WAFF Vet Club[Click here to Join WAFF!] WAFF Moderators Forum
General Discussion
(The Den)
The World's Armed Forces Forum History, Politics, Economics and Religion Forum
Greece & Turkey Defence Forum Europe, Middle East & Africa
Defence Forum
Asia & Pacific Defence Forum
Help, Suggestions & Complaints
   
   
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

July 23 2012 at 2:19 PM
No score for this post

  (Login hiddenwolf)

How can a region in the Balkans where modern Greece is located today, which has been open to a multitude of invasions, conquests and settlements, remain homogeneous and untouched for two thousand seven hundred years?

Ironically, as the Greeks claim, how can modern Macedonia, a region neighbouring modern Greece be so heterogeneous that it has completely lost its original identity?

These are questions that every Greek should be asking!

Ever since Philip II of Macedonia conquered the ancient City States at the conclusion of the battle of Chaeronea in 338 BC, the region south of Olympus has been without borders and open to all kinds of invasions and barbarian settlements.

THE BIG GREEK LIE : "Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the ancient Greeks"

There were no "Ancient Greeks" since the word "Greek" was not coined until after the Roman conquests, approximately 600 years after the establishment of the City States and approximately 150 years after they were conquered by the Macedonians.

It is also well known that the ancient City States were never united politically and never established themselves as a single state. In fact they existed politically independent from one another and fought each other for economic dominance of the region.

The name "Greece" was imposed on the modern Greek Kingdom by the Great Powers Britain, France and Russia. Modern Greeks call themselves Hellenes (Ellines) and their state Hellas (Ellas).

By using the name "Greek" to refer to both the ancient and modern people, the Greek state falsely implies descent for the modern Greeks from the ancients.

By using the name "Greece" to refer to both the ancient and modern states, the Greek State is falsely implying;

(1) continuity between the ancient City States and modern Greece, and

(2) that there was some sort of political unity between the ancient City States themselves where one did not exist..

In reality the words "Greece" and "Greek" were popularized by modern 19th century writers. There are no ancient maps or references with the words "Greece".

The Romans may have made some references to the ancient people living in Sicily as "Grecos" but they referred to the region south of Olympus as Achaia.

During the Ottoman era the people living south of Olympus called themselves Romeos (Romans).

Greece is a newly created state which never existed before the 19th century. The Kingdom of Greece, occupying the region of Morea, present day Peloponnesus, was created for the first time in 1829. Between 1829 and 1912 the Greeks enlarged their territory to present day Greece, by conquering Epirus, Thessaly and 51% of Macedonia.

At its inception Greece stated out with a small population of less than one million people, most of whom were Albanians, Slavs and Vlahs with a small minority of other ethnicities. By the time Greece conquered Epirus and Thessaly, its population grew to three times its original size. In 1907 it registered a population of 2,600,000. After it conquered Macedonia and exchanged populations with Turkey, its population tripled. In 1928 Greece registered 6,200,000 people. 1,100,000 of them were Christians, refugees from Asia Minor.

After the Treaty of Lausanne in July 1923, and after the population exchanges with Turkey, Greece declared itself homogenous consisting of 100% pure Greeks with a very small Muslim but ethnically Greek population.

It is estimated that after Macedonia was conquered, occupied and had some of its population evicted, more than one million Macedonians still remained and were included among the Greeks.

According to Greece however, there were no non-Greeks left in Macedonia after its population exchanges. Also, according to Greece, the ancient Macedonians were extinct, killed off by the Slavs around the 6th century AD during the so-called Slav invasions.

So the question that begs to be asked here is, "What nationality were these million or so people who remained in Macedonia and became part of Greece?" Many Greeks would argue that they were Bulgarians!

If that were the case, then how can the modern Greeks claim purity and homogeneity if at least 16% of its population in 1928 was non-Greek? What about its Vlah, Slav, Albanian and Turkish elements? Clearly they are not Greeks, let alone being direct descendents of the ancient Greeks?

Even this small argument shows that there is something "fishy" about these Greek claims.

