Nice picture that I had never seen before- Bad vehicle rejected by Greek Army.

"Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,

that here obedient to their laws we lie"

Decent but not worth its money.You could get 2 BMP-3 for the price of a single Kentaurus.

Actually it wasn't a bad vehicle. It was just to expensive. Too bad.



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

Steel IFV's offer better protection than the aluminium crap that litters most armed forces. Too bad most countries follow the US/Russia in making light vehicles as if they need to transport them around the world. Only amphibious vehicles should be the exception.

That is correct, that is why IDEF has use older tanks , converting them to APCs , thus offering their troops the best security around.

"Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,

that here obedient to their laws we lie"

The IDF has found a way to fit 6 or 8 troops inside an old MBT?, any pics?



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

Fantare, the Achzarit is actually a T-54 or T-55 MBT, which the IDF had captured by the hundred in the 1967 and 1973 wars. The turret was removed, and accommodation for troops was added. The Achzarit is probably one of the world's best armored APC's. The vehicle is constructed from IDF "combat proven" modular armor technology. The redesigned upper hull has rear personnel access. By the way, the Russian Army has recently adopted the Achzarit model - and it is now converting T-55 and T-54 tanks to the BTR-T APC.

That was a great idea by the IDF. Those are ex Syrian T-55's btw, I believe.



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

Kentaurus the epic faillure

I don't see why that ugly thing should be expensive, looks like an el cheapo chigarette box

--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
Power is the ultimate afrodisiak (Henry kissinger)

atleast the Turret looks pretty good.

Any links that say Kentaurus was to expensive?I dont believe it

Because it's a German Kuka turret with 0% Greekishness in it

--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
Power is the ultimate afrodisiak (Henry kissinger)

exactly like most baptised indigenous Turkish weapons...

bahaha...

Nutuk you midget ass clown....

Any links that say Kentaurus was to expensive?I dont believe it
<<<<<<< <br>

Why is it so hard to believe?



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

I find it hard to believe its expensive thats all... Curious to no the unit cost.Any links going around. I believe that since Greece needs many IFV APC etc.. we can built them are selves.

How much would 450 Kentaurus cost?

at least you would give jobs to your own people

Do you think ELBO would throw away the project if it was economically viable?

The Greeks

Kiato, Greece already has finalized an agreement with Russia for the new BMP3. I'll try to find info on the Kentavros for you though, difficult to find though i think.



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

Not every design is a success.

Greek attempted to design an AIFV so what? Turks designed a howitzer, but when a design fails to meet specs and expectations than it is branded a faillure. As simple as that!





--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
Power is the ultimate afrodisiak (Henry kissinger)

Kentaurus interior.

they were to greedy they should of bought this so that there would be work for the people but nope all greeks think about there pockets not there own

Amen to that, yasin22.

but when a design fails to meet specs and expectations than it is branded a faillure. As simple as that! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <br>



In which way did the Kentavros fail to meet specs?





http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

The infanterist on the right carries two RPG-18s.

LOL Fantaros,

Are you going to believe the crap that Kentavros was too expensive?

What is expensive on it? Does it have more features than an M113? It has cheap swing backdoors, cheap box like body configuration, not amphibic.

What the bloody phuck makes this faillure expensive than?

--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
Power is the ultimate afrodisiak (Henry kissinger)

Nutuk when you make a claim that "it failed " to live up to specs, you need to back it the fk up , now WHAT exactly was wrong with it that it "failed" ?let's go chop chop!



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

Because it is very obvious, why would Greece spend money on developing it and than drop it? It obviously failed to reach the specs. Beside one doesn't need to be an expert to tell that the kentaurus is merely an m113 with a cupola analoge to a 50'ties / 60'ties design.

--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
Power is the ultimate afrodisiak (Henry kissinger)

A very decent effort doomed by the r3tarded requirement that it could be fit inside a C-130 (....) Like in case of war our first wory will be to cary force multipliers (lol) like IFVs in a hurry with the massive fleet of cargo planes we have.

I΄agree we should have continued with Kentauros and develope moore sofisticated versions giving jobs to the hellenic companies!
Lakon

in this very last picture, the turret looks different or loaded with different modules.
ATGM or what? anybody elaborate?

