Why do the Turks just not save?
April/21/2012
Whats the main difference between Turkey and China? Simple. China is a high-growth country with high savings. Turkey is a high-growth country with low savings. The numbers are very clear on this issue. The result: Chinas growth produces a high current account surplus. Turkeys growth widens the current account deficit, currently at historic levels. The topic of a recent World Bank report on Turkey is just this: Why do the Turks just not save?

Lets take a look at the figures. Turkeys domestic saving rate declined from about 25 percent in the 1980s to 12 percent in 2010. So the domestic savings rate was halved in the last 30 years. But there is also a decline within the decline. The domestic savings rate first decreased from 25 percent in 1980 to 15 percent in 2003, and then took a sharper dive to 12 percent by 2010.

I presume that the first decline is a direct result of the European Union accession process. As in the accession processes of Greece, Portugal and Spain, the EU lifted Turkeys borrowing constraint with the start of the accession process. The relative economic stability, as depicted by the decline in inflation figures from 80 percent to 8 percent between 2000 and 2003, as well as the decline in public sector borrowing requirements, are important contributing factors.

All these developments relaxed constraints to borrowing. Turks could now spend their future incomes. That was the first driver of the decline.

The further decline from 2003 to 2010 could be explained by policies enhancing domestic demand. There was a significant increase in budget expenditures to cope with the crisis of 2008. Despite the strong output recovery process in 2009, the level of budget expenditures stayed at the level to which it had previously increased. Why? Simple. The volume of frozen expenditures, like new public employment, was increased. There is the second decline. The fever had gone down, but the doctor kept prescribing medication.

Third, there is a structural element. Turks do save, but they save by buying homes. Spending money is saving money. Turks consider buying a home as an investment. Like buying bonds on the market. You buy it and wait for its value to appreciate and hope youre not getting yourself into a bubble. Why is that so?

If you ask me, enhancing domestic savings, i.e., savings accumulated in financial markets, is directly related with urbanization policies in Turkey, specifically the zoning policies of municipalities that obsessively focus on unearned rent. The lack of coherent rules in zoning gives way to economic rents, turning housing expenditures into lucrative investment opportunities.

Role of internal migration

Appreciated value of housing investmnet can also be considered as a positive wealth effect that brings a search in domestic consumption.

Urbanization policy up until now has been designed to cope with internal migration. Its sole objective is enriching migrants to let them find their gold stash without equipping them with skills. That worked in the 1980s and 1990s, but it wont anymore.

Now is the time for more consistent, modern zoning policies that will put an end to political patronage. We need livable cities where people can plan for their future without speculating on a rollercoaster housing market.

A stronger Turkish economy requires a stronger domestic savings base. A stronger domestic savings base, in turn, requires a coherent urbanization strategy.

Turkey is not like China. It is a high growth country with low savings. That is a big difference. China is not in the Mediterranean. Turkey is, just like Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal. You cannot change your geography.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/why-do-the-turks-just-not-save.aspx?pageID=238&nID=18928&NewsCatID=403




Turkish planing of indigenous projects

Turkey is not like China. It is a high growth country with low savings. That is a big difference. China is not in the Mediterranean. Turkey is, just like Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal. You cannot change your geography.




Turkish planing of indigenous projects

I have a feeling of deja vu here. Huge current account deficits, low savings, too much "investment" in real estate, construction bubble.....
Does this reminds you of something guys?



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"The Turkish Cypriots looted, robbed and ravaged Greek Cypriot properties. They must start producing instead of being mere consumers. The Turkish Cypriots wanted to live without working!"

Major-General Bedrettin Demirel (1917-1988)
Commander of the Turkish Invasion Forces in 1974

http://www.gultekinparlak.co.uk/2012/03/22/wsj-turk-hukumeti-yastikalti-altini-hedefliyor/

Why don't you check this article then you can see if Turkey saves his money or not, in article you can see only gold reserves of households are estimated around 400 billion dollars, if this is not saving what is? To invest in Greek bonds?

turkiye has no huge defecit like greece has, she does not borrow money like its no tomorrow or nothing.

We do not speak about budget deficit, or public fiscal deficit gentlemen.
We talk about CURRENT ACCOUNT DEFICIT. Is there not a Turk here with elementary understanding of basic macroeconomics?

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"The Turkish Cypriots looted, robbed and ravaged Greek Cypriot properties. They must start producing instead of being mere consumers. The Turkish Cypriots wanted to live without working!"

