If the USN invaded  the Agean with all its might and glory to wage war against the HN or against the TN.who would in your honest opinion

1.survive the longest.

2.inflict the most carnage.

 only naval assets can be used,that means no airforce or army assets excepts for navy assets that are army or airforce controlled,like landbased ASV SSM,or MP aircraft.

for the purpose of this hypothetical evaluation no nuclear weapons will be used and the combat area will be the entire Agean area,ionian sea to the left as far mersin and cyprus.

 

what do you think your respective naval strengths  and qualities are? and this engagement takes place tomorrow and not in 2050 0r so.

personally i think the first to go down will be the TN and about a week later the HN

as for inflicting carnage on the foe i think once again the HN will suffice.

The question is stupid due to 2 reasons:
1. It is like asking, whether Van Damme or Bruce Lee would win in a fight without using any arms (just legs). Your scenario is like a kid's scenario (how old are you?), it can NEVER happen.
2. Unbeleivable how Greek morons think highly of themselves. OK look, you guys have decent military "for your size", and that's all... Turkey is in a different league and will even further open the gap with its developing defense industry. I'm sure though even if the gap widened as between Israel & Jordan right now (obviously Greece being Jordan), you idiots would still claim that you can compete with us. LOL

wolf,your wrong for two reasons

1.your understanding of the queston,im comparing navys and not all services combined arms,so lets stick to comparing apples with apples.

 

2.i stated my opinion about which navy would be more combat capable but without going into details,its something that i will do after i've given everyone to first state their opinions and belifs.

Who says the USN hasn't kicked Turkish arse in the past?


During exercise "Display Determination 1992" the Turkish destroyer-minelayer TCG Muavenet (DM-357) was hit by live RIM-7 Sea Sparrow surface-to-air missiles fired by the USS Saratoga which was conducting a drill. The missiles struck the bridge, killing five Turkish sailors.

Aietus brother, if the USN invaded the Aegean and the HN / TN tried to intercede, within a couple of hours both Greek Turkish fleets would be vaporized. The HN might last a little longer only because it knows where to hide in the Aegean.

So Turkey Which has the Numerical Advantage and qualitative edge against the Griks will fall First, Huh..

But at-least you admit to your cowardice, hiding among the islands lol..

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On 12 June 1992, a Greek Mirage F-1C crashed during a dogfight with a Turkish F-16 piloted by Capt. Ilhan Filiz.

On 8 October 1996, a Greek Mirage-2000 piloted by Thanos Grivas shot down a Turkish F-16D with a Magic IR missile.

Just two days after that murder, on 10 October 1996 a Greek Mirage-2000 crashed close to Semadirek island after a dogfight with two Turkish F-16s.

Point of the story is: TUAF saved itself two missiles.

Even if we exclude the air force, there's still Naval Aviation to take into account and on that field, USN has a lot to sink both navies in a few days...

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Its a very interesting scenario!!

I think within 24 hours HN and TN would cease to exist with the exception of some AIP submarines.

It would be a suicide to bring major combat ships like AC and destroyers in Aegean.

Without the use of combined arms, the USN would never dare to enter the Aegean.
They would set a perimeter with the use of 2 carrier battle groups south east and south west of crete respectivelly and they would launch heavy ASW and TASMO operations.

Once they would make damn sure that enemy forces reduced to equivalent size of banana republic navy they would move gradually into more shallow waters.

That would take at least 1 month

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"Learn how to control your demons"

Without the use of combined arms, the USN would never dare to enter the Aegean.
They would set a perimeter with the use of 2 carrier battle groups south east and south west of crete respectivelly and they would launch heavy ASW and TASMO operations.
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Right, HN & TN combined against US Navy, what are you people smoking lately?

A single USN carrier group would have enough firepower to decimate both our navies within a few days, the only naval assets that would have a chance of surviving and fighting back would be our subs. The USN is somewhat vulnerable against SSK's which was demonstrated by the Swedish Navy during exercises off the the coast of california a few years back.

I Hail The Flag

Well at least Turkey has Blacksea to retreat...

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I am here to fight back..

Assuming the HN will have a hold of most of the islands before the inevitable the HN is "likely" to have better chances of inflicting "more" damage in relative terms to the USN than the TN.

This presupposes that greeks have mastery of their current SA/SS armanent they enjoy right now spread all across teh islands.

Also presupposes the naval assets have developed unique methodologies of making use of the land masses to their advantage.

