I know AF wasn't a favorite time in your career, JB...and I hope you won't mind me posting this.
Scott Lobdell(who you may know, is writing the new AF series) wrote a very nice letter at the end of the issue about his first experience with the group(in Uncanny X-Men, of course). At the end he mentions JB, and pays him some very deserved compliments. I just thought it was very sweet.
"John Byrne did it first...and did it best!(And yes, Chris Claremont did his part, but only the pencil of one of the greatest comic book artists in the history of the medium could have lavished that much affection on characters he'd been carrying around in his hip pocket since, well, since the invention of the hip.)"
The first issue itself, was a bit disappointing...it was(of course) written in TPB-friendly form and not much was accomplished, other than introductions of the new team(who are...Sasquatch, Major Mapleleaf[cringe], Puck II, Nemesis, Centennial, and Yukon Jack[cringe II]..if anyone didn't know).
Dana
EDITED to add the "spoilers" in the header.
This message has been edited by cmdrkoenig67 on Mar 4, 2004 1:46 PM
Yukon Jack doesn't make me shiver nearly so much as Major Mapleleaf! Good lord! At least "Yukon Jack" says something! "MM" is an INSULT, hurled by Banshee, IIRC.
"Major Mapleleaf" is what we called Guardian/Vindicator when we were trying to think of a good name (since Shooter insisted I could not use "Guardian" as Marvel already had the Guardians of the Galaxy). As often happens with such things, the name continued to bounce around the Office until it actually got used.
Where are Beer And Donuts Man and Captain Inexpensive Mail-Order Pharmaceuticals?
Okay...I'm not Canadian, but one of the cool things about Alpha Flight was that the characters were representative of Canada's ethnic groups/regions without being caricatures or stereotypes. The team had French-Canadians, an Indian, a guy from the west coast, a woman (er, amphibious humanoid) from the maritime provinces, etc., etc. In fact, JB, I'm pretty sure I recall reading that you had this very idea in mind when you created the team.
Now I could be jumping to conclusions here, since I haven't read the new book (and don't intend to), but I see a name like "Major Mapleleaf" in the context of a Canadian superhero team, and I think...caricature; stereotype; total dearth of creativity. Really. How long did it take somebody to think of naming a Canadian superhero "Major Mapleleaf"...?
As JB would say: feh...
Edited after reading JB's post (directly preceding mine): oops. (*Ahem*...) I'd never heard that story about Guardian/Vindicator being called Major Mapleleaf, and I wasn't aware that there had been a character of that name in the original AF run...must have happened after I stopped reading the book. Have to stand by what I said, though: the name's funny in jest, but to apply it in earnest to a character still seems...I don't know. Corny. Lazy. Something not so good.
This message has been edited by EPDownum on Mar 4, 2004 2:04 PM
Robert Kowalewski II (Login Renfairrob) Byrne Victim
I paged through it....
March 4 2004, 1:57 PM
....and put it back down again. No one seems to be able to get this team right except John Byrne(even if it wasn't his favorite child). I even read the second series for a while and of course gave up after a couple issues(it only lasted 20+ issues if I recall correctly). She-Hulk comes out next week, lets see if they can ruin that too.
LOL! Yukon Jack was my drink of choice back in my college days. I used to drink it mixed with cola or (when I really felt like being mean to myself) straight shots. I never failed to gross out my friends or unsuspecting bartenders when I would order the stuff.
My reason for drinking this crud was simple - I hated beer, which limited me to the hard stuff. Not wanting to have a stash around that my college chums would break into and steal from me when I wasn't looking, I chose the most repulsive, rotgut whiskey that I could find. I can't guarantee that there wasn't anything more disgusting around, but I shudder to think that someone might have been selling something worse.
"it still baffles me that JB is not a fan of his own AF. that series was the most fun i've had on a month-to-month reading basis, before or since."
Same here. I almost feel bad for liking it so much now that I know JB wasn't so fond of it. AF was one of the rare books in the MU where anything could happen (such as the team leader being blown to bits thanks to his wife's accidental distraction, to eventually be replaced as leader by said powerless wife). It also featured some of the most complex relationships that I can remember. A fun ride, for me at least!
I loved Alpha Flight...one of my favorite JB runs.
