Who's to blame for Greeces crisis?



Above is, I beleive a worth watching, debate (in Greek) held half a year ago in Athens on whether all Greeks share a responsibility for the crisis currently afflicting the country, or whether responsibility is much narrower. The debate was sparked by comments made early on in the crisis by Deputy PM Theodoros Pangalos that "all of us, all Greeks, ate a piece of the pie and are responsible for Greece's overweening debt".

Pangalos who said the phrase explains his views at 08:40 in the video.

Speaking on behalf of the proposition were Thanos Veremis, professor of history at Panteion university; Antigone Lyberaki, professor of economics at Panteion university; and Kevin Featherstone from the Hellenic Observatory at the London School of Economics.
Against were Yanis Varoufakis, professor of economic theory at university of Athens; art critic and journalist Avgoustinos Zenakos; and lawyer Haris Economopoulos.

The case 'for' was pretty straightforward: Greece had been brought down by nepotism, cronyism, corruption, tax evasion, wilful disregard for the law and so on in which all Greeks were implicated. Kevin Featherstone argued that in a democracy, all citizens necessarily bear responsibility for what happens in their society.

Those against the proposition thought the blame should be attributed more selectively, to the media barons, politicians, big business and to a bent system that enough Greeks were excluded from or had no stake in. It was also argued that the 'we binged together' discourse is being used to coerce Greeks into consenting to the austerity measures since collective responsibility implies collective punishment.

http://hellenicantidote.blogspot.se/2011/12/whos-to-blame-for-greeces-crisis.html


Power through Knowledge
"I hope for nothing. I fear nothing. I am free."
Nikos Kazantzakis

"all of us, all Greeks, ate a piece of the pie and are responsible for Greece's overweening debt"

Hey Varangian, are you going to sue the Grik deputy PM over his outrageous remarks? How dare he mixes the innocent Grik people in this mess?

 

What do you think that phat phuck Pangelos is gonna say? It was the politicians fault? He's looking to save his fat arse from Jenny Craig.. That's his motivation for being ignorant, what's yours...lol

And why should he be scared of me suing him.. All the judges are in his baklava eating pockets.. And that's the problem, he'll  get away with it and so will the rest of his buddies because no one has the guts to hang the lot of them.. I'd rather Tsipras wins the elections and ruins the country even more than these fvcks have.. as long as they hang the lot of them.. Especially that pork chop..

Recently I read that the head of Greek tax officer said that Greeks need to learn to take care of each other as a nation and don't be selfish.

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Next week in cinema: Hungry Dancing

To his credit now, he does allocate SOME of the blame to himself and the rest of the politicians. I'd say that's rather noble of him. Griks may be the ultimate victims in all of this, but just because you're a victim, it doesn't mean you're completely innocent.

 

 

I guess that means a lot.. Give me that guys name, so I can BBQ him...lol

So according to you.. Even if you're innocent.. You can be guilty.. I think it's time you logged off Corpus and got some sleep...lol

"So according to you.. Even if you're innocent.. You can be guilty.. I think it's time you logged off Corpus and got some sleep...lol"

It seems you're the one who should get some sleep as you're mixing up the terms. I said the Griks were the victims, I didn't claim they were innocent. Quite the contrary, actually. Being a "victim" in an event doesn't equate to being "innocent".

Think of it this way. You run a red light and as you're passing, a giant bulldozer crashes you and drives off. He doesn't even notice a thing while your car is totalled. You may be a victim, in that case, but you're sure as heck not innocent. Get it?

 

 

That doesn't make sense at all Corpus.. If you're the victim.. Then it's implied that you have been unfairly wronged.. And if Greeks have been unfairly wronged.. What does it matter?

...it's like saying a women gets raped.. And the judge blaming the fact that she was drunk and wearing a short dress.. Then again you are a Turk..

who's responsible for the mess greece is in?
how far back do you want to go?
in my honest opinion the first culprits were the foreign powers that gave us foreign leaders starting in 1821.we had a german monarch who cared bugger all about greece.
continueing through out the moving timeline we come to 1922 where the german backed opposition parties fought with the english backed government to bring about the 1922 calamity but it didnt stop there.
moving passed the 2nd world war and the civil war and the heinous actions of communists and capaitalists we come to the foreign backed and financed politicians of averof,kokalis,karamanlis and the royals whos foreign policy was solely based on supporting anglo american interests so as to receive the dole payout.this continued and changed little,only to encompass the eu as a surrogate.
look at some of the policeis
-starting the 1955 insurection in cyprus where greece was in no economic,social,military position to exact her rights.some say the 1955 insurection was prompted at the behest of the brittish who knew well the aspirations of the people and sought to sway the outcome to their advantage when greece was weak
-look at the foreign policy requests which demanded greeks be exported like cattle abroad.to sweeten the deal the greek government received economic aid but on condition of allowing greeks to leave the nation.conditions that somwhat reflect todays bailout memorandum pre conditions.
lets move alittle more forward to just a few years ago.at the policies of the decendents of past leaders like jeffrey chad meinko,he denied that greece sat in a lake of petroleum,denied for as long as possible the ecomomic mess greece was in till he had no choice and let slip on several occasions that he had no particular attachment to greece.
then there were the like of mitsotaki and simitis who have the same traits as samaras and jeffrey,all of them athiestical ,masonic jews..yes people greece just like turkey and a huge chunk of the rest of the world is jewish d/masonic dominated.so therefore are the hellenes the blame of this mess?
point the fingers to those in power who made the decisions,not the lowy hardworking family raising working stiffs.do not blame the public servants who accepted a job on offer and followed office politics to remain employed.blame the shepard and not the flock.
we are passed the blame game and should be talking of what needs to be done, not only to fix the mess but to ensure it never happens again.the problem is easier to fix than most of you realise.
the most difficult part of the solution is changing peoples attitudes,perceptions and habits.

