This thread is continued from:

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I am going hunting for John Byrne back issues featuring Doom Patrol. I'm pretty sure I have a few of them already. Would it be possible for someone to please post small pictures of the John Byrne Doom Patrol back issues?

It's been 15 years since I bought a Comic Book
March 10 2004 at 8:48 PM Joe Welsh   (Select Login linuxgeek)
Byrne Victim
from IP address 151.197.240.46
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and boy am I excited. After lurking here since October and getting caught up in last night's excitement, I went out and bought JLA #94.

(drum roll, Please.....)

I loved it! It was interesting to see how the medium has changed since I stopped collecting. Since I missed the the industry blowup in the 90's it was very nostalgic walking into a deserted comic shop. I asked the kid where they put JLA 94 and he didn't even know that they had received it yet. (what a waste...)

I look forward to rekindling my interest and hopefully I will be able to pass this interest to my son.

Kudos to Mr. Byrne and this forum for making me excited about comics (again)

Joe

I was secretly hoping it would be the Doom Patrol, and I am so glad that it is! AS a matter of fact, I am going to order the Doom Patrol Archives, mailny because of the beautiful art, and to learn a litle about the characters. I cannot wait to see what adventures you have in store for the Doom Patrol, JB.

I am actually excited about comics again. Thank you JB for giving me something too look forward too. Well, DP and The JLA run too!

JB and Doom Patrol....

WOW

I have always liked Doom Patrol. I have all of their runs from the 80s till the last one. I have loved every incarnation. I am going to have to hunt down the Archives to see the originals.

The only hope I have for JB's Doom Patrol, is that it is firmly rooted in the DCU!

If Superman farts, I want The Chief to ask "Who did that?"

If Wonder Woman has men troubles; Rita is a phone call away.

Other than that, the sky is the limit!!!


&%$#, I love Comics!!!!!

The only hope I have for JB's Doom Patrol, is that it is firmly rooted in the DCU!

******


Being spun outta JLA kinda guarantees that one, no?

JB-)

JB,

Excellent "first issue". I'm definitely looking forward to the next few issues... and then DOOM PATROL! Just one (more) question for you: Did Claremont do all the dialogue or did you write it for the characters of DP?

Why the reboot of the Doom Patrol? I am glad you're doing the series, but why the restart from ground zero this late in the game?

Keith

I just found out who will be inking John on Doom Patrol and he has inked John's pencils before. Shhhhh.


Be seeing you,
Brian

Steve, the only art I know of is Secret Origins Annual #1. He also did several pictures of the Doom Patrol profile pages in Who's Who In The DC Universe. He did pictures for the Doom Patrol, Elasti-Girl, Robotman, Negative Man, and The Chief. Those pages are absolutely amazing and frankly some of the best Byrne art I've seen. you can tell there is something extra in them.

And Obviously the upcoming JLA 94-99.

Read some of the Newsarama Board comments, and it's fanny and sad at the same time.

While I do think that the Titans "Search for the Doom Patrol's Killers" was an outstanding story, it is more than 20 years ago, and it was pre-Crisis. It and subsequent Dayton appearances live on in Hypertime on Earth One.

As far as JLA: Year One goes. I read, I liked it, but frankly I don't even remember the DP in it, and I didn't consider it "canon" even as it was published.

JB, as far as this fan cares, the coast is clear.

I wouldn't change Logan's origin at all.It would be funny to see him wandering the DCU, trying to convince everyone that there's been a massive continuity change.
In fact I would make him remember EVERY hypertime alteration ...and allow him to dream only in the Manga style.
Being a fan of Morrison's Doom Patrol, I look at this reboot as Cliff finally catching a break. It'll be fun to see them all shiny and new,with just a hint of nostalgia.

Steve, the only art I know of is Secret Origins Annual #1. He also did several pictures of the Doom Patrol profile pages in Who's Who In The DC Universe. He did pictures for the Doom Patrol, Elasti-Girl, Robotman, Negative Man, and The Chief. Those pages are absolutely amazing and frankly some of the best Byrne art I've seen. you can tell there is something extra in them.

*********

Thanks, David. The hunt is on!

