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The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

October 1 2011 at 6:47 PM
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WAFFer  (Login beryoza)
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TuAF35LightningII
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 6:51 PM 

The U.S. "grants" tanks, the EU "grants" 200 billion Euros to Greece, the King of Beggars happy.gif

 
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TuAF35LightningII
(Login TuAF35LightningII)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 6:53 PM 

Greece would be on par with Albania without all this help.

 
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(Login Ararat_is_Mine)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 6:57 PM 

"Greece would be on par with Albania without all this help"

LOL sure they would, but guess what retard? This is the same Abrams that killed every single tank Sadam had happy.gif

Oh about the Albania, sorry Greeks are not known to be the smuglers of Opium...ROTF

Guess who is going to laugh his arse off when this things land in Cyprus? Oopps I did not remember the platform is blown up by the gaytoork navy...ROTF

HAW HAW

 
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(Login Hamza67)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 8:50 PM 

which tanks of saddam you mean? can you please give examples which tanks saddam used in the war?

thank you

--------------------------------------
[linked image]
STKRAR SÜRSÜN diyen dinsizler...1999 ylnda PKK kendini fes etme karar ald.. 2000 ylnda 0 ehit, 2001 ylnda 0 ehit Veeeeeeeeeeeee AKP hükumeti balyor
2002 de 13 ehit
.........2003 de 21 ehit
2004 de 73 ehit
2005 de 92 ehit
2006 da 121 ehit
2007 de 118 ehit
2008 de 150 ehit
2009 da 135 ehit
2010 da 141 ehit
Tayyip'in ustalk dönemi ..... Bir ayda 60 Sehit
..........................................Durmak Yok Yola Devam....teröriste gerilla diyene alkis, askere Hapis!!! Baris analari Kandile, Güneydogu Özerklige, Apo EV Hapsine,Yasasin Demokrasi, Yasasin Acilim , Yasa AKP, Yasa Demokratik Türkiye Cumhuriyeti...


 
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(Login Combat_Master)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 8:54 PM 

Such news would not go unseen by US news agencies, yet somehow, such news is no where to be found.. Apart from Tale telling Grik websites.


 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 8:58 PM 

"which tanks of saddam you mean? can you please give examples which tanks saddam used in the war? "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72_operators_and_variants#Iraq

...most of the Republican Guard was equipped with T-72's, the regular Iraqi Army used T-62s and T-54/55s.


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]



    
This message has been edited by coalde_one on Oct 1, 2011 9:03 PM


 
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(Login Hamza67)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 9:20 PM 

hmmm ok...

--------------------------------------
[linked image]
STKRAR SÜRSÜN diyen dinsizler...1999 ylnda PKK kendini fes etme karar ald.. 2000 ylnda 0 ehit, 2001 ylnda 0 ehit Veeeeeeeeeeeee AKP hükumeti balyor
2002 de 13 ehit
.........2003 de 21 ehit
2004 de 73 ehit
2005 de 92 ehit
2006 da 121 ehit
2007 de 118 ehit
2008 de 150 ehit
2009 da 135 ehit
2010 da 141 ehit
Tayyip'in ustalk dönemi ..... Bir ayda 60 Sehit
..........................................Durmak Yok Yola Devam....teröriste gerilla diyene alkis, askere Hapis!!! Baris analari Kandile, Güneydogu Özerklige, Apo EV Hapsine,Yasasin Demokrasi, Yasasin Acilim , Yasa AKP, Yasa Demokratik Türkiye Cumhuriyeti...


 
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Crete Revenge
(Login cretegeorge)
Group General

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 9:37 PM 

"Such news would not go unseen by US news agencies, yet somehow, such news is no where to be found.. Apart from Tale telling Grik websites."

@Retard Master

Such news are not going around because this is not a sale agreement, the U.S. government grant this equipment, later with the delivering you here stuff like this in the world news.
Tell me one US new agency for the 3 AH-1W cobra deal with Turkey, oh they are nothing, lol. What a surprise.


[linked image]

[linked image]

Turkomans, PKK ownage never ends

[linked image]




 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 9:58 PM 

"Such news are not going around because this is not a sale agreement, the U.S. government grant this equipment, later with the delivering you here stuff like this in the world news. "

I have actually been wondering about the lack of mention in the US press about it as well (it appears to be a multi-billion dollar transfer)...but we will see what happens.


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]


 
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WAFFer
(Login Serkan999)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 10:34 PM 

Iraqi tanks were undergraded walking coffins. Does not count

[linked image]

Adler
8/6/2011 11:46:53 AMAs a non Muslim German Student there are some facts that I know about Iran:- If Israel attack Iran it will be the beginning of an end for the Zionist regime.- If NATO (puppet of USrael) target Iran they have to count with the highest and biggest casualties ever!- And I know if I could get there I would fight for Iran

 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 10:43 PM 

"Iraqi tanks were undergraded walking coffins."

SB you have been watching too much Clone Wars again...tanks don't walk...they drive on treads...

The Iraqi's used the T-72M1A variant and the indigenously produced Lion of Babylon variant (that had extra spaced armour welded to the turret front).

" Does not count"

Why is it Jihadist apologists always claim that it doesn't count when they lose? You folks are aware that what made the Wehrmacht such a fearsome force early in WWII was their in depth analysis of their own mistakes in WWI, right?


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]



    
This message has been edited by coalde_one on Oct 1, 2011 10:54 PM


 
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WAFFer
(Login Serkan999)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 11:10 PM 

Upgrades in the 80's don't count facing a modern tank that will just out shoot you from far in the flat Iraqi desert. With better strategy and intel from the air. That's all there is too it. Terrain from Turkey is totally different. Those 400 M1A1's will have no superiority here. With the upcoming Atlay there won't be any trouble.

[linked image]

Adler
8/6/2011 11:46:53 AMAs a non Muslim German Student there are some facts that I know about Iran:- If Israel attack Iran it will be the beginning of an end for the Zionist regime.- If NATO (puppet of USrael) target Iran they have to count with the highest and biggest casualties ever!- And I know if I could get there I would fight for Iran

 
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WAFFer
(Login Fatih1989)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 11:22 PM 

im hopping greece will do the smart thing with those tanks by selling them. Enjoy the logistical and mechanical hell of M1A1 also M1A1 is an overated tank. T72 with modern gadgets would of destroyed M1A1 durring gulf war error.

 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 11:44 PM 

"Upgrades in the 80's don't count facing a modern tank that will just out shoot you from far in the flat Iraqi desert. With better strategy and intel from the air. That's all there is too it."

Yes but you see the fundamental problem with that theory my deluded little Clone Wars fan, was that the engagement ranges during 73 Easting were almost all from 2000m's and below. In addition in the 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom there were numerous T-72 ambushes of M1's at ranges below 250m...and not a single M1 was lost to enemy cannon fire.

"With the upcoming Atlay there won't be any trouble."

You know personally I think Turkey should just scrap the Altay and focus on their soon to be upcoming AT-AT Walkers...

[linked image]

...as you can see they are just about at the same place in the development cycle (i.e. lots of pictures and some plastic models).

...and yes SB you and your jihadi friends will be able to grab your lightsabers and use the force (of Allah) to protect Muslims all around the world...



[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]


 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 11:46 PM 

"also M1A1 is an overated tank."

Yep you bet it is...I am sure NG76 would have some things to say about that statement, since he lived in one in Iraq for a year...but it is a real tank, unlike the Altay...


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]


 
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WAFFer
(Login Serkan999)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 1 2011, 11:55 PM 

So you are saying M1's were well within the rage and none of them was fired at because it is so amazing it has a cloacking device? Link me please..

[linked image]

Adler
8/6/2011 11:46:53 AMAs a non Muslim German Student there are some facts that I know about Iran:- If Israel attack Iran it will be the beginning of an end for the Zionist regime.- If NATO (puppet of USrael) target Iran they have to count with the highest and biggest casualties ever!- And I know if I could get there I would fight for Iran

 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 12:01 AM 

"So you are saying M1's were well within the rage and none of them was fired at because it is so amazing it has a cloacking device? Link me please.."

What do you think I am, your secretary?

Go Google 73 Easting and operation Iraqi Freedom for yourself.


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]


 
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(Login Serkan999)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 12:03 AM 

Imma use my trap card and open your infidel optimistic talk.

By 6:30, the first of several waves of Iraqi T-72 and T-55 tanks advanced into the wadi. Fierce fighting ensued as wave after wave of tanks and infantry charged the troop. Combat became so intense at times that only massed artillery and mortar fires, attack helicopters and Air Force close air support prevented the enemy from closing with G Troop

During the six-hour battle, the G Troop fire support team called in 720 howitzer and MLRS rounds while using its own mortars continually to turn back attackers at close range.

I am so impressed. Like I said. Take out their tanks with range and if they come close use air/artillery whatever. I said that without resorting to the internet and I was correct.

Again, M1 will have no advantage in battlefield against Turkey. None,zippo,nada.

[linked image]

Adler
8/6/2011 11:46:53 AMAs a non Muslim German Student there are some facts that I know about Iran:- If Israel attack Iran it will be the beginning of an end for the Zionist regime.- If NATO (puppet of USrael) target Iran they have to count with the highest and biggest casualties ever!- And I know if I could get there I would fight for Iran

 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 12:20 AM 

"Imma use my trap card and open your infidel optimistic talk."