Skirted_soldiers, STN Atlas Electronic specially designed this system for the Kentaurus, it's called TOKSOTIS.

@Nutuk

HERE IS AN M113:





DIFFERENT DOORS THAN THE KENTAVRO^^







HIGHER PROFILE THAN THE KENTAVRO^^



DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A KENTAVRO TO ME


Again, can you back up your claim that "it failed to meet specs" or not?











http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

@MANOTAURUS


Aha!, so the KENTAVRO was able to be loaded onto the Hercules eh?, nice pic!



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

Tell me Fanta why was this magnificent peace of technique abandoned when she was a huge success than?

Just air?

Or is it the evil politicians (the same ones who ordered her development?)



--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
Power is the ultimate afrodisiak (Henry kissinger)

Another Steyr Licensed Vehicle.

---

On 12 June 1992, a Greek Mirage F-1C crashed during a dogfight with a Turkish F-16 piloted by Capt. Ilhan Filiz.

On 8 October 1996, a Greek Mirage-2000 piloted by Thanos Grivas shot down a Turkish F-16D with a Magic IR missile.

Just two days after that murder, on 10 October 1996 a Greek Mirage-2000 crashed close to Semadirek island after a dogfight with two Turkish F-16s.

Point of the story is: TUAF saved itself two missiles.

On May 23rd 2006, Two Greek F-16 fighters Scrambeled to intercept two Turkish F-16s that was escorting a Recon aircraft over the southern Aegean, After a short Mock-dogfight the Greek F-16 colided into the Turkish F-16. Turkish Pilot Lieutenant Halil Ibrahim Φzdemir Ejected safely while the Greek pilot Lieutenant Konstantinos Kakkavas died instantly.

On December 4th 2007, a Greek F-16C participated in a night exercise in the Sporades archipelago, the pilot Lieutenant Athanasios Batsaras lost orientation thinking he was gaining altitude instead flew his aircraft into the sea. Athanasios Batsaras body was found latter on by a Turkish frigate which responded to the emergency call.

Point of the story is: Greeks don't know how to Fly.

On June 3rd 2003, a Greek F-16 block 30 Piloted by Captain Theodoros Pliatsikas crashed when a Bird was sucked into the air intake causing Engine Failure. Captain Theodoros Pliatsikas however was lucky enough to Eject and survived the incident with minor injury.

On June 4th 2009, a single seater Greek F-16 block 50 crashed in Ioannina after the plane ingested a bird. The pilot managed to eject from the plane with minor injury.

Point of the story is: Birds 2 Greeks -2 F-16s

Nutuk, so now you're ASKING why it was abandoned. Before you were saying "it failed specs" , so you finally admit that you were talking out of your uninformed arse. Interesting.



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

Nutuk, you're so cute when you're jealous.

yep I'm jealous on failures, I am also jealous on Greeks since you guys are faillures

project are most of time abandoned if they don't meet specs, that cigaret box is worse than the leonidas

--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
Power is the ultimate afrodisiak (Henry kissinger)

"WORSE THAN THE LEONIDAS" , OK NUTUK PROVE IT!



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

Leonidas is in service, Kentavros not!

You are welcome to proof the opposite!



--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
Power is the ultimate afrodisiak (Henry kissinger)

LOL, thanks for admitting that you got bitchslapped once again Nutuk, that was so weak.



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

-Aha!, so the KENTAVRO was able to be loaded onto the Hercules eh?, nice pic!-

That was the ..problem. In order to be light and narrow enough to be airlifted lacked adequate armor and space for the troops inside (and cost more cause of the unconventional alloys used to build it). That requirement should have been scraped from the begining.

So for now at ELBO they need to improve their painting skills cause thats as much work they are gona do on Russian build BMP-3s

@Every poster on WAFF,

Please note how Manotaurus' pictures are fitted perfectly into the screen. No body likes to scroll horizontally to see the entire image.

Good job Manotaurus.

____________________________________________

If they know what the problems were, why doesn't ELBO redesign it? Forget about putting it in C-130s, make it bigger, add more armor, and (I would suggest) add some ATGMs. If you have the basis of a good design, but it has some flaws, don't just give up. Fix it. Or use what you learned from this design to develop better ones.

hehehe I love it how Greeks can own one with a failed project.

