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T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

June 17 2012 at 10:54 AM
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  (Login cenkcenk)

T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

Seoul, South Korea - News from the South Korean tender


(WAPA) - The T-129 attack helicopter, the latest version of the well-known Italian AW-129 "Mangusta" developed by a partnership between AgustaWestland and Turkish Aerospace Industry, is ready to begin tests and evaluation for the South Korean AHX competition for 36 attack helicopters.

The AgustaWestland/TAI T-129B has several key improvements over the original AW-129. It uses the more powerful LHTEC T-800 engine, and can carry the UMTAS missile, a Turkish anti-tank weapon similar to the American Hellfire II. In addition, the standard variant is equipped with a three-barrelled 20 mm cannon in a nose turret and can be equipped with rocket pods, Stinger air-to-air missile pods and gun pods on its stub wing pylons.

The test and evaluation phase is expected to begin in the coming months: it should be said the T-129B is going to face two "Veterans" such as the US Marine Corps Super Cobra (Bell AH-1Z) and the powerful Boeing AH-64 Longbow Apache, the latter in its latest upgrade, the Block III, capable of coordinating UAV drones thanks to its cutting edge control and communication systems.

"The next stage in the competition is the test and evaluation phase where the Korean army evaluation team travels to the various competitors locations to do their test and flight evaluations of the offerings" said a Boeing spokesman.

It should be noted that Eurocopter decided not to pitch its Tiger attack helicopter in the tender. According to press reports, the company asserts that it prefers to focus on the Surion KUH (Korean Utility Helicopter) that is jointly developed with KAI. (Avionews)
(2013)


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Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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June 17 2012, 10:57 AM 

AH-64D, AH-1Z, and T-129B pitch for Korea attack helicopter requirement


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By: GREG WALDRON SINGAPORE 03:13 14 Jun 2012 Source:

Three helicopters are vying for South Korea's AHX competition for 36 attack helicopters.

The three contenders are the Boeing AH-64D Block III Apache, Bell AH-1Z Zulu, and Turkish Aerospace Industry/AgustaWestland T-129B, say industry sources familiar with the competition. Bids for the competition were submitted to Seoul's Defense Acquisition Program Administration on 10 May.

Eurocopter decided not to pitch its Tiger attack helicopter in the compeition. The European company told Flightglobal that it prefers instead to focus on the Surion Korea Utility Helicopter (KUH) that it has jointly developed with Korea Aersopace Industries.


Bell said test and evaluation flights for the AHX acquisition are likely to take place in the coming months, but that the company has yet to learn of a specific time frame.

"The next stage in the competition is the test and evaluation phase where the [Korean army] evaluation team travels to the various competitors locations to do their test and flight evaluations of the offerings," adds a Boeing spokesman.

Boeing expects a final down select in the third or fourth quarter of this year.

Offsets for the AHX programme will likely be applied to Seoul's planned Korea Attack Helicopter (KAH), roles for which would include countering any North Korean infiltration along South Korea's coastline and flying counter-penetration missions along the demilitarised zone that separates the neighbours.

In addition, Seoul is also interested in developing a light version of the KAH to replace its Hughes MD500s and generate overseas sales for its national aerospace sector.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/ah-64d-ah-1z-and-t-129b-pitch-for-korea-attack-helicopter-requirement-372995/


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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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June 17 2012, 1:19 PM 

su motor isinide bi halletsek 10 numara olacak ...

we should produce our own enginee ...

 
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Nutuk
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Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 26 2012, 7:03 PM 

Korea 36 AH-1Z Cobra Attack Helicopters

(Source: Defense Security Cooperation Agency; issued September 25, 2012)

The US has offered to sell Korea, which is shopping for new attack helos, either 36 AH-1Z Vipers (above) for $2.6bn, or 36 AH-64D Apache Block IIIs for $3.6bn. (US Navy photo)
WASHINGTON --- The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress September 21 of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Korea for 36 AH-1Z Cobra attack helicopters and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $2.6 billion.