Sorry what is a trap card? Is that where you selectively pick things to support your arguments? From the same article you used...
At 4:10 p.m. Eagle Troop received fire from an Iraqi infantry position in a cluster of buildings at UTM PU 6801.[9][10] The troop returned fire with its tanks and Bradleys, silenced the Iraqi guns, took prisoners, and continued east with the two tank platoons leading. The 12 M1A1 tanks of Eagle Troop destroyed 28 Iraqi tanks, 16 personnel carriers. and 30 trucks in 23 minutes with no American losses.[11]

At about 4:20 Eagle crested a low rise and surprised an Iraqi tank company set up in a reverse slope defense on the 70 Easting. Captain McMaster, leading the attack, immediately engaged that position, destroying the first of the eight enemy tanks to his front. His two tank platoons finished the rest.

Three kilometers to the east McMaster could see T-72s in prepared positions. Continuing his attack past the 70 limit of advance, he fought his way through an infantry defensive position and on to high ground along the 74 Easting. There he encountered and destroyed another enemy tank unit of eighteen T72s. In that action the Iraqis stood their ground and attempted to maneuver against the troop. This was the first determined defense the Regiment had encountered in its three days of operations. Still, the Iraqi troops had been surprised because of the inclement weather and were quickly destroyed by the superbly trained American troopers.

After defeating that force, McMaster sent a scout platoon north to regain contact with Troop G. In doing that the scout platoon encountered another Iraqi tank position of thirteen T72s which they destroyed with TOW missiles.[12]

Other 2nd ACR Troops I (call sign Iron), K (Killer), and G (Ghost) joined the fight minutes later. Iron Troop of Third Squadron had halted around the 67 Easting to control the limit of advance with its tank cannons. As the troop moved north to secure its northern boundary around 4:45, it came under fire from the same group of buildings E Troop had fought through an hour earlier.

Captain Dan Miller, commanding I Troop, silenced the resistance with return fire then attacked to the 70 Easting. There, he confronted T72s in defensive positions south of those E Troop had just obliterated. With initial support from Captain Mac Haszards K Troop, Millers tanks destroyed sixteen enemy tanks on that position and then attacked through it. Just beyond the defenses I Troop observed another formation of enemy tanks moving in its direction and attacked it with tank and TOW fires. During that engagement, TOW missile fire from a K Troop Bradley struck and destroyed an I Troop Bradley wounding all three crewmen.[13] Before returning to positions along the 70 Easting, I Troop located the defending battalions command post and destroyed its command bunker and security forces.[14]

By 4:40, Captain Joe Sartianos G Troop had gained a position on a ridge overlooking a wadi at and parallel to the 73 Easting, north of E Troop. As the Regiments northernmost unit, G Troop secured an open flank until the 3rd Armored Divisions cavalry squadron arrived to occupy its own positions along the 70 Easting.

Sartianos men engaged Iraqi 18th Brigade tanks in defensive positions initially. Very quickly, however, G Troop found itself facing counterattacks by tank units of both the Tawakalna Division and the Iraqi 12th Armored Division. Additionally other Iraqi units attempted to retreat to the north along the wadi and that led them directly into G Troops position.
...by the way you do know that an ACR Troop is about 14 tanks right?

"I am so impressed. Like I said. Take out their tanks with range and if they come close use air/artillery whatever. I said that without resorting to the internet and I was correct. Again, M1 will have no advantage in battlefield against Turkey. None,zippo,nada."

...and that would explain why you will never amount to much more than being an Internet troll living in your parents basement well into your 40's...now you just go trundle off and play with your Star Wars toys and leave the real discussions about REAL military hardware to the adults, ShovelBOY.



[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]



    
This message has been edited by coalde_one on Oct 2, 2011 12:38 AM


 
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(Login Serkan999)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 12:41 AM 

..by the way you do know that an ACR Troop is about 14 tanks right?

By the way you do know that a few Iranian teens who were at the front took out 30 Iraqi tanks alone sitting in trenches shooting RPG's? The footage followed by Iraqis deserting their tanks and running towards another direction. Iraqi soldiers(mostly Shia under Saddams army) were never motivated in their life time and you act it's impressive Americans using everything they have from Jets,Helicopters and even artillery to take out the Iraqi tank crews lol. Imma go and repeat myself, M1's will have no,and I repeat no advantage in battle against Turkey. I go workout some and sleep. Do continue talking about star wars and other irrelevant stuff you masturbate over but at the end of the day my arguement stands. Toodles happy.gif

[linked image]

Adler
8/6/2011 11:46:53 AMAs a non Muslim German Student there are some facts that I know about Iran:- If Israel attack Iran it will be the beginning of an end for the Zionist regime.- If NATO (puppet of USrael) target Iran they have to count with the highest and biggest casualties ever!- And I know if I could get there I would fight for Iran

 
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WAFFer
(Login Serkan999)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 1:00 AM 

Iraq was a country without a soul. An empty bottle. In the documentary about his lifetime it showed that Saddam and his family were totally cut away from the Iraqis and reality. His sons were doing cocaine and alcohol and even in a rage killed a waiter in the mansion. Had forced sex with one of the waitresses in the bathroom. I also remember the people tore some street dog to show their fake love for Saddam. Saddam was a son of a whore and he is sucking the devils genitals in hell now. He is burning in lava togheter with his family. How the hell can you talk about Islam when these wannabe Muslim wahabi dogs are nothing but opportunists. Throw a bag of money to these dogs like the Saudis and their disgusting nature comes above. If it wasn't for the innocent people Israel kills women children I would have said phuck it. Stupid wahabi son of whores. ''Yeah shia this shia that'' stfu and keep sucking that d!ck. Islam is associated with the most incompetent humans on the face of the earth,pity.

[linked image]

Adler
8/6/2011 11:46:53 AMAs a non Muslim German Student there are some facts that I know about Iran:- If Israel attack Iran it will be the beginning of an end for the Zionist regime.- If NATO (puppet of USrael) target Iran they have to count with the highest and biggest casualties ever!- And I know if I could get there I would fight for Iran

 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 1:13 AM 

"By the way you do know that a few Iranian teens who were at the front took out 30 Iraqi tanks alone sitting in trenches shooting RPG's? The footage followed by Iraqis deserting their tanks and running towards another direction."

You have a link to this footage? Or perhaps you can provide me with the name of this engagement? Or is like all the claims of the Iranian Revolutionary council and "slightly" exaggerated.

"Iraqi soldiers(mostly Shia under Saddams army) were never motivated in their life time and you act it's impressive Americans using everything they have from Jets,Helicopters and even artillery to take out the Iraqi tank crews lol."

Well yes the Iraqi army pretty much wasn't worth the food they consumed...however the Republican Guard was a different kettle of fish.

"Imma go and repeat myself, M1's will have no,and I repeat no advantage in battle against Turkey."

Well of course they will have no advantage...you see having an advantage over something requires you to specify what they would have an advantage over, which you have never specified. All that being said, M1's are most battle proven 3rd Generation tank out there, and battle proven does carry some weight.

"...but at the end of the day my arguement stands."

Which argument would that be? The one where you say that tanks walk? Or is the one where you claim a weapons system that hasn't even made to prototype will be superior to an existing and battle tested weapon system? Or would it be the one where you claimed the M1's at 73 Eastings had no kills and it was all done by arty and air support? ...because I proved that last one incorrect by copying the preceding paragraphs from the exact same article you used.

"I go workout some and sleep."

TRANSLATION: ShovelBOY is going to go play with his dolls...err, action figures in his parents basement and then put his footy PJ's on and go for nappy time because this thinking like an adult is WWWAAAYYY to difficult for his developing mind.


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]


 
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(Login ELWAPO)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 1:27 AM 

This moron amazes me how many times he gets bitch slap and comes back for more....


That's the sign of a guy that is slow in mental development or......... well that's all i got.

After all he believes that hezbollah won the 06 war against Israel...... that clearly shows some
sort of mental erosion, right?





----------------
[linked image]
[linked image]

 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 1:45 AM 

"Islam is associated with the most incompetent humans on the face of the earth, pity."

Well SB we finally agree on one thing...

"After all he believes that hezbollah won the 06 war against Israel...... that clearly shows some
sort of mental erosion, right? "


Why don't you start a thread and we can discuss it...


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]



    
This message has been edited by coalde_one on Oct 2, 2011 1:46 AM


 
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WAFFer
(Login Fatih1989)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 3:18 AM 

a well equip t-72 with a good crew will be able to defeat a M1A1 . Iraqi T-72 as u can its a poorly equip t-72

[linked image]





    
This message has been edited by Fatih1989 on Oct 2, 2011 3:19 AM


 
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(Login cretegeorge)
Group General

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 7:32 AM 

"Such news would not go unseen by US news agencies, yet somehow, such news is no where to be found.. Apart from Tale telling Grik websites."

@Retard Master

I have found a source in Turkish for this matter

AMERKADAN YUNANSTANA 400 ADET M1A1 ABRAMS TANKI GELYOR

[linked image]

ABD, tarafndan Yunanistana verilmesi aylar önce gündeme gelen 400 adet M1A1 ABRAMS tanknn verilmesine onay çkt belirtiliyor. Atinadan güvenilir kaynaklardan elde edilen bilgilere göre, ABDnin Yunanistana hibe olarak vermeyi kabul ettii tanklarn modernizesi için Yunanistann çok az bir ödeme yapmay kabul ettii belirtiliyor. Böylece ksa bir zaman içerisinde kabul yazsnn (LOA) ulamas bekleniyor.

