Hey there,

It's been a long time since I've had an automatic apart and my mind is foggy. I hope someone with more recent experience can guide me where to go and what else to look for...

We have an AOD out of a 1991 Mustang 5.0L that came to us with no O/D. This, along with a fuel-injected 5.0 (out of a different Mustang) are being transplanted into my sons '66 Mustang. The engine is done and now its time to move on to the transmission.

Its apart and we've got a master rebuild kit with steels, both bands and the front and rear bushings. Started to break down the subassemblies and noticed the bushing on the "center support planetary" #59 or #60 in the image (#59 is not identified) is wiped out - it defininitely needs to be replaced.



I'll try and get a pic of the actual damage tonight, but wanted to post while I was thinking about it. What I need help with is - seeing this damage, is there other areas I should be looking at?

Thanks in advance.
Rich

Yes, the planetary #62 has a bushing in the small (rear) end. (that bushing not visible in your picture).

That bushing is VERY commonly worn out.

You must drive the bushing out towards the rear of the planet using a bushing cutter. You can't get a driver in there. It won't come out the other way cuz the torrington bearing inside the planet gets in the way.

When installing the new bushing, BEWARE the rear edge of the bore often has a very sharp edge, and will messup the bushing when you try to install it.

You MUST chamfer the sharp edge of the bore to get the bushing in.

Carefully check all other bushing for wear. The small sun gear bushing is often worn out too. If fact, just get a bushing kit for the trans and change 'em all. You will feel better about it that way.

Good info there...all very true!
As for 59/60 being bad...that is actually pretty rare.

Thanks to the both of you for your response. I've added a couple pictures of the damage (sorry they're lousy cell phone pics) - I'm wondering most about the wear spot on the outside (first pic) which I think is from the snap ring. Should this be replaced or is it ok?

Thanks again.

That damage in your first (smaller) pic, looks like it's from the "anti rattle" clip that goes between the center support lug and the case. Thats nothing to worry about.

OTOH... if all the lugs look like that, it is from the center support "hammering" back and forth in the case. Inspect the case for hammered out lugs....

The bushing does indeed look wiped out in the 2nd pic. Not common but it does happen. In that situation, the other (rear) small bushing will FOR SURE  be NFG.

That is the only lug with damage. Thanks for the info. I'll order a bushing kit and check for further damage.

can I pick your brain a little further - I mentioned earlier that the trans was pulled due to no O/D. Any specific areas I should be looking at?

(Last time I built transmissions was 20 years ago - C4/T350/727 type)

Sorry to hijack into this thread but do any of the AOD/AODE bushings need a special size/style of bushing driver to install them. Thanks for any advice or tips. Pete

I use a "standard" set of bushing drivers. Professional Trans shop standard set....

There are some bushings in the AOD/AODE that none of the standard set will fit quite right.

Since I work in a trans shop and have been doing this for over 30 years..... we figure out ways to make stuff work... or get the boss to buy the proper drivers.

If you don't have experience, or the proper drivers, I strongly recommend you take the parts to a trans shop that has the right tools and get them to install the bushings.

Okay, we got all the bushings in without issue, except for the rear planetary bushing. My son tried installing it when I was at work and ruined it. We have a Transtar near us so I stopped by on my way home and picked up 2 since they were only a couple bucks each.

He went out and came back in - "I don't think this is the right one" - another one damaged.

Got out the calipers and the OD of the bushing is 1.380" - according to the parts books that's correct.

The ID of the planetary hub is 1.370". I don't see any damage in the race area - seems like a .010 interference fit for a bushing is a little tight. Is this normal?

I just thought - I wonder if this planet is a 4R70W part, but the catalog shows the same bushing. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

10 thou press fit is very tight. Something is wrong.

It's not unheard of for bushings to get mixed up in the parts supplier bins.

Since TransStar is near you, take the planet and your calipers and see if you can get a parts guy to help you get the right bushing.

You did chamfer the edge of the bore, for the bushing, right?

Edit; they may also have a rear planet so you can compare with yours.

I have sometimes come across parts with either undersize or oversize bushing bores.

Doesn't happen often.... but it does happen....

The factory has selective bushings so they can still use an "out of spec" part.

Frustrating for anyone rebuilding that unit, since we mere mortals don't have access to those selective bushings.

If that turns out to be your situation, nothing you can do except buy/get another planet.

I told him about chamfering the bore but it doesn't appear he did that.