I love also how you guys own us daily above the Greek islands, how you owned us on Cyprus and Kardak

Happy continuations with those great ownages.



--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
Power is the ultimate afrodisiak (Henry kissinger)

I agree with Yasin 22 and the others, it should have been built to create jobs.

Found some info......it was very hard to find

"The ELBO Kentaurus is a highly advanced IFV indigenously developed in Greece"

http://www.military-today.com/apc/elbo_kentaurus.htm


"The MoD also has
assigned ELVO the manufacturing of 150 new IAFV (Kentavros) armored vehicles with an option for another 130
vehicles. The initial contract is worth 410m with the option contract valued at 350m"

http://www.euro2day.gr/dm_documents/artionmiti_3007.pdf

Kentaurus is a highly advanced IFV
--------------

Yes it is with the latest standards of stealth, completely invisible!

--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
Power is the ultimate afrodisiak (Henry kissinger)

@KIATO,

thanks for finding the info on the KENTAVRO. Obviously IT HAD NOT "failed specs" and was canceled due to costs, here is a paragraph which is located at the link you posted:



"The Kentaurus IFV was developed in Greece by ELBO as a private venture. It was introduces in 1998. At that time a need for new infantry fighting vehicle emerged in the Greek Army. Vehicle was successfully tested by the Greek Army and was approved, however no production orders were placed, mainly because of high _production costs_. Russian BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle was ordered instead.




http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

Type Infantry fighting vehicle
Place of origin Greece
Specifications
Weight 19.8 t
Length 5.98 m
Width 2.55 m
Height 2.45 m
Crew 3 + 8

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Primary
armament 30 mm EBO cannon
Secondary
armament 7.62 mm coaxial
Engine MTU Friedrichshafen
420 hp
Power/weight 21.2 hp/t
Suspension (Lever Arm) Rotary Damper[1]
Operational
range 500km
Speed 75 km/h
Kentaurus is an Armored Infantry Fighting Vehicle (AIFV) designed and developed by the Greek vehicle builder ELBO. Its history is connected with the need for an advanced AIFV by the Greek Armed Forces. The vehicle takes its name from the Greek word for Centaur the creature from Greek mythology. After aborted efforts including Leonidas-2 variants and other attempted improvements and joint developments, ELBO worked entirely on its own, on a new design according to the specifications given at the time by the Hellenic Army. The resulting AIFV developed by the Greek company, named 'Kentaurus' ('ΚΕΝΤΑΥΡΟΣ'), was officially introduced in the Defendory Arms Exhibition in Athens in 1998, and at that time was one of the most advanced AIFV's in the world. It features a 420hp MTU Diesel engine, 30 mm EBO cannon and 7.62 mm machine-gun (built on Mauser and Rheinmetall designs), Pyrkal smoke-grenade launchers, Toxotis computerized fire control system and KUKA turret. The crew is 3+8, maximum speed (street) is 75 km/h and maximum weight is 19.8 tons. However, despite successful intensive tests by the Greek army, its approval, and an initial agreement in 2003 for an order of 140 vehicles,----------->****its fate is to this date uncertain due to subsequent cutbacks in relevant military spending, and evaluation of cheaper alternatives<-----------------***. <br>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELBO_Kentaurus



HAVE A NICE DAY

If you were a costumer, Whichone will be your desicion to buy ?

Fanta why don't you tell us the stanag levels of that faillure? Was she mine resistant?

A cheap cigarette box like design that supposedly is too expensive, lol.

--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
Power is the ultimate afrodisiak (Henry kissinger)

" Yes it is with the latest standards of stealth, completely invisible!"

Ti gelas re? What's so funny? The fact you need to sit on a phone book to drive and aren't allowed on any roller coasters? Silly legal dwarf.

The funny thing is the only thing you Griks can be proud of is a faillure. Sad irony

--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
Power is the ultimate afrodisiak (Henry kissinger)

You are the epitomy of failure. And a legal midget to boot. Take some rope, find a tree, and do the world a favour.