[linked image]

Ayrca, Yunanistan Kara Kuvvetlerine katmay planlad 75-100 adet paletli zrhl AAV7A1 Amfibik Devriye aracnn ilk 20 adetin modernize edilmek kaydyla fiyatnn sorulduu ve anlamann salanmak üzere olduu gelen haberler arasnda yer alyor.
http://www.birlikgazetesi.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3848:amerkadan-yunanstana-400-adet-m1a1-abrams-tanki-gelyor&catid=34:haberler&Itemid=54



[linked image]

[linked image]

Turkomans, PKK ownage never ends

[linked image]

 
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Romulus
(Login romulus007)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 7:48 AM 

Looks like this is the 'arschen-angst' of the Turks

their media cannot stop talking about it! LOL

(Splitting sides laughing)

when the 400 Abrams arrive in Thrace its gonna be a whole new ball game and they know it!

HAW! HAW!

[linked image]

=============================================


 
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(Login RomanoCy)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 10:53 AM 

"In addition, the Greek Land Forces is planning to add pieces of 75-100 AAV7A1 Amphibious tracked armored vehicles patrol the top 20 of the menstrual cycle to be modernized so as to satisfy the agreement provided that the price asked, and that is one of the news."
Firs a big LOL for the Google translation, see the menstrual cycle happy.gif
Second, the Greek army is planing to get 75-100 AAV7A1, the same amphibious machine that Turkey is intending buying 20 something pieces?

.


    
This message has been edited by RomanoCy on Oct 2, 2011 11:23 AM


 
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(Login Temren)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 10:56 AM 

keep dreaming kids

Even If you are good enough, you can see The Smurfs. [linked image]

[linked image]

 
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WAFFer
(Login Serkan999)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 11:08 AM 

You have a link to this footage? Or perhaps you can provide me with the name of this engagement? Or is like all the claims of the Iranian Revolutionary council and "slightly" exaggerated.

This was posted some years ago and I still remember it clearly. I think others could vouch for me,although I do not know the exact location of the footage now. It has nothing to do with nationalism. At those rates and unexperienced fightings many Iraqi tanks just got destroyed and abandoned. My point being is that Americans defeating these tank crews is nothing spectacular. Nothing at all.


a well equip t-72 with a good crew will be able to defeat a M1A1 . Iraqi T-72 as u can its a poorly equip t-72

If you upgrade the T72 a la M60 style sure why not.
[linked image]

If you look at the Pakistani Al Khalid you can see some T72 in it as well.


We are talking about replacing the regular M48s and M60s so anything is better than that really lol.

[linked image]

Adler
8/6/2011 11:46:53 AMAs a non Muslim German Student there are some facts that I know about Iran:- If Israel attack Iran it will be the beginning of an end for the Zionist regime.- If NATO (puppet of USrael) target Iran they have to count with the highest and biggest casualties ever!- And I know if I could get there I would fight for Iran

 
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Coalde
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Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 4:10 PM 

"...although I do not know the exact location of the footage now."

So what you are saying is that you made it up? Well I suppose I should expect that from you ShovelBOY, since children have such wonderful imaginations...

"It has nothing to do with nationalism. At those rates and unexperienced fightings many Iraqi tanks just got destroyed and abandoned. My point being is that Americans defeating these tank crews is nothing spectacular. Nothing at all."

Sorry you just said that you had footage of Iraqi tank crews bailing out of tanks from the Iran/Iraq war and now you are saying that the Iraqi tank crews had never been in combat prior to the Gulf War? Newsflash for you, the Republican Guard officers and men would have seen far more actual combat than their US counterparts due to the Iran/Iraq war.






[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 5:05 PM 

"a well equip t-72 with a good crew will be able to defeat a M1A1 ."

Under what conditions? Technically speaking a guy with some hand tools should be able to defeat any tank...by sneaking up on it while it is parked and unguarded and removing/disconnecting a couple things in the engine thereby achieving a "mobility kill" (I suppose the same thing could be achieved by parking the tank and leaving it unguarded for 45 seconds in certain areas of Brooklyn wink.gif ).

"Iraqi T-72 as u can its a poorly equip t-72"

The Iraqi T-72's were pretty much identical to all other T-72M1's, however the Iraqi's removed the laminate armour and replaced it with spaced armour additions and electro-optical countermeasures...
  • T-72M1 (Ob'yekt 172M-E5, Ob'yekt 172M-E6) - Soviet export version, with thicker armour and similar to T-72A obr.1979g. It also is fitted with 7+5 smoke grenade dischargers on turret front. (built also in Poland and ex-Czechoslovakia).[30]
  • T-72A (Ob'yekt 176) (1979) - An improved version of the basic T-72 "Ural". Overall, its offensive capabilities are similar to the basic T-72 "Ural", but it is much better protected. The differences between T-72 "Ural" and T-72A include the searchlight being placed on the right hand side of turret, the TPD-2-49 coincidence optical rangefinder being replaced by the TPD-K1 laser rangefinder, added plastic armour track skirts covering the upper part of the suspension with separate panels protecting the sides of the fuel and stowage panniers instead of the flipper type armor panels used in T-72 "Ural", the turret front and top being heavily reinforced with composite armour better known by its US codename - "Dolly Parton", provisions for mounting reactive armor, an electronic fire control system, MB smoke grenade launchers, flipper armour mount on front mudguards, internal changes, and a slight weight increase.
  • Lion of Babylon - In most aspects, the Lion of Babylon is physically identical to the basic T-72M.[4] The Iraqi tank was upgraded to T-72M1A features with the addition of laminated armor on the front slope and rear as protection against HEAT projectiles.[5] A few examples featured a laser rangefinder for its 125 mm smoothbore main gun. American military intelligence believed some of them also featured Belgian-made thermal sights.[6] These same sources claim the tank was also provided with a better track protection against sand and mud than the Soviet T-72, by reducing the original number of dampers.[7][8] Some of them carried a crude detachable pipe device made by the Iraqis in order to use the exhausts to blow up sand or dust to dig-in the tank.[9] It's widely known that the tank had some kind of electro-optical interference pods of Chinese origin.[10][11] As secondary armament, the tank mounted either the NSV or the DShK 12.7 mm machinegun and the coaxial 7.62 mm PKT common to all models of T-72.
...entries from from...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72_operators_and_variants#Soviet_Union_and_Russian_Federation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_of_Babylon_tank

...as much as you guys are trying to make yourselves feel better about how inferior US M1's are to every other tank on the battlefield (not to mention tanks that aren't even in prototype phase yet), the facts remain...
  • the Iraqi T-72s were as good as any T-72 out there, save Soviet/Russian models available at the time
  • The primary reason for the huge disparity in loses in GW1 between Iraqi and US tanks were the exceptionally trained and motivated US tank crews, who were entirely capable of hitting (and usually destroying) targets over 2km away, over 90% of the time, while on the move (at between 35 and 45km/h), and could engage a new target EVERY 6 SECONDS OR LESS.
  • ...and finally the M1 is the most battle tested (including tank on tank engagements) 3rd generation out there and will likely remain so for the foreseeable future
...you guys can continue to fap away and claim that the Iraqi's are uniquely inept or that their tanks were somehow inferior to all other T-72's (which is generally considered the best 2nd generation tank produced).

...personally I find your desperate attempts to explain your ideologically motivated claims of "inferiority" of US weapon systems rather pathetic and amusing.


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]


 
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(Login Serkan999)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 6:01 PM 

You not being sharpest tool in the shed I take my chances. In the past you said I was making things up when I was quoting some sites lold. Being a denying lil queer is easy coalie. A quality well known among children I might add. Mr Adult.

I would like to get back to my point befor we wonder off to starwars and star trek again and your anecdotes of saturday night world of warcraft raids in your moms basement. Despite US going bankrupt fighting two small nations and bombarding everything in deserts the M1 and I repeat once more will have no advantage against Turkey in battlefield. Americans nuking the crap out of T72s in the flat deserts is irrelevant. So yes in a way an upgraded T72 in mediterranean battefield could knock out those M1s. But that is not the point coalie,I know you like to hold on to things like a kid not wanting to let go of his toys but let aside your ego and think logically. The upcoming Atlay will certainly have no problems against the M1. So if Turkey will continue on their goals it will be all good happy.gif.

[linked image]

Adler
8/6/2011 11:46:53 AMAs a non Muslim German Student there are some facts that I know about Iran:- If Israel attack Iran it will be the beginning of an end for the Zionist regime.- If NATO (puppet of USrael) target Iran they have to count with the highest and biggest casualties ever!- And I know if I could get there I would fight for Iran

 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 6:51 PM 

"You not being sharpest tool in the shed I take my chances. In the past you said I was making things up when I was quoting some sites lold."

Examples? None again, eh? Well like I said I appreciate children with active imaginations.

"Being a denying lil queer is easy coalie."

...so you are saying that because you deny that US M1's actually killed the vast majority of Iraqi tanks at 73 Easting (proven with supporting evidence) and in your frustration for being unable to formulate a coherent argument that you have decided to come out of the closet and admit your homosexuality? ...while I applaud your candour and openness, and certainly there is nothing wrong with being a homosexual, I think it might be a little bit early in your life for you to make decisions about your sexuality...perhaps wait until you hit puberty...

"A quality well known among children I might add. Mr Adult."

...which nicely explains your use of the tactic...

"the M1 and I repeat once more will have no advantage against Turkey in battlefield."

Well since we have already established that the vast majority of Turkish MBTs are 1st and 2nd generation tanks, and we have established that M1's generate extremely lopsided kill ratios (in favour of the M1s) against such opposition, I would say that we have indeed established that they certainly will change the balance of armoured forces in Greece's favour.

