Just wanted to say that I enjoyed the art on the Hawkman issue.. although I would have preferred both pencils and inks by John. I truthfully didn't expect much from the story since it is basically a fill in issue; however, it was a reasonably interesting story. Did I detect a couple of Kubert-esque poses of the hawks?
The question was rhetorical, but the poses were much appreciated by this old Hawman fan (as were the Murphy Anderson ones I also think were there). Your art certainly has 'class' in my view of things.
I haven't had a chance to do more than flip through the pages when I picked it up today (I'll read it after work).
My first impression of the art is very positive. The inks don't cover up your style. While I still (always) prefer you inking your own pencils, I think this was a good mesh.
Just read this one in the car after going to the comic book shop....
March 24 2004, 4:29 PM
And I loved it.
This was some story. Really great stuff. I've already forgotten the writer's name, but he really pegged Katar and his words with JB's art really meshed well.
I'd start with the SGT ROCK graphic novel that's out right now. He has another one out, called Yossel, and Fax From Sarajevo, as well. But the Sgt Rock one is my pick.
I wish to hell SOMEBODY would reprint Kubert's first dozen or so Tarzans from about 1972 ("First DC Issue," "Second DC Issue," etc.), because I love that work even better than TOR.
And that "Stan Lee creates Batman" he drew isn't bad either, if you can still find it!
You are right about the DC Tarzan's by Kubert. These were absolutely wonderful books which in turn showed his influence by Harold Foster. If you can find any of these get it. His Hawkman books are available in Archive format, I think.
Bought this today and I really enjoyed it. JB, you did a fine job as 'art robot' on this one. I like your take on Hawkman (much the same way I liked it when the character appeared in Wonder Woman).
This message has been edited by stephenrockwood on Mar 24, 2004 9:39 PM
I believe John told us before that he actually did ask Joe Kubert to ink this issue but he was unable to accept. That would have been great.
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If Joe Kubert had inked JB in this issue, it would have really pissed me off. It was bad enough seeing WAY too many color knockouts on JB's work, but seeing the pairing of JB and JK knocked out would have made me furious.
I don't think this is how it works now, but I think the penciler and inker on a comic should have some input about when and where color knockouts are allowed.
I don't think this is how it works now, but I think the penciler and inker on a comic should have some input about when and where color knockouts are allowed.
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My most used margin note these days does seem to be "Please do not knock out blacks in color!"
Unfortunately, with the computer coloring, the colorists and separators do not always see the margin notes. Another bold stride forward for technology!
I didn't necessarily have a problem with the colorist fading back the blacks but seeing the pencils, I would have preferred seeing the full blacks in there. I'm not sure what the colorist did exactly because I didn't really see Hawkman popping from the background in any event. Maybe he was a bit too subtle with his craft. This might have been nice in black and white or sepiatone as it was a fillin. The story put together quite an adventure for a fill-in which was impressive. It reminded me of an episode of "Highlander" and when you think about it, there are some similarities to the current Hawkman. I'd actually like to see John do the whole book. I'm not interested in the alledged writing talents of Jimmy Palmiotti and I miss Geoff and Rags already.-Rick
Knocking black line back with color has become one of those Tools We Have So We Must Use Them.
I recently had a wee debate over the tendency of the separators/colorists to always knock back the images on video screens. I pointed out that on my TV, at least, the blacks are actually darker than in the real world -- and I raised the question of what kind of shoddy monitors the likes of the JLA are using if the blacks are always greyed out. Do they buy them second hand from airports?
I can understand why they do it in certain situations. I have one or two monitor scenes in M&MP and did not screen 'em back. There's a great temptation to over-use the photoshop effects and I've been guilty of that in the past. It takes a conscious effort to simplify both in the comics and in storyboards. -Rick
This issue was another homerun for me! The art was fantastic and the flashback style of storytelling really kept me in suspense. Since I started renting Buffy the Vampire Slayer, I saw some definite similarities in the faces of some of the vampires with the makeup used on the tv show. The main villain was one of the spookiest characters JB has drawn for me personally in a long time.
Having seen the pencils I could wish for a little different approach in the inks. It seems too many inkers want to "clean up" JB's pencils, make the feathering nice and even, clean little tapering lines. Takes the edge off what are complex, gritty pencils.
AFAIC the colors are awful, too much modeling and way too many knockouts. The composition of a page depends so much on the placement of black. Lose the black and the composition becomes illegible. So JB doesn't get the kind of credit he deserves for composition these days. If Hellboy had been done for DC, after the staff colorists got hold of it nobody would remember it.
The only thing I might have wished for from JB's work was more of a visual clue about when we were in different time frames. Way back in Days of Future Past the future time frame had a different panel border, a constant reminder for the reader. A minor quibble, I suppose, since the captions covered it.
