All all comic book superheroes, which does everyone think is most iconic? That is, the one most well known and/or loved by people.
My kneekerk reaction is Superman, as he began the superhero genre, and thanks to movies, tv, etc., he has become a comic book and pop culture icon. Other, more recent characters like Spider-Man, Captain America, and the X-Men, while still very popular, are nowhere near that level.
This being said, however, I can't help but wonder if Batman isn't in the process of stealing that title. Consider the highly successful Batman films, and the tv series (for good or bad) that cemented the character into pop culture. Has anyone read a "civilian"-authored article about comics that hasn't started out with a "BIFF!" or "POW!"? Further, Batman's cartoon and toy incarnations have been far more popular and plentiful in recent years, far more so that Superman's. Is Batman supplanting Superman as # 1?
I think it's Batman. Most people walking down the street could tell you about Bruce Wayne, Robin, Batgirl, the Batmobile, the Batcave, Gotham City, the utility belt, the Joker, Catwoman, and describe the costume and the insignia. Penguin, Riddler, Two-Face, and Mr. Freeze are probably known by civilians too.
With Superman, I think you would get Clark Kent, Lois Lane, Metropolis, kryptonite, super-strength, flying powers, the cape, the "S" on his chest, maybe X-ray vision ... and not much else. A generation or two earlier, I think most people would have known super-speed, heat vision, Lex Luthor, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, The Daily Planet, and more, but I'm not sure they are still at the tip of everyone's tongues. Superman's villains are almost completely unknown.
Brendan Howard
(edited because I forgot kryptonite)
This message has been edited by brenhow on Feb 20, 2004 10:10 AM
Among civilians, if you mention comic book superheroes, it's Superman and Batman, in that order. In Australia, The Phantom (remember Billy Zane?) comes in at third, especially with my parents' generation (um....around JB's age - did I say that out loud?) because back then the only comics they could get at the newsagent (translation for US:newsstand) was The Phantom and Black and White reprints of DC comics.
The Marvel characters are waaaaaaaaaaay behind here, and then it's XMen and Spiderman, because of the movies.
Any Australian civilian who mentions Captain America isn't REALLY a civilian...
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You are a god among insects. Never let anyone tell you different.
Clearly, Superman is the most iconic character. But something I've found interesting about him is that his rogues gallery is almost unknown. Even Lex Luthor doesn't enjoy the kind of universal recognition of The Joker, Penguin or the Riddler. So I'd say Batman's rogues is more iconic that Superman's.
'though for me, it'd be Captain Marvel (the SHAZAM! one). His costume just screams "superhero" (moreso than Superman's, even) and as Grant Morrison has said, there's something of a Sir Galahad quality to him. Plus, while Captain Marvel does have supernatural powers, he started out as (and can become) a regular kid, whereas Superman is a "strange visitor from another planet." If the character was as well known to the general public as Superman or Batman, he'd be my choice.
This message has been edited by GreggAllinson on Feb 19, 2004 11:56 PM
They're ALL very strong comicbook icons.
"Civilians" i know would probably know most
of the general info related to these characters
based on their world-wide exposure in comics,
television and movies.
All three have been widely appealing to the public in
one form or another and are instantly recognizable...
I can only speak as a Brit, but I think our perception is possibly quite a lot different to the US. Taking comic characters broadly, Michey Mouse and Tarzan are both more iconic than any of the superheroes. Looking solely at superheroes, Superman is probably the most iconic, although people will probably remember more about Batman because of the TV series (they'll recall the Batman theme ahead of the Superman theme, for instance). Spider-man is relatively little-known over here, even after the movie - Hulk is probably better known, again because of the TV series. In the UK, Dennis the Menace (UK version from the Beano) is far better known than any of the superheroes.
Not sure about perceptions through the rest of the world.
Even though Mickey Mouse has appeared in comics he is not considered a comic character. His first public appearance was in film. In the old Disney-MGM Animation Studio tour there was a film with Robin Williams saying in a Mickey Mouse voice "I'm a corporate icon"
At one point it was said that the two most recognizable people in the world were Muhammad Ali and Mickey Mouse.
I'm surprised only one mention I've read so far about Archie.
I agree it's Superman, hands down, but I'd put Archie far ahead of Batman or Spider-Man, at least in the U.S. We're talking "Iconic" here, not current popularity. I think most kids AND adults know Archie and can name all or most of his pals.
Here's another: Dick Tracy. Possibly losing his iconic status in younger generations, but ABSOLUTELY one of the great icons of the mid-20th century - again using the standard of "Civilians" knowing the character and his lore.