"Americans nuking the crap out of T72s in the flat deserts is irrelevant."

Ah children and their bombastic vocabulary...do you have a link to this use of nuclear weapons in the desert against armoured forces? No again, eh?

"So yes in a way an upgraded T72 in mediterranean battefield could knock out those M1s."

How so? Precisely what upgrades? Previous engagements seem to indicate that regardless of close the Iraqi T-72s were, they were unable to hit/kill US tanks, from the Wikipedia entry for M1 in Operation Iraqi Freedom...
The most lopsided achievement of the M1A1s was the destruction of seven T-72 Lion of Babylon tanks in a point-blank skirmish (less than 50 yards (46 m)) near Mahmoudiyah, about 18 miles (29 km) south of Baghdad, with no losses for the American side.[18] In addition to the Abrams' already heavy armament, some crews were also issued M136 AT4 shoulder-fired anti-tank weapons under the assumption that they might have to engage heavy armor in tight urban areas where the main gun could not be brought to bear.
...now we know that Lion of Babylon tanks were only issued to the Iraqi Republican Guard, so these were he best of the best that a nation of 35M Muslims could produce.

"But that is not the point coalie,I know you like to hold on to things like a kid not wanting to let go of his toys but let aside your ego and think logically."

Ah I see...what you are doing is a well know psychological phenomenon where the subject projects his hopes and fears onto everyone else, you see I know this because the only statements I have made throughout this entire ~150 post thread marathon with children like you are as follows....
  • 3rd Gen tanks have been demonstrated to achieve kill ratios in excess of 10:1 against 1st/2nd Gen tanks
  • The M1 is the most battle tested 3rd Gen tank in existence
...the rest of the thread(s) has really just been me proving that the denials of some children here on WAFF as to the relevance of the facts supporting those two arguments is founded more upon those childrens fantasies than any kind of solid evidence...did someone take your toys away when you were younger?

"The upcoming Atlay will certainly have no problems against the M1."

Sorry, again you are merely stating a belief (and confusing it with fact), since there isn't even a working prototype of Altay tank in existence yet. In addition if we look at the results of past major Turkish weapons system development projects, there seems to be a identifiable trend...for instance, The Hurkus which is a simple basic turbo-prop aircraft (similar to a Cessna)...in development for years, still hasn't flown.

"So if Turkey will continue on their goals it will be all good"

Well I suppose if you mean that Turkish M48/M60 crews will be getting state funerals in record numbers should they attack Greece, then yes, all will be good...of course I hope for the sake of those Turkish crews and their families that this does not happen to them...but then again children usually fail to appreciate the actual human cost of warfare.


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]


 
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(Login Combat_Master)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 6:56 PM 

Should I find it funny that an Iranian and Canadian are discussing this matter ?


 
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memzey
(Login memzey)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 8:35 PM 

Once these tanks are deployed they will surely enhance Greece's capability in the Thracian theatre. I'm not sure why so many people are in denial of this to be honest? Also, for those trying to make out they can't cut the mustard; The M1A1 is a better tank than anything we have apart from the Leo 2s, so this will need a response from us. They may be fuel inefficient and require a different type of logistical support than Greece's armed forces currently have, but that is another matter. It will be played out in terms of system availability in the years following their induction, so let's just wait and see one way or the other.

I do wonder though (assuming this news is actually true), how long it will take for these tanks to reach full operational capability? The logistical lines will need to be redesigned and implemented, as will training for crews/support engineers and a new operational strategy drawn up. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a couple of years before they are deployed in any significant numbers. I'd also expect a large number of them never to be deployed and retained purely for spare parts as finding room in the budget for that sort of thing would be impossible for Greece in the next few years.

All in all, I think this increases the stakes for the Altay project considerably. This can't be a balls up or another AKP smoke and mirrors manoeuvre to please the electorate. We need our own tank, it needs to be great and we need to be able to build and deploy it in considerable numbers quite quickly. Not too much of a challenge then! This could be good for Turkey as minds and policies will no doubt find new focus in the face of this development. I wouldn't be surprised however, if the US also offers us a load of heavy metal they don't feel like hauling back home from Iraq. If they do, our response to that will be more revealing of the real confidence held by those in power in the Altay project, than any poster campaign by the AKP, Roketsan, Aselsan or Otokar.

 
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WAFFer
(Login Serkan999)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 8:54 PM 

LOOOOL! Coalie is Canadian? Why so AMERICUU PHUCK YEAH,BOMB DEM AYRABS KIDS. So troll. Dude has the ''I want to be correct all the time so I can sleep at night'' syndrome. Just like Provost. Note to self: Avoid that sh!t lol. Turks aren't even bothering to responde now. They know wassup. That's all that's needed now happy.gif.

[linked image]

Adler
8/6/2011 11:46:53 AMAs a non Muslim German Student there are some facts that I know about Iran:- If Israel attack Iran it will be the beginning of an end for the Zionist regime.- If NATO (puppet of USrael) target Iran they have to count with the highest and biggest casualties ever!- And I know if I could get there I would fight for Iran

 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 9:41 PM 

"LOOOOL! Coalie is Canadian?"

That I am...that has been common knowledge on WAFF for years and I have never hidden that fact. I also lived just north of Miami for a few years.

"Why so AMERICUU PHUCK YEAH,BOMB DEM AYRABS KIDS. So troll."

Hmmmm...you apparently missed the 8 years worth of WAFF when George W Bush was in office (I suppose you were still developing your mechanical skills back then and couldn't quite manipulate a keyboard yet). In fact Provost and I had quite a few good debates regarding the legacy the GW Bush has left himself...in fact I believe I was one of the most vocal opponents to Operation Iraqi Freedom back in 2003/2004 here on WAFF. But you see that is the difference between a troll (such as yourself) and an adult wishing to discuss geo-political and military matters...the former shows up with their opinions (like you do) and the latter shows up with facts (like I do).

The really sad part is that back 4 or 5 years ago the ratio of child-trolls to adults having discussions here on WAFF was far more in favour of latter...alas all that seems to frequent WAFF anymore are the child-trolls...just look at this thread, there were dozens of facts/possibilities that could be debated and analyzed...instead we got a self-righteous monologue from a child who pretends to be, what can only be described as "gangsta-jihadi" (that being one of the most ridiculous contradictions ever created by mankind) about the failings of Iraq...all of which is particularly entertaining since you have never left the Netherlands in the many years you have frequented WAFF (under at least half a dozen different user names).

"Dude has the ''I want to be correct all the time so I can sleep at night'' syndrome. Just like Provost. Note to self: Avoid that sh!t lol."

Here you might want to follow that up with..."Note to self: Be an unemployed bum living in my parents basement for the rest of my life"...because honestly kid you certainly aren't charming or smart enough to be a good conman...or cleric, which are the only two occupations you can have where beliefs trump facts.

"Turks aren't even bothering to responde now. They know wassup. That's all that's needed now."

Actually the last two responses before this one came from Turks...again you refuse to see the facts in front of your eyes and still attempt to call others "troll"...how pathetic.


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]


 
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(Login Serkan999)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 9:53 PM 

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL I LOLD SO HARD. DUDE YOU ARE SO EMO WHAHAHA. YOU ARE SO: WANNA TOUCH? AHHAHA. I BET YOU HEAVY BREATH ON PEOPLES NECKS WANTING TO TOUCH. DON'T YOU. YOU WANNA TOUCH.

GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE ALREADY INFIDEL. YOU AREN'T THE ONLY ONES LIVING ON THIS PLANET. I SAID ALL I NEEDED TO SAY AND I WAS CORRECT. YOU ARE DRAGGING ME INTO YOUR EMO DRAMA LOL. OK SUGAR,WHATEVER MAKES YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT.

Oh god I lold so hard thanks alot coalie. You are so damn funny lold. I go sleep now happy.gif.

[linked image]

Adler
8/6/2011 11:46:53 AMAs a non Muslim German Student there are some facts that I know about Iran:- If Israel attack Iran it will be the beginning of an end for the Zionist regime.- If NATO (puppet of USrael) target Iran they have to count with the highest and biggest casualties ever!- And I know if I could get there I would fight for Iran

 
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Kris
(Login ELWAPO)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 10:11 PM 

Shovel is so retarded he doesn't even know he just got owned/bitched slapped by coalde..!

[linked image]

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[linked image]
[linked image]

 
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Eric
(Login Nighthawk00)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 10:35 PM 

Well yes the Iraqi army pretty much wasn't worth the food they consumed...however the Republican Guard was a different kettle of fish.
---
Well the Iraqi army was strong enough to hold out against Iran for 8 years. So yeah ...

crossroadsbakerexplosio.jpg

An unavoidable war is called justice.
When brutality is the only option left,
it is holy.
Machiavelli - The Prince 1513.


I'm not American, I'm from Flanders.

 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 10:43 PM 

"LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL...I LOLD SO HARD. DUDE YOU ARE SO EMO WHAHAHA. YOU ARE SO: WANNA TOUCH? AHHAHA. I BET YOU HEAVY BREATH ON PEOPLES NECKS WANTING TO TOUCH. DON'T YOU. YOU WANNA TOUCH.

GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE ALREADY INFIDEL. YOU AREN'T THE ONLY ONES LIVING ON THIS PLANET. I SAID ALL I NEEDED TO SAY AND I WAS CORRECT. YOU ARE DRAGGING ME INTO YOUR EMO DRAMA LOL. OK SUGAR,WHATEVER MAKES YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT.