The Government of the Republic of Korea has requested a possible sale of
- 36 AH-1Z Cobra Attack Helicopters,
- 84 T-700 GE 401C Engines (72 installed and 12 spares),
- 288 AGM-114K3 Hellfire Missiles,
- 72 AIM-9M-8 Sidewinder Missiles,
- integrated missile launchers,
- AN/AAQ-30 Target Sighting Systems (TSS) and AN/ALQ-136 Radar Frequency Jammers.

The electronic warfare systems include the AN/AAR-47 Missile Warning System, AN/ALQ-144 Infrared Jammer, APX-123 Identify Friend or Foe (IFF) Mode-4 and AN/ALE-47 Chaff and Flare Decoy Dispenser;

- communication and support equipment, spare engine containers spare and repair parts, tools and test equipment, technical data and publications, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics and program support.

The estimated cost is $2.6 billion.

The Government of Korea is one of the major political and economic powers in East Asia and the Western Pacific and a key partner of the United States in ensuring peace and stability in that region. It is vital to the U.S. national interest to assist our Korean ally in developing and maintaining a strong and ready self-defense capability.

The proposed sale of the AH-1Z Cobra helicopters will improve South Koreas capability to meet current and future threats. The sale of these AH-1Z helicopters will improve its close air support, air interdiction, armed reconnaissance, strike coordination/reconnaissance, forward air control (airborne), and aerial escort capabilities while enhancing interoperability with U.S. forces. Korea will have no difficulty absorbing these helicopters into its armed forces.

The proposed sale of this system and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

The prime contractors will be Bell-Textron Corporation in Amarillo, Texas, and General Electric in Lynn, Massachusetts. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale.

Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Korea involving U.S. Government or contractor representatives on a temporary basis for program and technical ort, and management oversight.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.
Republic of Korea (ROK) AH-64D APACHE Attack Helicopters


(Source: Defense Security Cooperation Agency; issued September 25, 2012)


WASHINGTON --- The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress September 21 of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Korea for 36 AH-64D APACHE Longbow Block III Attack Helicopters and associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $3.6 billion.

The Republic of Korea has requested a possible sale of:

- 36 AH-64 D Apache Longbow Block III Attack Helicopters
- 84 T-700-GE-701D Engines (72 installed and 12 spares)
- 42 Modernized Target Acquisition and Designation Sight/Modernized Pilot Night Vision Sensors
- 36 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radar (FCR) with Radar Electronics Unit (Longbow Component)
- 36 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometers
- 42 AN/APR-39 Radar Signal Detecting Sets
- 45 AN/AVR-2B Laser Warning Sets
- 43 AAR-57(V) 3/5 Common Missile Warning Systems (CMWS) with 5th Sensor and Improved Countermeasure Dispensers
- 42 AN/APX-123 Transponders
- 120 Improved Helmet Display Sight Systems (IHDSS-21)
- 81 Embedded Global Positioning Systems with Inertial Navigation
- 38 30mm Automatic Chain Guns (Aircraft Component)
- 90 AN/ARC-201E Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio System (SINCGARS) Radios
- 90 AN/ARC-231 Radios
- 42 AN/ARC-220 Radios
- 80 M299 Hellfire or Missile Launchers
- 400 AGM-114R1 Hellfire Missiles Semi-Active Lasers (SAL)
- 438 Stinger Block I 92H Missiles
- 774,144 30 mm Cartridge HEDP High Explosive Dual Purpose M789s
- 11,020 2.75 Inch HYDRA Rockets (Unguided)
- 108 Apache Aviator Integrated Helmets (AAIH).

Also included are training devices, simulators, generators, transportation, wheeled vehicles and organizational equipment, tools and test equipment, communication equipment, spare and repair parts, support equipment, personnel training and training equipment, publications and technical documentation, U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services, and other related elements of program support. The estimated cost is $3.6 billion.

The ROK is one of the major political and economic powers in East Asia and the Western Pacific and a key partner of the United States in ensuring peace and stability in that region. It is vital to the U.S. national interest to assist our Korean ally in developing and maintaining a strong and ready self-defense capability.