There was one point where I was briefly confused by the flashbacks - Hawkman has a confrontation with Gray 12 days ago where he learns his secret and there is a further flashback to the Middle Ages (with appropriate time frame panel borders), but when we come out of that one, we're back in the present. How did the scene end 12 days ago? Hawkman just let Gray go?
I don't read a lot of mainstream comics these days, but if this is what passes for good scripting, it's no wonder this stuff doesn't sell. I found the script confusing: it took me three pages to realize the captions were not just an odd second-person narrative device but actually a character talking/using telepathy/whatever -- that should've been clear from panel one, which it could have been if the dialogue hadn't been in square boxes usually reserved for internal narration or an omniscient narrator but in the wavey, tail-less balloons used for non-directed speech (and we never do get an explanation for how Gray speaks with Hawkman); what the hell is Nth metal?, is the vampire rule here that you become a vampire 12 hours after being bitten? Would it have been so hard to explain this stuff somewhere? Exposition is tough to write well, but you can't just leave it out.
I also thought the dialogue largely inelegant. The sentiment in Hawkman's final bit of dialogue was fine but it was expressed so clumsily.
This is why I love it that JB usually writes his own stuff!
At first I thought it was the continuation of a long storyline. But then I saw that all was explained.
Awesome artwork. That mace blow to the female vampire's face was brutal.
I like the panels where the fallen knight first sees the vultures come down to take the dead. Then we see those awful vampires swarming around the lone survivior like a pack of hyaenas.
My first (and maybe only) time buying a Hawkman comic in my 17 years of collecting!
Went to my local record store just before closing to pick up this week's comics. HAWKMAN was sold out! I mentioned it to the guy at the counter and he said, "Yeah! That one just flew off the shelves!"
I liked the art quite a bit, but I was lost in the story. I don't know much about Hawkman, and I was confused through most of it. It was still good though.
Nice stuff. I like Stucker's work over yours, JB. Keeps the pencils that we've seen pretty faithfully.
Two things I particularly liked - camera angles and faces. I think these are two areas in which your stuff have indisputably grown over the years. As much as I like the old stuff, the composition wasn't as dynamic. This is great.
Personally I thought the story was fine. The flashbacks made perfect sense to me, and captured the concept of what it must be like for an immortal.
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You are a god among insects. Never let anyone tell you different.
The only new comic I bought this week. Nice job, as always.
As a stand alone issue, it is perfect, and reminded me of comics the way they should be.
In particular, I liked the "light" coloring used for the flashbacks (nice contrast with the "dark" storyline)
Guys and gals, I was fortunate enough to see a black and white preview copy of Hawkman #26, and I'm sad to say that the printed colors didn't do justice to the artwork at all. And I generally enjoy Hi-Fi's work. Maybe if I hadn't seen the black and white artwork, I wouldn't have been as bothered by the color version as I was.
I agree with the criticisms of the story. But the artwork was kick-ass. Stucker did clean up a bit of JB's rougher-edged, more organic lines, but he did not arbitrarily change anything, which I appreciated and enjoyed. He gave the artwork a strong, modern line that reminded me of Scott Williams and Terry Austin IMO, and it served John's pencils very well. I'd love to see Stucker ink John again in the future.
Nice job, JB on Hawkman. And I enjoyed the story. The "water scene" was ruined by the coloring, though. It was hard to view. Coloring it more traditionally would have made it easier to understand.
...JLA 95 next week, right. Are you sure we haven't traveled back in time? I mean two books with Byrne in them coming out a week apart, welcome back to the '80's.
...JLA 95 next week, right. Are you sure we haven't traveled back in time? I mean two books with Byrne in them coming out a week apart, welcome back to the '80's.
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Not only that, one of them is scripted by Chris Claremont.
Just finished this last night -- nice self-contained story, and it did a good job of explaining Hawkman's current status (the reincarnation aspect) in such a manner that a new reader could immediately grasp what was going on. Nice ending, too.
Makes me long for the time when the idea of transferring monthly stories into a trade paperback was unheard-of.
Makes me long for the time when the idea of transferring monthly stories into a trade paperback was unheard-of.
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Nothing wrong with collecting trades of monthly books, as long as everyone remembers that's what they are -- collections of monthly books, with all the set-up and repetition one finds when one reads several issues of a series in a row.
As I typed this, JB, I found myself thinking of what a "trade paperback" used to be -- and what came to mind was the "Death of Captain Marvel" graphic novel. Imagine what THAT would have been like it if had originally started life as regular issues in a monthly title -- the pacing would have been artificially staged (to meet the monthly page requirements), and I would guess that the resultant story would have been bloated and confusing. The graphic novel written SPECIFICALLY for publication as a trade paperback can be a Good Thing.
Some storylines naturally lend themselves to being collected as a trade paperback -- things like the Death of Phoenix storyline worked GREAT as a serialized monthly storyline, and it translated well into trade paperback form.