Hmmmm...I must of hit pretty close to the mark to get him to deny it so vehemently...note the "ALL CAPS"...I suppose now he really means it...hmmmm...perhaps he is starting to worry that indeed he will be living in his parents basement for the rest of life playing with his dolls...errr, sorry, "collectibles"...

[linked image][linked image][linked image][linked image]

...all I can say to you now is, here is your sign buddy...

[linked image]

...anytime you'd like me to demonstrate your limited intellect again, feel free to post anywhere on WAFF. Oh God that was priceless...


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]



    
This message has been edited by coalde_one on Oct 2, 2011 11:07 PM
This message has been edited by coalde_one on Oct 2, 2011 11:06 PM


 
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(Login ELWAPO)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 11:07 PM 

The difference between shovel and thundy (thunder) is, one retard knows when to take
a break from being owned and the other one......... well do i need to explain..?

Islam is a hell of a drug! [linked image]

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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 11:17 PM 

"one retard knows when to take a break from being owned and the other one..."

I always just guessed that he actually did get arrested and incarcerated... wink.gif


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
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(Login ELWAPO)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 2 2011, 11:22 PM 

Well i reckoned they finally found those bodies under his basement.... that's what they
get for being negative nancy towards Rafael! [linked image]

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Wolf_Kanuni
(Login Wolf_Kanuni)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 1:13 PM 

I find it quite amusing when some people try to exaggerate the US "fighting skill" in the Iraqi war. Yes, US army is superbly trained, their equipment and firepower is unmatched, but they are NOT some uber fighting machines. But what is the general aim of some people when they say that Iraqis were well trained and that their T-72's were good? To imply that the US soldier is some super human??? My compatriots have a point when they say that the M1A1's didn't really fight against a good tank force. Take a look at this documentary. Watch it from 1:40



Not only their T-72's were no match for the M1A1's, the Iraqi army SUCKED. They didn't put up a decent fight, they were cowards and unskilled idiots. Otherwise, how can you explain the above battle? 1 killed and 12 wounded in the US Army vs thousands of deaths and remaining of 2 dozen tanks out of 200? Whether you'd like to face it or not, Iraq was NOT a match to the US army, not even close. And Iran is not a criteria for how capable the army of a country is... The main reasons of US success in Iraq is:

1. Air superiority

2. Better equipment and overwhelming firepower.

3. Better training

This M1A1 vs T-72 in desert war is not an example of how a M1A1 vs T-72 would be vs for example Russia. Get your heads out of your arses and see the truth. Implying that Iraqis had decent equipment vs the ones in the US army, or that Iraqis were well trained and a "worthy enemy" may just satisfy the egos of some Americans that their soldiers are some uber-fighting machines, but I'm not buying it. There are reasons why the Iraqis were CRUSHED. A handful of skilled and honourable Iraqi soldiers doesn't change the fact that the war in Iraq was a walkover for the US with very very few losses than one would expect in a war vs a "decent" enemy. While you are crying for that "1" loss in the above battle, there were THOUSANDS of people crying in the Iraq side. If Iraq didn't suck, then they should have also killed at least a few hundred Americans.


[linked image]

 
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Wolf_Kanuni
(Login Wolf_Kanuni)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 1:30 PM 

Quote - Fantaros -

"Turkey still enjoys numerical superiority over Greece in MBT's . The Greek tanks are superior in capability but there is also sonmething to be said about numbers and despite that your tank force is made up largely of vietnam era machines, it's still enough to make the evros region a stalemate, which really isn't a bad thing. Greece's LEO2A6 is light years ahead of anything turkey's got but those 170 tanks leading the way for the other older tanks still isn't enough imo. It's stalemate all around in Thrace. Now if Greece were to get the 400 M1A1 tanks, you could be right about the balance being tilted, but even in that case yhou still have mbt numerical superiority although now it becomes a much more daunting task for turkey because it would have to either relocate mbt's from other border frontiers in the east and move them west, OR concentrate mostly on defensive measures along the evros, changing turkey's doctrine a bit.............which in the end does play into the Greek hands since forcing turkey to go defensive in evros is a huge plus, freeing-up attention placed on other areas, being that we are the smaller of the 2 nations and a defensive turkish posture in evros is more of an advantage for Greece than for turkey. "

Fantaros, I agree mostly with what you said. Except, IMO in a 1 on 1 scenario, the war in Thrace won't be a stalemate. Despite losses, I believe that the Turkish army CURRENTLY has the ability to push forward.

However as you have said, 400 M1A1's would definitely change things a lot... As a Greek, of course you would love this. You or any other Greek would at least want that the forces should be balanced and that the Turks shouldn't be able to invade Greek territory...

Well, I'm not saying this to piss you off or any other Greek, but for me or any other Turk, Greece should be no match at all. It is SO 1920's for a Turko-Greek war to be "balanced". We have 7 times more population than you now, and a growing industry and GDP. For me, an acceptable situation is, Turkey should have AT LEAST x2 - x3 advantage over Greeks not only in terms of quantity, but also in terms of quantity. We are in a more hotzone and surrounded with much more considerable enemies anyway and IMO our military strength should have been at a much higher level. What is exceptable for me is, we should be more than a match for Greece + Israel combined...

Of course this doesn't mean I favour war. I am old enough and smart enough to know that wars are not like video games anyway, and believe it or not I would not want an inch of land from another country. (Yes, even those nice islands happy.gif ) But I simply believe that we should have the capability to do so if some neighbors of us try to f*ck with us. In the current situation, can Turkey handle a full scale war vs Greece AND Israel? Honestly no... I do not think that we would let our land get invaded, but most of our airforce, navy and army would be completely gone.

So, as you see, I'm already not happy with the current situation. a + 400 M1A1 to the Greek side should not only receive a "counter" by us, it should be more than a counter. We should be getting x2 of this just as "response". happy.gif Maybe that can teach the Greeks not to buy such additional hardware.

[linked image]

 
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WAFFer
(Login Stealthcloak)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 1:44 PM 

Wolf, all you say sound pretty fair and rational. However, the only thing I may add is that the whole scenario will be carried out mostly on Greek territory. That alone leads to the factor that known by heart waters and ground will be used on Greek advantage, and I think this is something that can heavily shape the outcome. To be honest, the game will be between airforces and navy, maybe some MBTs too, troops won't even be on time to be deployed.

 
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(Login Aksakal1073)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 1:51 PM 

For me personally i would love the Tanks to go to greece a poison chalice happy.gif, unless new build then advantage to them well done i would say.

 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 4:15 PM 

@Wolf

Just so I understand your position correctly, your premise is that US tank forces are mediocre at best and the only reasons that it wasn't a complete bloodbath for the US in GW1 was that...
  1. That in all the world throughout all time, Iraq is the most incompetent military force ever fielded.
  2. The Iraqi's fielded a special T-72M, seen nowhere else in the world, specially made to be inferior to all other models of T-72 ever produced.
  3. All Iraqi AFVs claimed by M1 crews, were in reality killed by air assets of the coalition.
...is that about right?

I would remind you that the primary reason that T-72's are being discussed in this thread is that various WAFFers have claimed that M1A1's are pretty much useless garbage, despite the fact that when it comes to battle testing the M1A1 has seen far far more combat (including tank on tank engagements) than any other 3rd generation MBT.


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
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WAFFer
(Login Stealthcloak)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 4:29 PM 

@ Aksakal

You play Scourge in WoW? :P

 
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WAFFer
(Login Serkan999)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 4:38 PM 

Coalie is the owned here. A Canadian fully Exaggerating the M1 and the battles in the damn flat Iraqi desert lol. What a damn tool. I had a good chuckle when I looked back and checked my post from yesterday. Me being the basement dweller,not a chance. That will be star wars fan coalie for sure. I bet he feels cozy watching star wars in his pyama under a blanket with soda and candy. Basement raging hard when I troll him haha.

[linked image]

Adler
8/6/2011 11:46:53 AMAs a non Muslim German Student there are some facts that I know about Iran:- If Israel attack Iran it will be the beginning of an end for the Zionist regime.- If NATO (puppet of USrael) target Iran they have to count with the highest and biggest casualties ever!- And I know if I could get there I would fight for Iran

 
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(Login Serkan999)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 4:57 PM 

What does Iran have to do with this? A new formed country sanctioned and against the whole world who supported Iraq. Generals were either executed or were not serving the army anymore and the army consisted of regular volunteers. Iraqis were poorly trained and could not even maintain their military equipment,as quoted in tons of internet sources. Infidels are really good at exaggerating their enemies strength and when the time comes they also use the:dumb arabs can't do sh!t card. So it basically depends on the infidel strategy and how far they go on the internet trying to be high morale knight who want's to be correct all the damn time lol. The Americans spended billions a month in their wars in the middle-east. What does American warfare have to do with the Greek army and what kind of role the M1a1 will play in their army.

http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=6781&d=1181168133
http://www.irandefence.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=6783&d=1181168166


Whole new ball game.



Oops,phuck it,lets get out of our tanks and start running. Lol. That is basically the Iraqi T72 for you. Coalie just wants to keep his infidel spirit high.

[linked image]

Adler
8/6/2011 11:46:53 AMAs a non Muslim German Student there are some facts that I know about Iran:- If Israel attack Iran it will be the beginning of an end for the Zionist regime.- If NATO (puppet of USrael) target Iran they have to count with the highest and biggest casualties ever!- And I know if I could get there I would fight for Iran

 
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(Login Serkan999)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 5:06 PM 

Damn now thats war footage. RPG's and bullets from 400 meters wizz by. Tanks just driving around LMAO. What kind of upgrade can't take a damn RPG? You engage trenches not circle around in panic lol. How is your infidel spirit doing coalie?