I don't know how far off this strays, but JB did some illustrations for some Doom Patrol villians in the Who's Who, too.

Mike O'Brien

I just picked up the Doom Patrol Archives (Vol. 1 of course) today.

Arnold Drake writes in his introduction that the original DP series was selling 250,000 copies a month when it was cancelled with #121 (the DP's 41st adventure in their own strip). "Management decided to let it go," Drake writes, as sales were "down." Wow! What were they at their peak, 300,000? How times have changed, eh?

How often has a book of yours cracked 250K, JB? If I remember correctly your Fantastic Four was in the 220K range, and I was proud to be one of the buyers. Did Alpha Flight outsell FF, on average? I remember AF as being incredibly popular on the playground (I was ten when it debuted), second only to X-Men.

In any event, here's hoping the new DP sells well enough to generate some much-deserved royalty checks!
Ian

>>Was there anything else? Wasn't there a Superman/Action Comics crossover?<<

Superman and the Paul Kupperberg-revived DP fought Metallo in Doom Patrol (vol. 2) #10, which is drawn by Erik Larsen. The story concluded in JB's Superman #20 (great cover!). Pages 11 and 12 of the latter have Cliff and Metallo duking it out. Guess those pages will be pretty expensive on eBay before long!

Btw, Karl Kesel was an awesome JB inker! I loved his work on the Legends mini, too.

Ian
"An' like I keep tellin' ya . . . don't call me Robotman!!"
--Cliff Steele, Superman #20 (August 1988)

Did Claremont do all the dialogue or did you write it for the characters of DP?

********

I jotted notes for suggested dialog in most of the key scenes thru-out the arc. When it was Doom Patrol scenes, or scenes featuring the DPatrol, those notes were more detailed.

I just found out who will be inking John on Doom Patrol and he has inked John's pencils before. Shhhhh.

******


Only if you count the "audition" page he (and several others) did.

why the restart from ground zero this late in the game?

******


Precisely because it is "late in the game". If this book as any hope of succeeding in the present marketplace, it needs to attract as many new readers as possible -- not just aging fanboys who have memorized every comma of past iterations.

I am hoping the new series will have, as the saying goes, "something for everyone" -- but I don't want anyone thinking they can't start reading without "doing their homework".

JB>>Only if you count the "audition" page he (and several others) did.<<

An inker mentioned on Newsarama's message board was supposed to be your inker on Amazing Spider-Man before Scott Hanna picked up the brush. But I would assume this inker would have inked audition pages for ASM as well as DP, so . . . perhaps the rumor is unfounded.

Ian
(I like Wiacek inks on Byrne pencils--his New Gods issues were terrific! Maybe next time.)

Great news on the DP ongoing - frankly, I'm there for anything by JB, and have been since the FF days. As a result, I'm looking forward to the series and also to TBA - the thought of John doing two books in the same universe at the same time gets me all nostalgic...

But (and I know this is one of those annoying continuity things that half the folks get wound up about and the other half ridicule) this WON'T be the Doom Patrol's first DCU appearance since the Crisis in the mainstream universe (discounting the Vertigoesue revamp and the Arcudi run) for one very simple reason - JLA: YEAR ONE.

The team featured prominently in a few issues of that mini, showing that they were active at the time the JLA was formed.

Responses/theories?

Didn't happen. Parallel universe. Another "Hypertimeline." Call it whatever you want; it's all fiction!

If you want to track down previous DPatrol stuff I have done, or any of the earlier versions of the DPatrol just for fun , please do! Enjoy! But I am really starting to get a vibe here that many of you think you need to have read the earlier stuff, that you have to "do your homework" before you plunge into the new series. And that is not the case. Not, not, not the case!

The last thing I need is a buzz getting started that causes potential new readers to think they can't start this book because it has too much "continuity" dragging along behind it.

Responses/theories?

*******


Two words: Wonder Woman.

I loved the first issue of "The Tenth Circle". It featured great teaser sequences with the soon to be revealed Doom Patrol members. I think Mr. Byrne did a-not-unexpected incredible job with this.

As for his collaborators on the project, part of the fun of having an established inker join another top pro on a project is to see their "styles" mesh. Regardless of various opinions stated elsewhere, I enjoyed both the Byrne elements and the Ordway touches, Chris helped out quite a bit too.

