Re: Question about Robert Clouse's Comment about Lee and Ali...November 12 2017 at 1:35 PM
|NDoraku (Login NDoraku)|
Response to Re: Question about Robert Clouse's Comment about Lee and Ali...
1) Sorry for my bad english it´s not my mother language. :-D
2) Did Clouse made this story up? Maybe yes, maybe no, just Bolo Yeung could give us an answer.
A main problem is the "translation", and i am very curious that even some people which have English as mother language seems to be confused about the term "fight".
Listen to old interviews from legendary Boxing people like Angelo Dundee or even today Bernhard Hopkins. They only use the term "fighter" or "professional fighter" for a professional Boxer.
Dundee called Judo masters like Gene LeBell "Judo PLAYERS" and not "fighters", same with most people in the western hemisphere.
Hopkins just recently before the Mayweather-McGregor Boxing fight said something like: "McGregor is not a professional fighter".
Back in the time of Lee guys who practiced martial art and/or combat sport, don t matter if they competet in combat sports or not, were never called in the USA as "fighters", just as "Judo players", "Kickboxers", "Wrestlers", "Karate people" etc., only professional Boxers were called "Fighters".
I guess ALL OF YOU remember when Karate Joe Lewis said many times that Lee was "not a fighter".
I remember in 2003 or 2004 he was contacted by a Bruce Lee Forum from India, and many of the writers asked him how and why he could say Lee was not a fighter.
I can´t remember the whole dialoge, but the outcome was like this:
- Lewis stated Lee was not a fighter because he has no fight record.
- one guy from India wrote something like "so you say Lee could not defend himself in the street?"
- Lewis answered he never said that, he just said Lee was not a fighter, he never said Lee was not a very cabable street fighter.
And there we have the problem in this discussion. When someone especially in the USA talks about a FIGHT (especially 30-50 years ago), they mean a Boxing fight or at least some kind of competition sport fight.
If you want to talk no rule stuff you MUST say STREET FIGHT, not just FIGHT.
If Clouses story is true and Lee and it was like:
"Could u beat Ali in a fight"
Lee: "Look at my hands they are so small he would kill me",
it seems Lee was talking about a Boxing fight and not a street fight, because hands are just one part of weapons in a street fight.
3) Here a list of people wh actually saw Bruce Lee in a street fight and people who don´t, i mean street fight, not sport fight or sparring: People who saw:
- Wong Shun Leung
- William Cheung
- Leo Fong
- Hawkins Cheung
- Jesse Glover
- James DeMile
- Ronald Kealoha
- George Santos
- Doug Palmer
- Ed Hart
- Skipp Ellworth
- Bolo Yeung
- Bob Wall
- Fred Weintraub
- Paul Heller
- James "Yimm" Lee
- Dan Inosanto
- Tony Liu
- Herb Jackson
Never saw Bruce Lee in a street fight (some of them just in sparrings, demonstrations or work outs):
- Ted Wong
- Chuck Norris
- Joe Lewis
- Mike Stone
- Gene LeBell
- Ed Parker
- Jim Kelly
- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
- James Cobrun
- Steve Muhammad Sanders
- Vic Moore
- George Lazenby
It s very possible i forgot people on both lists, but those are the ones i can name for sure if they see him or not.
So it s always amusing especially if someone like Ronda Rousey speaks about Lee´s fightings skills in street fights when she or even her "uncle" Judo Gene LeBell never saw him in a street fight (how he moved, what he did, which techniques he used, etc.)
And from the American Karate Legends (Lewis, Norris, Stone, Kelly, Moore, Wall, Sanders etc.) ist was only ONE OF THEM who saw Lee actually beat someone up in a street fight, and that s Bob Wall.
So i would always be careful when ppl like Chuck, Joe, LeBell, Rousey etc. talk about how good or bad street fighter Lee was.
I hope you can understand my writing don t take to much notice from Grammar etc. :-D
Re: Question about Robert Clouse's Comment about Lee and Ali... - Chris Richards on Nov 13, 2017, 1:54 AM
Thanks NDoraku - Herolung on Nov 13, 2017, 8:18 AM