First time around, I was too young to pick up the clues and figure out that Northstar was gay. I didn't feel like I was missing out on anything, though. That is a perfect example of writing juvenile fiction with enough layers to entertain the kids and the grown-ups.
I remember being really upset when Guardian died. And being really happy a year later when "he" found his way back from the moons of Jupiter. Unfortunately, that feeling didn't last long...(darn robots!)
IMHO, they should've ended the series with JB's last issue. No need to show what happens after the Hulk tears into Box - just end the series!
The only way i would try a new ALPHA FLIGHT series was if Mister Byrne came back as writer/artist... I can always dream, can I?
I loved John Byrne's ALPHA FLIGHT!!! At least the team really sounded and looked canadian in those days! Great stuff!
I remember being soooo pissed off when JB switched titles with HULK's creative team... Maybe that's why JB's run on the ol' Green Goliath is probably one of the rare times i didn't appreciate his work... Bill Mantlo never came close to John Byrne's "sense" of what made this team canadian... And that awful, stupid waste of good talent of having Gerry Talaoc (good artist on his own) inking a young Mike Mignola whose style was way too cramped in pages with too much copy... Oh well...
For many years, two John Byrne dream projects i always hoped for were his return on ALPHA FLIGHT and his handling of a DOOM PATROL ongoing series... Looks like I might get one of these pretty soon... Heh?
One, despite knowing how JB feels about the book, I loved Alpha Flight, for all the reasons Lobdell says (and doesn't say). The team was a pretty damn good fit of a lot of Canadian aspects, without being cartoony. Sometimes these were the powers (Sasquatch, Snowbird, Shaman) sometimes they weren't (Northstar, Aurora, Puck) and sometimes they were just the clothes (Guardian)!
They were also visually dynamic, with a common theme throughout their uniforms, and that jagged maple-leaf-inspired design was a winner. So I love the concept of the book.
Two, I really enjoy Clayton Henry's art. I liked him on Exiles, and I like his stuff here.
The book was a little jokey for my tastes, but I'll give it a chance. As far as I'm concerned, paying respect is a good way to earn it, and Lobdell's Byrne credits in the lettercol earned him mine.
____________________________________________
You are a god among insects. Never let anyone tell you different.
I remember being really upset when Guardian died. And being really happy a year later when "he" found his way back from the moons of Jupiter. Unfortunately, that feeling didn't last long...(darn robots!)
******
You're not alone. At Mid-Ohio-Con a couple of years back I met Andy Hallett and Mark Lutz, respectively Lorne and the Grusalugg on ANGEL. Alas, I did not know who either of them were at that time, but Mark and I became buddies based on him being Canadian and his sharing with me all the bodily harm he wished upon me when I killed Guardian!
Not often one is threatened, even retroactively, by an extradimensional warrior!
Don MacPherson's review rightly points out why a Canadian should be writing AF:
In a strip joint, someone references "singles," as in $1 bills, which no longer exist in Canada.
*************************************************
Maybe he just needs to do some research?
Then again, it might be like some strip joints in Australia (which doesn't have $1 bills either) which have Monopoly-style money that you buy on your way in, and then you hand it to the girls in singles....
um, so I hear... ;P
____________________________________________
You are a god among insects. Never let anyone tell you different.
That pic that Charles posted - I seem to recall that that was used for the cover of Marvel Age (#2 was it?) and for advertising, but it sure looks like a dynamic cover to me - was it ever intended to be used as a cover for Alpha Flight?
Seeing that JB artwork made me realise something I never thought of before. They look like a team. Check out the lines onthe outfits of Guardian, Northstar, Aurora, Shaman, and Snowbird. They've all got variations on a similar motif goin' on. Compltely individual (well, except for the twins), yet obviously together at the same time.
Puck* and Marina comin' up from Beta flight explains why they don't match so much, and that's neat in itself.
i especially loved the characterization of Aurora and
how JB redisigned her outfit and hairstyle. During that
run JB showed his best even though it's been said that
he wasn't "thrilled" with the team as a ongoing series.
The Marvel Age cover image of AF posted above (in beauteous black & white, no less) reminds me that John's AF run needs to be available in trade paperback!