I believe this book to be one of the best comics to come from DC so far this year. It will only be eclipsed by the actual Doom Patrol itself.

Is Karl Kesel still doing inks???

Precisely because it is "late in the game". If this book as any hope of succeeding in the present marketplace, it needs to attract as many new readers as possible -- not just aging fanboys who have memorized every comma of past iterations.

I am hoping the new series will have, as the saying goes, "something for everyone" -- but I don't want anyone thinking they can't start reading without "doing their homework".


>>>>

Please don't get me wrong, I was just curious. I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with the characters. I'm sure that Geoff Johns will have something ready to fill in the gaps for Beast Boy. Sad about all that, but I'm sure it'll be a fun ride either way.

Here is hoping you do something with Mento as well...
Keith

HD wrote:

Is Karl Kesel still doing inks???

<<<<<<<<

Heh - Someone after my own heart - and managed to spell Kesel's name correctly (unlike me in a different thread). Unfortunately, it seems the inker on Doom Patrol has only inked JB on an "audition" page (see earlier in this thread) - so it can't be Kesel.

In other news, I'm very happy I won't have to know anything about Doom Patrol in order to pick up the new series. Having grown up a Marvelite, I really have no idea who or what the Doom Patrol is, so it should be fun finding out!

Maybe Kesel would be willing to pick up the nibs and brushes for "To Be Announced?"

CJ

Unfortunately, it seems the inker on Doom Patrol has only inked JB on an "audition" page (see earlier in this thread) - so it can't be Kesel.



*******


I've never made a secret of the fact that I did not care for Kesel's inks over my pencils, so that he is not inking DOOM PATROL is not something I would consider "unfortunate".


And now a small rant:

I wish you folk would pay a little more attention to how you phrase your comments. I have lost track of the number of times I have been deeply insulted by even the most well meaning fan, simply because the wrong choice of words was used. This is a good example. I'm not insulted by the above, but imagine how the DPATROL inker might feel if he read this and learned that his election to the job was considered, sight unseen, "unfortunate". Not what you meant, perhaps -- but definitely how it reads.

I'm sure whoever the inker is, he was chosen on the merit of how well he works with you and your art. So, I'm really looking forward to it.

That said..I'm sure we'll know soon who the inker is. I would personally prefer a try-out system (if it can be called that). I'll use the cover to JLA #99 as an example. That cover is all Byrne and it looks fabulous. I want the inked page to resemble that image as it is almost black now. It seems altering that existing image would be a shame, and would border on embellishment rather than inking. Someone is going to ink Byrne art and a team will be made for whatever reason. Farmer and Davis, Infantino and Anderson, Schaffenberger and Hunt, Jim Lee and Scott Williams. Some people work well together. That said, the inking issue is rather moot, because only Byrne knows best how to ink Byrne IMO. If a penciller and inker can develop that stylistic bond then magic can happen, but otherwise it always seems the art ends up being something less or something different than what it was originally. That's an opinion and not a slight to anyone.

Hi JB!

I was wondering if you would be able to talk about how this new DP series came about? Did you have to pitch a concept? What was the catalyst that was finally able to let DC greenlight you doing DP?

You had mentioned that DC likes to shelve titles for awhile after they are cancelled.... Just curious is all...

Been waiting for this for years!

We'd been kicking around the idea of my taking a shot at the DOOM PATROL for several months before it all came together. When the last series was canceled and DC decided to not wait a couple of years to try again, I was asked to submit a couple of paragraphs outlining what I had in mind for the series.

This is what I sent 'em, "censored" to avoid too many SPOILERS:

...am...struck...speechless...

If the inker on Doom Patrol is who I think it is, I'm very much looking forward to the collaboration. He has inked another artist I like very much who has a style I've always found to be reminiscent of JB's mid-eighties work. This should work out well.

As to reading the earlier stuff, I've read exactly two Doom Patrol stories in my entire life: The Secret Origins annual, and the appearance in Superman (Gee, what's the connection there?). I plan to NOT buy a single DP back issue or archive, for the express reason that I want to be the rhesus monkey for this experiment. I've read a lot of detractors whining about the lost continuity, and they all seem to be forgetting the real reason DP is starting fresh:

IT WASN'T SELLING!

