Continued from here....

http://www.network54.com/Forum/257194/thread/1219185018/last-1227114846/India+is+closing+gap+with+China

Like I said, closing the gap my butt......

-------------------------------------------------

say no to opium .........
lololololololol...peecolored lololololololo.....!!!!!!!!!!!!

OM SWEET OM

The only thing India is closing Gap with China is population.

If deepwilderness thinks that chinese people are pee colored, what does he think of his fellow brown colored indians....lol..

\\So Indian govt isn't doing a good job then?? BTW China isn't the country who has worst malnutrition than Africa! \\


Indian govt can improve its governance.But even its current governance is not pathetic as you are trying to imply.BTW, chinese infant mortality rates are worse than albania and its human rights record is worse than Africa.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\\Dude you said Hukou system = Caste system . Now is your chance to prove it! So stop talking rubbish and GIVE ME PROOF that the Hukou system is a proper bona fide Caste system?? \\

If you cant understand even the basic things i wrote, then thats not my problem, isnt ? Hakou has all the basic characteristics of being a chinese negative caste system(as understood by you).In fact its even worse than Indian caste system.Indian caste system was actually a humane system which got corrupted.Hakou was born as an corrupted one and there is very little chance of reforms in it short of its complete abolition which the chinese are refusing to do.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Again stop talking rubbish .You made the claim that the Yi people are still practising caste currently so the onus is on you to provide the EVIDENCE!\\

You need to stop acting like a jerk.There is no eveidence what so ever that the yi have 'stopped' practising caste system.I havent read anywhere that they stopped this practise.So its a fair assumption that they are still continuing this practise.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Dude the majority of the Indian population reside in rural areas where the Caste system DOMINATE THEIR LIVES as this article from a academic source states\\


Dude, using the same logic, majority of chinese population also reside in villages and the effects of Hakou are most prominently fealt by these rural people for whom the the effects of Hakou are a regular phenomenon.Which basically means that Hakou is practised by all chinese irrespective of rural or urban.But its evil effects are more pronounced in rural areas as it is they who most often tend to migrate to other areas. Also your so called 'acedemic post' on caste is essentially a western inspired christian written news post which will have zero credibility with respect to caste.As i stated, outsiders has zero understanding of what caste means and their 'acedemic posts' have no value when debating caste.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\If approx 75 percent of the Indian population living in rural India practise caste to the extent that it dominate their lives, then it clearly shows there is a massive majority support for it right? because the Caste system is SOCIETY BASED right??
Now its your turn, SHOW ME PROOF THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE RURAL CHINESE SUPPORT THE HUKOU SYSTEM?? \\


As i said in my previous post, majority of chinese live in rural areas and majority of them are effected by Hakou by the very fact that they were born into ruarl areas.It is part of parcel of their lives.Caste is soceity based but its not as rigid as Hakou is ! Hakou is institutional racism, Caste is not. More importantly negative aspects of caste in India are in decline, but Hakou is not as this acedemic article states !

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_6992/is_/ai_n28392530

Organizing through Division and Exclusion: China's Hukou System

from the article :

'Nevertheless, by putting China's hukou system in a worldwide perspective, we have to remember one important difference: while the caste system in India is in decline and therefore becoming less enforceable in many places, and "Soviet and Russian propiska-based control of internal migration has become both illegitimate and ineffective, with tremendous revelation about politics and governance in Russia in general" (p. 151), by contrast, hukou-based institutional division and exclusion is still alive and works well in the PRC. Thus, China's hukou system represents the most important institutionalized exclusion and discrimination in today's world.'


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\It shows if push comes to shove only one government has the true ability to get rid of its discriminatory system and it also shows the other Indian system is immune and resistant to political persuasion and pressure. \\

Wrong.It only shows that only one govt (Indian) has the will to abolish the negative aspects of caste while the other govt (chinese) encourages the institutional exclusion prevelant in Hakou system !

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Enough BS .Show me proof that the CASTE SYSTEM IS A LABOUR UNION?? LOL (credible sources, not indian) \\


As i said majority of non-Indian and western inspired sources has zero credibility with respect to caste and as such they should be the last ones that should be quoted.Since you are ignorant enough to understand the complexities of caste, not suprisingly it appears as BS to you !