Since ESSENTIAL X-MEN proved how incredible JB's work is in the original b&w, and since his whole AF run could fit into one volume (okay, it would be pretty thick!), how about ESSENTIAL ALPHA FLIGHT? This terrific image of the team could be the cover art there as well!
(Unless they are waiting for AF vol. 3 to be cancelled first. If you were Quesada and were relanching AF, wouldn't YOU reprint John's original stuff???)
Ian
p.s. I would move the "Origins of Alpha Flight" back-up stories to the front of the ESSENTIAL collection, similar to how Dark Horse moved NEXT MEN #6 to the front of Book One.
Unlike the US, in Ontario and Quebec one does not place money of any kind on the stage for the girls to pick up. If one does, it has to be a $5. The reason for this is that generally speaking, the clubs usually only have one main stage, and the girls make their money buy wandering around and offering table or lap dances at the tables. Strangely enough these dances are cheaper than in the US as well, especially with the exchange.
I fondly remember my culture shock my last night in L.A. having a lot to do with these differences
Do you remember how the name "Vindicator" came about, by any chance?
*******
Chris came up with that name, and I hated it instantly. I pointed out that it made no sense, since Canada has nothing to "vindicate". (Chris was thinking of the name of an airplane, which sounded "cool". We were never quite on the same page as far as how and why superheroes get their names.*)
I said at that time that "Vindicator" would have made a better name for a German superhero.
I was fightimg all along for "Guardian", of course, derived from the Canadian National Anthem (". . .we stand on guard for thee. . . ") but, as I have mentioned, was overruled by Shooter because Marvel already had the Guardians of the Galaxy.
One of my conditions when I finally let Marvel persuade me to do an Alpha Flight book was that I get to change the name to Guardian.
(The character's original name, by the way, when he was one of my fan characters, was "the Canadian Shield", which is the name of a mountain range.)
JB: "(The character's original name, by the way, when he was one of my fan characters, was "the Canadian Shield", which is the name of a mountain range.)"
It's funny to read that, JB, as I created a character by that name back in grade school. I may have told this on the old board, because I believe I remember you mentioning Guardian's original name before, but I'll tell it again:
When I was in Seventh or Eighth grade, we were learning about Geography and the Canadian Shield was mentioned. Well, being a big comic book fan, the first thing I thought was "Cool! A new superhero name!" I quickly whipped up a design, in class (Whoops! ), of a man that was basically my version of Canada's answer to Captain America. He had a sheild, though I made it look closer to the triangular Golden-Age Captain America version, with a stylised maple leaf on the front.
I'll have to find an old pic and post it here some time. A few years later, in high school, I redrew the maple leaf to look more like it was supposed to look.
Funny thing was, since I am not a Canadian, and as a child I really didn't know much more about Canada than that part of the population there spoke French, I remember thinking, "How do I write a Canadian"?
This was after Alpha Flight's appearance in "Uncanny X-Men," but before the team received its' own title. I always wondered why nobody else snatched up the name, as I still think its' cool sounding. I made up a few pages of a solo story with the Canadian Shield as a kid, as well as giving him a guest appearance in another one of my heroes homemade comic books.
Hey, JB, if you don't ever plan on using the name, can I keep it?
Edited for typo's.
This message has been edited by MattHawes on Mar 5, 2004 10:44 AM
I so want to like this book, but they keep making it so damn difficult. I told myself that I would not buy this title, but I did it anyway after seeing it on the shelf. There's a part of me deep down inside that would like to recapture lightning in a bottle with my all time favorite Marvel book, but this aint it. Nothing significant happens in the first issue. We don't even get a understanding of their powers and abilities. Where's the excitement? This book should've been double sized and kicked off with a bang.
We should've had codenames and powers by the middle of the book. Move along folks, nothing to see here.
I finally read this issue last night and, wow, was it bad. Boring, painfully UNfunny, bad art, stupid characters, crappy writing, terrible narration captions.
This will last 6 issues, max.
Current Topic - JB mention in Alpha Flight #1(SPOILERS)
), of a man that was basically my version of Canada's answer to Captain America. He had a sheild, though I made it look closer to the triangular Golden-Age Captain America version, with a stylised maple leaf on the front. 