For over a century and a half Greek State institutions, organizations and individuals have been making unproven and unfounded allegations that the modern Greeks are direct descendents of the ancients. To this day they have shown no evidence to prove their claims. In fact the opposite is true. There is ample evidence that proves that this particular modern Greek claim is an outright BIG Greek lie.

This exact issue was tackled by Historian John Shea in chapter 4 of The Great Ethnic Mix of Greece, pages 77 to 96, in his book "Macedonia and Greece, The Struggle to Define a New Balkan Nation". Among other things, John Shea proves that even the ancient people were not homogeneous.

"It has been estimated that in classical times the number of slaves in Attica was roughly equal to the number of free inhabitants, or around 100,000. In Sparta there was an even greater proportion of slaves, and most of them, the helots, were Messenians. While the slaves of Athens were a wide racial mix and therefore less likely to unite on the basis of a common language, these Messenian helots of Sparta all spoke Greek, and had a kind of group self-consciousness. Thus they presented 'special problems of security for their Spartan masters, whose numbers were constantly on the decline.' Changes in the ethnic composition of Greek city-states are illustrated by the comments about the case of Piso. Piso, who had been the recipient of an unhelpful decision by a vote of the Athenian city assembly, 'made a violent speech in which he said that the latter-day Athenians had no right to identify themselves with the great Athenians of the days of Pericles, Demosthenes, Aeschylus, and Plato. The ancient Athenians had been extirpated by repeated wars and massacres and these were mere mongrels, degenerates, and the descendants of slaves. He said that any Roman who flattered them as if they were the legitimate heirs of those ancient heroes was lowering the dignity of the Roman name.' Such historical ideas make it clear that even two thousand years ago the notion of ethnic purity amongst the Greeks was difficult to sustain. The ethnic mix continued over the next two thousand years. As Nicol has observed, 'The ancient Greeks were, after all, of very mixed ancestry; and there can be no doubt that the Byzantine Greeks, both before and after the Slav occupation, were even more heterogenous'."

-----------------------------
[linked image]


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
AuthorReply

Wolf
(Login theBLUEwolf)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 2:28 PM 

[linked image]

-----------------------------------------------

[linked image]

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

(Login VG2000)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 2:41 PM 

I've been saying this for years!!!


There are no Greeks in Greece, just Slavic-Gypsies with negro blood....

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

WAFFer
(Login EimaiTrelos)
The Canucks (Canada)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 3:11 PM 

Most turks are insanely jealous Greeks have strict traceable ancestrial lines into antiquity, while they are merely the seed of rape, tellaks who sucked off their captors daily, and pauper converts.

The rest of the 'turks' are Kurds and cant wait to rape them some more.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
WAFFer
(Login assos90)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 3:14 PM 

You dum phuck Turd look in the mirror. Most Turds are Greek Rum converts!!! LOL

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

(Login VG2000)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 3:18 PM 

Motumbo-Greko - Scientifically it has been proven that your DNA is closely related to that of Africans...

No other European group has such similarities...

Why do you think your cities look like third world African villages? Why your economy is like that of Uganda, why you rely on public assistance?

You are Africans, with gypsy genes....

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.


(Login hiddenwolf)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 3:23 PM 

LOL, if Greeks get faced with facts and reality that start to attack the opposite.

Have you even read the article? Or you too lazy to do that too? It says Greeks are no way Ancient Greek. You stolen culture of the people who lived there but no way you are direct ancestors of those land since there were a lot of changes, a lot of people came there and cummed there. Greeks are just a sack of cm milkshake. Stealing other peoples history and telling lies to themselves and others to have an identity other than gypsy identity.

-----------------------------
[linked image]


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

(Login VG2000)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 3:27 PM 

Soweto-Greeks do not want to face the reality that they have stolen a culture from their neighbors to the north, the Macedonians. They have coveted their culture, achievements and heroes (Alexander) like true gypsies....

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
WAFFer
(Login TOROS_2000)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 3:28 PM 

Even Egyptians don't claim that they are descendants of Ancient Egyptians although they are located in much more isolated geography.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

(Login VG2000)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 3:35 PM 

^^^^ That's funny that you point that out!^^^^

Greeks, being genetically close to Africans, are just as delusional as the Africans in the US. African-Americans claim that they are direct descendants of Egyptians and that Cleopatra was a black woman!