[linked image]

Adler
8/6/2011 11:46:53 AMAs a non Muslim German Student there are some facts that I know about Iran:- If Israel attack Iran it will be the beginning of an end for the Zionist regime.- If NATO (puppet of USrael) target Iran they have to count with the highest and biggest casualties ever!- And I know if I could get there I would fight for Iran

 
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Duke Nukem
(Login BLUE-GHOST)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 5:47 PM 

so 154 posts about the new turkish obsession with the M1 being a piece of junk.

well done !

PS. let me guess, if the turks were instead offered the M1 we would have 500 gloat-posts, or am I wrong?



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Duke Nukem
(Login BLUE-GHOST)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 5:51 PM 

the Altay eats Abrams for breakfast !

[linked image]

happy now turkos? cheer up a bit, ur dyck is going to fall on the ground.

[linked image]

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Wolf_Kanuni
(Login Wolf_Kanuni)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 6:13 PM 

@Coalde:

No you are wrong about your assumptions about my position.

* US tank forces are one of the best, if not the best in the world.

* I'm not sure about alltime, but Iraqis military is the most incompetent one I can think of in the 20th and 21st century wars.

* T-72M's are maybe not inferior compared to T-72's, but compared to M1A1, they were...  However, the most important thing here is

 the personnel who used them were inferior. 

* I'm not saying all Iraqi armour is destroyed by air assets.  But one cannot deny the most important factor of not only the outcome of this war, but also the reason why so little casualties were given...  And that is air superiority.  But another important reason is that the Iraqis sucked BIG TIME.  Look, I'm not claiming the US were mediocre or anything.  Surely, their equipment, training level, logistics, etc... were top notch.  But IF the Iraqis were worthy opponents, they would definitely cause more casualties.  That is for sure.  I mean 1 loss vs thousands, wtf?  What is YOUR opinion about this then?  That the Iraqis were good but US Army are just uber humans?

Oh and I am not one of those claiming that M1A1 is garbage.  They surely are one of the best tanks in the world.

@Stealthcloak:

In the current situation, it seems like the war would be in Greek land yes.  But if they get this 400 M1A1 soon, and another 400 later, coupled with for example air & navy assets, how can you be sure that they won't be on the offensive side?  All I am saying is we should be careful, and not only counter such purchases of Greek army, but we should make them regret about it.  They get 400 M1A1's?  We should then build an additional 800 Altays...

IMO, with this new anti-Israel policy of AKP, we should build a much stronger army.  We must be able to AT LEAST hold on our ground vs a full scale war with Greece + Israel.  Right now we cannot counter the F-15's of Israel, because I assume we never thought they could be a threat.  We should keep this in mind for our 5th gen. fighter aircraft purchase.



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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 6:26 PM 

@Wolf

Do you have a better example than the first Gulf War of tank on tank combat involving 3rd Generation MBTs? As far as I know the first Gulf War (and to a lesser extent OIF) is the only example of 3rd Generation tanks in action against other tanks (I do not believe there was any tank on tank action in the Russian/Georgia conflict). So despite the calls of irrelevance from various WAFFers, GWI is still the best actual data that exists of the performance of 3rd Generation tanks in battle.

Now do I think the US tank crews would have enjoyed the same kill ratio had those been Russian manned T-72s...not even in my wildest dreams (which usually involve lots of naked women and very few tanks... wink.gif ). Do I think the US tank forces still would have won against Russian manned T-72s? I do indeed, however I will not speculate as to what the losses of each side would look like.


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]


 
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Wolf_Kanuni
(Login Wolf_Kanuni)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 7:26 PM 

It seems then that we mostly agree.  However, I disagree with you about GW being reliable data about engagement of 3rd generation tanks.

Come on Coalde, I know you are smart and a rational person.  Do you seriously believe that if no other example is present, GWI can be considered a reliable data just because of THAT? happy.gif

Take a look at Israeli vs Arab wars for example.  Do you think a scientific analysis can be made regarding the quality of equipments on those wars?  Lack of training, incompetence and also idiocy IMO are greater factors.  I'm pretty sure that, if the Israelis had Russian equipment, they would still PWN the Arabs with similiar loss ratios.

LOL When it comes to Arabs, you should not hope to get a scientific conclusion regarding anything anyway.



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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 7:48 PM 

"It seems then that we mostly agree. However, I disagree with you about GW being reliable data about engagement of 3rd generation tanks. Come on Coalde, I know you are smart and a rational person. Do you seriously believe that if no other example is present, GWI can be considered a reliable data just because of THAT?"

It is actual data and as far as I know the only example of 3rd Generation MBT's in combat against other tanks. And you are welcome to say that the Iraqi's were incompetent, but it does not change the fact that M1's were actually hit by Iraqi 125mm projectiles tank cannons at various ranges and were not taken out of action.

"Take a look at Israeli vs Arab wars for example. Do you think a scientific analysis can be made regarding the quality of equipments on those wars? Lack of training, incompetence and also idiocy IMO are greater factors. I'm pretty sure that, if the Israelis had Russian equipment, they would still PWN the Arabs with similiar loss ratios. LOL When it comes to Arabs, you should not hope to get a scientific conclusion regarding anything anyway."

Again it is the only actual data/facts we have regarding the performance of 3rd Generation tanks in action against other tanks...you are certainly welcome to argue that the M1's performance in GW1 should have absolutely no bearing upon predicting how well the M1 will perform elsewhere against anything or anyone...but then that is merely your opinion (without any basis in real facts), and everyone is entitled to have an opinion.


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
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(Login ontyseas)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 7:54 PM 

although i strongly oppose the acquisition of used material and i long ago expected to see a diversity in terms of our suppliers so we will not solely depend on the US or any other country to cover our needs , although i also anticipated to develop our domestic industries and produce our own material the reality right now is completely different

we have found ourselves into a very difficult financial situation due to the treason and theft of PASOK and NEA DIMOCRATIA which did not only fail to capitalize on the development of our domestic military industries but they ruthlessly spend our money to briberies and expensive military material which did not cover in many cases our needs.

Having to fave those bitter realities the acquisition of Abrams although not an ideal solution it is practically speaking one of the few realistic solutions which has been left to us.

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ODYSSEUS KILLING THE SUITORS


 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 8:10 PM 

"Coalie is the owned here."

Hmmm...well you may say as youwish bout me, however I am not so insecure as to attempt to claim who has been owned and so forth, I leave that to reader to decide...of course children will always claim victory no matter how soundly they get thrashed...that is why I like you so much SB, you remind me of my 8 year old nephew.

"A Canadian fully Exaggerating the M1 and the battles in the damn flat Iraqi desert lol."

The facts and sources are there for all to read...there is no exaggeration...except from you below...

"What a damn tool. I had a good chuckle when I looked back and checked my post from yesterday. Basement raging hard when I troll him haha."

So what you are saying is that you are indeed a child troll who just makes most things you post up, primarily to get some kind of interaction with other human beings...well that certainly describes an anti-social basement dweller with limited social skills and perhaps an over protective mother...of course you have just admitted to being all of that, which kind of makes this statement by you a lie, "Me being the basement dweller,not a chance."

My suggestion would be that you develop some social skills and perhaps step out from your mothers shadow (I know that is scary, but trust me it is a necessary step) and then perhaps just maybe you will not be a loser living in your parents basement (playing with dolls...err, "collectibles") throughout your adult life.

"Oops,phuck it,lets get out of our tanks and start running. Lol. That is basically the Iraqi T72 for you. Coalie just wants to keep his infidel spirit high. Damn now thats war footage. RPG's and bullets from 400 meters wizz by. Tanks just driving around LMAO. What kind of upgrade can't take a damn RPG? You engage trenches not circle around in panic lol. "

Sorry, but generally when you knock out a tank with an RPG, smoke comes out of the tank...there is no smoke coming from the only T-72 in that video as the crew bails out...I suspect they got it got bogged down...so we are still waiting for video of the, "few Iranian teens who were at the front took out 30 Iraqi tanks alone sitting in trenches shooting RPG's" that you claimed existed. When you post it we can discuss that matter.

...until then I would suggest that you return to your mother's shadow and entertain yourself with your dolls...err, collectibles, as every post of yours seems to further prove me entirely right about you...that is called self-ownage and I believe that you have indeed reached "Jedi Master" status in that particular talent...


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]



    
This message has been edited by coalde_one on Oct 3, 2011 8:28 PM


 
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WAFFer
(Login Zeus33)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 10:28 PM 

THE M1A1 ABRAMS INTEGRATED MANAGEMENT MAIN BATTLE TANK

  • Duringoperations in Iraq the M1A1 clearly demonstrated it has the necessary firepower, mobility and survivability to achieve dominance on the battlefield as part of a combined arms team.
  • The M1A1 demonstrated its effectiveness in Iraq on many occasions. In one instance an M1A1 took a direct hit to the ammunition storage area, all of the rounds inside were detonated, however the crew survived and carried on with their mission.
  • Australian Warrant Officer Joe Day who was serving on exchange with the US Marine Corps 1st Light Armoured Reconnaissance Battalion during operations in Iraq commented that from his observations the M1A1 was the 'king of the battlefield and that light armour and infantry couldn't survive without tanks and guns'.
  • Warrant Officer Day also saw an M1A1 take a direct hit from an Iraqi T- 62 and then continue on and destroy the enemy tank.
  • The motor and transmission on the M1A1 performed so well in Iraq on the very long drives through difficult terrain that the US Tank Automotive and Armaments Command are not planning any further work on trying to extend the transmission hours as they do not need it.
  • The M1A1 AIM vehicle that Australia will procure will not be equipped with either Depleted Uranium armour or munitions. The armour on offer is of an advanced composite design, which is in accord with our capability requirements.
  • The new tank will fire an advanced kinetic energy Tungsten penetrator against vehicles and a multi-purpose round for infantry support. The tank is powered by a gas turbine engine, the AGT-1500. Gas turbine engines, including the AGT-1500, are truly multi-fuel. They offer excellent power/weight ratios compared to diesel engines.
  • They have a very good cold-start capability (unlike a diesel), with smooth torque and low vibration (an advantage for crews and sensitive onboard systems). The gas turbine motor is also substantially quieter than a traditional diesel tank engine ( like that in a Leopard 1). Additional tactical refuelling trucks to provide fuel for the tanks in the field are included in the $A550m package.