The ROK intends to use new attack helicopters to more effectively secure its borders and littoral waters, as well as conduct counter-terrorism/counter-piracy operations. The proposed sale will improve the Republic of Korea Armys close air support, air interdiction, armed reconnaissance, strike coordination/reconnaissance, forward air control (airborne), and aerial escort capabilities while enhancing interoperability with U.S. forces. Korea will have no difficulty absorbing these helicopters into its armed forces.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

The prime contractors will be The Boeing Company in Mesa, Arizona; Lockheed Martin Corporation in Orlando, Florida; General Electric Company in Cincinnati, Ohio; Lockheed Martin Millimeter Technology in Owego, New York; and Longbow Limited Liability Corporation in Orlando, Florida. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale.

Implementation of this proposed sale may require the assignment of additional U.S. contractor and U.S. Government representatives in country full-time. Contractor Field Service Representatives will be in country for post-production support for an estimated three years with anticipation of a future follow on support contract or an additional Foreign Military Sales contract for support. Also, U.S. Government representatives will include a U.S. Army Aviation and Missile Life Cycle Management Command (AMCOM) field office for technical and logistical support for three years.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/138784/us-offers-36-cobra-or-apache-helos-to-korea.html

---------------------

Wow, the US companies play it tough, let see if SSM can offer a package of T-129 with UMTAS/CIRIT/stingers, Aselflir and HEHSIS (helicopter selfprotection system) system which is competitive.

--------------------------------------------
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(Login theBLUEwolf)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 27 2012, 2:35 AM 

Doesnt US always play this way? ...However 36 Apache or Cobra Viper? ....How long it will take them to deliver these ? Also congress needs the give a go for it as far as i can remember which wouldnt be much of a problem to Korea...

Thinking that it took 10 years for our Cobra's to arrive ...how long would it take their 36 to arrive ...

Can we even give a Package like that? i mean there are **** loads of orders from TAF all ready to the T129 ...how is the Korean demand will be filled (apparently they want 30+ heli's with engine and spare parts ....)

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Corpus Creepy
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Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 27 2012, 2:57 AM 

S. Korea's choosing the T-129 would be a most welcome development, as the sales rights of that chopper to 3rd countries outside of Italy and the UK belong to TAI. It can help us narrow the defense sales gap with S. Korea and further soldify our defense cooperation. 

That said, I hope they're not just using the T-129 to make the other two options a little cheaper. COnsidering their main enemy is N. Korea and to an extent China, their requirement may be more in line with a heavier, dedicated tank hunter versus a ligther chopper designed primarily for assymetric warfare. Also, T-129's higher altitude ceiling doesn't provide a big advantage as the highest point in the Korean Peninsula is only 2794 meters.

Nevertheless, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for our new bad boy and hoping it'll rip the deal out of the Americans' hands with a much better price/tech advantage and offset proposals.

    



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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 12:28 PM 




http://view.koreaherald.com/kh/view.php?ud=20120927000764&cpv=0



Tough negotiations ahead in copter project

2012-09-27 20:49
voice_heraldcampus
zoom_plus zoom_minus Text

Latest News

Korea is likely to face tough price negotiations for its planned purchase of advanced attack helicopters, with costs currently appearing almost double the budget allocated for the project.

The Defense Acquisition Program Administration plans to select the provider for 36 advanced military copters by late November.

Boeings AH-64D Apache Longbow, Bells AH-1Z Cobra and Turkish Aerospace Industries/AgustaWestlands T-129 choppers are competing for the deal.

The U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency has notified Congress that Korea has expressed its intent to purchase attack helicopters including parts and other high-tech weapon systems and options. The prices were estimated to be worth about $3.6 billion (4 trillion won), far more than the Korean governments budget of 1.8 trillion won.

The DAPA spokesperson said that the figure reported to the U.S. Congress is the maximum amount with full options, not the total amount an acquirer would have to pay for such military products.

Should DAPA decide on either the Apache or Cobra, the price will be lower. The contractors need Congress approval before they can export military goods.

The Korean agency sent requests for proposals in January and has almost finished its comprehensive review on the three bidding models.

Attack helicopters from Boeing and Bell, which is part of Textron, are upgraded versions, while the T-129 is a joint venture helicopter between Turkey and Italy, a DAPA spokesperson noted. GE Aviation, one of the three biggest aircraft engine makers, is the provider of engines for the Boeing and Bell choppers.

They are currently under a sophisticated review process that includes up to 500 rating categories, the spokesperson said.

