i understand how you feel , those people are an embarassment to Islam although i hate Islam and Muslims in general i must say that i strongly believe in ethics
if i had choosen to be a Muslim i would respect the values of my religion , there is no point to be a Muslim a Christian or whatever if you dont respect the rules and values of your religion.
ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS
This message has been edited by ontyseas on Oct 17, 2009 5:20 PM
Dolphins dominate (Login proxima1304) The Conquerors (Turkey)
Re: Turkish Islamists of our forum
October 17 2009, 7:38 PM
@Onty
here is a sincere question and I appreciate your candour if you may...
I am not sure if you are a believer of God or not. But suffice it to say that you are...then by virtue of the nature of the "faith" ; Christianity in your example, then you should acknowledge all prophets from Adam through Abraham, Moses through jesus no?
At the end of the day the dogma, the religious establishment teaches us that the book..from the tabloids of moses to the bibles of jesus is the "word of god" and not some mango jango gibberish that Moses or Jesus made out of their bladder. So the point I am making is that if you are a man of faith then you should also acknowledge God's other books including the one of Moses preceding jesus and the one succeeding it.
Now I am not coming from a religious background nor my family had anything to do with Islam or faith in general. And yet I am an ardent believer of God and have been scrupuluously trying to make sense studying sources about Islam and the faith(s)preceding it and I come to realize that Islam virtually orders us to recognize all prophets from Adam through Hz. Muhammed as sheer "prophets" of God, forbids us from overseeing anyone of the original teachings of Moses and or Jesus. In this line of thought Islam further teaches that it is the last divine revelation after jesus UNTIL the descent of Jesus (the mesiah) who will (as Islamic teaching reveals) rule his peoples through apocalypse.
Now so much are the facts and not my interpritation. But myu point is you can find no moslem, a hardliner or a moderate beliver of the faith like myself or any other who falls between ambivalent areas...who will so much as say that he or she "HATES CHRISTIANITY OR JUDAISM" Because at the end of the day this is what our faith orders us, to respect and recognize all those prophets who have been ordained by God's teachings.
So. In this line of thought, and unless you do not believe that faith is a gibberish imrpovisation of some men of considerable political and social inspiration like Jesus or Muhammed...WHERE EXACTLY DOES YOUR DIVINE DEDICATION TO THE ULTIMATE MAKER OF ALL THERE IS (GOD OR ALLAH THAT IS IF YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING ME ALREADY)DEVIATE FROM A SINCERE SUBLIMATION FOR ONE OF GOD'S BOOKS (THE BIBLE) TO THE HATRET OF THE ONE SUCCEEDING IT?
The last time I checked you inscribed the name of Kuran and our prophet on a toilet paper in a despereate attempt to impress upon some of us here that you can flagrantly insult a faith (not my faith per se for I do not have the intellectual property rights to it) but a faith of God for crying out loud.
My mind forestalls at the thought of such senseless fanaticism who can easily write out a miraculous book which has never altered at all. For Islam says I am not replacing the predecessor, it is saying that its followers have deviated from essence of Jesus'faith; the singularity of God vs the Trinity and thus has been sent as a reinstatement of the truth ALREADY ORDAINED IN THE PRECEDING 2 BOOKS.
The same question holds for any other greeks in this forum except **** and anus who should never invoke the name of the "Lord"...
please respond if you are upto the task. If you dont, as I sicerely think not, just dont.
p
This message has been edited by proxima1304 on Oct 17, 2009 7:43 PM This message has been edited by proxima1304 on Oct 17, 2009 7:40 PM
here is a sincere question and I appreciate your candour if you may...
I am not sure if you are a believer of God or not. But suffice it to say that you are...then by virtue of the nature of the "faith" ; Christianity in your example, then you should acknowledge all prophets from Adam through Abraham, Moses through jesus no?
and you shall receive a sincere answer, im an atheist but in my mind when you believe in a particular religion either you believe everything that is written or not there is not an in between situation its just black or white
the same as ethics is concerned, either you try to follow the code of ethics of your religion or you dont really believe in it. when you believe in a certain dogma you dont have the luxury to distinguish what is real or convinient for you, it is an unconditional faith in everything your religion says otherwise you dont really believe.
any believer is commited to follow the teachings and doctrine of his own religion, he does not have the right to choose what he will do or not, thats the price that you have to pay for following a certain doctrine
putting to somebody a label of being a christian or Muslim is not enough , it is our daily life our belief that really make us a believer. if you have even the slightest doubt that some things are not the way your religion presents to you then you are not a believer, a true believer has no right to put into question anything thats my point of view.
I think you are wrongfully generalizing your historical encounters with us the Ottoman Turks and ascribing the prolonged misery under the ottoman rule to Islamic faith.
just like the palestinians are resenting the jewish state. But this does not allow them the luxury of refuting Moses nor his tabloids containing the first ten laws?
at the end of the day the Ottoman Turks did not have the making of "democratic society" which was such a gloomy idea at that particular time anyway. As the ruling imperial power all the Ottoman state demanded was loyalty to the Sultanate...the state would not assimilate, would not ban local faith or languages. But it would fiercly put down any nationalist uprising by vengance of the sword.
These are facts. And you are welcome to resent them yes ofcourse. But what does this have anything to do with the faith?
I think you are wrongfully generalizing your historical encounters with us the Ottoman Turks and ascribing the prolonged misery under the ottoman rule to Islamic faith.
islamic faith as any other faith is a conservative faith if i may so, being a good Muslim does not make you a democrat or anything of the short therefore faith plays a vital role in the behavior of certain people towards other nations.
however to put things in order, our problem is not that you the conquerors of our nation were Turks or the fact that they were Muslims, the problem lies mainly to the fact that conquering other nations by force is something which de facto guarantees the violation of their human rights, the first and foremost violation in this case is that you deny some other people the right to freely exist as an independent country , to have their own administration without somebody else dictating what to do, the fact that the conquerors where Muslims made the situation even worst since it is well known that Muslim societies and nations are backwardish nations which make something bad even worst
you are welcome anyway
ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS
This message has been edited by ontyseas on Oct 17, 2009 8:24 PM
I have nothing against you. I just wanted to point out the degeneration and hypocrisy that roams in Turkey. You guys are just a small example of the situation of Turkey. That was my point.
Be a nice man and try to market yourself to their woman....they're very giving angels....It's been a month since I moved to Basaksehir (if you know what I'm talkin )......man I love it here.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950), Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for Revolutionists"
lol, at least our pakistani friends was a part of a great civilization called sub-continent civilization while you sand monkey turgays never created anything....lol
No one is talking about chinese here so could you please kindly gtfo?
About the main topic I cant agree more. Many people who present themselves to be religious are in fact most intolerant and degenerate of them all. This is all the while they are enjoying freedom and economic benefits of western countries.