That's interesting. I was also considering listing Popeye, but wasn't sure if today's crop of kids has any idea who he is. For my generation, who grew up on reruns of reruns of reruns on Saturday mornings, spinach, Olive, and that theme song are permanently etched into the collective consciousness.
It's called THREAD DRIFT, Byrne! One thing started me thinking about another, and soon my mind began applying the question to a larger domain than just superheroes.
Hmm... I'll admit that by the time I got to the end of the messages, I had forgotten that "superhero" had been part of the original post, and gone strictly by the thread TITLE... Well, I Archie did have a brief stint as a superhero back in the '60s... Anyway, my bad!
While I'm posting again, I was thinking it's interesting how many PULP characters are thought of as COMICS charcters, and are themselves quite iconic... Doc Savage, Buck Rogers, Tarzan and the Shadow come to mind. EVERYONE knows the Shadow, but I'll bet most people think he originated in the comics (or possibly radio), not the pulps, which are largely forgotten by the public these days.
"Doc Savage, Buck Rogers, Tarzan and the Shadow come to mind. EVERYONE knows the Shadow"
I would wager that 9/10 would not know who the Shadow is. Same with Doc Savage, maybe even 10/10. Buck Rogers 6/10.
I'm talking about 10-15 year olds off the street.
I just asked 6 people in my office ages ranging from 29-57 male & female who Doc Savage was. No one knew. The closest guess was "Isn't he the musician with Johnny Carson?"
The only reason they knew the Shadow was from "Only the Shadow knows" line. Other than that they couldn't tell me a thing about what he did.
edited to add poll.
This message has been edited by craigdvc on Feb 20, 2004 3:58 PM This message has been edited by craigdvc on Feb 20, 2004 3:55 PM
I was playing Cranium with a group of 8 college graduates, aged 22-25. When the question came up, not one of them could tell me who hosted THE TONIGHT SHOW before Jay Leno. And none of them had ever heard of Howard Hughes.
It's getting so I never trust anyone to know anything.
Superman
Batman
Spider-Man ("...Nobody knows who you are...")
Younger crowds remove Spider-Man and add Wolverine.
Although Wonder Woman should be pretty close.
10-15 year-olds are more mass-media oriented nowadays. To reach them you have to have related movies or video games. Or manga/anime based graphics (which replaces the previous "Image" audience, as they've gotten older).
>>10-15 year-olds are more mass-media oriented nowadays. To reach them you have to have related movies or video games. Or manga/anime based graphics (which replaces the previous "Image" audience, as they've gotten older).<<
Never thought of that. Can anyone think of one videogame character that could one day be more popular than a comics icon? I think the only videogame character on his way to icon status could be Mario.
I might have to go with Asterix or Tintin or Les Schtroumpfs (Smurfs), as they're both reknown worldwide. Mickey mouse and Superman/Batman follow suite, and perhaps Bugs Bunny.
I have to Assume that Archie is, in reality, a North-American phenomenon, although his comics are translated into french here in Quebec.
JB wrote:
<<Mickey Mouse? Archie? Thread title notwithstanding, the question was about SUPERHEROES.>>
This may be more of a thread drift, but a guy I used to run into at comic book conventions always started talking about MR. CLEAN because he claimed he's as famous comic book superhero as Superman and Batman. I don't recall seeing MR. CLEAN in a comic book or even having his own cartoon show (he only had those TV commercials).
That guy also claimed he was an "expert" on comic books, but he had no clue about who I was talking about when I mentioned the name JACK KIRBY to him. When I explained to him who Jack is, he got mad and yelled at me (He always did this whenever I corrected him about something). These days I avoid him whenever I see him at a comic book convention.
In my opinion about the most iconic superhero, I would have to go with Batman (although I might have said Superman if I was asked this question 15 years ago). The Batman movies, IMO, are better than the Superman movies. Even Batman IV (the Clooney one is bad) was better than Superman IV (Very, very bad).
Besides whenever I am talking about superheroes with people who are not comic book fans, they usually mention Batman and then Superman.
I am a fan of Superman also. I loved the first two movies. The only reason I watch Superman III is just to look at Robert Vaughn. After all, he is "THE MAN FROM UNCLE."
Ah, youth. For those of us who grew up on TV shows of the mid-1960's, Mr. Clean was as iconic as the Esso Tiger, the Hathaway shirt man (with the eyepatch), and Mr. Whipple ("Please don't squeeze the Charmin!"). Something tells me that with his "look" (shaved head, big muscles and earring) now a normal fashion ensemble for a contemporary man, he'd be a much less distinctive representative of a product.