Outside of the US Army and US Marine Corps the M1A1 is operated by Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

"Warrant Officer Day also saw an M1A1 take a direct hit from an Iraqi T- 62 and then continue on and destroy the enemy tank"

http://www.defence.gov.au/minister/Hilltpl.cfm?CurrentId=3643

No matter how incompetent Iraqi tank crews may have being. A direct hit is still a direct hit. happy.gif

 



[linked image]

 
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(Login Ararat_is_Mine)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 10:41 PM 

400 Abrams given to Greece for free! What did the toorks get? 3 worn out heli's and they don't even want them...ROTF

400 Abrams to poke holes in toorkish arse, or should I say poke bigger holes...LOL

400 more to follow is overkill but guess what, these are very good tanks. What do the toorks have an M60..wow this may impress a donkey but then again that is what they want to do...ROTF

Look how they train for special tank warfare...ROTF



See how they ram it home...(holding side in pain)

HAW HAW

 
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Wolf_Kanuni
(Login Wolf_Kanuni)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 3 2011, 10:41 PM 

I'm not even questioning whether M1A1 is a better tank than T-72 or not.  Surely it is...  But I don't agree that it is at the level of GW1 combat data...  Comparing these 2 tanks based on GW1 data is like comparing 2 cars based on a race when I am the driver of one of them and Schumacher is the driver of the other.  In the GW1, skill and training were not the only factors either.  Air superiority and air support was the deciding factor of many land battles as well.

A direct hit isn't always a direct hit.  The place and the angle of the hit also matters.  And if the incompetent Iraqis were not incompetent and if there was no air superiority, we would see more hits and more M1A1 casualties for sure



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(Login Hamza67)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 4 2011, 12:44 AM 

all in all its a nice practice target for our umtas and omtas missiles...

[linked image]


[linked image]

for greeks attention: i looks like a dildo but its not! be carefull playing with it :P


--------------------------------------
[linked image]
STKRAR SÜRSÜN diyen dinsizler...1999 ylnda PKK kendini fes etme karar ald.. 2000 ylnda 0 ehit, 2001 ylnda 0 ehit Veeeeeeeeeeeee AKP hükumeti balyor
2002 de 13 ehit
.........2003 de 21 ehit
2004 de 73 ehit
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2009 da 135 ehit
2010 da 141 ehit
Tayyip'in ustalk dönemi ..... Bir ayda 60 Sehit
..........................................Durmak Yok Yola Devam....teröriste gerilla diyene alkis, askere Hapis!!! Baris analari Kandile, Güneydogu Özerklige, Apo EV Hapsine,Yasasin Demokrasi, Yasasin Acilim , Yasa AKP, Yasa Demokratik Türkiye Cumhuriyeti...



    
This message has been edited by Hamza67 on Oct 4, 2011 12:46 AM


 
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(Login Ararat_is_Mine)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 4 2011, 12:49 AM 

"for greeks attention: i looks like a dildo but its not! be carefull playing with it :P "

LOL leave it to a toork to speak about a dildo again...LOL



I think the rest of the toorks in seekimstan might like that dildo, oops I mean a fake plastic thing...? Yes the Dilo...(holding side in pain)

400 Abrams later and you can question what you want...LOL

And the first question on a toorks mind is a Dildo...ROTF

HAW HAW

 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 4 2011, 1:37 AM 

"Comparing these 2 tanks based on GW1 data is like comparing 2 cars based on a race when I am the driver of one of them and Schumacher is the driver of the other."

That might be true, however comparing the Altay to the M1 is like comparing an F1 car to the vehicles in Speedracer...the movie, or cartoon, your choice...

"In the GW1, skill and training were not the only factors either. Air superiority and air support was the deciding factor of many land battles as well. A direct hit isn't always a direct hit. The place and the angle of the hit also matters. And if the incompetent Iraqis were not incompetent and if there was no air superiority, we would see more hits and more M1A1 casualties for sure."

Well that is all fine and good...except that when the M1A1's and T-72's actually met on the field there was no CAS in the area, do want to know how I know that? Because I guarantee you that if those T-72's were taken by CAS aircraft the pilots of those aircraft and not the tank crews would be claiming all those kills, wouldn't they?

Again I will repeat, GWI is the only real world example of the performance of any western 3rd Generation MBT in tank on tank combat...so you are certainly welcome to say that Turkish M48A5's will achieve a 400:0 kill ratio against Greek M1A1's, you are certainly entitled to your opinion...however the MOST PERTINENT REAL WORLD FACTS seem to indicate that the kill ratio will be almost entirely the reverse.



[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]



    
This message has been edited by coalde_one on Oct 4, 2011 4:23 AM


 
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WAFFer
(Login Zeus33)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 4 2011, 3:25 AM 

"A direct hit isn't always a direct hit. The place and the angle of the hit also matters."

Fair enough dude.

" And if the incompetent Iraqis were not incompetent and if there was no air superiority, we would see more hits and more M1A1 casualties for sure"

pure speculation nothing more. Don't forget the place and the angle of the hit also matters.happy.gif

 

 

 

 



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Wolf_Kanuni
(Login Wolf_Kanuni)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 4 2011, 7:30 AM 

^^

Yep, and if the Iraqis weren't so incompetent and there wasn't such an air superiority we would see more shots from the Iraqi side and the quantity of the hits that fall to the right place & angle would increase. wink.gif

Just look at this video and watch it from 6:00. And tell me how much of an idiot one has to be to expose the flanks without actually firing, but while they are in range for M1A1's:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC8-IexHIR8

With such idiocy, I doubt the Iraqi tanks were able to shoot more than a handful of rounds.

quote:

That might be true, however comparing the Altay to the M1 is like comparing an F1 car to the vehicles in Speedracer...the movie, or cartoon, your choice...


Altay tank is a different discussion. Yet, at the time being, while there is no Altay yet, yes you are right. It is silly to discuss the performance of a non-existent tank.

quote:

Well that is all fine and good...except that when the M1A1's and T-72's actually met on the field there was no CAS in the area, do want to know how I know that? Because I guarantee you that if those T-72's were taken by CAS aircraft the pilots of those aircraft and not the tank crews would be claiming all those kills, wouldn't they?


You can't know for sure. The Iraqis had many tanks. It is quite possible that while half of them were taken out by air assets, other half could be taken out by M1A1's.

quote:

Again I will repeat, GWI is the only real world example of the performance of any western 3rd Generation MBT in tank on tank combat...so you are certainly welcome to say that Turkish M48A5's will achieve a 400:0 kill ratio against Greek M1A1's, you are certainly entitled to your opinion...however the MOST PERTINENT REAL WORLD FACTS seem to indicate that the kill ratio will be almost entirely the reverse.


LOL when did I, or anyone else claim that the M48A5's would achieve a 400:0 kill ratio over M1's? That is pure nonsense. The comparison of M1 here is with T72... And many times I agreed that M1A1 is definitely a better tank. I just disagreed about GW1 being perfectly pertinent example in a point of comparing both tanks on equal terms.



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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 4 2011, 5:07 PM 

"You can't know for sure. The Iraqis had many tanks. It is quite possible that while half of them were taken out by air assets, other half could be taken out by M1A1's."

Well actually it is pretty frowned upon in the military to claim kills that are not yours. Personally I would suspect that well over half of the Iraqi AFVs lost in GWI were taken by coalition aerial assets. However that does not change the fact that when tank on tank engagements occurred the Iraqis usually had 2:1 (or higher) odds in number, in their favour.

"LOL when did I, or anyone else claim that the M48A5's would achieve a 400:0 kill ratio over M1's? That is pure nonsense. The comparison of M1 here is with T72... And many times I agreed that M1A1 is definitely a better tank."

That was more for some of the other wankers...err, WAFFers. wink.gif

"I just disagreed about GW1 being perfectly pertinent example in a point of comparing both tanks on equal terms."

Well I don't think I ever claimed it was the perfect example either, however it is the best example we have of the performance of western 3rd Generation tanks against other tanks...and in a combat zone there is no such thing as perfectly equal... wink.gif


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]


 
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(Login TheConqueror1453)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 4 2011, 11:58 PM 

Stupid argument is, well, stupid...
Please, elaborate.