DAPA mainly is looking at four areas price, performance, operational efficiency and technology. It will also see whether a potential preferred bidder is willing to transfer technology to Korea or use parts made in the country as part of the acquisition deal, he added, while agreeing to the common perception of the U.S. having the worlds most developed military equipment and aircraft.

This comes as the Ministry of National Defense seeks to place the latest advanced fighter jets and attack helicopters that will be ready at all times against threats from North Korea.

The purchase of attack helicopters has been included in the 2013 defense budget totaling 34.6 trillion won approved by the Ministry of Strategy and Finance, but subjected to National Assembly consent. The defense agency plans to allocate 10.5 trillion won from the budget to improving the countrys defense system, which includes adopting the next-generation fighter jet and attack helicopter programs.

DAPA said that it will pay for the helicopters through installments normally over the standard period of five to six years, while not ruling out the possibility of re-opening a bid should a price gap widen between the acquirer and the bidders.

The FX fighter jet program has gone through about 20 bids over the years in part due to prices and budgetary concerns, it noted.

It takes a decade to fully prepare and establish one defense program.

By Park Hyong-ki ([email protected])

__________________________________________



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Kallimachos
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Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 1:02 PM 

Dreaming again Turkos? If you think the S. Koreans will choose a cheap Turkish imitation of an Italian helo, while the Americans have over 50,000 troops stationed in Korea protecting them from an invasion from the North, I suggest you put down the marijuana hookas.

The Americans have this deal in a bag. And the US Congress will approve the sale without any issues. You were merely added to put a little pressure on the Americans for a better price. Whether it's Apaches or Cobras is irrelevant. The Americans will make the money.

My recommendation is to go to Africa and beg poor African dictators to buy your garbage. Not even Arabs will buy your crap since it's 3rd rate at best.

By September of 2013, please let me know how many of your "indigenous" (LOL - COUGH) helos you have sold to any other country besides your OWN SELF.










PATRIS, 8PHSKEIA, OIKOGENEIA
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This message has been edited by Kallimachos on Sep 28, 2012 1:05 PM


 
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 1:34 PM 



we have know-how
we have technology
we are sufficient for our needs
we support our domestic companies

we dont need to beg anyone LET ALONE DEFENSE TECHNOLOGY ITS DREAM FOR YOU YOU BEG EVERYONE EVEN FOR FOOD... PITY YOURSELF

__________________________________________



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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 1:46 PM 

@Kalli the machosist

YOu are a idiot. No one has told that we would win!

But important think is that we take part on the competition and we are marketing our product!
We are compareing with big american companies and compare our product with theirs.

If we get a good answer that our heli does what it should do, than this is a very good promotion for our ATAK!

Other countries will buy in the future also attack helis and maybe they will remember that our heli has been compared to american ones and have lost because of the reason you had written!

Than we will win other competitions regarding attack helis! There are enough countries who need attack helis in the future!



---------------------------------------------

Ne Mutlu Türküm Diyene - NMTD

"Özgürlük ve bagimsizlik benim karakterimdir"

Mustafa Kemal ATATÜRK
(Nutuk, 1919)

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This message has been edited by NMTD on Sep 28, 2012 3:38 PM


 
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(Login Kallimachos)
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Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 1:59 PM 

As I said earlier. Your "indigenous" is not even indigenous since all the articles keep referring to a PARTNERSHIP and AugustaWestland. So the Turks took 80% of something, changed an engine and added a few options.

If this is indigenous, I'm Jesus Christ. Secondly, your chopper will never be sold to any serious 1st world countries. How many A-129s did Augusta sell besides their host countries?

The entire project is nothing more than a "feel good" "pat myself on the back" project of buyuk Turkey, nothing more.

The Apache is a BATTLE-PROVEN helicopter which has been operational in many types of theaters of war. What exactly are you selling? An unproven platform with unproven weapon systems?

All that aside, from a geopolitical point of view you have no hope. The Americans have been PROTECTING Korea since the 1950s and they are very close allies. The Koreans aren't going to reject the Americans and choose you over price. US helo quality and technology is levels ahead of anything you can build. They have decades experience over you and with China rising and threatening its neighbors, the Koreans aren't going to abandon "Daddy USA" for "Tellak Turkey".