Now, I'd buy DP anyway, just because JB is doing it. However, I should be able to prove to the detractors that the DP recharge (*) is bringing new DP fans to the fold.



(*)I never liked the term "reboot" in regards to comic relaunches. "Recharge" sounds more positive. Refreshing, and gives the correct impression that there is a new energy behind the project.




David Alan Carr
http://www.atlscript.org

No mini-skirt? Darn.

Dave, this is a noble sentiment, but get off your ass and go buy the Doom Patrol archives.

DOOM PATROL sketch ... so pretty ... passing out.

***thud***

Brendan Howard

Oh yeah!
Looks like Nudge, Vortex and "Grunt" are on the team!

I'm glad you added a few new characters to the mix, John. While I love the originals like everyone else, the new characters will help it establish the book's identity.

And I'm glad you brought back the "Unwanted Power" motif.
I remember how much more interesting Cyborg of the Titans was when he felt "doomed" to be a freak with powers, while he'd give anything (including those powers) to be normal again.

I could give a rats ass that each new incarnation did not EXACTLY follow continuity seemlessly!

I LOVED the original 60's version

Enjoyed the 70's New Team

Loved Perez and Wolfmans Titans take on the DP

LOVED JB's Secret Origins Annual

Loved the Steve Lightle issues of DP

(Thought the Erik Larson issues looked like a baby had its dirty bottom whiped on the page)

Tried the Morrison run but it was just too damn weird for weird's sake... Some interesting concepts but it was NOT the Doom Patrol and lost interest very quickly. (I got into Sandman by Gaimen BEFORE it was KEWL and lost steam on that as well..)

The last DP series I looked at but it looked like a lame attempt at Gen 13 which I loathe so I skipped it.

DP is a great concept and the people that "Got It" did them fantastically..... JB "Gets" the DP! I'm exited about comics like I have not been in a long, long time! Finally the creator we have wanted to see on these characters is finally doing it!

and this if I can quote Flounder from Animal House....

"...Oh boy, is this gonna be GREAT!!!"

BTW... does anyone know what threads the two previous pics were in:

1. The one where Flash is catching a girl (Nudge), who's running from "Grunt"?
2. The pic with Vortex and a few others under falling debris?

-Lee

DP is a great concept and the people that "Got It" did them fantastically..... JB "Gets" the DP!

******


Sometimes we all stand so close these damn trees get in the way of use being able to see the forest. For me, it's all about looking at the title, or the name of the character. Sure, we could do a book called "Superman" that was about a nerdy accountant who failed at everything he attempted in life, and so was mocked by people who called him "Superman" derisively -- but when we hear the word "superman", even without the superhero context, we think of a being who is more than human .

It's sort of like the Darkening at DC, when a kind of madness settled over the company and we were getting "dark" versions of everyone. Characters like Aquaman and Congorilla. Seriously -- are these the names of "dark" characters?

So, DOOM PATROL. That sounds pretty straightforward to me. Doesn't sound like a book I would pick up expecting weird existential gobble-de-gook. Sounds like straighforward superheroing.

(The flip side of this particular coin holds, too. Sometimes we stand so close we forget how some of these names sound to civilians. I was talking with a non-comic buddy a while back, and I happened to mention Doctor Doom. As I said the name, I suddenly realized how very silly it would sound to an "untrained ear". And I remember how, back when the Silver Surfer was being tossed around as a candidate for a big Hollywood movie, I got to thinking how very silly that name would sound to the uninitiated.)

JB!

Three months is too much to wait!!!

But is better to know that soon we will have monthly doses of your work! Thanks!
And the Doom Patrol!
Wow!
Believe me, it's been years since I been this excited about a comic!
Thanks JB for being a TRUE professional and a TRUE master in the comics field!

Víctor Manuel Fernández Patiño
"Say NO to trolls"
Somewhere in Mexico City

JB: I was asked to submit a couple of paragraphs outlining what I had in mind for the series.

---

Situate this on JLA project timeline please..