Here is one fo the non -Indian sources which argues caste as form of contract enforcement which essentially means labour union..

http://www-econ.stanford.edu/academics/Greif_228_2007/Freitas,%20Kripa.%202006.%20The%20Indian%20Caste%20System.pdf

from thew website ;

'It argues that the caste system
provided a tool for contract enforcement and facilitated trade in services, giving an economic reason
for its persistence. A caste is modeled as an information-sharing institution, which enforces collective
action. Trade is modeled as a version of the one-sided prisoners dilemma game, where the consumer
has an opportunity to default. Consumers who default on a member of a caste are punished by denying
them services produced in the caste. Various features of the caste system like occupational specialization
by caste, a purity scale, and a hierarchy of castes are shown to be equilibrium outcomes that improve
the efficiency of contract enforcement.'


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Firstly the guild system isn't comparable to Caste! LOL Secondly regarding the beekjeongs in Korea, according to this Wikipedia article it has virtually been eradicated from Korean society \\


Firstly the guild system is nothing but caste system . you are just ignorant not to know that ! LOL

Secondly the wiki article has no source to back its claim that the discrimination against beeljeongs in korea is eradicated.Just because its 'frowned upon' by the educated classes does not means that its eradicated .


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Thirdly yes, I agree that the discrimination against Burakumins in Japan has similarities with the Caste system in India, however the difference is its on a much smaller scale eg. Theres approx over one million burakumins in Japan (approx one percent of the population) while theres approx 165 million Dalits in India (approx 16 percent of the population). \\


Ok. So i think firstly you agree that you were wrong when you essentially said that there is no caste system among democracies.Secondly the numbers are misleading.When people say there are x number of harijans, that basically does not mean that all those harijans are discriminated by default.For example, India's former president is a harijan.But just because there is a harijan tag to him does not mean that people 'discriminate' their president.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Nope, everything wasn't fine and dandy, like many countries China also had many historic failings.So using your logic I can give you a similar analogy, Aren't murders human?? Don't murders come from human society?? SO DOES ALL HUMANS = MURDERS?? \\


Exactly. using the same logic, just because there are bad apples in caste , does not mean that the institution itself is bad.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


\\Ok, tell me when did the Caste system became discriminatory then??\\


During the consolidation of british colonialism during 18th century.It was the british who codified caste and manipulated it to further divide the Indian soceity.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


\\Dude, but India isn't a muslim or a communist country?? its a democracy! and in most democracies I can think of, the people have FREEDOM OF CHOICE regarding religion!! so my question to you again is: If India is a democracy and Indians are suppose to enjoy freedom then WHY DO INDIANS CHOOSE TO CONTINUE TO PRACTISE CASTE IN ITS PRESENT FORM?? \\


Dude, you are foolishly asking the same questions again and again.Indians continue to practise caste system since there is nothing inherently wrong with the system itself.Its the mis use of the system which is the problem.Your foolish question is like asking why do Indians continue to travel in the buses inspite of accidents ! LOL


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Yes in theory! but is that the case in practise? Got proof to show that Dalits don't have to comply to the Caste system in rural India?? (No Indian sources please) \\

The very fact that you continue to use the wrong word 'dalit' instead of the original 'Harijan' word (inspite of me cautionaing you that it is not the correct word) proves how western and western inspired words create new meanings and foster them on people who in turn will start using those western inspired words.Thats precisely the reason i said that if you want to understand caste, then the one thing you should not do is to rely on western or western inspired sources. Caste system by defination is not forced upon.The problem comes from the way you are looking at the caste system.There is nothing called forced caste system.If a person from a untouchable caste in rural India wants to become president, there is nothing to stop him from becoming one .India already has its share of Harijan presidents and chief ministers from rural India.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\The fact that you support a discriminatory system while I don't, do you not think that has some signifcance?? LOL \\


The fact that i am making an ignorant understand the real caste system has some significance ! LOL


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Did Lenin practised the same "pure" concept of Communism preached by Marx?? the same one which Mao adopted from Lenin? At the end of the day it doesn't matter if Mao was responsible for the corruption of Communism in China, since the ordinary Chinese peasants only espoused communism in an extreme period of our history, and the CCP has ruled China ever since with a iron fist and refuses to let the Chinese populace the freedom to choose another system.\\