Major-General Bedrettin Demirel (1917-1988)
Commander of the Turkish Invasion Forces in 1974

there are 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide. Turkey is their leader. They've love and compassion for Turkey, every one of them. From Java island to Morocco.
That's why Turkey will go on to grow.

Turks are Chosen People by Divinity.
Things will just turn to be better for Turks in the near future.

Wait & See.

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Evolution... or how making fun of human intelligence:

"dogs jump into the sea and become whales"

^^only that 10 million jews are more powerful than 1,6 billion Muslims ...

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''there are 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide. Turkey is their leader. They've love and compassion for Turkey, every one of them. From Java island to Morocco.
That's why Turkey will go on to grow.

Turks are Chosen People by Divinity.
Things will just turn to be better for Turks in the near future.

Wait & See.''

So Turkey is the leader of the arab league, iran, afghanistan and all the other muslims states?Do you hear yourself talk? Qatar can buy Turkey 15 times. You're the leaders of ****, most of the arabic states hate you since the Ottomans were their opressors, here i'll give you something to remember
Turkey doesn't go by the laws of the Quran, they are disrespectful to other religions, they turn sacred buildings(churches) into mosques and stables for horses(cyprus), you are the least respected people in the muslim community.

1.6 billion muslims but we have a lower GDP then Germany wich is only 80 million. Who the fvck cares if poor 3rd world countries like Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan loves you? They have no wealth, economy, political or military strength.


Keep thinking their love means something to us LOL


Muslims are unproductive, there is not a single muslim innovation in the past 1000 years that the world used. How many muslim companies are in the Top 2000 Forbes list outside Turkish ones and oil-money sponsored Gulf companies? Where is 200 million muslim infested Bangladesh?

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Next time there is no next time

all muslims on earth are munafiiikkk, they use computers designed and produced by infidel America. The processor chip in your pc from Intel is Israeli. You use yahudi technology without shame!

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Next time there is no next time

The fact that Muslims are backward, powerless etc.. is part of the miracle that Allah will show the world.
How powerless, backward people will dominate, just as the result of Divine will.

In world's fate, Allah created Muslims as victorious.
So, even if Muslims will go on to be backward, yobaz etc.. that won't change the fact they'll be winner (here and hereafter).

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Evolution... or how making fun of human intelligence:

"dogs jump into the sea and become whales"

Allah the moongod has already showed miracle to the Westerners, they evolved, muslimes didnt. The moongod created the jews and christians as victorious, they're the strongest in the world with the best military and economy. Allah abandoned the muslims, 1500 years and still WAITING LOL

Not all muzlimz are powerless, Turkey and rich Gulf countries are clearly better off then every other muzlim country, but Turkey only makes up 5% of muslim population while the rest 95% of muslims in bangladesh, pakistan, india suffer 3rd worldness.

Allah must be a bastard if he expects the same commitment from every muslim while they have different life quality.

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Next time there is no next time

Yes Crete just COPY paste an article that you cannot understand ...


however our problem would start ...

if Turks start ...SAVING...

why?

Because our economy is now set on SPENDING...

for example

Government spends millions of dollars on Factories to Build Arms ...and Thousands find jobs in those factories ...as well as its side business..

then these people spend their money to buy cars ...etc... and then that sector grows and foreign car companies invest more in Turkiye to open factories or even invest in the currency by doing their transactions in that currency(mercedes benz)

since the foreign companies invest ...this creates more job and there fore decreasing unemployment and increasing growth rate ...

You see Crete ...This economical plan was implemented on USA in 1945...by famous economical figures and experts , prof's

now it still uses the same economical structure .

Turkiye by saving will only Block this exchange mania ...and there fore crush the growth ...

If turkiye's growth stops ...then our account deficit may create a problem ...

with growth our account deficit has no relative problem whatsoever ...because like i said ... we can basically handle the payments ..even though there is a huge dept over there ... By growing our economy with investments and attracting foreign investments ...we are handling the problem very well.

Turkiye's growth will continue for 8-10 years ...up until that level it will be high and steep ...

it will start slowing down with the spending getting low ..and it will continue in a normal level ...

By that time Turkiye's account deficit will be lowered ...and with a stable economy and money exchange ..deficit will be no problem whatsoever .

You cannot understand this Of course ...

you see crete this isnt copy paste ...i am talking about the known .. which is used for Japan, South Korea , China ... now Poland and Turkiye.

OR we should get advice from a country that bankrupted themselves by shopping expensive toys...

they still tell us ...oooh your tanks are bad ...spending all that money while you can buy 10 tanks with that ...


morons cant see the economical effect behind it ...jobs ..growth ...money...they dont understand ..