In absence of friendly soil the TN will have to suffer relatively heavier loses against the dodecanese in taking them first, before it can create a friendly skirmish line behind them...

It is pure logic the TN needs to establish an overwhelming dominance in naval asset numbers and fire power to sustain an offensive warfare against the HN or whoever the new occupant of the islands is...

The Dodecanese are easy potatoes even heavy artillery or future indig. heavy UAVs or assault helis will do the job to soften hard targets before the infantry kicks in from the sea...but to expand the steel hulk of the armada w/o suffering lethal blows, into a hostile central aegean is a great deal really.

This said who the hell am I to speak...I aint no military expert. fought in real life for as long as 72 ours but thats it.

I just forgot my anniversary lots of female hormone and wrath in the air...I set off countermeasures (promises for a trip to paris) to no avail...A phalanx or an emotional gattling would do the job...

f uck it... abandon ship!

48 hours both navies cease to exist. Light years ahead of both.



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

obviously us navy has best toys. but lets not forget it is lead by a greek. so there is no need to hurry up to state us navy as winner since greeks only leads to lose.

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Considering, your navy has gotten stomped by the Greek navy more than once, your statement can't be taken seriously.



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

@Proxima

_____
fought in real life for as long as 72 ours but thats it.

I just forgot my anniversary lots of female hormone and wrath in the air...I set off countermeasures (promises for a trip to paris) to no avail...A phalanx or an emotional gattling would do the job...

f uck it... abandon ship!
_____



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"Aietus brother, if the USN invaded the Aegean and the HN / TN tried to intercede, within a couple of hours both Greek Turkish fleets would be vaporized. The HN might last a little longer only because it knows where to hide in the Aegean."

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ __

 

I would have to disagree with the vast majority here that say that within a few days if not hours the HN would cease to exist.provided there is adequate warning and not a pearl harbour type blitzkrieg attack the HN can inflict disproportianate carnage for its size and can wage war for weeks instead of days.

if history has taught us anything its that smaller navies can decisively trounch the larger.,we have seen this at salamis,jutland,midway,trafalgar etc.so it can be done!

for the HN it will come down to tactics.for the USN it will be sheer wieght of numbers and firepower but it  will not be a cheap victory for the yanks.

in point form i will list SOME of the tactics that a smaller navy like the HN can use against the USN and the TN alike.

 

1.land based coastal ss asvm(vehicle and trailer mounted harpoons and Mm.40.

 

2.heavy minelaying at every possible chance

 

3.deployment of the AA umbrella on as many islands as possible,this will provide additional protection to HN ships from USN aviation

4.smaller vessels in the agean though less capable than american cruisers can still be more manouverable than a 10000t beheamoth in the confines of the agean,when the israeli eliat was struck by the egyptians it is said the egyptian craft fired their missiles within the safety of their harbour.

 

5.what the HN targets is of more crucial importance than how many she strikes.obviously a carrier is worth more than a frigate or destroyer but what is an auxillary vessel worth?the type that haulls around fuel,munitions and all sorts of provisions that keep the  long ranged USN operating in distant oceans.

the agean is not the expanse of the pacific nor is it less congested than the baltics.there are blindspots at every angle and ambush sites at every turn but just like leonidas with his 300 so to the HN would inflict chaos on the enemy before being eventually overwhelmed.now if the HN can survive longer than the TN against the USN what makes the turks think that the TN would  easily defeat the HN?

The US Navy may lose a few ships to Greek subs, because diesle boats are quieter and in NATO manuevers Greek subs have pierced the US anti sub umbrella. As for surface combatants sheer fire power will in the end prevail. US attack subs would sink many Greek and Turco units. If there was a combined defense of the aegean by Greco-Turk forces the US may suffer more loses but in the end prevail

The US could just stay out of the Aegean, but still the USN will need to be in the Mediterranean which is still very dangerous (but less so than the Aegean). I honestly think the HN and TN could inflict SERIOUS damage to the USN.



When I was young I used to pray for a bike, then I realized that God doesn't work that way, so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness.

zuhahaha we could retreat to the black sea and side with the ruskies

--
http://www.ahmetreyizyilmaz.com/

Combined TN/HN - in our own back tard- I belive we,d do some serious damage to USN
before we both perish.
Long Live KKTC

@KAMIKAZE THE MOD

man if you are giving me an ovation over my suffering I could use a hand...any help infact to dissipate a head-on female assault on my battered male ego...now is the time...

if some of that laughter spills over to my misery in the service, well this is just about the first time I can go as near as to disclose my identity, againt my commanders' strong advise at the time. I am not much of patriot you see. But now that I have put my ass on the line for this miserable country more than several times I vaguely resent the commmon insinuation in this forum that I am making it up.

