Almost 14 years afterwards the contestation with military means of Greek property of [Imion] from Ankara, are revealed in every detail the - tragically insufficient negotiation efforts of leading team that it undertook the management of Crisis. Are heaviest responsibilities ascribed in the then minister of Exterior [Th]. [Pagkalo] ([nyn] Vice-president of government with competence, inter alia, the convergence of [KYSEA]), which did proceed yesterday in complete confirmation of confidential telegrams of State Department, that is published in book "? [Imia], the confidential telegrams of [Amerikanon]"? ([ekd]. [Libanis]). The hundreds documents that come in the light of publicity then energies of journalists M. [Ignatioy] and [Ath]. [Ellis], they reveal that the Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs succumbed in pressures of American of obligation of Warren Cristopher so that it is committed for the withdrawl of Greek flag from [Imia], in the first in deed stage of negotiation, that began the evening of 30 January 1996, proceeding in deed in offensive characterizations for the national symbol. It is henceforth confirmed evidently that the formula of disengagement "? n[o] boats, no flags, no men on the islands or in the proximity"? it is permanent character, in other words the Greek side [synainese] in the final selling out of sovereign rights from department of Greek territory (rocky islands Imia) so that it avoids the escalation of Crisis in martial confrontation, accepting the thus Turkish theory [peri] existence "? grey [zonon]"? in Aegean. As it is reported in the book, afterwards the end of crises, the dignitaries of State Department get used they draw up a text with which is valued the American effort and which is characterized extremely confidential. In the case of this crisis of [Imion], the work undertook the assistant minister of Abroads Strobe Talbott. 1. The first reactions of American embassy On 29 January 1996, the American ambassador in Athens Thomas Niles dispatched the following telegram in State Department: "? This Greek-Turkish skirmish with object a uninhabited piece of ground, extent of perhaps two building square, presents elements of comical opera It is obvious that we would prefer be involved in this difference, but from the experience us we know that possibly we do not have this choice. Consequently, I believe that it should we examine the historical file in the degree that allows him our information, so that we determine the international arrangement of [Imion], while it is likely in at some time to need we legally take place with regard to right in this affair "? 2. The Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs for the flag In 02:42 a.m. of 31 January, the American diplomat Kerry Cavano informs the embassy of USA in Athens that, during the negotiation, [Pagkalos] was also placed in the subject of flag, but also in the other big question, that of extension of territorial waters. Cavano wrote following in confidential telegram, that signed Cristopher: Date: 31 January 1996, hour 02:42 From: Minister of Abroads State Department, Washington To: Embassy USA, Athens, Direct delivery Subject: Officially-informal "? In answer in the comments of minister of (Exterior [Kristofer]), [Pagkalos] said that, in speech that hardly it had pronounced in the Parliament, it had repeated that Greece did not have the intention to extend her territorial waters [peran] the 6 (six) miles. It stressed in the minister of (Exterior [Kristofer]) that it hoped that this will have will appease the Turkish concerns as for this point. It said that the Greek troops in [Imia] would withdraw itself on 31 January, but the flag would remain. It added, however, that it expected that the powerful winds would destroy at an early date the flag and that Greece [antikathistoyse]."? "? 3. Congratulating message in [Pagkalo]: it was today transmitted via the message of 17018 State Department ". 3. [T]albot charges [Simiti] and considers gained Turkey Date: 2 February 1996, hour 22:27 From: Minister of Abroads State Department, Washington To: The all European diplomatic missions, Priority. Also: In the CIA, NSA and DIA, Washington, in the Council of National Safety (NSC), All PolAds Collective. And in their: Verschbow, Beers, Tenet and Fried. Subject: Analysis of Information and Research: Greece/Turkey: [Allilokatigories] cross talk for [Imia] "? While the objective of Turkey (previous arrangement) was more limited from the attempt finished fact of Greece, Prime Minister Ciller could declare her victory. The Turkish services of safety enjoy the good publicity of successive successes: first, the pirates of ferry [Abrasia], now Greek "? "? The ad hoc character of energies of Greece in [Imia] and the parliamentary oratory that supported him prepared the defeat of Greece. The Greek forces appear to occupy [Imia] without the approval of Minister of Defence [Arseni], [poso] rather [Simiti], and the consequent defensive policy it was the subject of of bad co-ordination in the frame of Inner Cabinet up to the very little last hours. The promise of [Simiti] in the Parliament on 29 January to maintain the flag in her place was proved annoying weight when it receded from his places. [Arsenis] and (very probably) the military hierarchy appear condemned to pay the consequences [panolethrias] in [Imia], potentially losing their place. (Confidential) [Paroti] the Anchor proposes the dialogue for the disposal of islands of Aegean, Athens denies the discussions frightened under

 

PERSONAL COMMENTS: I opened a topic concerning Pangalos statements in a previous threads where i had my suspicions that Pangalos instead of a coward and incompetent he might have been a traitor too, i changed the title of my thread if you remember due to insufficient evidence, however i pointed out to the Greek members that Pangalos is dirty because his actions when he replied to the particular journalist display lack of responsibility

let us remember that when the journalist had implied  that in case that the Greek chooper had been shot down by the Turks then things might have been different  meaning an act of war, Pangalos avoided to answer and he proceeded saying they were heroes anyway.

so the lack of responsibility of this particular politician, the suspicion that he knew more than he was saying and his role in imia crisis was something which puzzled many of us

at this moment all our previous suspicions confirmed indeed since Pangalos is a traitor beyond any doubt based on the recent American documents where Pangalos cleary agreed to withdraw the Greek flag and the troops from Imia, he also said when pointed out to him the significance of the flag, Let it be taken by the wind

Pangalos also proposed the mutual withdrawal of armies between Greece and Turkey from the Aegean islands, and the Army of Aegean of Turkey accordingly.