Lenin was an angel compared to the maniac which mao was LOL. Who is stopping the chinese people from choosing freedom. The ccp ? But the ccp are not outsiders isnt ? They come from chinese soceity itslef.So basically its the chinese elites which are preventing the chinese masses from chosing freedom.Who is stopping the chinese masses from over throwing their elites ! To blame everything on ccp and sitting quite is not going to do any good to chinese masses. isnt ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


\\However this isn't the case with India right? I mean Indians never cease to tell us that they are a DEMOCRACY and they have FREEDOM, so why do Indians continue to choose to practise a cruel and discriminatory form of caste today?? \\


As i said in my previous posts, if caste system itself is not cruel and discriminatory and is working fine for Indian soceity, why should Indians remove it.Sure, there is discrimination 'based' on caste .But thats not same as caste system itself being discriminatory.Just like there is descrimination based on religion but religion itself is not descrimination.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Dude I've already agreed with you previously that there were crimes committed in the name of religion! and religions like Christianty and Islam were propagated by the sword and bloodshed! theres no hiding that fact! Now to your question, does that mean these religions have a historic "connection" with violence and bloodshed?? YES ABSOLUTELY! \\


Ok since you have agreed to my point, will you also answer the question since christianity and islam has connection to voilence and blood shed, is christianity and islam bad and hence needs to be abolished ?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\And if you can provide proof that Confucianism owes its very survival to slavery (like hinduism to Caste) I'll be happy to admit that there is a connection or bond! \\


Confucianism does not have to owes its survival to slavery to prove that there is a connection between the two.The chinese soceity which is essentially a confucian soceity practises slavery even now which proves that slavery has some kind of 'bond' with confucianism.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Now are you willing to admit that there is a bond between Hinduism and Caste?? \\


If there is no 'bond' between Hinduism and caste, there is no reson to admit anything. Just because islam and christianity has bond with voilence does not mean that Hinduism has bond with caste. Both christianity and Islam heavily relied on voilence to spread their religion which means they intentionally used voilence to their purpose.But Hinduism' case is different.Hinduism took caste only when it was in the situation of extermination.If in a helpless situation, you fire at a person in self defence, will you say there is a bond between that person and criminal activities ? LOL


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\You said "caste is only one factor in Hinduism's survival" So you admit there is a connection then? thankyou for agreeing lol \\


You have no clue about what i am saying ! LOL


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Yes, Caste system is society based (which I have already repeatedly said) and Hinduism has a connection with Caste.\\


If its soceity based, then every religion in that soceity including islam and christianity (and not just Hinduism) will have connection to caste which is not a bad thing btw.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


\\Dude whats needed in India is a seismic shift in social attitude and behaviour not just a few cases of tolerance. I think this article explains it:\\



Your 'article' is BS. Its written by an western inspired christian and as such has zero credibility with respect to caste !


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


\\LOL thats because none of your "evidence" is convincing! Now stop your nonsense and substantiate your claim that the Caste system is a labour union or political party!! \\


I already proved it.But you are just foolish enough not to realise that ! LOL



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Dude, a rusted rifle is a mechanical device not an ideology or philosophy!! LOL think before you speak (or type) LOL \\


So you mean to say that a 'bond' will be there only between man and ideology but not between a man and a object ? Its time for you to stop sounding like a jerk ! LOL



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Give it time dude lol, give it time! \\


Ok. i will.But it also proves that you are BS ing all this time !


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


\\Yes but the Hukou is simply legislation, unlike Caste which has massive grass root support at the social level.\\


But Hakou is more discriminatory and more wide spread than caste system can ever can be !