--Danton

JB: I was asked to submit a couple of paragraphs outlining what I had in mind for the series.
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Situate this on JLA project timeline please..

******

That would be roughly. . .

DC starts contemplating a DOOM PATROL relaunch and asks me for a pitch. Nothing is immediately decided upon.

Carlin becomes JLA editor and asks me to do an arc. I agree.

I work out the basics of the arc. (Vampires, 10th Circle.)

Carlin suggest we relaunch the DPatrol thru the JLA story. I agree and rework elements of the story to incorporate the DPatrol.

Damn, JB -- that pencilled image of Cliff looks AWESOME! WOW!

Looking at it, I found myself thinking that it would make a great Iron Man armor!



Along those same lines, I also realized that of the lead character of Fused (a Dark Horse title that started out as an Image book) is very similar to DP's Cliff Steele in many ways. Not derivative or anything, just similar character concepts to some degree, which is interesting, because I only buy about 3 - 5 comics per month, and Fused just happens to be the only non-DC book I buy (and I haven't purchased a M****l book in almost a year now, FWIW). That makes me think that the Cliff Steele character (and the Doom Patrol in general) may have gotten into my head more than I thought.

Looking forward to seeing where this story goes -- and I'm REALLY glad we'll be getting it bi-weekly!



-- JCB

One question John....

Why is Larry's name spelled Traynor, instead of Trainor? I was curious if this was a reboot change.

Dana

EDITED TO ADD: I love that the DP are in team uniforms...Yay!

All the "uproar" (most of it from the usual suspects) about the Doom Patrol reboot reminds me how nuts some segments of fandom has gotten with its slavish devotion to continuity.

Characterization is important: Batman and Superman don't kill (well, not anymore). Spider-Man's personal life is usually a mess, and so on.

But was it ever intended that every story ever published must "count." And that any change made would "ruin" previous stories ("JLA: Year One is out of continuity now! Now it's worthless!" Huh?).

It's sort of the same thing with Superman: Birthright. I'm not crazy about the changes to Lex Luthor (too much tail wagging the dog in re: Smallville), but would new readers really notice if the Lex in the comics was no longer the Lex who appeared in Man of Steel? In fact, is it so wrong if DC decides to tell a new Superman "origin"? Or a new Batman "origin"?

Man of Steel and Year One were sixteen years ago. How many times were Batman and Superman's origins retold back in the Silver Age? Certain things remained the same but the actual story was slightly different, updated, or tweaked. It was like the oral tradition, which is befitting of "legends" like Superman and Batman. But no one went around screaming, "This new Superman origin invalidates Superman #133 or whatever! Now that issue is worthless!"

My wish is for stories to be judged based on how they read as Superman stories or *Spider-Man* stories. I want to see fans say, "This is not a good Spider-Man story because it's not what Spider-Man is about (that was my major beef with the Aunt May discovers Peter Parker is Spider-Man issue)" rather than "This is not a good story because it contradicts continuity!"

I don't mind people criticizing the new Doom Patrol or Superman: Birthright, but I wish they were doing it for better reasons.

This will be changed to black leather bodysuits for the movie "adaptation".

Darn it!
I just read JLA #94 and now all my Watchmens are no longer canon!!!
I guess I'll just throw them all away!

*I've never made a secret of the fact that I did not care for Kesel's inks over my pencils, so that he is not inking DOOM PATROL is not something I would consider "unfortunate".*

Oh. SSorry to hear that. I really liked Karl working with you on Superman, it seemed a nice mixture. Never having seen the pencilled art, I cannot really comment on it, though. It just «clicked» with me, just as Terry Austin and you seemed a good fit (albeit in a different fashion)

Nevertheless, there's a whole range of inkers I'd imagine to work well with you, from Keith Champagne to Paul Neary and way beyond that, and I'm thrilled to see someone new embellish your artwork

Darn it!
I just read JLA #94 and now all my Watchmens are no longer canon!!!
I guess I'll just throw them all away!
---
JB should write a story explaining why you shouldn't throw them all away.

Good stuff, your post.

Why is Larry's name spelled Traynor, instead of Trainor?

****Bad memory! It's Trainor in the book.

Er. . . at least, I think it is. . . .

JB-)