Incidentally, has anyone here ever wanted to take Poppin' Fresh, the Pillsbury Dough Boy, and slam that damned roll of dough over him until he splattered all over the kitchen? He was always a little TOO cute for me....
This message has been edited by MarkLerer on Feb 23, 2004 3:07 PM
Mark: "Incidentally, has anyone here ever wanted to take Poppin' Fresh, the Pillsbury Dough Boy, and slam that damned roll of dough over him until he splattered all over the kitchen? He was always a little TOO cute for me...."
Oh, he's ok in my book.
After all, he was created by Martin Nodell, a really nice, and great man who also created the Alan Scott Green Lantern.
Was that the man who died about two years ago? I seem to remember reading an obit of an ad-man who'd created a whole string of iconic characters. Also came up with Speedy for Alka-Seltzer, I think.
And since I just discovered that this is "Niceness Day," I'll moderate my rant about Poppin' Fresh, but, honestly, I always fantasized about giving him the "Mister Bill" treatment...
Mark, Martin Nodell is still with us, and I hope he is with us for many more years to come. He and his very nice wife usually attend many big conventions, such as WizardWorld in Chicago (Where I've visited him for the past three years). If you ever get the chance, I recommend that you talk with him.
I was glad to learn, talking with Mr. Nodell, that DC still supplies him with a copy of anything Green Lantern-related (any version of the character) that comes out. There's one instance where a company is doing the right thing.
BTW, am I the only one that is bothered that Wizard doesn't make a special section for legendary creators like Mr. Nodell, Shelly Moldoff, Russ Heath, etc., who want to attend the shows? I honestly feel that these older creators deserve a special spot, closer to the front of the convention, that the people running the convention should provide at no cost to the creator.
I mean no slight to the other fine people in "Artists' Alley," but, if not for Martin Nodell and his contemporaries, we wouldn't have a comic book industry to begin with.
Again, if you get the chance to see Mr. Nodell, do so!
Mark Lerer wrote:
<<Ah, youth. For those of us who grew up on TV shows of the mid-1960's, Mr. Clean was as iconic as the Esso Tiger, the Hathaway shirt man (with the eyepatch), and Mr. Whipple ("Please don't squeeze the Charmin!"). Something tells me that with his "look" (shaved head, big muscles and earring) now a normal fashion ensemble for a contemporary man, he'd be a much less distinctive representative of a product.>>
I remember the Esso Tiger (Esso later became Exxon) and Mr. Whipple's been around forever. My favorite commercial character is Quisp. In fact, I sent in a bunch of box tops of the cereal just to get the Quisp Propeller Helmet. I wish my mom didn't throw that out. I heard that it's worth more than $300!!!
Well, if you remember Quisp, then you've got to remember Quake. I've been trying to figure who the original breakfast-cereal icon might be, the predeccessor to Quisp, Quake, King Vitaman, Frankenberry, and so forth, and I'm recalling Captain Crunch, the Cheerios Kid, and of course, Tony the Tiger ("They're grrrrreat!"). Can anyone come up with an earlier one?
"BTW, am I the only one that is bothered that Wizard doesn't make a special section for legendary creators like Mr. Nodell, Shelly Moldoff, Russ Heath, etc., who want to attend the shows? I honestly feel that these older creators deserve a special spot, closer to the front of the convention, that the people running the convention should provide at no cost to the creator.
"I mean no slight to the other fine people in "Artists' Alley," but, if not for Martin Nodell and his contemporaries, we wouldn't have a comic book industry to begin with."
Matt, brother, you have hit the nail squarely on the head. You describe a generation of men and women (mostly with white hair nowadays) that we owe so much to--and deserve to be honored--and too many fans have no idea who they are, what they did, and how much can be learned from them. It would seem to me that the principle reason why we have comic cons in the first place is to celebrate their lives and their work.
I've been trying to figure who the original breakfast-cereal icon might be, the predeccessor to Quisp, Quake, King Vitaman, Frankenberry, and so forth, and I'm recalling Captain Crunch, the Cheerios Kid, and of course, Tony the Tiger ("They're grrrrreat!"). Can anyone come up with an earlier one?
they first appeared in 1933. Tony the tiger was introduced in the '50s, Captain Crunch in the '60s, and Count Chocula, Frankenberry, and a bazillion others in the '70s.
None of which are as iconic as Superman (just to pretend I'm somewhere close to the topic).
Yes, I remember Quake. I also remember when he changed his costume to look more like a superhero, but I loved Quisp more. Something about that propeller on his head.
Of course the irony of nostalgia is that we highly intelligent men and women are recalling fondly a product marketed as a breakfast food for children made almost entirely of processed sugar.