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


\\Caste system is acceptable in India?? lol, Its not bad in reality?? lol Dude heres what your Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said about caste.So whose right? you or your Indian PM?? LOL \\


What does that prove ? If Hu Jiantao will say something positive on Hakou, then does that make Hakou system good ? Then what makes you think that caste is negative just because Manmohan singh said so. LOL

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


\\Of course I was speaking hypothetically regarding the rapes. Dude the truth is when you try to link two separate issues together in a report based on your personal perception that is called SPECULATION NOT FACT!\\


Does not matter as long as the speculation is correct.You still did not answer my question.Why would a western news report will report or even mention irrelevant things like rapes and poverty when writing an essentially scientific report on Indian space programme ?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Take it easy dude, dont get flustered, all that spicy curry can give you heartburn! LOL \\


The fact you are uttering such nonsense basically means you have nothing else to say ! LOL


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Yeah, just the West criticises India for it's Caste system and appalling poverty and child mortality rates right?? lol \\


Exactly. Which proves what i said before that just because India is a democracy does not mean that the west will love India and just because china is a communist does not mean that the west will hate china ! The fact whether the west or anyone has any locus standi at all in criticising India's caste system is different matter altogether ! LOL


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Dude the proper expression is "scrape the bottom of the barrel" And you also didn't answer my question, show me where did I generalised that the western media wrote bad things about China IN EVERY REPORT?? LOL \\

As long as you got the message, why worry about an expression dude ! LOL

Ok. If you havent said 'in every report', then good for you. But you said ' china's mistakes is definitely highlighted more and critised more compared with India's'. Now do you have proff for that ?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Haha talk about backtracking! So its "CATCHING UP" instead of "LEADING" in bio tech now eh?? (which you previously boasted lol) You sure changed your tune quickly dude lol \\


You sure are desperate ! arent you ? lol .Bio tech means many things .Bio tech market, Bio tech technology etc.Now India leads in Bio tech market while its catching up in bio tech technology while it already leads in IT technology .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\Well the fact that you decided to put it in the title means you agree with it right?? \\


Yes i do.who is denying it ?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


\\good then perhaps you can finally answer my question then: Can you explain to me under what circumstances will ordinary Indians enjoy better social and health parameters than the ordinary Chinese citizens if economic performance is not a main factor?? \\

First explain it to me how is this question of yours even remotely associated with what we are discussing !


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

\\It took you 17 days to reply?? WTF LOL \\


To quote you , My time is precious ! LOL



===========================================
Let Noble Thoughts Come to Us from All Sides- RigVeda

-------------------------------------------

I think we can reach the conclusion that India is no where near closing the gap with China after what happened in Mumbai (RIP to the victims). Now the world really sees who is politically unstable which is a prerequisite for economical growth.... The gap will widen further....

-------------------------------------------------

"I think we can reach the conclusion that India is no where near closing the gap with China after what happened in Mumbai (RIP to the victims). Now the world really sees who is politically unstable which is a prerequisite for economical growth.... The gap will widen further...."

Comparing the smelly india to China itself is an insult to China.Maybe its master,westners, will put it in the failed states this time,lol.

Indian govt can improve its governance.But even its current governance is not pathetic as you are trying to imply.BTW, chinese infant mortality rates are worse than albania and its human rights record is worse than Africa.

And I suppose India has a unblemished human rights record right? Also who decides which country has a better human rights record? lol, Oh and whose malnutrition and child mortality is worst than Africa?? LOL


If you cant understand even the basic things i wrote, then thats not my problem, isnt ? Hakou has all the basic characteristics of being a chinese negative caste system(as understood by you).In fact its even worse than Indian caste system.Indian caste system was actually a humane system which got corrupted.Hakou was born as an corrupted one and there is very little chance of reforms in it short of its complete abolition which the chinese are refusing to do.

For the third time in asking, SHOW ME PROOF THAT THE HUKOU SYSTEM IS A PROPER CASTE SYSTEM?? (as claimed by you)


You need to stop acting like a jerk.There is no eveidence what so ever that the yi have 'stopped' practising caste system.I havent read anywhere that they stopped this practise.So its a fair assumption that they are still continuing this practise.

ASSUMPTION?? LOL

What a load of rubbish!

(Analogy) Theres No evidence that there aren't any fairies dancing at the back of my garden either, so does that mean there DEFINITELY are fairies dancing at the end of my garden?? LOL

Dude you made a claim, NOW WHERES YOUR PROOF??

So for the second time in asking, SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT THE YI PEOPLE ARE STILL PRACTISING CASTE TODAY??


Dude, using the same logic, majority of chinese population also reside in villages and the effects of Hakou are most prominently fealt by these rural people for whom the the effects of Hakou are a regular phenomenon.Which basically means that Hakou is practised by all chinese irrespective of rural or urban.But its evil effects are more pronounced in rural areas as it is they who most often tend to migrate to other areas. Also your so called 'acedemic post' on caste is essentially a western inspired christian written news post which will have zero credibility with respect to caste.As i stated, outsiders has zero understanding of what caste means and their 'acedemic posts' have no value when debating caste.

Dude, since you said the hukou's effects are more pronounced in rural areas then why would the rural Chinese want to support the Hukou system??

So once again (third time in asking) SHOW ME PROOF THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE RURAL CHINESE POPULATION SUPPORT THE HUKOU SYSTEM?? (as you previously claimed)


As i said in my previous post, majority of chinese live in rural areas and majority of them are effected by Hakou by the very fact that they were born into ruarl areas.It is part of parcel of their lives.Caste is soceity based but its not as rigid as Hakou is ! Hakou is institutional racism, Caste is not. !

Hakou is institutional racism?? LOL, dude the Chinese are all ONE RACE!! so wheres the RACISM?? LOL, geeze are you thick or something?


More importantly negative aspects of caste in India are in decline, but Hakou is not as this acedemic article states !

Dude Hukou is also in decline, read this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4424944.stm


Wrong.It only shows that only one govt (Indian) has the will to abolish the negative aspects of caste while the other govt (chinese) encourages the institutional exclusion prevelant in Hakou system !

Dude your Indian govt haven't got the ability to get rid of the Caste system period!!


As i said majority of non-Indian and western inspired sources has zero credibility with respect to caste and as such they should be the last ones that should be quoted.Since you are ignorant enough to understand the complexities of caste, not suprisingly it appears as BS to you !

Here is one fo the non -Indian sources which argues caste as form of contract enforcement which essentially means labour union..

And where does it say in your article that the Caste system is the SAME as a Labour union?? lol

The only single aspect where "contract enforcement" has some correlation with a labour union is the collective action or punishment! apart from that theres very little similarities.

According to the article, contract enforcement deals with the service provider (the caste member) and their consumers (customers), which isn't the same as labour unions whom deal with employers and employees. Contract enforcement essentially makes sure the caste member receives payment from it's customer, and if the customer defaults on his payment, then there is a collective action brought by the entire caste to punish the customer by refusing to provide any more services to him. This is different from a labour union who negotiates with employers about it's principal concerns which are good and safe working conditions, reasonable working hours, and a good wage etc for the employees, and Labour unions do not deal directly with consumers!

Also labour unions unlike caste do NOT make restrictions and impose itself on your private life outside of the workplace, ie. labour unions do NOT tell you who you can socialise, marry or form relationship with. Labour unions do NOT restrict you from worshiping at a temple that belongs to the upper castes. Labour unions do NOT restrict you from eating and drinking with other castes. Labour unions do Not tell you not to drink water from a well that belong to the upper castes. Labour union do Not prevent you from owning land! Labour unions do Not support bonded labour! Labour unions do NOT support manuel scavenging!! Labour union does Not support violence and beatings meted out to people who don't support it's rules (I can go on and on).

So dude don't post ridiculous articles with ambigious terms like "contract enforcement" lol, which has very little to do with labour unions!

Now give me something that CLEARLY STATES THAT THE CASTE SYSTEM IS A LABOUR UNION with NO ambiguity!


Firstly the guild system is nothing but caste system . you are just ignorant not to know that ! LOL

Ok, show me evidence that the guild system is a proper Caste system?? (credible sources please)


Secondly the wiki article has no source to back its claim that the discrimination against beeljeongs in korea is eradicated.Just because its 'frowned upon' by the educated classes does not means that its eradicated

Show me some proof then that the discrimination against the beekjeongs is still very prevalent and widespread in South Korea today??


Ok. So i think firstly you agree that you were wrong when you essentially said that there is no caste system among democracies.Secondly the numbers are misleading.When people say there are x number of harijans, that basically does not mean that all those harijans are discriminated by default.For example, India's former president is a harijan.But just because there is a harijan tag to him does not mean that people 'discriminate' their president.