Typical revisionism of history!

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

Corpus Creepy
(Login Corpusvile)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 5:02 PM 

I don't know if they've got any miniscule ties to the long-gone ancients, but it's an undeniable fact that today's Griks are the direct descendents of the Ottoman rapists who had a thing going on for hairy gypsy girls.

 

 



Turkish Pride

Corpus is a Suse Linux user. Why aren't you?

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

Viper
(Login Apeirotan)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 5:15 PM 

The building of a national identity is fisrt of all a matter of common education, values,
language, religion etc. For instance, some researches argue that a great part of today's
Europeans and Asians are descendants of Jenghis Chan (He is daid to be the father of thousands
of children). Still, in no way they identify themselves as Mongolians.

Moreover, recent genetic investigations have shown that Greek and Turkish Cypriots share
similar DNAs, while their DNA is much more different ftom the mainland Greeks and Turks DNA respectively. Still, they feel closer to Greeks and Turks than to each other.

According to your way of thinking Greeks could claim that all the people across the middle
east and up to the Hindus river have Greek blood as Alexander had conquered these lands in the
past. The truth is that in most cases it is the invader that gets assimilated and not the conquered population. A perfect example is the formely Roman but finally Greek identity of the Byzantine empire.

So,it is beyond question that at least part of the Greeks are genetically linked to the ancient ones. Greek population also includes Vlachs and others who may not be linked to ancient Greeks, yet they speak Greek, the are Orthodox Christians and most importantly they FEEL Greek. And that is the most important for the formation of a national identity...

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

(Login metor)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 5:52 PM 

You've gotta be ******* kidding me!

What a source, by stefov :D

http://www.maknews.com/html/articles/stefov/stefov55.html

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

WAFFer
(Login EimaiTrelos)
The Canucks (Canada)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 5:54 PM 

turks, wtf are you denying???

All of you were born from rape victims. FULL STOP.

This is a historical fact.

There is nothing to deny. Take one look in the mirror. HAHAHAHA

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

(Login GavurYunan)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 5:59 PM 

I have a ready response which I post every time the Turks start such a discussion:

The Turks may have their opinion on our ancestry, but the rest of the world thinks otherwise:

The following pictures may frustrate the Turks. But they must get used to them, because they will see them in 4 days in the Olympic Games of London.

Winter Olympic Games 2010: The Olympic Movement pays tribute to the nation who founded the Olympic Games and the Western Civilization:



In the Opening Ceremony of the Olympic Games, the Olympic Team of MODERN GREECE is always the first to enter the Stadium and lead the Parade.
Why? Why are we given such honors?

The rest of the World knows VERY WELL who we are, what our ancestry is, and where we are descended from.


Sidney 2000 Opening ceremony:
The Olympic Team of MODERN GREECE and the Greek flag enters the Stadium first in ALL Olympic Opening Ceremonies: Why?




Sidney 2000 closing ceremony:
The National Anthem of Greece is always performed together with the anthem of the host nation(in this case Australia). Why?




I give my final answer to the Turks through the words of Greek-Roman Emperor Julian the Philosopher:

"HMIN ANHKOYSIN H EYGLOTTIA KAI AI TEXNAI THS ELLADOS KAI H TON THEON AYTHS LATREIA,YMETEROS DE KLHROS H AMATHIA KAI H AGROIKIA KAI OYDEN PLEON. AYTH ESTI H SOFIA YMON."

Emperor Julian the Philosopher, 362 AD


Translation from Ancient Greek:
"To us they do belong the eloquence, art and philosophy of Greece, and the worship of her beautiful gods. To you belong the ignorance, the coarseness, and nothing more . That is your wisdom."

..



"The Turkish Cypriots looted, robbed and ravaged Greek Cypriot properties. They must start producing instead of being mere consumers. The Turkish Cypriots wanted to live without working!"

Major-General Bedrettin Demirel (1917-1988)
Commander of the Turkish Invasion Forces in 1974

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

WAFFer
(Login EimaiTrelos)
The Canucks (Canada)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 6:01 PM 

the turk source:

Risto "Too Fat to Wear a Belt" Stefov

(On the Right)
[linked image]



hahahaha, what's next quoting homeless people on their thoughts?