I have a coworker who is an ex-Chrysler trans guy who has a press and the proper drivers. We're going to take it over there tonight and try to install the 2nd bushing (good thing I bought 2).

If we have issues with that, then I'll take the planet to Transtar and go from there.

Thanks to the both of you. I'm glad I found this forum.

Rich

You have to chamffer that edge for sure to replace...and yes some are pretty damn snug. On that bushing I often have to beat my bushing driver back out, however the direct drum doesn;t have an issue. Id say you have the right bushing - they fit tight here for sure. It is not uncommon to see the aluminum OD of the bushing curl up when driving it in. ALso, be sure to seat it a good .05 into the bore so the direct to hub bearing location tabs will fit in the bore.

Hopefully its smooth sailing from here on in.

Are you pounding or pressing it in?

It should be pressed in but galaxie is correct.
.010 is kinda snug.

I mentioned earlier that the trans was pulled due to no O/D. Any specific areas I should be looking at?

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No OD can happen for a number of reasons...

Broken/burnt OD band

Bad servo seals

Valvebody or governor problems, TV linkage setup.

Tip; Installing the OD band and servo....

Assemble the trans standing on end. When you get to the OD band, put it in place and install the servo right away.

If you finish assembly of the main case and lay the trans on it's side to put the servo in.... you will find that it is very difficult/tricky to get the servo pin to engage the band properly. (it can be done, it's just easier to do it NOW)

Install the servo while the trans is standing up (before you put the Int clutches and pump in) and you can look in and positively see the servo pin engage the band.

Put the servo in later and it becomes a bit of a guessing game whether or not the servo pin engaged the band properly.

Take extra care with the valvebody. These VB's are finicky as hell. Proper torque on the bolts is a MUST!

We call them "potato chip" valvebodys cuz they are so thin and will warp if you look at them wrong.

Warps and un-even torqued bolts lead to sticky valves and all kinds of problems.

Here's one that trips up even the "experts"... The filter is held on with 3 small bolts. 2 at the front and one at the rear.

The front bolts are ok, a slight over torque won't hurt anything.

The rear bolt is right over a valve and overtightening that bolt warps the VB and causes the valve to stick.

Trouble is.... the filter metal case tends to "squash down" when you tighten that rear bolt, and feels really "spongy" while torquing.

Because of this... guys tend to crank down on the bolt cuz it feels like it's not tight.... so they crank down until it DOES feel tight. (they are compressing the metal of the filter case). Now the bolt feels tight and all is good.... or is it? Probably too tight....

Here's what I do... I crank the bolt down to compress the filter metal case and get rid of the spongy feel to the bolt. Then loosen it and re-torque to spec. Now it doesn't feel spongy cuz I have pre-compressed the metal filter case, and the torque comes up real nice.

EDIT; When inspecting the VB... Look CAREFULLY at everything. These VB's are known to have broken clips and valve springs. When small parts break, sometimes its hard to spot, and the tiny little broken pieces can jam a valve and be very hard to see.

This is not the easiest VB to work on. Getting some of the valves out can be a nightmare. The aluminum end plugs get burrs on them and will refuse to come out of the bore. Then you get a really big screw driver and just pry that sucker outta there... NOT!

The aluminum will gall and the plug will wedge itself in the bore, and if you do get it out, there will be big gouges and .... not good.

Be very careful with the VB.... it's kinda delicate....

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

ALl good info again.
The bushing does look bad, but frankly getting a reman center support for $20 is mush easier Just saying, that bushing is NO FUN to replace.
Wittrans.com for your parts, bet you have one local you can drive to

The reason 99% of OD dies is
1) TV cable came unhooked
2) to much torque for servo/1.5" band and using it too low speeds...OD after 55mph, always.

Thanks for the link - ordered a bushing kit but that bushing wasn't included in the 13 pc set. Is that not a commonly replaced bushing?

The center support has 2 listings on wittrans.com - one with "U" prefix is $20 and one with "N" prefix is $26. I assume the first is used and the 2nd is new - I left a message on the voicemail of the number listed on the website - seems like some guys personal voice mail

asked if the New one comes with the bushing installed - they do not have a bushing for the center support listed seperately

haven't heard back yet.

Correct; that bushing is commonly not replaced. It is almost always still good, even in a high mileage trans.

U = used, N = new, either one should come with the bushing already installed.

I have not changed one of those bushings for... well... a LONG time... working in a trans repair shop we have lots of cores and parts.

If I get a center support with a bad bushing, I just go grab a good used support off the shelf.

Thank you very much.