Thats what Pangalos had been doing when our military was ready and prepared and especially the navy to hit the Turks, thats how Pangalos was ready and up to an extend he did it , to sell of everything to the Americans including our sovereignty rights, thats how he respected our flag and the lives of the innocent pilots of the hellicopter who were lost during the crisis

Pangalos said that we dont need to militarize the crisis, when he addressed to the proposed actions of the military leadership, if you didnt want to militarize the crisis then why the hell did you send our fleet to the Aegean and the Greek commandos to western Imia? another tragical mistake because if you didnt intend to escalate the crisis then you wouldnt do anything of the short but you did it which means that you wanted to militarize the crisis, and later on you sold everything to the Americans your dignity , your patriotism and anything else that you might had, since you wanted to militarize the crisis from the beginning as it has been proved you should be ready for war too, leaving Eastern Imia unprotected was another sign of your stupidity since as it has been said the prime Minister didnt know that Imia are 2 islands not only 1 and Lymberis didnt do the obvious to send commandos to the second island too , leading us to the suspicion that everything was staged from the beggining.

Now let me congratulate once again those animals who voted PASOK once again so Pangalos could be appointed as vice president as a reward for his excellent performance and his patriotism during the Imia crisis

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

i would like to add some further comments which probably have to be taken seriously by anybody who still has a brain

when the navy was asked why they did not open fire against the Turkish commandos and why our navy remained passive during the occupation of eastern Imia by Turkish commandos they pointed out that no rules of engagement had been given to them by the political leadership

rules of engagement my ass, as far as i know the only rule of engagement is that if your enemy tries to disembark troops on your soil you open fire against him, it is the obvious.

but in order to justify their passivity and their lack of responsibility the military leadership very conviniently used the terminology of " lack rules of engagement" in their favor, the military leadership in this aspect proved to be equally incompetent with the political leadership due to their lack of initiative, if the political leadership is not  aware of the fact that there are 2 imia islets not only one how the hell do you expect them to take action in order to protect both islets?

if the Pangalos refused to participate in the operations command center in order to have a better view of the situation by saying because yes he did say that too among the others, that something like that would serve no purpose since he didnt want to militarize the crisis and a political solution was to be found so he prefered to be on Tv talking shvit when the Turks had disembark troops on Imia, and while Simitis instead of talking to his commanders and using their expertise in order to protect our islets and give a military response to any hostile activity against our country he was negotiating with the Americans the same person who decided to send the fleet in the Aegean as a sign of determination and power.

the military leadership did not take initiative because they were scared to do so, they were castrated by the political leadership and they were under the fear that if they take action without political approval they might have been characterized as instigators of a coup d'etat

well if we had to compare between the 2, the Turkish landing of troops on Greek soil , the withdrawal of our flag and troops from Greek soil, and the supposed coup d'etat which in reality means to ignore the political leadership and take initiatives as their roles dictates them i would prefer our military leadership to do the second during a national crisis.

what needs to be pointed out here is that as i have said many times during the past i dont consider the landing of Turkish commandos as a military defeat not only because of the menial military importance of such a deed since the islet was unprotected and our navy remained passive to their actions for the reasons that i mentioned above if it hadnt been passive the Turkish commandos would be de facto dead however it was a clear political defeat since our political leadership removed our troops and our flag from Greek soil and gave in further in the Turkish demands with unpredictable concequences in the future. In this aspect if a similar incident takes place in the future we might expect the loss of Greek soil if we face the same confusion, and passivity on behalf of the political and military leadership

if the political leadership betrays the efforts of the simple soldier then the soldier has the obligation to ignore it and do his duty anyway under the order of his military commanders, our country should stand beyond any politician and political leadership

thats an invitation of patriotism to those brainless who voted PASOK during the recent elections. i want to believe that they will not betray us during a war with Turkey as Simitis and Pangalos politicians of their own party did during the Imia crisis.  

thats all. 

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

Can you give the Greek link when you paste a machine translation?

Sig:
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Quote: Daily Times(Pakistan): Congressman says bomb Mecca if US attacked WASHINGTON: ...Congressman Thomas G Tancredo, Republican from Colorado, was being interviewed by AM 540 WFLA radio host Pat Campbell, who asked him what the response of the United States should be were terrorist attacks on US cities to take place and were attributable to extremist Muslims. The Congressman replied, ... then we could take out their holy sites. Asked if that meant Mecca, Tancredo answered, Yes.

yes i can give the link when i copy and paste a machine translation, you want the link so be it

http://strategy-geopolitics4.blogspot.com/2009/10/blog-post_7873.html

ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS

How about you underline the important parts?

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How about you underline the important parts?

i dont do favors to Turkish bitches like yourself, this is what it is take it or leave it



ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS