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German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 22 2008 at 4:31 PM

  (Login GER_Mark)
Panzer Brigade(Germany)

A US diplomat has denounced the controversial Baltic natural gas pipeline as “a special arrangement between Germany and Russia.” His remarks have ruffled feathers in Berlin and highlighted growing US-German tensions over relations with Russia.



Michael Wood, 61, is an athletic man. He has an impressively low golf handicap of 12. The former corporate executive has often gone mountain biking with US President George W. Bush, a connection that may have helped him acquire his current position. Wood has been the US ambassador to Sweden for the past two years.

He is not, however, very well versed in the art of diplomacy. At the end of the week before last, the Swedish daily newspaper Svenska Dagbladet published an op-ed article by the ambassador that set down some unmistakable ground rules. According to Wood, when the Swedish government evaluates the proposed Baltic natural gas pipeline project over the coming months, it should examine more than just environmental aspects. He wrote that the pipeline represents “a special arrangement between Germany and Russia” that “bypasses the Baltic States and Poland,” which are “potential customers.” Wood calls for the EU to speak “with a single voice to counteract the power of Russia’s energy weapon.”

The article alarmed the German government. Rüdiger von Fritsch, head of economic affairs at the German Foreign Ministry, promptly called up the American embassy in Berlin and demanded an explanation. Von Fritsch said the German government was “annoyed” by this highly “unusual” approach.

On the other end of the line, Deputy Chief of Mission John Koenig said that he was surprised by the ambassador’s statements. He underscored that the US position remains unchanged: Washington will issue no comment on the private pipeline deal. Koenig suggested that the article may have been insufficiently screened in Washington -- a PR mishap, so to speak.

The two experienced diplomats agreed to avoid a “public scuffle.” However, von Fritsch made one condition: Nothing like the Wood article must be allowed to happen again.

Nevertheless, the incident has created an air of suspicion. “The Americans are no longer pursuing their opposition to the pipeline under the table, but publicly,” complained Eggert Voscherau, who represents German chemical giant BASF on the advisory board of the pipeline operator Nord Stream. Martin Schulz, the leader of the Social Democrat parliamentary group in the European Parliament, even sees the Wood article as a “helpful” indicator of “what the Americans aim to do, namely destabilize Europe.”

By contrast, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and his team are afraid that the American slip-up has let the cat out of the bag on how the US actually views the issue. Sources inside the German Foreign Ministry say that for months US diplomats have been working behind the scenes to undermine the proposed 1,200-kilometer (745-mile) underwater pipeline between the Russian port of Vyborg and Greifswald, Germany. They say that the Americans fear the pipeline will increase Western Europe’s dependency on Russian gas and make it more vulnerable to blackmail.



The dispute over the undersea pipeline threatens to divide the US and Europe, just as the Georgian crisis has done. Last Thursday, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice spoke about US relations to Russia at an event hosted by the German Marshall Fund in the lavish ballroom of Washington’s Renaissance Mayflower Hotel. At times her address sounded like a return to the days of the Cold War. She said that Russia’s actions follow a worsening pattern of behavior. Rice referred to “Russia’s intimidation of its sovereign neighbors” and its “arms sales to states and groups that threaten international security.” In addition she criticized “its use of oil and gas as a political weapon.”

During the luncheon held after the speech, Utah Republican Senator Bob Bennett echoed Rice’s sentiments. “Russia is becoming an oil or a gas state,” said the economics expert. Bennett maintains that Germany is so dependent on Russian gas that this gives Moscow more political elbow room, for example, in Georgia. He says that Europeans have to do something about this “with pipelines that come from other countries to Europe.”

When it comes to Russia, politicians in Washington generally view Germany with suspicion. They accuse the Germans of being so dependent on Russian gas that they don’t dare speak their mind to the Russian strongman, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin. But the Baltic States, Poland and the Scandinavians are also uneasy about the pipeline. They are afraid that Moscow and Berlin have made a special deal. However, such objections have their limits. Countries like France, the United Kingdom and the Netherlands would also be supplied by the pipeline.

In Germany, where members of Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats (CDU) are normally fairly critical of Russia, the conservatives see little reason for sharing the skepticism of the Americans this time around. “The Baltic Sea pipeline would not lead to a one-sided dependency on Russia, which would in fact be dangerous,” says CDU foreign policy spokesman Eckart von Klaeden. “After all, the enormous Russian investments have to be paid off.”

Chancellor Merkel, who had already warned of the dependency on Russian gas before taking office, now supports the project without reservations. She recently traveled to Sweden, just as Foreign Minister Steinmeier has done, to clarify the German position on the pipeline. She called it a “European strategic project.” The chancellor said that Sweden has a right to implement environmental licensing procedures, but nothing more.

That is exactly what the Swedes will do. “This will be the most stringent environmental assessment,” says a Berlin diplomat, “that a pipeline has ever been subjected to.”

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,579677,00.html


 
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Rzecz
(Login Rzeczpospolita)
Moderators

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 22 2008, 4:54 PM 

One step further for Germany to being totally dependant on Russian Energy.

Siege of Tobruk - One German POW said: "I cannot understand you Australians. In Poland, France, and Belgium, once the tanks got through the soldiers took it for granted that they were beaten. But you are like demons. The tanks break through and your infantry still keep fighting." Rommel wrote of seeing "a batch of some fifty or sixty Australian prisoners ... marched off close behind us—immensely big and powerful men, who without question represented an elite formation of the British Empire, a fact that was also evident in battle."


 
 

(Login schlawa)
Panzer Brigade(Germany)

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 22 2008, 10:57 PM 

It is to a good share the work of the Potatoe-Twins in Warsaw that the pipeline doesnt run through Poland.


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A German Soldier doesnt die, he goes to hell and regroups !



    
This message has been edited by schlawa on Sep 22, 2008 11:55 PM
This message has been edited by schlawa on Sep 22, 2008 11:47 PM


 
 

Anonymous
(Login filin)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 23 2008, 12:21 AM 

Fantastic, Russia will never abuse the pipeline, after all Germany is one of the strongest partners we have in EU. Putin and Schroeder had a talk in Sochi and all has been worked out, more projects will follow.

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Rzecz
(Login Rzeczpospolita)
Moderators

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 23 2008, 3:56 PM 

It is to a good share the work of the Potatoe-Twins in Warsaw that the pipeline doesnt run through Poland.

They have been nationalistic and unrealistic, but at least they realised that being a total bitch to Russian energy isn't the way to go. Russia will abuse the pipeline if they need too, but they won't have to, Germany has little political backbone any more.

Poland may be barking and you might think as a German 'what peasant mentality, they should quieten down', but I wonder what happens when Germany is held for ransom by Russia then what change of opinion you will have.

Things haven't changed. Only attitudes have.

Siege of Tobruk - One German POW said: "I cannot understand you Australians. In Poland, France, and Belgium, once the tanks got through the soldiers took it for granted that they were beaten. But you are like demons. The tanks break through and your infantry still keep fighting." Rommel wrote of seeing "a batch of some fifty or sixty Australian prisoners ... marched off close behind us—immensely big and powerful men, who without question represented an elite formation of the British Empire, a fact that was also evident in battle."


 
 

(Login notanonymous)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 23 2008, 5:24 PM 

I think Poland is making a mistake in some areas. I can perfectly understand its opposition to the pipeline, that is plain out logical. On the other hand, Poland is acting the fool by allowing the US to install a clearly anti-Russian missile defense system on its soil. What exactly Poland gains by having the system on its soild is unclear to me. On the other hand if s.hit ever does hit the fan Poland is gonna be a country hosting missiles designed to shoot dowm Russia's nuclear detterent. The first few hundred nuclear warheads to fly would go right at Poland. Poland would turn to glass, and for what.

F.uck an eye for an eye. You take my eye, and I will kill you, and all those you care about. That is our policy.

 
 

(Login schlawa)
Panzer Brigade(Germany)

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 23 2008, 5:30 PM 

Do you understand that Germany - Russia have a trade partnership that is growing heavy ? Russia gets a huge share % of its imports out of Germany. If you take into account that all EU members have already signed an "energy sharing treaty", you would know that Poland will get German Oil if they are cut off for political reasons and vice versa.

Finally, can you tell where the Oil shall come from if not from Russia ?



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A German Soldier doesnt die, he goes to hell and regroups !


 
 


(Login MikePapa1)
Administrator

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 23 2008, 7:01 PM 

Fantastic, Russia will never abuse the pipeline

An interesting statement. When did you become the Foreign Minister?




Provost

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States 1924-1929

 
 

Anonymous
(Login filin)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 23 2008, 7:53 PM 

How many times has Russia "abused" the energy routes, even in USSR days? Ukraine bitched that it was political but everyone knew they didnt have the money to pay for the bills due to corruption, Gazprom shut off oil to Belarus for the same reason.

In the end Germany is one of the strongest if not the strongest partners we have in Western Europe, them and the Dutch. Together they make up for well over $100 billion in trade, and since Kremlin enjoys hard cash the pipeline will never be abused. Even te brits are now trying to suck off it, yet they constantly bitch about Putin. In 10 years this trade will double and perhaps even triple.

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Anonymous
(Login Magnus4)
Vikings

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 23 2008, 7:58 PM 


Perhaps the russians will place listening devices along the pipeline so that they can identify swedish subs in the baltic passing near

Perhaps the service of the pipeline will be a mix of civilian and military imposing itself in the western Baltic ?



The Federal Reserve Scam!

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(Login MikePapa1)
Administrator

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 23 2008, 9:17 PM 

Has never and will never are two different things, Your Excellency.




Provost

Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States 1924-1929

 
 
Milkman
(Login American_Patriot)
Eagle Squadron(US)

Baltic? What's that?

September 23 2008, 9:28 PM 

Is that the name of an exclusive golf course on the Canadian side of Lake Superior?

Gee. I'm concerned too. We can't have a pipeline going through a golf course...think of what it would do to the grass?

Milkman

 
 
Reaver180
(Login Reaver180)
Panzer Brigade(Germany)

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 23 2008, 10:40 PM 

The thing is, Germany and Russia have very close relations. They are natural allies. While the use of power politics by Russia is annoying to the West as a whole, the fact remains that our two countries complement each other perfectly. You don't hear much criticism of Russia from Berlin, because while the plight of some Georgians may be unfortunate, it is not something we have any big influence over. Russia will do as she pleases with or without our consent in that region. Is it self interest? You bet it is, but quite frankly our experience with the Russians as business partners is a good one, so we see no reason to cancel such a promising project over the worries of others, even NATO allies.

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Milkman
(Login American_Patriot)
Eagle Squadron(US)

That's good

September 24 2008, 12:49 AM 

I'm so relieved that the Russians and Germans so love each other. I'll sleep a lot better knowing that they're such bossom buddies.

The history of love between such close and inseparable countries is an example to us all.


Milkman

 
 

Rzecz
(Login Rzeczpospolita)
Moderators

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 24 2008, 8:09 AM 

Do you understand that Germany - Russia have a trade partnership that is growing heavy ? Russia gets a huge share % of its imports out of Germany. If you take into account that all EU members have already signed an "energy sharing treaty", you would know that Poland will get German Oil if they are cut off for political reasons and vice versa.

Alas there is a problem for Germany. Will Germany give oil to Poland if Poland and Russia have tiffs over something (likely for whatever reason) or will it try and keep its friendly ties? Will Russia give oil to Germany just so it can hand it over to Poland?
I'm not so much concerned about Poland, it is Germany that is letting itself become totally dependant.

Finally, can you tell where the Oil shall come from if not from Russia ?

There was Georgia and the Caucasus pipelines. But that is all but lost now, Russia has all but taken complete control of any oil by bypassing from the Central Asian Republics through the Caucasus into the Ukraine. Germans also shut down their nuclear reactors... I would dare say they are allowing themselves to be more oil dependant.

How many times has Russia "abused" the energy routes, even in USSR days?

Do I really need to show energy abuse by the Soviets to Poland or do you just want to back off right now?

Ukraine bitched that it was political but everyone knew they didnt have the money to pay for the bills due to corruption, Gazprom shut off oil to Belarus for the same reason.

Everyone being Russia?

In the end Germany is one of the strongest if not the strongest partners we have in Western Europe, them and the Dutch. Together they make up for well over $100 billion in trade, and since Kremlin enjoys hard cash the pipeline will never be abused. Even te brits are now trying to suck off it, yet they constantly bitch about Putin. In 10 years this trade will double and perhaps even triple.

I hope so for Germany's sake, not for Russia's.

They are natural allies.

