Greece has roughly 2500 M113's and variants which are in a state of decay, they need a structural upgrade very soon.

In Turkey FNSS has already upgraded some 2800 M113 APC and 1100 M113 based combat (ACV) vehicles.

How will Greece handle this?

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Turkiye Turklerindir

Gayreeks are going to beg us to upgrade their obsolete M-113's...

A renewal of an M113 takes between 65% and 85% replacement of parts (engines, rims, tracks, seats, gearbox, etc. etc.), forming almost a new product!

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Turkiye Turklerindir

I hope SSM is going to charge some Turkish firms to develop completely indigenous tracked armoured infantry vehicles with a Turkish chassis... S&H magazine manager told this subject at latest issue of magazine...

It“s a well known fact that both Turkey and Greece is coming close to each other year by year and we can all expect huge modernization and exportsales to Greece from Turkey since we are the ones who have a defence industry..


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M113A2


M113 variant M901





Core question, what is Greece planning to do with the M113A1/A2 variants that have reached the end of their economic life?

Upgrade it to A3 standard giving it a new life? Most of the Greek M113's in current state will break down before reaching the battle range. They are litterally falling apart!

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Turkiye Turklerindir

Even the Turkish M113's on Cyprus are topfit upgraded A3 standard





Strange silence on Greek side! Even Yannis, Kallifagos and the anus shut up!

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Turkiye Turklerindir

l think they try to close gap with bmp-3 s..

Yes partly, but BMP3 is an AIFV and Greeks need also something to replace their approx 2500 M113 APC's (or upgrade/renew them).

I suspect there will be a partly replacement by wheeled armored vehicles.

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Turkiye Turklerindir

Nutsucker, you are such an ignorant and unread mental midget.

The M113's in Greek service have all had various forms of upgrade (all now have diesel engines, night vision, new radios, etc.) in the 40+ years of service. But as much lipstick as you put on a pig, it still remains a pig. As a battefield taxi it certainly can keep doing the job (until the aluminum cracks or corrodes), but that's the extent of its abilities.

The M113/AIFV will get toasted if it gets close to the action. I believe that the Leonidas APC (Steyr 4K 7FA) is the best APC in service between turdgay and Greece, as its steel hull provides protection against 20mm rounds. It also has a lower profile (about half a meter shorter in height).

The M113 will not be replaced in Greece or turdgay (or the US Army for that matter) as there is no pressing reason to do so. Perhaps only if the army units are decreased (troop reduction) will there be a retirement of most M113's the world over.

My ignorant whore, show me M113 "A3" standard upgrades in the Greek army. All of them are either A1 or A2, love it or not they are at the end of their economical life. Even the US conciders upgrading her M113's to the A3 level untill purchasing FCS.

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Turkiye Turklerindir

S@ck KemiSęck !!!

The M-113 is indeed a valuable asset, despite its age it still serves in most western armies in large numbers. Some armies have taken advantage of the situation and upgraded their M-113 arsenal, most notably the Americans with the A3 version and most recenty with improved anti-RPG variants. The Turks and the Australians have also preceeded with upgrades giving new life to these old-timers. However, the Turks used in the past low-quality aluminium armor plates for their Nurol YPR-765's and I am not sure if this problem was ever solved, nonetheless their efforts are yielding tangible results.

Concerning the huge Greek fleet of M-113's they are mostly older A1 & German made A2 variants, currently undergoing IROAN inspections in the Greek Army factories instead of upgrading. This basically means we only maintain them in living condition without modifying them while time passes and technology advances rapidly. In other words we are preserving 1970's APC's for the 2010 battlefield. Another negative parameter is that they have gone IROAN inspections so many times (engines can only sustain maximum 4 inspections)that we can no longer maintain them and eventually be deprived of their services. Today the Greek M-113 fleet has reached a critical point of structural fatigue and unless we do something tomorrow morning, we will have to withdraw hundreds in order to keep the rest.

There are two solutions: A) Spend 10 billion euros by replacing them with 2,000 new APC/AIFV's B) Extensively upgrade them with new engines, external armor plates, suspensions, thermal sights, etc. with only a fraction of the cost. I think you don't have to be a genious to realize that option B is the only choice.

