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Help, bad noises

March 21 2012 at 11:06 PM
Pete's Ponies  (Login PetesPonies)
from IP address 68.34.231.143

 
I have an '84 Bronco II with originally a C5. I put a FSB V8 engine in it and adapted the stock C5.I changed the bellhousing and torque converter. I also changed the valve body to one from a C4. Putting a V8 in was a big job and I did a lot of things a long the way to make it look stock. Bottom line is along with my work and other cars, I spent a long time doing this, on and off.When I finally got ready to start the rebuilt engine, I had only put one nut on the TC, and it wasn't tight. I forgot about this and started the engine. I immediately heard a rapping sound. The engine ran maybe 5 seconds. I started it agin to hear the noise again, maybe 10 -15 seconds. It finally dawned on my what I had done, forgotten the other nuts. I then put the other three nuts on and tightened them up. I started the engine again and the noise was much less, but still there. I put the trans in gear and nothing. I went through all the gears, nothing. When I went to put it back in park, it would not go easily, clicking, then finally dropping into park. So . . sound familiar?? Running it those few seconds with the TC loose messed up the pump?? or?? How about the parking paw clicking and not wanting to go back in? Seems all these things are related . . what have I done?? Thanks

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

 
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AuthorReply
gregaust
(no login)
203.143.247.76

Re: Help, bad noises

March 22 2012, 3:44 AM 

The loose nuts would not have hurt anything. Just check the converter is actaully tight. A normal nut may bottom on the studs and not hold it tight..
As for the other verify the linkage is adjusted correct .

 
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(Login stuart40a)
Forum Moderator
71.17.81.131

Re: Help, bad noises

March 22 2012, 9:39 AM 

Remove a cooler line at the rad and fire it up.

If fluid gushes out the pump is good.


No gush means the pump is bad.

 
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Pete's Ponies
(Login PetesPonies)
68.34.231.143

but . . .

March 22 2012, 10:16 AM 

Could I have damaged the pump by leaving the TC loose? Because this was a perfect 58K trans before. The knock is loud.

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

 
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Pete's Ponies
(Login PetesPonies)
68.34.231.143

could the wrong . . .

March 22 2012, 1:49 PM 

TC be causing the knocking?? I am pretty sure the spline count is correct, but . . . . .

 
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galaxiex
(Login galaxiex)
142.59.165.215

Re: could the wrong . . .

March 22 2012, 4:04 PM 

Cracked flexplate will/can cause knocking noise. Can be very loud sometimes.

You won't be able to see the crack with trans installed.

Flexplate must be removed from crankshaft also.

They usually crack around/near the center pilot hole, or from a bolt hole to a "window" if it's not a solid flex plate. 

Crack can be very hard to see sometimes. A very tiny hairline crack can be almost impossible to spot.

Hold flexplate up and tap with a hammer, it should "ring" nicely. If it makes a "clank" sound it's cracked.

Another way to spot a crack is to pour some solvent on the flex plate, just enough to "wet" it.

Then drop it horizontal on a flat surface (concrete floor) from a few inches up. Watch closely and if cracked the solvent will "spray" from the crack. May have to repeat a few times to see it.


 
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kevink1955
(no login)
24.47.202.248

Re: could the wrong . . .

March 22 2012, 6:52 PM 

The clicking when puting it in park tells me that either the transfer case is in neutral or the trans output shaft is no longer connected to the transfer case input shaft (dont think that possiable if they are bolted together)

The trans output shaft is spining up with nothing connected, thats why it grinds going into park

 
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kevink1955
(no login)
24.47.202.248

Re: could the wrong . . .

March 22 2012, 6:59 PM 

Of course I am asssuming it's 4 wheel drive, all the ones I have seen around here are

 
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Pete's Ponies
(Login PetesPonies)
68.34.231.143

all '84s

March 22 2012, 7:10 PM 

are 4X4.

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

 
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(Login stuart40a)
Forum Moderator
71.17.81.131

Re: all '84s

March 23 2012, 1:59 PM 

It had a 94-inch (2,388 mm) wheelbase and was enclosed in the rear.