Most people in this forum make milit service a rite of passage to manhood but I do not take pride in what we had to do to survive up there. So you have your doubts..sorry wont help u there. All I cared when said that I have been in a combat situation was to give a fresh perspective to the deluded idiots of this forum...but to no avail obviously.

^ you should of told her you already had the tickets to paris mate :D

bence kami'de ona guluyordu abi.



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Freedom is never free.

Look at the filthy Zyprians of this forum, oh my. Their country is occupied by Turkey and they are busy writing bs against Jews, Israel and the USA.
Try to get a brainscan, Aietus idiot.



Sig:
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Quote: Daily Times(Pakistan): Congressman says bomb Mecca if US attacked WASHINGTON: ...Congressman Thomas G Tancredo, Republican from Colorado, was being interviewed by AM 540 WFLA radio host Pat Campbell, who asked him what the response of the United States should be were terrorist attacks on US cities to take place and were attributable to extremist Muslims. The Congressman replied, ... then we could take out their holy sites. Asked if that meant Mecca, Tancredo answered, Yes.

dont worry about my health,concentrate on disloding that strapon i slammed in your azz  and bruised the  pharasees

LOL neither will survive for even a day let alone a week

^

oh really?

hows afghanistan going?

Dude you have to understand, a single carrier battle group consists of 2 carriers supported by AEGIS destroyers and Subs and Frigates so on and so forth, One single carrier group alone is more than enough to decimate whatever the Turkish or Greek navy have to offer. in a face to face confrontation neither the turkish or the Greek Navy stand a chance. The US navy alone is bigger than the combined armed forces of major nations including the ones from NATO

your right b2.

the usn will be firing missiles at us and we'll be throwing back confetti.

was that also your reasoning in afghanistan?

Damn dude, you just dont get it, the aircraft from the carriers alone are more than enough to overwhelm anything the Greek or turks have to offer let alone ships getting involved, its a one sided massacre my friend

And please dont compare gorilla warfare to conventional, face to face no one can match the US NAVY or any of the US forces

b2,what you dont realise is that although we will ultimately lose,it wont happen without

american loses.wether you lose 1 ship or a flotilla there will be a cost.At one stage in the pacific

the USN only had PT boats to challenge the japs and we all know that certain large goals were kicked into the japanese net.

i think your smart enough to realise that the darndest things happen in war where the little guy gets a lucky fist in on the big guy and the USN is certainly not immuned from it.

"And please dont compare gorilla warfare to conventional"

 

alls fair in love and war b2,theres more than one way to skin a cat and neither is under any obligation to fight to the others advantage.

Fine agreed there will be US losses but minimal, like i said the aircraft coupled with satellites, AEGIS and the armada of weapons it will barely make a dent unless both Turks and Greeks are backed by EU then it might, just might be a fair fight

B2,have you ever been to the agean?

 

No, never been to the Mediterranean. been to Germany and other parts of Europe

"the aircraft from the carriers alone are more than enough to overwhelm anything the Greek or turks have to offer "

that's my line of thinking too A, except to deal with our subs the US ships wouldnt even need to get close enough for us to engage would they?

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Freedom is never free.

B2,let me give you a heads up about certain aspects of the agean.

1.some of the deepest points of the planet are in the agean.

2.some of the strongest currents and unpredictable moving sandbacks are in the agean.

3.the med is regarded as a difficults asw environment,the agean more so.

4.the agean has more choke points than a WWF match.

there isnt a  single safe haven in the agean if the surrounding land masses are in enemy hands.

Aviator

Damn dude, you just dont get it, the aircraft from the carriers alone are more than enough to overwhelm anything the Greek or turks have to offer let alone ships getting involved, its a one sided massacre my friend
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Why are we having this stupid conversation? The person who started this ridiculous thread is a Greek-Cypriot immigrant from Australia whose only sexual encounter has been with a kangaroo.

As for Greece wanting to fight the US, this is not even an option because we simply can't.

speaking of sexaul encounters,when your anal bleeding stops will you go back to your old login?

What old log-in, pezevengi?

Here, Aetius is jealous and asks to join in the party.

pezeuenki?

your the biggest poutana on here!,what old login?,gee wiz you had a few take your pick!