Dude, it just goes to show if you give me convincing evidence then I will accept it! I'm not totally stubborn unlike some people here. Also I was simply quoting the number of Burakumins in Japan versus the number of Dalits in India, I didn't say all the Dalits were subject to discrimination did I?? Similiarily I'm sure all the Burakumins are not subjected to discrimination in Japan either!!

but a tiny miniscule minority of Burakumins in Japan is hardly a resounding endorsement for Caste system in democracies is it?? lol


Exactly. using the same logic, just because there are bad apples in caste , does not mean that the institution itself is bad.

Dude, institutions are only as good as the people manage and run it!

Also we're not talking about a few "bad apples" here are we?? If we were, then the Dalits won't be complaining bitterly about the Caste system would they?? Also by not doing anything to rectify the cruel discrimination in caste (even though Indians claim they practise freedom and democracy) Indians are collectively perpetuating the injustice in the Caste system!!

I mean why don't you ask the Dalits in your country what they think of Caste as a institution??

And what does India gain from having caste in the 21st century?? and don't reply by saying rubbish like caste is just a labour union blah blah blah, Labour unions do NOT force cruel restrictions on your private life outside of the work environment!!


During the consolidation of british colonialism during 18th century.It was the british who codified caste and manipulated it to further divide the Indian soceity.

Really? please provide some proof?


Dude, you are foolishly asking the same questions again and again.Indians continue to practise caste system since there is nothing inherently wrong with the system itself.Its the mis use of the system which is the problem.Your foolish question is like asking why do Indians continue to travel in the buses inspite of accidents ! LOL

The reason I repeatedly ask you the same question is because none of your answers are CONVINCING OR SATISFACTORY!! LOL

I asked you a very simple question, If the Caste system has been misused and turned bad for so long in Indian history, then why do Indians still choose to practise it in its present form?? given that the Indians have the power to change it because they have FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY??

Now is that so hard to understand?? So can I expect an answer from you??

And dude your comparison between a mode of transport and the Caste system is simply nonsensical lol


The very fact that you continue to use the wrong word 'dalit' instead of the original 'Harijan' word (inspite of me cautionaing you that it is not the correct word) proves how western and western inspired words create new meanings and foster them on people who in turn will start using those western inspired words.Thats precisely the reason i said that if you want to understand caste, then the one thing you should not do is to rely on western or western inspired sources. Caste system by defination is not forced upon.The problem comes from the way you are looking at the caste system.There is nothing called forced caste system.If a person from a untouchable caste in rural India wants to become president, there is nothing to stop him from becoming one .India already has its share of Harijan presidents and chief ministers from rural India.


Firstly, the word "Dalit" isn't a western word!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit
excerpt
The word 'Dalits' comes from the Hindi root dal and means 'held under check', 'suppressed' or 'crushed'or, in a looser sense, 'oppressed'. The usage of the term "Dalit" seems to have originated from the Arya Samaj and their dalitoddhara ("improvement of the downtrodden") program. The Arya Samaj began the All India Shraddhanand Dalitodwar Sabha to improve the lot of Dalits.[7]

The term was used in the 1930s as a Hindi and Marathi translation of "depressed classes"



Secondly, just because there were a few exceptional cases where dalits got top jobs does not mean this is prevalent on a national scale in India!! Thirdly, can a Dalit become a Brahmin?? If not, why not??

Fourthly why did you skip my question?, Now give me proof that Dalits don't have to comply to the Caste rules in rural India??


The fact that i am making an ignorant understand the real caste system has some significance ! LOL

So just because I don't support a discrminatory system like you makes me ignorant? Wow thats some smart Indian logic LOL


Lenin was an angel compared to the maniac which mao was LOL. Who is stopping the chinese people from choosing freedom. The ccp ? But the ccp are not outsiders isnt ? They come from chinese soceity itslef.So basically its the chinese elites which are preventing the chinese masses from chosing freedom.Who is stopping the chinese masses from over throwing their elites ! To blame everything on ccp and sitting quite is not going to do any good to chinese masses. isnt ?

Yes, CCP have done some bad things, but they have also done some good things! The Chinese people are experiencing great prosperity right now (probably more than any other time in our history), so why would they want to overthrow the CCP?? besides Communism won't last forever in China.