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.


(Login TurkishDomination)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 6:05 PM 

The ancient griks dont exist anymore, there is no possible way that these bankrupt lazy fat fvck corrupt karagiozi griks are the descendants of ancient grease.

Griks are a sh1t mixed cocktail of Turks, Albanians, Macedonia,s gypsies, slavs, persians etc.


No matter the era, whichever the society, people always gaze at the stars when young. Then they stretch out their hands and try to catch them. And then one day, they realize their arms are not long enough to catch the stars, and thats when they grow up.


[linked image]

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

WAFFer
(Login shadow7warlord)
WAFFer

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 6:48 PM 

Funny how we have the nearly the same blood,traditions,language,characteristics,lands of the Ancient Hellenes...

If you Turgs think that you can hide your Mongolian-Arabic-Hellenic roots wit hsuch threads then by all means.

But understand that you shame your history by denying your roots...After all France,Germany,America have even worse past than you but they don't deny it...So grow up.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

(Login VG2000)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 7:20 PM 

Uhm-Pei-pei Greeks have lost their identity because it has not embraced its roots and history.

Greek history is not accurately taught and lost are the stories of the struggle and transformation of the Helenes from a rich culture to what they are now, a beggar nation.

How can Greeks embrace their afro-gypsy roots is gone are the stories of their defeats, enslavement and humiliation by their Romans, Turk and German masters?

How can Greeks appreciate the struggle of their women if forgotten is the story of the rape and-whoring out of their mothers, sisters and wives in the harems by their Turkish masters?

How can Greek children struggle to be better than their fathers if they are not taught their numerous failures?

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

WAFFer
(Login EimaiTrelos)
The Canucks (Canada)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 7:56 PM 

vg2000 has amassed thousands of posts on this site in a matter of weeks

dont you have a life hahaha you forum addicted loser?


you must not be an important person to have so much free time relating your theories of co*k sucking



bahahaha

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

(Login VG2000)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 8:11 PM 

@EimaiTrelos - LOL, Which means you must have read the thousands of posts that I wrote. You too need a life you cork-sucker! LOL

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
WAFFer
(Login TOROS_2000)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 8:44 PM 

GavurYunan,

Olympic Games is an international event (ongoing since 19th century) which take place with participation of many world nations and the name of "Olympics" is an adjustment with regard to similarty between the Ancient Olmypic Games as well as to emphasize the peace during the competition. Philhellenique French committee chose Athens as the first international Olympic Games held in the Modern era because Ancient Greece was the birthplace of the Olympic Games and Athens was perceived to be an appropriate choice to stage the inaugural modern Games. Historical-Geography is the main theme here, not the existence of people who were forced to speak "katharevousa".

So I don't undertsand what it has to do with the ethnicity of Greeks. If we should make such pointless comparisons, then I can ask that why Olympic Games are not held in Greece every year or why wrestlers are not naked and that would simply be the proof of no connection between the modern and ancient Greeks.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

WAFFer
(Login EimaiTrelos)
The Canucks (Canada)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 9:06 PM 

Nah you stupid turk, a quick search revealed your intense passionate level of faggotry.

Do you know how the internet works you fatass buffoon? bahahaha




 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.


(Login TurkishDomination)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 9:20 PM 

VG2000: eimai is on his period, ignore him LOL


No matter the era, whichever the society, people always gaze at the stars when young. Then they stretch out their hands and try to catch them. And then one day, they realize their arms are not long enough to catch the stars, and thats when they grow up.


[linked image]

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

(Login VG2000)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 23 2012, 9:26 PM 

"Nah you stupid turk, a quick search revealed your intense passionate level of faggotry.

Do you know how the internet works you fatass buffoon? bahahaha"
----------
Yes, you must have been doing your daily Goggling of "faggotry" for your personal consumption and found all my references of Greeks.....

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.


(Login hiddenwolf)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 24 2012, 4:49 PM 

We want Thrace for Turkish speakers!!!! Give us 2/3 generations!!!