Nutuk, I'm still waiting for you to backup your erroneous claims that "it failed specs" and to post WHICH "FAILED SPECS" they supposedly WERE


I guess you understand that you've been stomped on that one so far and disproven, so I don't think I'll be getting an answer for that one anytime soon


always a pleasure......biatch





http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

I understand my last post may come off a bit harsh. But certain people in here are pure scumbags with a lot of hate and negative energy. The world would be a better place without them.

from what i've read the Army wasn't impressed with Kentavros performance. It might had to do with its mobility, probably being underpowered especially with the "heavy" 30mm gun turret.

--------------------------------------------


Quoting a Turkish forumer:
"It's a well known fact that most of the boys or girls living in south-eastern Turkey are losing their virginities to horses or dogs of their villages, so I don't think this will suprise any Turk in this forum; we are used to these kinda news..."

All what you guys do is blah blah blah, none of you cite the real rejection reasons for that faillure.

Blah blah blah
We Greeks produced the best AIFV but it turned out that the cigarette box became too expensive blah blah blah


Look people, a design can fail but that's not a reason to stop developing. If the first attempt is a faillure than continue for a second attempt and don't stay the biatches without ballz forever!

--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
Power is the ultimate afrodisiak (Henry kissinger)

"It might had to do with its mobility, probably being underpowered especially with the "heavy" 30mm gun turret."

It's top speed is 75 km/h, faster than the BMP-3, Bradley, Puma, and CV90. It's power/weight ratio is a little low, but not bad, compared to other IFVs.

GK8, you are correct. I checked out some top speed comparisons myself a few days ago on this.



It's power to weight ratio in H.P. might be a tad low, but that thing probably has loads of torque. Torque is most important anyway with such heavy weapons. I see alot of shots in the dark here as to why it was canceled but so far the only solid proof is that it was too expensive. I posted 2 sources which said so as well.



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

"GK8, you are correct. I checked out some top speed comparisons myself a few days ago on this.



It's power to weight ratio in H.P. might be a tad low, but that thing probably has loads of torque. Torque is most important anyway with such heavy weapons. I see alot of shots in the dark here as to why it was canceled but so far the only solid proof is that it was too expensive. I posted 2 sources which said so as well."

Actually I kind of wish it was just a matter of not having enough armor or something, because that can be fixed. But what do you do if it's too expensive? I don't know what's going on with the BMP deal, and we've already looked at the Marder and decided not to go with that. This whole process has taken too much time, IMO. While the powers that be try to figure out which vehicle to buy, the Greek army goes without a modern IFV. I'd say forget about the cost and put the Kentaurus into production. Give the army a vehicle it needs, and give Greek workers some work. At least make some now, and if we decide for sure on a cheaper IFV from another country, buy some of those too to fill out the rest of the required amount of vehicles.

Actually I kind of wish it was just a matter of not having enough armor or something, because that can be fixed. But what do you do if it's too expensive? <<<<<< <br>


BINGO!.......that's the major problem and also why that project is in limbo or canceled alltoghether. It really is a shame. It was or is a very good IFV



http://kypros.org/Occupied_Cyprus/lambousa/

What happenned to the Greek menthality of "we do not need to build, we buy the best". LOL

Have you suddenly decided that it is actually a good thing to build your own vehicles?

"What happenned to the Greek menthality of "we do not need to build, we buy the best". LOL

Have you suddenly decided that it is actually a good thing to build your own vehicles?"

Of course its good to build your own vehicles. But what good is it if you build something, and your enemy buys something better? It's also good to actually design your own vehicles, not buy your designs from Korea and Italy, slap "Made in Turkey" on them, and call them yours.

ELVO and METKA actually have excellent facilities and bright people.

leonidas and kentauros were bloated sociaslist employment projects. the best bet for equipping ourselves with excellent armor at a decent price is to operate ELVO as a licensed production facility that partners with the best designers in europe. something approaching a steady production rate should be maintained to continually keep our units equipped with modern vehicles. in short, i see ELVO as a tool for generating local offsets in our procurements without incurring the cost and RISK of R&D and project management.

this is the ranking of options for the current IFV requirement i would like to see ELVO produce:

1) cv-90
(proven, well protected, flexible design family, good firepower)

2) puma
(tough and sophisticated but pricey, need to learn more about the flexibility of its chasis design, future variants, etc)

3) bmp-3m
(packs a punch, cheaper, would need custom electronics, perhaps bad manners not to buy european)