep it airborn.

but even an SF 260 is a good platform to serve the purpose that granted.

The Argentian Pucara.

l havent meant M-61 vulcans. l meant m-197 or GAU-19 systems.

Even choppers can be armed with them..BTW Cessana 02s has double engines.


Maybe not both side. But l think one system can be integrated board of the aircraft.


m-61 vulcan 20mm



m-197 20mm



GAu-19 12,7mm

You may all be right about propellers as better CAS platforms. But every fight has its own difficulties. You can dive bomb a jungle but you can not straffe a cave with those. For those you need a hovvering craft, that is chopper. For the fight in S.East, you need choopers to bomb the s.hit out off those caves and valleys.

OV-10 Bronco armed with M-197 20 gatling gun.

Eskisehir is able to carry out the factory level maintanance. With the combined effort of TAI one or two Hercules could even be converted for special ops no? Say load it up with multiple RPG launcers(vertical on-hull emplacements) say 2 gattlings rendering simult. cross fire and better yet from altitudes outside the reach of pkk's heavy machine guns...reinforce the lower fuselage with light armor nd night vision capability, electrooptic targeting to determine anything that moves...you highlite the zone and stitch it up for as long as it takes to squeeze the trigger once or twice..

One more reason I forgot is to call the turbo prop armed version out of this time. We shouldn't bother about such and concentrate on TIHA-B like unmanned planes.

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Turkiye Turklerindir

Thxs to blue_shark on MP

GUN CAM ?













ETERNAL LEADER
EBEDÝ BASBUG

ARMED MODEL KT-1 .

l think gunpod has 20 mm gun. KT-1 obviously has CAS potentioal.
























ETERNAL LEADER
EBEDÝ BASBUG

KT-1 to make it's first Test Flight Today
40 (with option 14 more) units will be produced to replace the ageing T-37s. The deliveries will start in 2010 will take 2 years to complete. The KT-1 will feature Indigenous electronics and offset of 20%.

http://www.airnewstimes.com/haber/3950-teknoloji-kt-1-ucagi-yarin-korede-ilk-test-ucusunu-yapacak.html

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On 12 June 1992, a Greek Mirage F-1C crashed during a dogfight with a Turkish F-16 piloted by Capt. Ilhan Filiz.

On 8 October 1996, a Greek Mirage-2000 piloted by Thanos Grivas shot down a Turkish F-16D with a Magic IR missile.

Just two days after that murder, on 10 October 1996 a Greek Mirage-2000 crashed close to Semadirek island after a dogfight with two Turkish F-16s.

Point of the story is: TUAF saved itself two missiles.

i rely like it when koreans say turkiye if you notice the background and it never says turkey

BTW,

Hurkus...

Attention to cockpit please... Looks fantastic...

If you look carefully, you'll notice the 4 small training bombs right under the cockpit. Attached to the very first plane of the line.

Turk Bir Dev