As i said in my previous posts, if caste system itself is not cruel and discriminatory and is working fine for Indian soceity, why should Indians remove it.Sure, there is discrimination 'based' on caste .But thats not same as caste system itself being discriminatory.Just like there is descrimination based on religion but religion itself is not descrimination.

but why does India need a Caste system in the 21st century?? If the reason is because caste acts like a labour union, then why not have proper labour unions like the rest of the world instead of caste?? Like I said, Labour unions do NOT encroach on people's private lives outside of the workplace, and force cruel discriminatory restrictions on them!!


Ok since you have agreed to my point, will you also answer the question since christianity and islam has connection to voilence and blood shed, is christianity and islam bad and hence needs to be abolished ?

Since we are talking about democratic countries here (since india is democratic) then we should talk about Christianity. Sure Christainity has spilled blood in the past, but are there Christian crusades or mass killings done in its name presently?? Also as I have said repeatedly in a proper democracy people can choose whether they want to practise religion or not!

As regards to Islam, most Islamic countries are not democratic so they are not comparable to India!! however I'm sure the majority of muslims do not support extremists like Al Queda unlike in India where the majority of it's people support Caste.


Confucianism does not have to owes its survival to slavery to prove that there is a connection between the two.The chinese soceity which is essentially a confucian soceity practises slavery even now which proves that slavery has some kind of 'bond' with confucianism.

LOL your getting desperate!! the Chinese also practised Buddhism too, an off shoot of Hinduism, so does that mean Buddhism and Hinduism has a bond with slavery too?? LOL

Dude Confucianism did not owe it's survival to slavery like Hinduism owes it's survival to Caste!!

So dude you need to do better to convince me! lol

And are you saying Chinese society still practise slavery today? got proof?


If there is no 'bond' between Hinduism and caste, there is no reson to admit anything. Just because islam and christianity has bond with voilence does not mean that Hinduism has bond with caste. Both christianity and Islam heavily relied on voilence to spread their religion which means they intentionally used voilence to their purpose.But Hinduism' case is different.Hinduism took caste only when it was in the situation of extermination.If in a helpless situation, you fire at a person in self defence, will you say there is a bond between that person and criminal activities ? LOL

Dude you keep saying that theres no bond between Hinduism and Caste, yet you keep making statements indicating there is a bond! LOL

You've just said: "Hinduism took caste only when it was in the situation of extermination" lol

And you said previously: "Hinduism used caste for its self defence during the persecution by muslims and christians"

Heres another one: "caste is only one factor in Hinduism's survival"


Thanks for agreeing with me! LOL


If in a helpless situation, you fire at a person in self defence, will you say there is a bond between that person and criminal activities ? LOL

Dude in that scenairo, if you fired a shot and killed someone even in self defence, you will probably receive a prison sentence and a criminal record. So to answer your question is there a bond?? the answer is yes! the bond is the prison sentence and the criminal record!


If its soceity based, then every religion in that soceity including islam and christianity (and not just Hinduism) will have connection to caste which is not a bad thing btw.

Dude I have already posted an article previously which said that Caste can be found in other religions besides Hinduism within India, but that still does not negate the fact that Hinduism has a bond with caste.


Your 'article' is BS. Its written by an western inspired christian and as such has zero credibility with respect to caste !

Oh great Brahmin, Of course your right! anything that does not concur with your point of view is WRONG right?? LOL


I already proved it.But you are just foolish enough not to realise that ! LOL

Just exactly what have you proved? lol

So for the umpteenth time, SHOW ME PROOF THAT THE CASTE SYSTEM IS A LABOUR UNION OR POLITICAL PARTY?


So you mean to say that a 'bond' will be there only between man and ideology but not between a man and a object ? Its time for you to stop sounding like a jerk ! LOL

Ouch, did I hit a nerve? lol

Dude if you don't know why its ridiculous comparing a rusty rifle with an ideology then you must be really dumb! LOL


Ok. i will.But it also proves that you are BS ing all this time !


Oh great Brahmin, everything you say is NEVER wrong! LOL


But Hakou is more discriminatory and more wide spread than caste system can ever can be !