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Allah the moongod has already showed miracle to the Westerners, they evolved, muslimes didnt. The moongod created the jews and christians as victorious, they're the strongest in the world with the best military and economy. Allah abandoned the muslims, 1500 years and still WAITING
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Allah is Allah, not moon god or whatever. Telling this is the stupid consequence of the logic in my sig.

Allah gives power to the one He wants. That's what Kuran tells.
According to your logics... Pharoah is victorious over Moses, as he was king and extremely rich .. or Nimrod over Abraham?

No of course.
Btw, you tell how Jews are rich and strong.
Jews are cursed; they're traitor grandsons of Prophets. Allah tells Jews sow the seeds of problems in the world.
See... Freud, Marx, Lenin, Trotzky, Feller, Rothschild, ... all Jews. They're demonized.

BTW, even ultra-Kemalists tell that things who happen now in Turkey wouldn't have been "dreamable" only 10 years ago.. yet they happen.
So will be with the promise of Allah.

_________________________________________
Evolution... or how making fun of human intelligence:

"dogs jump into the sea and become whales"

AHAHAHA, your poor knowledge of history amuses me, Marx and Lenin jews :')... You have the mentality of a 5 year old. And the knowledge of someone who lives isolated in a desert, Marx and Lenin were atheist as most of the communist leaders.

^ Moron, in Kuran, it's not told "Jews" but "sons of Israel".
Kuran is talking about a race; not "the followers of Moses". So "Jew" according to Islam is "sons of Israel".

Otherwise I know Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Freud, Rothschild and co are all atheist.
Atheist Jews.

You need to learn that Jew isn't only religion, before trying to make fun of me with your below 90 IQ level, moron.

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Evolution... or how making fun of human intelligence:

"dogs jump into the sea and become whales"

You say allah will make the weak and backward muslims strong in the end

Yes but... not every muslim is weak and backward, and not every weak and backward country is muslim. Turkey is richer then say Bangladesh, according to this logic it means that allah doesnt know sh1t to who he should grant more powers, coz he favours a little part of his 1.6 billion muslims.

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Next time there is no next time

Mavi kurt kardes :

You seem like one of the few resonable people around. But why are you even trying to explain ANYTHING to these inbreed retards ? A greek can never understand economics, and the reasons are clear. These guys have a image in there head, and they do everything to find news to back there LA LA land claims. Crete the cannibal even reads turkish newspapers for this sake. Screw them, let them squeel in agony while Turkey grows!

Domino,

You're bubbling and it doesn't make sense.
Allah created ppl differently, some have been favoured others lesser. Allah has justice, you'll see it in the hereafter.

What you say is as dumb as asking "why Muhammed Bin Abdullah has been Prophet and not me?" -> Allah chose him.
Or "why are some people healthier, more beautiful than others?" -> Allah wants that way.

Btw,
you're a maniac *******, you've soul-illness moron.
The other day you were in Eskisehir, later in Antwerpen Where are you know?

Ruh hastasi seni.

_________________________________________
Evolution... or how making fun of human intelligence:

"dogs jump into the sea and become whales"

lan kus beyinli, you said the god will grant the weak and backwards muslim victory. God will not give u anything by praying u idiot, some muslims have it better than the other bcoz they have used their brains instead of relying on free gifts from god by praying.

also, why are you obsessed with my location? tonight Ive another date with a muslim moroccan girl I'm seeing, as she is virgin she only lets me fvck her azz, u wanna watch me with a burka girl?

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Next time there is no next time

"Why Turkey is a time bomb?"

Because with time going on it could suddenly wipe out any of its neighbouring countries... it could EXPLODE to one of its neighbours.

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Listen to turkishdominations wise words he is a toilet cleaner in germany

''^ Moron, in Kuran, it's not told "Jews" but "sons of Israel".
Kuran is talking about a race; not "the followers of Moses". So "Jew" according to Islam is "sons of Israel".

Otherwise I know Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Freud, Rothschild and co are all atheist.
Atheist Jews.

You need to learn that Jew isn't only religion, before trying to make fun of me with your below 90 IQ level, moron.''

No you're wrong, Jewdism is not a race, but a religion, uneducated people like you made it into a race, and even IF it was a race, how would Lenin who was of slavonic origin, Marx who was a german, how were these people related to the people Israel you ******* idiot, think before you question my IQ you little ****, arrogant people like you ought to be executed, through out the whole history, the only thing holding technology and development back are religion fanatics.