Unlike the Bronco, the Bronco II offered four wheel drive as an option.

(all full-sized Broncos were four wheel drive)


 
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Pete's Ponies
(Login PetesPonies)
68.34.231.143

you are incorrect Stuart, sorry

March 23 2012, 2:21 PM 

but ALL '84s were 4X4. It THEN became an option later.

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

 
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(Login stuart40a)
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71.17.81.131

This is from wikipedia

March 23 2012, 5:49 PM 


 
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Pete's Ponies
(Login PetesPonies)
68.34.231.143

want me to . . .

March 23 2012, 11:23 PM 

change it on there?? Because it's wrong if that is what it says. Trust me Stuart.

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

 
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(Login stuart40a)
Forum Moderator
71.17.81.131

Re: want me to . . .

March 24 2012, 8:16 AM 

"Unlike the Bronco, the Bronco II offered four wheel drive as an option (all full-sized Broncos were four wheel drive) and did not have a removable roof."

This is what wikipedia states.


You are probably correct and if you can change it and supply proof go for it.


 
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Pete's Ponies
(Login PetesPonies)
68.34.231.143

It is now changed . .

March 24 2012, 4:53 PM 

to reflect the fact that all 84 and 85 BIIs were 4wd.

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

 
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Pete's Ponies
(Login PetesPonies)
68.34.231.143

that sounds good . . .

March 22 2012, 7:09 PM 

I will check that. With the awful sound, that thought never crossed my worried mind happy.gif So hopefully I didn't have the transfer case engaged, now what about the sound assuming nothing is cracked as its all new.

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

 
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Pete's Ponies
(Login PetesPonies)
68.34.231.143

brand new . .

March 22 2012, 7:08 PM 

flexplate, brand new converter.

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

 
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kevink1955
(no login)
24.47.202.248

Re: brand new . .

March 22 2012, 8:11 PM 

you did tighten the flexplate to crank bolts when you put it together.

I cannot see the loose convetor nuts doing any damage to the pump or the convertor in that short a run time. check the transfer case and hopefuly it's in neutral, put it in gear then load up the trans. Make sure it's full of fluid and see how it goes.

I had a knock coming from the convertor area of my sons 67 stang at idle after we put it together, checked everything-found nothing wrong. After a month of driving it it went away, never did find out what it was.

Hope yours works out as well

 
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Pete's Ponies
(Login PetesPonies)
68.34.231.143

one step at a time . . .

March 22 2012, 10:03 PM 

I'll fix the transfer situation tomorrow and then . . thanks happy.gif

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

 
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(Login stuart40a)
Forum Moderator
71.17.81.131

Re: one step at a time . . .

March 23 2012, 8:16 AM 

Had you done as I suggested earlier you could have focused on a different area.

Checking for fluid flow.

 
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Pete's Ponies
(Login PetesPonies)
68.34.231.143

h m m . . .

March 23 2012, 2:23 PM 

don't think I have done anything as of yet Stuart. I restore automobiles for a living and have been busy. Don't see anything wrong with what has been suggested by others as well.

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

 
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(Login stuart40a)
Forum Moderator
71.17.81.131

Re: h m m . . .

March 23 2012, 5:51 PM 

Nothing wrong with what others have suggested.


You were concerned about damaging the pump. My first suggestion was to see if the pump was working, then move on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Bronco_II

 
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Pete's Ponies
(Login PetesPonies)
68.34.231.143

well I did this . . .

March 23 2012, 11:28 PM 

I checked my adjustment on the transfer case and it was indeed off a bit. So the case wasn't engaged. So that dodged a big one there with something very simple to correct. Like I said, when I heard the knocking . . I went into panic mode. wasn't thinking what could be wrong that was an easy fix. Anyway, that part is fine now. Now the knock . . I looked more into it . and found the weight on the flexplate had wear marks on it. I used a die grinder with a stone and went over the weight. It immediately made a difference in the sound, so I did some more. Understand this is doing very little to the overall weight of this piece. I'm barely making a change. But I did this several times, and it gets better and better, but doesn't go completely away unless you let it run for about 30 seconds, then nothing. I turn it off, grind a bit more and the noise is still there when I start it back up, but again goes away.Any ideas?