But keep posting photos of it, while your PM starts peace negotiations with Kurds, since you can't defeat them. You guys are a joke. As one diplomat said "1st world dreams with 3rd world capabilities".





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Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 3:00 PM 

"we have know-how
we have technology
we are sufficient for our needs
we support our domestic companies

we dont need to beg anyone LET ALONE DEFENSE TECHNOLOGY ITS DREAM FOR YOU YOU BEG EVERYONE EVEN FOR FOOD... PITY YOURSELF"


Bla bla bla...we this, we that. Aside from your OWN government, how many have you sold? How many countries are you currently in negotiation with for a possible sale? How many helos did AugustaWestland sell of the A-129? And if the helo was such a "great" platform and sales were great, then why in the hell would they want to add Turkey to their "success"? Oh maybe the Italians just love Turks and they wanted to share their financial success story with you.

You guys can spew technical specifications all day long on here, but at the end of the day they don't mean shvt if you can't translate it to money. The entire global economic system is facing financial meltdown. The China bubble is going to be bursting soon, but delusional Turks think they'll be selling 3rd rate weapons.

The future is a digitized battlefield with robots, aerial drones, unmanned fighters, and remote controlled tanks. The Americans are developing all these things. By the time you build half the crap you claim you will, they will already be 60 years ahead of you.







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This message has been edited by Kallimachos on Sep 28, 2012 3:09 PM


 
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 3:15 PM 



you right bla bla stick to what you are at good


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Nutuk
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 3:30 PM 

Kallifaggos who cares about indigenous these days? Is the NH90 indigenous? If yes to which country does it belong? Germany or France?

Important is technology, whether you cry it out or not, fact is we have it!!!!

So if T-129 proves to be a good product why shouldn't she have a chance? The Koreans clearly voice 4 point of importance: price, performance, operational efficiency and technology.

And they clearly state: It will also see whether a potential preferred bidder is willing to transfer technology to Korea or use parts made in the country as part of the acquisition deal

Now that part of technology transfer is tricky with US sytems cos it needs congressional approval, so T-129 is not chanceless at all (Koreans are not stupid like Greeks, they go for technological knowhow)

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Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 3:36 PM 

You fail to see that deals are not I buy it, you give it to me and we're done. There are many parameters and dimensions that go into any weapons deal. But if you think the Koreans are going to give the proverbial middle finger to USA, especially now that China is bullying and threatening everyone you are either dumb or delusional.

US has tens of thousands of troops stationed on Korean soil. The Koreans aren't going to mess up their relationship with the US over 40 choppers Turkish used car salesmen of Italian crap are trying to sell. That's the truth...

New version of Apache allows helo to control drones. Apache is a BATTLE PROVEN platform. Is it expensive? Yes, but you get what you pay for. There's a reason why a Fiat is cheap (because it's shvtty) and a Porsche isn't.

Ok, so you have symbolically entered. The Russians and Ukranians had also entered in the Greek tank tender some years back. Only a fool would think they had a realistic chance. You are the new "Ukranians" in the weapons market.

Good for Africa or poor Central American dictatorships, but no hope for serious countries .








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This message has been edited by Kallimachos on Sep 28, 2012 3:40 PM


 
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 3:43 PM 

Kallifaggot you forget one think you big idiot!

We have a product which we can sell, we have technology which we can use to share.

Meanwhile your lovely country Greece has nothing than big DEBTS!

So you see the difference?

Are you intelligent enough?



---------------------------------------------

Ne Mutlu Türküm Diyene - NMTD

"Özgürlük ve bagimsizlik benim karakterimdir"

Mustafa Kemal ATATÜRK
(Nutuk, 1919)

Br
NMTD

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Nutuk
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 3:47 PM 

You fail to understand that Korea is not Greece (heck even Kongo doesn't want to be compared to Greece) and need no political underdog lick the ballz politicized purchases.

Koreans could also have bought American cargo helicopters, yet they have chosen to go for the semi-indigenous Surion which they have developed in cooperation with EADS. They are valuing tech transfer and want to control their stuff as much as possible (there the T-129 has an advantage over the American choppers) but yes it will be tough and yes the Apache is better, still we do make a chance.