Its a thankless task trying to educate these imbeciles Aietus.. They're he'll bent on blaming science and faulty DNA.. Rather than corruption and national interests..

Since you're insistantly retarded, let me give you another example.

You go to Starbucks, take a cup of hot coffee and intentionally pour it all over yourself. Then go to court and press charges that Starbucks' product burned you. Then ask for a million dollars in compensation. What do you think the verdict will be even though you're, de jure, a "victim"?

I hope that helps in establishing the fact that being a victim doesn't equate to being innocent.

In Greece's case, Griks certainly are the victims. But that doesn't mean it's everyone else's fault.

 

A. : Force of habit from livingb in a generous land.

Good day all, Tay.



Source : bubblesgift.centerblog.net sur centerblog.


Speak softly and carry a big stick.

Politicians and corrupt government employees didn't come from a distant planet and land in Greece. They were born and raised right there by the morally inept, backward, greedy Grik nation. You reap what you sow.

 

Mate, have you been drinking?

That's a lame analogy.. If I poured hot coffee over my self.. Then I'm not exactly a victim, now am I?

But if YOU did it then I have a case.. I can sue YOU.. What I can't do is sue myself.. Phew.. I think I need a drink..

So that's your argument?

It's genetic.. Well since you have Greek blood Corpus does that mean that you're inheritly corrupt too?

ok corpus,lets play with your example.

did 10 million greeks pour hot coffee on themselves?,dont think so.

who brewed the coffee? im willing to bet it was those in power who had the coffee machine,coffee and water.
why did they pour the coffee on themselves and others?surely there must be a reason?
did the american,irish,french,spaniards,portugese,english and others also pour hot starbucks coffee on themselves?
stop for a moment and smell the coffee corpus.who gains from all of this?,starbucks?
they sold alot of coffee to burn 450 million people,no?
what will be the remedy and outcome?

Varan, and Aietus, I'll share a bottle of Raki with you two if you promise to have some common sense and give credit where it's due.

Of course the Grik public bears some of the guilt in making Greece the bankrupt chithole it has become. I mean, come on. who are you kidding? The EU is certainly not buting it. Heck, even the Grik voters didn't buy it. Wake up and smell the coffee before it burns you.

 

Politicians and corrupt government employees didn't come from a distant planet and land in Greece. They were born and raised right there by the morally inept, backward, greedy Grik nation. You reap what you sow.




Not entirely true corpus.
simitis background from china,jeffreys background from poland,karamanlis from eastern turkey.
jeffrey was educated in the united states,papoulias was educated by ze krauts etc etc.
fact is they are non greek dna and thats all you need to know.

smell the coffee?
son i smelt the coffee along long time ago.

if i didnt like you,know you well enough i'd engage with you in an old fashioned flame war and napalm your arse in the process. surely you can flame in a less obvious manner dude,and to think they made you a general lol

How about the parliamentarians who supported these politicians' leadership in their respective parties? Were they all from overseas too?

How about the Grik people itself who kept voting and voting for them over the decades? Corruption and bankruptcy certainly didn't come overnight.

How can you expect to make progress if you're not willing to admit that YOU, as the Grik people, have an inherent problem.

I'm not blaming DNA here. I'm talking about culture.

 

IMHO the root of the greek economic crisis comes from getting rid of the king who imposed some kind of ordnung on the society

once he left the lower undesirable classes came to power (mangkes from piraeus etc who voted PASOK and syndicalists)

these 'underlcasses' were heavily influenced by the Ottoman ways of doing things and while the King was in power they were suppressed



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Why cant greeks take responsibilty if their own doing ? Why cant Romulas and company see reality .... Ohhhh i forgot they are greek and never at fault, no need to work, dont pay taxes, collect benefits and blame the state on others

Greeks like greek bono have honor and class apparently...

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You are mixing two completely different problems Turkos...

The Hellenic corruption and destructive socialism although it is a cancer to the nation has NOTHING to do with the crisis at least the economic one.
Where those two meet is that we will have a solution to economic crisis only if the Hellenic mentality changes.

But other than the economic crisis is COMPLETELY different than the above...
Hellas in this occasion is being used as a scapegoat. So why Hellas and not another country? It's simple...because in comparison to USA or Germany we are much more disorganized and "corrupt"(in terms of politicians).

The most important reason of course is that foreign companies want to to buy all the public institutions and of course the large amount of natural resources for free in return for the "debt".


To idiots who say the problem is because of corrupt Hellenes etc ask yourself this...Do you truly think Europe didn't know what going on until recently?