This is not a Ditko topic, but it certainly could apply to some of his stories. But, first you have to work with me on a fanciful premise. I like to pretend that heroes are real and that comics are merely the fictionalized, exaggerated retellings of their adventures.
Sometimes the publishers must have nabbed characters that would have been a better fit for their competitors. To use a sports analogy- Some of these heroes seem to have been signed by the wrong team. I can easily imagine Captain America and the Fantastic Four as DC heroes, and surely Firestorm showed up for training at the wrong camp.
A) What characters do you think would fit better with another publisher?
B) Can you think of Silver and Bronze Age stories that seemed to suit competitor's styles better than their own house?
This message has been edited by larrylawrence on Sep 11, 2003 12:17 PM
I agree with you that Captain America is basically a DC character and that Firestorm is basically a Marvel one. I don't see how you could call the FF "DC characters," though. They're the very epitome of Marvel heroes. They have feet of clay and their stories are more epic! You'd have an easier time convincing me that the Fourth World belongs at Marvel!
I think that the original Doom Patrol is, in some some ways, a hodge-podge of both. They were Marvel heroes in DC stories! Like Marvel heroes, they were feared and they sometimes fought amongst themselves. However, the stories had that DC polish and included oddball DC-type villains and situations (talking gorillas, brains in a jar, etc.).
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons."
-From The Simpsons, "Treehouse of Horror II"
Funny, I always thought that Iron Man--with Tony Stark's millions, his thriving corporation, his many love affairs, and his technological brilliance--could've been a DC hero, drawn, say, by Carmine or Curt Swan. Cap, though--I'll always think of him as a Marvel hero.
How well would the Sub-Mariner fit into the DC universe? Or Daredevil? Hmmmmmm....
This message has been edited by MarkLerer on Sep 8, 2003 4:11 PM
Iron Man has a lot of the Silver Age DC characteristics but his heart problem is more Marvelish. Namor is sometimes a hero, sometimes a villain and has a bad attitude, not things I associate with DC -- and he was like that from day one in the 40s. DD's blindness seems to me a non-DC thing, but it seems to me there's a similar DC character I can't think of right now - though DD's tragic solitude if very Marvel.
I can't think of a DC character created after, say, 1969 that seems like a real DC character to me: The Creeper, Deadman, The New Gods (and company), Hawk and Dove, Brother Power: The Geek, etc. Not many of them could hold down their own title for very long either.
I agree with Jim: I don't think there's been a REAL DC character since the end of the Silver Age - or, at least, I can't think of any. DC has even tacked "Marvel personalities" on some of their older heroes (Green Arrow is probably the most obvious example of this.)
Iron Man is very much a Marvel character. It's not just the heart condition. He's own body guard, for crying out loud! That twist just SCREAMS Stan Lee - as does the love triangle with Happy Hogan and Pepper Potts.
Daredevil, as originally conceived, was largely an "adult Spider-Man" - just as the original X-Men were teen-age versions of the Fantastic Four. It's a case of Marvel trying to imitate its own success. I thus wouldn't count Daredevil as a DC character, either.
Of course, much of this depends on what you consider to be the defining characteristics of the two companies. Obviously, I look to the Silver Age when making my arguments. Since that time, the two companies have become less and less distinct. (You could argue, for example, that Daredevil - thanks to Frank Miller - has become more like Batman and less like Spider-Man. Again, I personally don't consider this the definitive version of the character. I realize that many would disagree.)
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons."
-From The Simpsons, "Treehouse of Horror II"
Marvel and DC imitated each other a lot, so I guess counting Firestorm as a Marvel style character is disqualification. Looking back to the Silver Age, Martian Manhunter could have easily worked as a Marvel character. "Hunted and feared by those he has sworn to protect..."
Dang that's got me thinking... did Ditko ever draw J'Onn? That would be fun to see him play with MM's transformation abilities.
I don't remember Ditko ever drawing the Martian Manhunter, but my knowledge of DC isn't nearly as complete as my knowledge of Marvel.
Another note: I remember people at Marvel in the early 1980's talking about Moon Knight as Marvel's "Batman" character, in that his abilities with weaponry and combat were the core of his prowess, rather than any super-human suspension-of-disbelief powers. But I can't really say that the flavor of Bill Sienkiewicz's Moon Knight stories struck me as "DC" in any way. Perhaps I ought to buy the new Neal Adams Batman volume--I, ignorant scamp that I am, never read those stories which, people, tell me, re-established the "mood" in Batman.
Mark, I can't believe you've not read an Adams Batman story! Surely a reprint in Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told, or sumpthin'? If you do pick up the Adams Batman volume, please read some early Sixties tales first to clear your mental "palette". A lot of what was good about them will seem like a given, the mood and mystique.
I was about seven years old when I first encountered Adams on Deadman in Strange Adventures. I didn't quite like the art, but wouldn't have been able to explain why at the time. Remembering my reaction, I'd interpret those thoughts as "Good art, but the characters are overacting".
Moon Knight appeared in the back of the Hulk Magazine and was not code approved. It got a rep, as it was the most violent super hero series at the time. MK became a Batman clone after Bill S. took over the art, and if copying panels counts as being influenced, then he was heavily influenced by Neal Adams' Batman. Ugh- now that I think about, the fashionable savagery depicted in Moon Knight's adventures cast a long and influential shadow. My pick for today for the blame of ruining comics!
Just recently (in the Sienkiewicz thread, I think) I mentioned the Batman-Moon Knight theory. A lot of it also had to do with the fact that when rich, playboy Marc whatever was gaining in popularity, then-Neal Adams clone Bill Sienkiewicz was drawing him.
...that new Harras creation at DC. It was begun as a Captain Atom shake-up, right? Well, wasn't Firestorm DC's answer to Captain Atom? So, how many different people can we have running around at one company with the same powers....never mind.
Which Marvel & DC heroes might fit better in a different universe? I'll agree that the Charlton heroes might be best left in a serparate universe, but I'm not sure about the Fawcett characters. I've heard people say that Captain Marvel & The Marvel Family would fit best in their own universe, but I'm not sure I agree. I think they fit in just fine in the DCU, just keep their main adventures in Fawcett City. Although maybe they might be better in the MU, since then Captain Marvel could basically be the Superman of that world (plus they could publish the series under his own name, instead of using "SHAZAM!")
Captain America definately belongs at Marvel, in fact, if you added Captain Marvel to that universe then they could basically be the Superman & Batman equivilents, athough technically Thor could easily be the Superman of the MU if he was written properly (which he rarely is, IMO).
Regarding some other characters who've been brought up here, I agee that both Iron Man & Green Arrow would fit in well if they switched universes. And Firestorm might be better at Marvel, but the FF are Marvel characters all the way.
Some villains might be good for a switch. I could see Bullseye & The Chameleon as Batman villains. Solomon Grundy & Killer Croc could be good Spider-Man villains. Galactus would probably be a better DCU villain, although I think the Silver Surfer belongs at Marvel.
Y'know, I remember when the DC vs. Marvel series was first announced it was rumoured that at the end a character from each universe was going to switch for one year. Obviously that didn't happen, but I wonder if they were seriously considering doing that & if so, who would the characters have been?
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