--------------------------------------------
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(Login Kallimachos)
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Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 3:49 PM 

"We have a product which we can sell, we have technology which we can use to share. "


The distance from "we can sell" to "we sold" is LIGHT YEARS AWAY...it's good to hope though. Try calling Somalia. Izlamiz PM Erdogan announced new chapter in Turko-Somali relations.

Who are you going to "share" this technology with? Your Azeri "brothers" who are buying Israeli weapons systems off the shelf? You guys are naive...at best and suffer from delusions of greatness.







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AmonyakTR
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 4:19 PM 

SALAK YUNAN AC KÖPEK ILK ÖNCE KENDI DERDINE BAK SEN.




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Nutuk
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

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September 28 2012, 4:24 PM 

In case Kallifagos missed maybe good to remind him again, our defence export exceeded $1bln last year and expected to reach $1.5bln this year (more than Greece can spend on weaponry for sure)

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Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 4:27 PM 

We need a translation, and we need it now. otherwise you'll get yourself a warning . Come on , it doesn't worth it!

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Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 4:46 PM 

"our defence export exceeded $1bln last year and expected to reach $1.5bln this year (more than Greece can spend on weaponry for sure)"


And this project has cost what? $2 or 3.5 billion and counting....if you get 50% of that money back call me...as I said. Let me know in September of 2013 how many attack helos you have sold and to whom.

Meantime, try figuring out what kind of "evil eye" or "bad luck" brought down the ANKA.





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This message has been edited by Kallimachos on Sep 28, 2012 4:52 PM


 
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Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 7:58 PM 

Very nice helicopter, but the 20mm cannon is just too light. The Eurocopter carries a 30mm and has just slight more carry weight than the T-129, why not mount a 30mm instead?

 
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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 28 2012, 8:49 PM 

Very nice helicopter, but the 20mm cannon is just too light. The Eurocopter carries a 30mm and has just slight more carry weight than the T-129, why not mount a 30mm instead?
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Based on what is the 20mm too light? Apache has 30mm cannon because she was developped in the 70'ties as anti tank helicopter the 30mm is against light armoured vehicles which is not needed anymore because we have the much more effective Cirit missiles making the 30mm an overkill.

Better is to use 20mm cannon and carry more bullets (against shabby Kurds)

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The Conquerors (Turkey)

A CHANCE TO SHOWCASE

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September 29 2012, 9:48 PM 


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http://www.army.mil/article/88153/A_chance_to_showcase/


Pilots, maintainers and analysts from the Republic of Korea Army, Test and Evaluation Group and the Boeing Company received guided tours and operational briefings from the 3rd Battalion, 101st Aviation Regiment, 159th Combat Aviation Brigade, Sept. 24-25 at Fort Campbell, Ky.

The South Korean government is currently looking at several attack helicopter platforms for purchase that would improve their ability to meet current and future threats in the Pacific region.

Included on the list are the Bell AH-1W Super Cobra, the Agusta Westland TAI T-129 as well as the Boeing AH-64D Apache, which was showcased to the team here during their visit.

The purpose of their tour went beyond surveying the helicopter itself. They saw how an attack helicopter battalion conducts daily operations and maintenance.

"(We will) focus them on how we manage aviation maintenance at the battalion level and at the brigade level and then also give them an overview of company training," said Lt. Col. Thomas Burke, the battalion commander, 3rd Bn, 101st Avn. Rgt.

The delegates toured Sabre Army Heliport's flight line, hangar bay and training areas. They also received an overview of the mission essential training, production control and task organization of the battalion.

"By the time they leave here they should have a pretty solid idea of how an attack helicopter battalion conducts operations, whether it be maintenance or training." Burke said.

The delegates also experienced the Longbow Crew Trainer. The LCT is the deployable flight simulator to support the aviators while they are back here in garrison or in combat, said Ty Crowder, an instructor and operator of the LCT.

It can "maximize our training time without the expense of the actual flight time," said Chief Warrant Officer 4 Robert Slider, a standardization pilot, 3rd Bn., 101st Avn. Rgt. "So this really enhances our entire training program."