Whats the main difference between Turkey and China? Simple. China is a high-growth country with high savings. Turkey is a high-growth country with low savings.
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main difference , turkey is somehow democracy and china is not! in a democracy if ppl want to spend, simply they spend, in china one can spend as much as planned and permitted.

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Talat you are talking about Old China i think ... in New China ...Coastal Provinces are Capitalist while Inland China is still Communist this way they contain the investment potential in Coastal Cities and not allow the Foreign countries to invest inland too early... simply they are creating a sustainable economic stance in coastal cities where it is easier to grow ,produce and ship ... while at this time inland countries receive government investments to create base structures for industrialization and connection to coastal cities... By also not allowing the inland to get in to the equation they manage to handle the currency inflation ... (USA HAS HIGH PRESSURE ON THIS ISSUE SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ACT AS IF THEIR ECONOMY IS GLOBAL AND CAPITALIST BUT THEY USE THE COMMUNIST TACTICS TO STABILIZE IT AND NOT ALLOW INFLATION)

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Quote the Bluewolf:

"If turkiye's growth stops ...then our account deficit may create a problem ...

with growth our account deficit has no relative problem whatsoever ...because like i said ... we can basically handle the payments ..even though there is a huge dept over there ... By growing our economy with investments and attracting foreign investments ...we are handling the problem very well."


Do you even know what "CURRENT account deficit" is? You will soon learn it the hard way my friend, just as we did in 2009-2011.

Large current account deficit=unsustainable growth. In other words, BUBBLE.


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"The Turkish Cypriots looted, robbed and ravaged Greek Cypriot properties. They must start producing instead of being mere consumers. The Turkish Cypriots wanted to live without working!"

Major-General Bedrettin Demirel (1917-1988)
Commander of the Turkish Invasion Forces in 1974

if u learned it the hard way, why is your current account deficit still higher then ours? The problem is created by a very high import, ironically many of those imports are part of our growth

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Next time there is no next time

Greek current account deficit was almost as high as the Turkish one in 2011 because of huge payments for old loans.
In the first months of 2012, greek current account deficit shrunk by 44 %. It is already much lower than that of Turkey, and rapidly closing. If Greece stops paying old loans (ie default) then the greek current account deficit becomes zero.

Let us remember that Greece has a very hard currency that we cannot devalue, like Turkey has done with the Lira.



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"The Turkish Cypriots looted, robbed and ravaged Greek Cypriot properties. They must start producing instead of being mere consumers. The Turkish Cypriots wanted to live without working!"

Major-General Bedrettin Demirel (1917-1988)
Commander of the Turkish Invasion Forces in 1974

The fact that Muslims are backward, powerless etc.. is part of the miracle that Allah will show the world.
How powerless, backward people will dominate, just as the result of Divine will.
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lazy no good arap tasak logic

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And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, wellwhat matters it? Believe that, too!
Omar Khayyám

you are time bomb you dont even know mark my words because of Lying and deception you will explode someday

@Gavur

Quoting gavur
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Do you even know what "CURRENT account deficit" is? You will soon learn it the hard way my friend, just as we did in 2009-2011.

Large current account deficit=unsustainable growth. In other words, BUBBLE
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::



gavur ...you truly do not know what Account deficit means dont you? it isnt a bubble ... it isnt unstable growth or anything like you said ...

LOL has no relevant connection whatsoever ...


Definition of 'Current Account Deficit'
Occurs when a country's total imports of goods, services and transfers is greater than the country's total export of goods, services and transfers. This situation makes a country a net debtor to the rest of the world.

Read more:http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/currentaccountdeficit.asp#ixzz1sqTvhQRc

here gavur let me just put this down here ...because i have told you several times and you didnt listen ...hopefully you may believe someone else (that isnt turkish)


now ... since we ALL READY KNOW WE ARE STILL AN IMPORT NATION....

we are trying our best to stop IMPORTING GOODS ...

HOW YOU MAY ASK GAVUR...

Our biggest export is ...SURPRISE SURPRISE ARMS AND ENERGY ....

Since we cannot just create Energy by making our Indigenous OIL...

we are doing the next best option ...

Indigenous Arms industry...

yes by producing our arms

we create Factories,jobs ,investments , exports and yet many more


ok i will quote again to this gavur listen this part carefully ...

Definition of 'Current Account Deficit'
occurs when a country's total imports of goods, services and transfers is greater than the country's total export of goods, services and transfers. This situation makes a country a net debtor to the rest of the world.


You see Gavur by producing our own products ...we cut back on import arms ..which in return will reduce what?

what will be reduced?

what?

yes thats right ...