Like I said Hukou is simply legislation, while Caste system has massive support in rural India.

BTW I'm still waiting on you to provide evidence that the majority of rural Chinese support Hukou??


What does that prove ? If Hu Jiantao will say something positive on Hakou, then does that make Hakou system good ? Then what makes you think that caste is negative just because Manmohan singh said so. LOL


Hu Jiantao is NOT democratically elected! while Manmohan Singh is democratically elected by the people of India to represent them! which is more than can be said about a certain nationalistic Indian on this forum who continues to talk drivel LOL


Does not matter as long as the speculation is correct.You still did not answer my question.Why would a western news report will report or even mention irrelevant things like rapes and poverty when writing an essentially scientific report on Indian space programme ?

Are you a total idiot? SPECULATION DOES NOT EQUAL FACT!

Regarding the comment on rapes, I was speaking hypothetically, heres what I said:

"So lets say for the sake of argument that a western news report wrote about the Indian space program and included a paragraph about the rising incidents of rapes in India! will you automatically link the two together and accuse the western media of saying that the Indian space program were run by RAPISTS??"


Note I used the term "for the sake of argument" If you don't know what that means, then look it up in a dictionary!! Damn and I thought Indians are meant to be good at English! lol


The fact you are uttering such nonsense basically means you have nothing else to say ! LOL

It can't be worst than the rubbish you've been spouting through out this entire thread! LOL


Exactly. Which proves what i said before that just because India is a democracy does not mean that the west will love India and just because china is a communist does not mean that the west will hate china ! The fact whether the west or anyone has any locus standi at all in criticising India's caste system is different matter altogether ! LOL

Dude, POLITICALLY the West hates Communism and loves democracy! and thats why India gets more criticisms from the West regarding Caste and poverty which are SOCIAL ISSUES not political.


Ok. If you havent said 'in every report', then good for you. But you said ' china's mistakes is definitely highlighted more and critised more compared with India's'. Now do you have proff for that ?

Wow actually your admitting a mistake for once eh? lol

Dude all you have to do is type "Communism, China" into Google and read all the negative articles, and compare it with typing "democracy, India" (I'm not going to copy and paste them all here for you! the replies in this thread are getting long enough already)

And if you really believe that POLITICALLY the West doesn't hate communism more than Democracy then you must live on another planet!


You sure are desperate ! arent you ? lol .Bio tech means many things .Bio tech market, Bio tech technology etc.Now India leads in Bio tech market while its catching up in bio tech technology while it already leads in IT technology

Bio technology does not equate to Bio Tech market!! So stop backtracking! LOL, One involves technological innovation while the other involves buying and selling!

Just to remind you heres what you said initially:


"India is leading in private enterprise , Information technology and pharmacuticals and bio technology"

Dude why don't you simply admit your WRONG? lol


Yes i do.who is denying it ?

good


First explain it to me how is this question of yours even remotely associated with what we are discussing !

Dude I've explained it many times to you before

The topic of this thread is "India is closing the gap with China" (which you agree with) Well "closing the gap with China" has many aspects, and one of the most important aspect is surely the health and social progress of Indian citizens!! its also a gauge to show how much India has improved the lives of it's people!! So in essence what I'm asking is "are Indian people closing the gap with the Chinese people" on the important factors of health and social levels which are essential barometers for the health and well-being of the nation!

So the question is again:

Can you explain to me under what circumstances will ordinary Indians enjoy better social and health parameters than the ordinary Chinese citizens if economic performance is not a main factor??

And don't try to dodge the question!


To quote you , My time is precious ! LOL


So you had to copy my words how original LOL

"BTW, chinese infant mortality rates are worse than albania and its human rights record is worse than Africa. "

This indian probably one of the most brainwashed and stupid I have come across (yes, I have come across plenty on WAFF)......Lol1o1lo1l11l Laughing at china's infant mortality while theirs is far worse......

them moronic indians.....l1o1l1o1l1o1l1o1l

-------------------------------------------------

Keep owning him, Tron......l1o1l11l

-------------------------------------------------

Keep owning him, Tron......l1o1l11l


Hawkssss bro


thanks for the support lol

Any time, comrade Tron...haha

-------------------------------------------------