Big statement, since it faltered so heavily in the past and never really ever existed.

so we see no reason to cancel such a promising project over the worries of others, even NATO allies.

So you are basically saying Germany should sell out its NATO allies if business with Russia is threatened? Truly, Germany has no backbone Both for (historic and logical reasons).

Siege of Tobruk - One German POW said: "I cannot understand you Australians. In Poland, France, and Belgium, once the tanks got through the soldiers took it for granted that they were beaten. But you are like demons. The tanks break through and your infantry still keep fighting." Rommel wrote of seeing "a batch of some fifty or sixty Australian prisoners ... marched off close behind us—immensely big and powerful men, who without question represented an elite formation of the British Empire, a fact that was also evident in battle."


 
 

Rzecz
(Login Rzeczpospolita)
Moderators

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 24 2008, 8:13 AM 

I think Poland is making a mistake in some areas. I can perfectly understand its opposition to the pipeline, that is plain out logical. On the other hand, Poland is acting the fool by allowing the US to install a clearly anti-Russian missile defense system on its soil. What exactly Poland gains by having the system on its soild is unclear to me. On the other hand if s.hit ever does hit the fan Poland is gonna be a country hosting missiles designed to shoot dowm Russia's nuclear detterent. The first few hundred nuclear warheads to fly would go right at Poland. Poland would turn to glass, and for what.

Actually if the Missiles are designed to destroy nukes (which really they are not), then Ukraine will be one that gets the unlucky end of the stick... But either way if it escalates to that point, we are all dead anyway.

Why they do it is to show commitment to the US and NATO, which is simply a reactionary policy to the old memories of the Soviet days. Personalyl I would love for Poland and Russia to be close allies, we are more natural allies to Russia then any Frenchmen or German, but sadly it is history that plays a big part in the Polish political system.

Siege of Tobruk - One German POW said: "I cannot understand you Australians. In Poland, France, and Belgium, once the tanks got through the soldiers took it for granted that they were beaten. But you are like demons. The tanks break through and your infantry still keep fighting." Rommel wrote of seeing "a batch of some fifty or sixty Australian prisoners ... marched off close behind us—immensely big and powerful men, who without question represented an elite formation of the British Empire, a fact that was also evident in battle."


 
 
Reaver180
(Login Reaver180)
Panzer Brigade(Germany)

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 24 2008, 5:07 PM 

The German government has a duty to Germany and its people first, even before those of NATO allies. So yes, if there were any situation where our needs would be in direct opposition to those of Poland or any other NATO member, then I would expect our government to care for us first. I would expect the other nations to act in the same manner. Simple self preservation. But honestly, the current situation is far less dramatic than it is made out to be.

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Anonymous
(Login Areianos)
Hellenic Hoplites

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 25 2008, 1:40 AM 

A great relationship from Greece's point of view.

Now to bring Russia into the European Union or Russia to sell their energy in Euros so the Euro can be worth 5 x of the USD

 
 

Rzecz
(Login Rzeczpospolita)
Moderators

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 25 2008, 5:08 PM 

So yes, if there were any situation where our needs would be in direct opposition to those of Poland or any other NATO member, then I would expect our government to care for us first.

You do realise the NATO agreement is built on the fact that it isn't about self preservation right? That if a country like Greece gets attacked then Germany is obliged to help, not decide whether it is worth it to them or not... I hope so, would to think Germans have changed so dramatically.

Siege of Tobruk - One German POW said: "I cannot understand you Australians. In Poland, France, and Belgium, once the tanks got through the soldiers took it for granted that they were beaten. But you are like demons. The tanks break through and your infantry still keep fighting." Rommel wrote of seeing "a batch of some fifty or sixty Australian prisoners ... marched off close behind us—immensely big and powerful men, who without question represented an elite formation of the British Empire, a fact that was also evident in battle."


 
 
Anonymous
(Login politicalgain)
RedCoats(UK)

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 25 2008, 7:16 PM 

Europe, including the UK should be less hostile towards Russia. We have a trading partner we desperately need on our door step. We could be very good for each other, I trust Putin more than those Neo-crazies over in Washington.

 
 

Anonymous
(Login filin)
Elite WAFF Vet Club

Re: German-US Tensions Grow Over Baltic Pipeline

September 26 2008, 12:49 AM 

Too bad UK government just wants kneel before Bush.

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