The delegates were very impressed with how the 3rd Bn., 101st Avn. Rgt. trains, maintains and operates their aviation program.

The company level of proficiency was impressive, said Lt. Col. Woo Jong Kim, the Consolidating Officer for the Test and Evaluation Group. It was very organized and defined at the pilot level to make them above average fighters.

Kim said the 3rd Battalion has the capability to rapidly deploy when needed and has one of the best aircraft in the world.

"The Apache has so many scratches as evidence of taking part in combat," said Hyungkwon Kim, a senior operations analyst for Boeing International Corporation.

The delegates departed with more than just a holistic view of how an attack helicopter battalion operates - they left with a deeper understanding of what it takes to be in the 101st Airborne Division (AASLT).

"We are very proud and very happy to do this for them. It is always an honor to showcase the unit especially a unit in the 101st Airborne Division and in the 159th CAB," Burke said

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The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: T-129 Helicopter ready to take on the Apache and Super Cobra

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September 29 2012, 10:12 PM 



http://world.kbs.co.kr/english/news/news_zoom_detail.htm?lang=e&current_page=&No=6888

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Attack Helicopters

Write: 2012-09-28

The Korean government has officially notified the U.S. of its intention to purchase thirty-six latest model attack helicopters. The U.S. Department of Defense said the Defense Security Cooperation Agency had received Koreas purchase request for 36 attack helicopters, their parts and components, training, maintenance and transportation, and notified Congress last Friday.

Purchase Request for U.S. Helicopters
Korea sent a purchase request for the Armys AH-64D Apache and Navys AH-1Z Cobra. The weapons purchase includes 36 helicopters, 84 engines, 42 nighttime detection sensors for pilots, and 36 gunfire control radar systems, amounting to 21 weapon types and 3.6 billion dollars. The major participants of the contract are world-leading defense contractors Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, and General Electric. For the Cobra helicopter Bell Helicopter Textron Inc. and GE are cited as main contractors. In addition to the Cobra helicopters, the purchase request calls for 84 GE401C engines, 288 Hellfire missiles, 72 Sidewinder missiles and launch pads, as well as radar disruptors, totaling 2.6 billion dollars.

The Apache and Cobra Helicopters
The Apache Longbow is the U.S. Armys signature attack helicopter. The cutting-edge helicopter is able to detect targets and aim missiles by exposing only the radar mounted on the top with the main body hidden behind a hill, a tree, or a building. The Cobra AH-1Z is the primary attack helicopter used by the U.S. Navy. It features a range three times farther than the Super Cobra model and double the load. It is equipped with sixteen Hellfire missiles and the Hawkeye target sight system, enough to destroy enemy tanks.

Koreas Procurement of Attack Helicopters
Koreas Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) plans to spend 1.8 trillion won (roughly 1.62 billion U.S. dollars) to purchase 36 attack helicopters. The procurement plan is part of the governments weapons introduction project for the Korean Army, Navy, and Air Force. The attack helicopters will be deployed to the islands in the nations northwestern sea to deter sudden raids by North Koreas hovercrafts. In addition to the two American helicopters, the T-129 by Turkish Aerospace Industries has taken part in the bid. DAPA has already completed assessments on the Cobra and the T-129, and testing on the Apache will be finished by the end of September. Final selection is scheduled for late November and an official contract is likely to be signed sometime in December. A Korean diplomatic source in Washington D.C. reports that both the Apache and the Cobra are high-performing attack helicopters, but Turkeys T-129 is not out of the race yet. A final decision will be made after taking performance, price and various other factors into consideration.

Challenges
The road to attack helicopter procurement is not without obstacles. First, aircraft prices have risen significantly. A DAPA official says that its not easy to negotiate the purchase price, since the large attack helicopters have become so much more expensive. According to the data submitted to U.S. Congress, the total price of the Apache and the Super Cobra amounts to three to four trillion won, between 2.7 billion and 3.6 billion dollars, far greater than Koreas procurement budget of 1.6 billion dollars. The deal is at risk of being scrapped if the asking price for the helicopters is higher than the DAPA budget. A source inside DAPA says the helicopter makers have made bids lower than the U.S. governments prices submitted to Congress, hinting at a possibility of lowering the purchase amount through negotiation

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