Exactly pzh head!

You can easily replace a couple of hundred vehicles but thousands of vehicles is a tough stuff.

Turkey upgraded her M113 arsenal and still continuing if I am correct. FNSS is also upgrading 600 Saudi Arabian M113's.
Greeks have to follow suit. They can either chose BAE systems or FNSS (50% of FNSS is BAE systems anyway).

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Turkiye Turklerindir

Unless the Greek infantry wants to follow our Leo-2's with Steyer trucks, extensive upgrade is the only choice. We have many options and the BAe sounds a good one either with the A2Mk1, A3 or E3 variants. Personally I prerfer the German option of the FFG company. They gave great emphasis to anti-mine protection following STANAG 4569 standards.

FFG website.

http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/armoured/ffg/

Upgrading a M113 is a waste of money. Where it really needs improvement is in armor, which is almost impossible to achieve (due to too much weight on aluminum frame, suspension replacement, improved engine/transmission, etc.) If you can't improve protection, everything else is lipstick on a pig.

The Greeks have a 100% diesel-powered fleet, 100% night-vision capable, 100% frequency-hoping radios, and everything else needed to operate the M113 as a battlefield taxi. That's all this vehicle can do.

Kemi, have you ever served in the army?

LOL the kemiwh0re comes and posts his usual BS... This guy will always think positive of Greek equipment no matter what, even if 70 years old.

@VII_PZ_DIV

I have worked for the US Army as a contractor in the field (including active deployments). But I won't go into any details about that.

The M113's in the US military (many from Army Reserve units) do not have any extensive upgrades to speak of. And yet they serve extremely well for the sole superpower.

FNSS is awesome !

Modernised Arab M113

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Kunani, you uneducated clown, are you still researching the role of the Bulgarians on the Gallipoli Campaign? LOL

If the US Army sends M113's (in similar configurations as the Greeks) into combat zones, your opinion on the matter is worthless. The Isrealis that deploy them into urban environments have performed limited add-ons to the side armor (which only protected from 7.62 rounds)

I have worked for the US Army as a contractor in the field (including active deployments). But I won't go into any details about that.
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Means she served as a hooker or pin up girl And she knows a lot about lipstick!



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Turkiye Turklerindir

Actually FNSS used all the technology provided by its mother company, but as I pointed earlier the Turkish alluminium you used was unacceptable. Your FMC-nurol (YPR-765) vehicles can be easily penetrated by 12,7mm rounds. Dutch and Belgian variants built under license can sustain 12,7mm hits both from the front and the side. If you guys used the same alluminium for your T-2/T-3 upgrade program, you have a big problem.

That's not true, FNSS vehicles are tested troughout and even exported to third countries. The ballistic protection level is at standard 12.7mm but can also be uparmored for 20mm.



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Turkiye Turklerindir

Nutsucker forgets to mention that quite a few years ago there was a scandal that received extensive coverage where the AIFV's were proven to be of quite inferior ballistic protection (even a 7.62 penetrated the side armor!). If you think adding a few plates will significantly improve these vehicles, then you're just itching to waste good money on them.

These (and most) APC's are meant to transport soldiers while protecting them from arty and small caliber fire - THAT'S IT. They shouldn't transport soldiers when under direct fire, nor should they follow MBT's at close distance.

Nobody said the M113 provides the protection of the Merkava or Leopard 2A6, it's a fair and simple battle taxi for the troops to protect them from small arms fire and shrapnell of mortar and howitzers.

Now tell me hooker how is Greece supposed to provide 2500 other vehicles to give her troops any kind of fair protection? Even the US did not manage to change it with something better in big numbers how is the fart nation Greece going to do it? You are like the squirrel of ice age, chasing nuts.

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Turkiye Turklerindir

Nobody said the M113 provides the protection of the Merkava or Leopard 2A6, it's a fair and simple battle taxi for the troops to protect them from small arms fire and shrapnell of mortar and howitzers.

Now tell me hooker how is Greece supposed to provide 2500 other vehicles to give her troops any kind of fair protection? Even the US did not manage to change it with something better in big numbers how is the fart nation Greece going to do it? You are like the squirrel of ice age, chasing nuts.

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Turkiye Turklerindir