Reading Hawkman #26 made me wonder if a nice, solid stand-alone story like that one might get overlooked as monthlies are transferred into TPBs -- I don't know if Hawkmank issues are being transferred into TPB or not, but the recent JSA/Hawkman "Black Reign" storyline would certainly be a good candidate to collected into TPB form, but will that include Hawkman #26? And if not, would #26 be included with the storyline from the next Hawkman story arc, or would it just be "dropped" from TPB "continuity"?
THAT's what bugs me the most about the current trend of "writing for the trades" -- it's the potential disappearance or the marginalization of the single-issue, stand-alone stories like Hawkman #26.
I think you'be hit on something here. There are not a lot of graphic novels being done any more, but there are a lot of trade paperback collections. And it seems that some writers -- encouraged by their editors and publishers -- have started treating the monthlies as serialized graphic novels so they will read as collections.
The recent spate of TPB collections has been beneficial to me, and it's actually succeeded (in part) in getting me back into a comic shop regularly. After a couple of years of avoiding comics altogether, I started reading them again via some Amazing Spider-Man collections from Amazon, which were swiftly followed by books one and two of Generations. I've now moved from this to actually going back to a comic shop every week to start buying the monthlies again. But John's spot on - there are a few too many monthly titles out there at the moment which are essentially being written as a 120 page graphic novel and then split into six monthly instalments.
This was my first Hawkman comic, and it was a great introduction to the character, JB. I love self contained comics that have that "Twilight Zone A-ha" liek thsi story. The flashbacks make for interesting reveals, especially since I don't know the character at all. I didn't see the Gray / Thomas reveal coming and thought the page itself in which you flashback to Thomas is an excellent use of panels.
I love the holy water scene - you do rain drenched really well. I think the high point of the art is when Hakman is about to confront Gray and you use four panels to "zoom in" on his eye. It's a great seething moment
JB, you've commented on the process for JLA in which you plotted, penciled and packed it off. What was the process on this issue?
I thoroughly enjoyed this issue, but I was surprised at the current state of the character. I always thought that Hawkman was an alien from the planet Thangar (at least he was the last time I read anything with the character in it, i.e. JB's Superman). Now he's a reincarnated Egyptian Prince. Interesting. When did that piece of continuity go out the window?
I thoroughly enjoyed this issue, but I was surprised at the current state of the character. I always thought that Hawkman was an alien from the planet Thangar (at least he was the last time I read anything with the character in it, i.e. JB's Superman). Now he's a reincarnated Egyptian Prince. Interesting. When did that piece of continuity go out the window?
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The last time the character was rebooted. But I didn't work on that reboot, so it was okay.
I have the JSA TPB of "Hawkman Returns" and I need to re-read it to figure out what they were going for in that. I stopped reading any Hawkman books after Hawkworld came out. The best I can figure out is there have been a series of reboots of Hawkman in the past ten years. A case of the eraser going to the character's history one too many times.
If I understand this current Hawkman, he is all the Hawkmen that went before, reincarnated in each of them. That stays true to the original (Golden Age) Hawkman being a reincarnated Egyptian prince. So, again assuming I understand the premise, this Hawkman keeps all the past, but puts it on a shelf to only use when convenient.
Finally found a copy of HAWKMAN #26 -- it was sold out of the first three stores I checked! -- and really enjoyed it. There was enough of a JB vibe to the whole project that I kept forgetting that this was one of his "art robot" jobs, rather than a "art and story by" jobs.
Here's hoping that we see more one-shot gigs like this in the future! There was a time in the '70s when JB was recruited by Marvel editors to bang out covers while he was in the office. How cool would it be to see him bang out self-contained stories in between story arcs?
I was pleasantly surprised to find this issue on the racks this week. Great job on the art, JB. I like the inks too. I fall into the camp of those who weren't entirely pleased with the recent results of Jerry Ordway's inks on your JLA pencils so it was nice to see JB faces that weren't reinterpretted.
As always, your layouts are amazing. In one sequence in particular you have Hawkman standing, and in the next three panels, not only does the camera move in for dramatic effect, it also moves around the figure and gives the whole sequence a real cinematic feel. Very cool.
The only objection I had was to the way the colour separators handled the flashbacks and a few panels where they washed out the blacks. A real gem otherwise.
I enjoyed it--and I agree with JB's previous point, that the color-hold outlines would have been much stronger as black (expecially that one tremendous panel of the chain-mailed knight kneeling on the battlefield). It looked ok on that Iron Man cover (in which they ran the background lines in blue), but here, well, I didn't go for it.
Oh, and people are publishing lots of graphic novels these days, just not Marvel. Considering the current editorial regime, that might not be a bad thing.
This message has been edited by MarkLerer on Mar 29, 2004 1:13 PM
I like your take on Hawkman (much the same way I liked it when the character appeared in Wonder Woman).