ACCOUNT DEFICIT...


on the other hand Greece is doomed to account deficit ...

since you people are so eager to buy US , Russian made arms ... your account deficit will always peak up ...


after this economy class gavur ..how about you go back to your Free Tank Posts ...it is obvious you do not understand squat from Monetary system.




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There is no such concept as "account deficit". It is called "current account deficit".

Balance of payments=Capital account + current account balance

Current account balance=Trade balance + Services balance + Income balance + net transfer balance

The idea that your defence industry will solve your current account deficit problem is a little naive. It will help it but it will not solve it. I will analyze it later.


..




"The Turkish Cypriots looted, robbed and ravaged Greek Cypriot properties. They must start producing instead of being mere consumers. The Turkish Cypriots wanted to live without working!"

Major-General Bedrettin Demirel (1917-1988)
Commander of the Turkish Invasion Forces in 1974

Gavur Says
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
There is no such concept as "account deficit". It is called "current account deficit".

Balance of payments=Capital account + current account balance

Current account balance=Trade balance + Services balance + Income balance + net transfer balance

The idea that your defence industry will solve your current account deficit problem is a little naive. It will help it but it will not solve it. I will analyze it later.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


@gavur

ok so you are copy pasting me what i have been telling you all along ...


Current Account Deficit has no relevant issue ...when country has the Current account balance to pay the dept ...


You see ...you believe Current Account Deficit caused the Greek Collapse ..

NO ...

It was the Current account balance

now Mister Gavur Believes when he uses Monetary Terms people will leave him alone and let him BS all he wants ...however mister Gavur i am not a troll but here to have a decent conversation ..so i will point out to you 1 more time ...


Current Account Balance tells us if a country has a deficit or a surplus

and what makes this Current Account Balance? like you copy pasted from a website that you havent even read...

Goods= These are produced goods that can be exported (arms in turkiye's case) (Fetta Cheese in Greece's case)

Services=tourism ...whats greece is best at

Income= this is the money turn ...for example your countries payments to it arms forces or police which creates surplus of money transfer

Current Transfers=These are consisting of Aids ,pensions and such ...which is not accepted as effecting economical production...


now mister Gavur ..since greece does not produce GOODS ... but mostly IMPORT them... their GOOD's Balance is a deficit

Services is the only strong Balance greece has but not enough to cover Goods ...

which leads to heavy Current Account deficit ...

now this leads me to my next point


SINCE TURKIYE HAS STRONG SERVICES AND INCOME BALANCE ...only low point ...the GOODS BALANCE ...can only be solved by producing indigenous goods in most needed sector...ARMS ..Turkiye exports Tremendous amounts of arms which puts us under heavy dept ...by simply creating our own industry


we provide Factories that produce

GOODS ... Increases the GOODS BALANCE

Employ turkish workers there which leads to

INCOME ... increases the INCOME BALANCE


i really do not now what else to tell you Gavur ...

like i said ...as long as turkiye's growth continue which will lead to growth of arms industry and industrial sector...

we will increase our Current Account Balance....which will lower the Current Account Deficit...


Why do i point out Arms industry will lower our Current Account Deficit? Because it is our biggest import sector ...(right after energy)

Next time when you are going to BS ...make sure you BS to the right person.




By the way ...Gavur says
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The idea that your defence industry will solve your current account deficit problem is a little naive. It will help it but it will not solve it. I will analyze it later.
:::::::::::::::::::::::

which means ...he will Google paste it later ... or he has to read a little because he cant understand the main concepts ...




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All right, we have a Turkish Milton Friedman here.

Net income balance=money paid or received for interests, dividends, profit ( includes payments for public debt for example).
Nothing to do with armed forces, police or whatever.

Net transfer payments = includes things like money transferred from immigrants abroad, foreign economic help, EU grants in our case, etc
Nothing to do with pensions etc.


"we will increase our Current Account Balance....which will lower the Current Account Deficit..."

"GOODS ... Increases the GOODS BALANCE

Employ turkish workers there which leads to

INCOME ... increases the INCOME BALANCE"



Is there not anybody with basic understanding of macroeconomics in this forum?


"however mister Gavur i am not a troll but here to have a decent conversation"

I am not the one who writes "swim malakas swim" you know.


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"The Turkish Cypriots looted, robbed and ravaged Greek Cypriot properties. They must start producing instead of being mere consumers. The Turkish Cypriots wanted to live without working!"

Major-General Bedrettin Demirel (1917-1988)
Commander of the Turkish Invasion Forces in 1974