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

 
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Kevink1955
(no login)
24.47.202.248

Next Item

March 23 2012, 11:50 PM 

Any Idea what it is hitting? do you have a stock starter or an aftermarket Hi Torque. Hitting the starter nose?

Was the engine a fresh rebuild or a used one, may have a bad thrust bearing allowing the crank to move front to back.

Is it the correct flexplate for the engine, early engine 28oz late engine 50oz. I think just running it at 1500rpm will tell you if the weight is correct.

Like I said earler, my sons 67 stang had a knock that we never found it just went away after a while. It's been running for about 10000 miles and it's still good.

Glad the other problem was so simple, hope this one is as easy.

Let us know what you find.

 
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Pete's Ponies
(Login PetesPonies)
68.34.231.143

I built . . .

March 24 2012, 11:02 AM 

the engine, its all fresh. I know all about the different Ford smallblocks and correct parts. This is what I do. So its a correct flexplate, at least from the correct box happy.gif No, the engine runs smooth, no problem. Just that it appears thw weight was hitting . . possibily a oil gallery plug?? The starter is a stock on, thought about pulling it out to see if there are any hit marks.If it were, maybe some slight grinding. I have never had a situation like this before with any Ford SB I built or even worked on. So clearance being an issue is weird.

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

 
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gregaust
(no login)
203.143.247.76

Re: well I did this . . .

March 24 2012, 4:37 AM 

If that is in fact the problem with the weight , it is possible the converter has not been seated correctly and the flexlate has been bent on installation.. Something out of whack there if that weight is hitting. IMO grinding the weight sure isn;t a good fix , you need to find out whay or what it is hitting

 
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Pete's Ponies
(Login PetesPonies)
68.34.231.143

well certainly . .

March 24 2012, 11:05 AM 

not normal, but when you look at the "hunk" of steel that is welded on, doesn't seem difficult to imagine it being off a bit. If clearances are that close to begin with, wouldn't take too much of a sloppy weld to stick it out a tad more. I believe the TC is seated correct, all studs came right through and the nuts are all showing the same amount of threads exposed.

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

 
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kevink1955
(no login)
24.47.202.248

Re: well certainly . .

March 24 2012, 2:51 PM 

Pete, was just thinking. How about a starter bolt that is to long. As I remember it the starter bolts up to the bellhousing with the bolts heading toward the flexplate, 1 thats to long could wind up in the flexplate area.

Also do you have a block plate between the engine and the bellhousing, it's required on all auto trans small blocks that I have seen.

 
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Pete's Ponies
(Login PetesPonies)
68.34.231.143

h m m, I think

March 24 2012, 4:54 PM 

all starter bolts ( only 2 ) go through the bell. I'll have to check on this again before I say for sure. I'm going to pull the starter and see if that is where it is hitting on the inside. Thanks

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

 
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(no login)
98.30.192.48

Fix the problem

March 25 2012, 10:53 AM 

If I am reading this right you have already compromised the engine by grinding on the counterweight. That will come back to haunt you very soon. I would pull the trans and investigate where the error is made. If properly assembled there should be no hitting of any of the componets you mentioned. Do your self and,if this is a customers Bronco, them a favor and make it right. Just my 2 cents

 
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Pete's Ponies
(Login PetesPonies)
68.34.231.143

the amount of weight removed . . .

March 26 2012, 9:31 AM 

by me grinding the weight slightly is minuscule. It has done nothing to the balance of the engine, well within specs. That's not an issue. However, I do believe I know why its hitting and will report that when I am positive.

Pete's Ponies
Mustang RUSToration & Performance

 
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Frank
(Login fmerkl)
96.45.3.117

Re: the amount of weight removed . . .

March 28 2012, 11:50 PM 

Probably need to rotate the convertor 90degrees so the drain plugs fit through the flexplate holes
Frank

 
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