Greeks can use Leo2s For civil unrest or when the debt collectors come to town but will not be with M1A1 lol

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"Gericilere hosgörü göstermek yüce bir terbiye gösterisi degil,bir milletin Mutluluguna,Serefine ve Namusuna Göz dikenlere hosgörüdür ki,Hiçbir zaman,Hiçbir kisi buna izin veremez!"
~ M. Kemal Atatürk


    
This message has been edited by TheConqueror1453 on Oct 5, 2011 12:00 AM


 
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Coalde
(Login coalde_one)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 5 2011, 12:58 AM 

"Greeks can use Leo2s For civil unrest or when the debt collectors come to town but will not be with M1A1 lol "

Thank you for that rather cryptic, pointless and off topic message...I think someone just insulted your pet duck from when you were 7 in another thread...shouldn't you be whining in the HSC forum? ...followed by further whining that no one is doing anything about such a heinous crime?


[linked image]"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die
[linked image]


 
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WAFFer
(Login Fantaros)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 5 2011, 1:14 AM 

Wolf, thanks for the honest response. Now..............


"Well, I'm not saying this to piss you off or any other Greek, but for me or any other Turk, Greece should be no match at all. It is SO 1920's for a Turko-Greek war to be "balanced". We have 7 times more population than you now, and a growing industry and GDP"


Greece is LUCKY because of geography. We do not share a long land border with turkey and our side of the Evros is mountainous and hilly, your side is low lying and full of swamps. What this means is our side is excellent for defense and is loaded with high-ground advantage. Even back in 1974 during the Cyprus crisis NATO observers had stated that Thrace would be a stalemate. It's not because we have more troops, its because of geography and because of mass-condensed armaments in a relatively "small" area. Then you have the situation out at sea. You could have 400 million population and that means nothing out at sea and of course in air operations as well. The major risk is Evros and we are able to concentrate alot there because our border with you is not very long and the terrain, from a defensive standpoint is advantageous. You can launch invasions against the islands, but of course those would be amphibious and/or airborne and those are definitely not the same as a massive land invasion and are much more costlier for the attacker.

 
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WAFFer
(Login TitansRus)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 5 2011, 2:06 AM 

I'm still suspicious about the words "grant" and "free". The US will be giving away 7% of it's total tank force to us... These 400 tanks are most probably ex-Iraq war, heavily used, and need of an overhaul. I believe that just to transport them to Greece will cost $6-8 million and to get them into useable condition will cost about $40 million ($50k-120k per tank). This is the same or more then we payed for the surplus Leo2A4's if I'm not mistaken.

An up-to-date modernization program for the tanks is estimated at $500k per unit or $200 million. This would probably bring them to at least a Leo2A6 standard. Therefore, in reality we should expect to pay around $50 million for these tanks initially and for the long term another few hundred million for modernization, parts, ammo, etc....





Hellas? Hell YES!

[linked image]



    
This message has been edited by TitansRus on Oct 5, 2011 2:09 AM


 
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(Login cretegeorge)
Group General

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 5 2011, 7:01 AM 

Titan, compared to new price so around 5 billions this is nothing, of course 150 millions right now is for the government also a big amount. The Turks pay I think 350 millions Euros for second hand 298 Leo 2A4 to Germany, so this is our last opportunity to get some modern tanks for next 20 years for Greece in that price range. In the same thread I have mentioned that U.S. army don't ordering new Abrams anymore, they make a general overhaul and upgrading with new upgraded electronic parts to stay up to date.

[linked image]

[linked image]

Turkomans, PKK ownage never ends

[linked image]

 
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WAFFer
(Login Zeus33)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 5 2011, 3:09 PM 

"Greece is LUCKY because of geography. We do not share a long land border with turkey and our side of the Evros is mountainous and hilly, your side is low lying and full of swamps. What this means is our side is excellent for defense and is loaded with high-ground advantage."

Fantaros, Not only do we have high ground advantage, any turkish offensive runs the risk of getting bogged down therefore stranded and can be picked off very easily.



[linked image]

 
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WAFFer
(Login Fantaros)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 5 2011, 10:03 PM 

That would be affirmative Zeus.

[linked image]?t=1285050530


    
This message has been edited by Fantaros on Oct 5, 2011 10:05 PM


 
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(Login vlix)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 6 2011, 11:32 AM 

There are some interesging issues addressed here, regarding GW1 and real combat performance of equipment and personel.

Read the following, it has interesting info about the Iraqis too. It is an analysis of how the coalition forces achieved so low losses, lower ever in history of big conflicts.

http://www.comw.org/rma/fulltext/victory.html


cheers
vlix

 
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(Login Temren)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 6 2011, 7:09 PM 

Do people really believe this BS? Really?

See this site that shows the entire military deals USA has signed lately

http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/36b_index.htm

M1A1s to greece are not included

You won't get any tanks. Go back to beggin' [linked image]


[linked image]

 
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Ottoman
(Login Ottomandominion)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 6 2011, 10:31 PM 

Do you in your right mind really believe that USA will give them for free and if not do you really believe that EU will let you pay for it? THe tank costs well over 3,2 million each. that would make the deal 1,5billion. NO money malaka, what the hell are you dreaming about? Get over it.

 
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(Login cretegeorge)
Group General

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 7 2011, 4:24 PM 

Where are your 3 AH-1W Cobras?

http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/36b_index.htm


[linked image] [linked image]


[linked image]

[linked image]

Turkomans, PKK ownage never ends

[linked image]

 
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Kamil
(Login Tatar)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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October 31 2011, 9:14 PM 

When will Greece start receiving these tanks?



Türkiye Türklerindir!

 
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(Login cretegeorge)
Group General

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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July 11 2012, 1:57 AM 

CLOWN LOOK THE FIRST PART FROM THREAD
http://www.network54.com/Forum/248068/thread/1317185771/The+U-S-+approved+to+grant+400+M1A1+Abrams+to+Greece


The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece

[linked image]

Promotes the selection of 400 Abrams tanks under the General Staff Chief, after approval of the grant from the U.S..(US Army)

Proprietary information magazine "Greek Defense & Technology" report that was recently approved by the U.S. authorities to grant of 400 M1A1 Abrams tanks, which will include options between simple "renovation» (refurbishment)-worth tens of millions dollars for all the tanks, and upgrading to a higher level of operational capacity, with a corresponding cost burden. The relative Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LOA) is expected soon.
Also exclusive information "RDT" report that was sent to U.S. authorities question "Price and Availability" ("R & D") for 20 Amphibious Vehicles Induction AAV7A1 to upgrade low cost. This is the first step coverage of an operational requirement for 75-100 vehicles altogether.
Additional exclusive details on these requirements as well as for armored infantry fighting vehicles Bradley, in a forthcoming issue of "RDT".
http://www.hellenicdefence.gr/eidiseis/e2011/110929c.html

[linked image]


Turkish planing of indigenous projects [linked image]

[linked image]

April/21/2012
Turkey is not like China. Turkey is, just like Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal.
www.hurriyetdailynews.com

 
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WAFFer
(Login Jagare)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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July 11 2012, 5:29 AM 

by the love of god. When will reallity hit you ? of course you guys can sit bye and waite for these scrap metall another 20 years and keep talking about " ownage " ....

 
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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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July 11 2012, 5:43 AM 

Creten, remember we have a deal!

If by the end of the first quarter in 2013 the tanks are not arrived you will have a nice Turkish flag in your signature that I choose!

--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
[linked image]

 
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(Login ELWAPO)
Eagle Squadron (US)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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July 11 2012, 6:39 AM 

Shovelboy got his azz handed to him by coalde!

He's just too dumb to know it.

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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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February 4 2013, 3:02 PM 

BUMP!!!

Creten, remember we have a deal!

If by the end of the first quarter in 2013 the tanks are not arrived you will have a nice Turkish flag in your signature that I choose!


--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
[linked image]

 
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WAFFer
(Login littlefascist)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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February 4 2013, 6:27 PM 

still waiting...

 
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WAFFer
(Login Combat_Master)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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February 4 2013, 6:55 PM 

You think the cretan schitpile will honour this bet? [linked image]



Griks In Despair
[linked image]

 
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(Login kutsanan)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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February 4 2013, 8:00 PM 

Crete

we got our Cobra s and we are operating. We completed 2 Altay prototype. We are testing our first bacth t-129 s. we are testing our air defence missiles. we are testing our At missile familiy.

i want to ask you where is your M1A1 s????

 
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(Login coolmorris)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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February 4 2013, 8:09 PM 

GOOGLE:

M1 ABRAMS COJONO EH


Remember: Tanks and technology alone does not defer complete dominance.

Imagine if the Iraqis were the VietCong, armed and equipped as the Iraqis.

Do you think the fighting would be different?

I thinks so

 
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Nutuk
(Login nutuk)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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February 4 2013, 8:42 PM 

Cretan is a magician, he made the barrel of the tank dissapear.

I don't tell you where.

--------------------------------------------
Turkiye Turklerindir (Mustafa Kemal Ataturk)
[linked image]

 
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WAFFer
(Login Jagare)
Imperium Europeum (Europe)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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February 4 2013, 9:06 PM 

Lucky we didnt hold out breath... this whole debacle is a micro description of how greeks are :D

 
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WAFFer
(Login alex2727)
WAFFer

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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February 5 2013, 5:58 AM 

I think cretan left the forum:))and will not come untill Abrams come to greece...so it s like leaving forum forever... happy.gif)

 
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Musti82
(Login Musti82)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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February 5 2013, 11:24 AM 

I can approve some free M1A1s to Greece myself too! happy.gif

[linked image]

 
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(Login Combat_Master)
The Redcoats (UK)

Re: The U.S. approved to grant 400 M1A1 Abrams to Greece-Part2

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February 8 2013, 8:07 AM 

I saw you login, cretan schit, honour the bet you dirty grik! Acknowledge the bet!



Griks In Despair
[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Combat_Master on Feb 8, 2013 8:10 AM


 
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