-----------------------------
[linked image]


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
WAFFer
(Login Thermopylai)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 24 2012, 11:38 PM 

hahaha

i thought it was just Nirvie who bandied about Skopian propaganda....now its the rest of them....I wish the Turks would use some intelligence and use sources that at least were credible....

fact; ancient Greeks and modern Greeks share in most, similar traits and ancestry...

fact; we have still to complete expunge or abort the nasty left over turkishness in us .....it is what ruins Greece...a legacy of acting and thinking left over from the ottoman days.....lol


Turks have such little culture or history like spiteful little girls on their rags they got to deny ours....

as for Vagina.....he just needs to get laid.....release some of that estrogen ......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKEsmZoCKj4

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.


(Login hiddenwolf)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 29 2012, 2:06 PM 

Macedonia was never Hellenic!

-----------------------------
[linked image]

[linked image]


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

(Login GavurYunan)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 29 2012, 6:04 PM 

All right, I have had enough of this.

William Gladstone was the greatest British politician of the 19th century and served 4 terms as Prime Minister of Britain

Quote Prime Minister William Gladstone on the modern Greeks:
"In the first place, the English people of this generation are not less sensible than their forefathers have been of the debt which they in common with the world owe to the forefathers of the present Greek nation. The love of Greek literature I am happy to think and know is not decaying among us: of this we find abundant proof. Let me say, in the second place, that the race which now bears the Hellenic name in Europe , exhibiting abundant indications of the stock from which it is derived, gives from year to year more and more proof that it is a living and not a dead race, a race with a great future as well as an illustrious past, and that the fountain which has so long been opened for the benefit of mankind is a fountain which is not yet exhausted."
From the newspaper Morning Herald 19/8/1880


Now quote William Gladstone on the Turks:
"Let me endeavour, very briefly, to sketch, in the rudest outline what the Turkish race was and what it is. It is not a question of Mohammedanism simply, but of Mohammedanism compounded with the peculiar character of a race. They are not the mild Mohammedans of India, nor the chivalrous Saladins of Syria, nor the cultured Moors of Spain. They were, upon the whole, from the black day when they first entered Europe, the one great anti-human specimen of humanity. Wherever they went a broad line of blood marked the track behind them, and, as far as their dominion reached, civilization vanished from view."

William Gladstone
From his pamphlet Bulgarian Horrors and the Questions of the East (1876)



[IMG][linked image][/IMG]
William Ewart Gladstone, Prime Minister of Britain

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]



[IMG][linked image][/IMG

In this cartoon William Gladstone attacks the "Unspeakable Turk"!

I rest my case................[linked image]

..



"The Turkish Cypriots looted, robbed and ravaged Greek Cypriot properties. They must start producing instead of being mere consumers. The Turkish Cypriots wanted to live without working!"

Major-General Bedrettin Demirel (1917-1988)
Commander of the Turkish Invasion Forces in 1974

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
WAFFer
(Login TOROS_2000)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 29 2012, 6:13 PM 

Individual cartoons and quotations on communal base...impressive.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.

(Login GavurYunan)
Hellenic Hoplites (Greece)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 29 2012, 6:40 PM 

It hurts a lot, doesn't it? Aaaaouchhh!!! [linked image] [linked image]



TOROS2000:

H LEGE TI SIGHS KREITTON, H SIGHN EXE.

Euripides


Translation from Ancient Greek:

Either say something better than silence, or remain silent.

(especially when you lose an argument, I would add.)





..



"The Turkish Cypriots looted, robbed and ravaged Greek Cypriot properties. They must start producing instead of being mere consumers. The Turkish Cypriots wanted to live without working!"

Major-General Bedrettin Demirel (1917-1988)
Commander of the Turkish Invasion Forces in 1974

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
WAFFer
(Login TOROS_2000)
The Conquerors (Turkey)

Re: Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks

No score for this post
July 29 2012, 7:36 PM 

^^This perfectly fits to you. I've already said something that remained you silent. happy.gif

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Current Topic - Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks  Respond to this message   
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
WAFF recommends these sites

Indian Defence Analysis      [Definitive Lapse of Reason]