I spoke to William Cheung in the early `80's,and yes,he said that Lee was not very good.But he last saw him as a skinny teen in the mid-50's.At that time,Cheung was fighting for the WC clan,and Lee was in awe of him.That's what he remembers. (GT)
Jesse posted on that forum and I'm not going through hundreds of posts looking for it. I was copying them all out months back and lost them. I will probably do it some time as they are great.
"My first WC instructor (WSL) told me that Jesse has a unmovable tan that one cannot pak it at all regardless how strong you are. How many people can do this? Other well-known WC instructors whom I will not mention here also have a good opinion of Jesse's WC ability though they may disagree with his training methods. It is hard to appreciate the greatness of the man until you meet him face to face and see what he offers first."
David Peterson: I know Jesse very well, was invited by him to give seminars in the WSL Method in Seattle, and have trained with he and his students. Jesse Glover is a formidable fighter whose techniques are both powerful and precise. Sure, his training methods are very different from what many of you might have experienced, and perhaps you may not agree with them, or with some of the techniques/concepts he employs, but the bottom line is that they work, and he produces students with excellent skills. What Jesse is saying about WC is entirely accurate when taken in the context of which it was written. On top of this, his quote from my late Sifu is absolutley accurate as I have heard Sifu make this remark on several occasions. WC is like the finest car, or the most delicate scientific instrument. It is perfect science in every respect, but how many of you would put a young inexperienced driver in that car or place the scientific instrument in the hands of a child and expect good results from your actions? There is much in the WC system that most of us will NEVER fully understand, and even more (in terms of techniques and/or concepts) that we will NEVER have either a need or an opportunity to apply. Most of us will NEVER live a life that requires us to put our skills on the line on a regular, even semi-regular basis....in fact, how many of you can honestly say that you have faced a life-and-death situation and survived it purely based on your WC skills? Lets get real about the whole WC experience. In reality, most of those pursuing the art have NOT been in such a situation, and most of those involved have NOT really experienced what I would refer to as "reality-type" training, whereby on a regular basis, you pit yourself and your students against full-on, aggressive and UNREHEARSED attacks from practitioners of other systems, with the intention to hurt them if they get it wrong. Instead, from what I have observed (and Jesse is speaking of the same reality), what is normally practised in the majority of WC schools are pre-arranged drills with WC techniques being pitted against WC techniques, usually without the "venom" and the psychological pressure (to elicit the necessary "adrenaline dump" that real combat creates), thus giving the students a very false sense of security as to how effective their "skills" will be in the actual "Pavement Arena." The safety net that the four walls of the training area offer is the main culprit for the escalation of ineffective WC that is being taught around the world today. People are trapped in their theories and concepts, bound up by this sequence and that, and have failed to look beyond the "fixed ideas" to discover how WC is meant to offer a guide to self-discovery whereby one "...becomes the MASTER of Wing Chun, and NOT its SLAVE"....look at how Wong Shun Leung reached his level of expertise and understanding, a level that virtually all on this forum have expressed a respect and admiration for. He tested himself UNDER PRESSURE in the real world, not once or twice but DOZENS of times. He didn't spend endless hours in Chi Sau practise, developing endless responses to artificially created and over-analyzed sequences, ...he took the concepts, tested them, refined them down to the most simple alternatives and USED his WC as an effective TOOL to get a job done. When Jesse says that Chi Sau doesn't work in a fight, he's RIGHT, because the way in which most WC practitioners apply it means that it can't be effective. You don't fight your opponent with Chi Sau, ...you USE the skills, reflexes and flexibilty that Chi Sau is meant to develop in order to HIT the other guy, not to "stick" with him or "chase" his hands. Chi Sau, like all the drills, techniques, concepts and forms in WC are a means to an end, NOT the end itself. If Jesse's article makes you depressed, then get off your butt and start training for reality. If you are sitting there complacently, expecting that no matter what happens, "It's okay, my Wing Chun will save the day", then get a grip on reality. Don't take me out of context either, ...I'm not advocating that we throw the baby out with the bath water....you won't find a more loyal devotee of WC than me. The WC system IS a great system of personal combat, but there are lots of other great systems of personal combat out there and chances are that you'll end up fighting them, not one of your own. Don't get blinded by the theory and the forms, UNDERSTAND the message that they are giving you and learn to be flexible and adaptable in applying this knowledge. The reality is that much of what is in the system IS NOT APPLIED EXACTLY AS IT IS TRAINED, any more so than reading a book about swimming can teach you how to swim....you have to jump in the pol and get wet, APPLY the theories to the reality, not just expect them to work like it says in the book. This was the message of my Sifu, this is what Jesse is trying to say....stop attacking the messenger and read the message. If I've offended anyone, no offence was intended and I apologise, but if you have understood what I'm trying to convey, then all the power to you and just watch your WC improve in all the best possible ways. Best Wishes to All.