1 O LORD , do not rebuke me in your anger
or discipline me in your wrath.
2 Be merciful to me, LORD , for I am faint;
O LORD , heal me, for my bones are in agony.
3 My soul is in anguish.
How long, O LORD , how long?
4 Turn, O LORD , and deliver me;
save me because of your unfailing love.
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hello, sinilip ko lang itong forum na ito, nagbukas ka pala ng panibago?, saka nalang ako magreply sa iba pa ninyong comments baka bukas o sa monday na kasi pagod me...
sa atin ba itong dalawa talaga?, salamat naman...
ano bang gusto mong topic?, maglatag ka or yung dati nating topic?...
Michael (former INC officer)
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Comments lang ito Michael wag kang mag alala, di pa nga tayo tapos dun sa isa eh, tapusin muna natin, sumagot ka muna ng maayos at naaayon sa paksa. Ok lang kung matagalan ka, ako rin naman eh busy rin.
1 O LORD , do not rebuke me in your anger
or discipline me in your wrath.
2 Be merciful to me, LORD , for I am faint;
O LORD , heal me, for my bones are in agony.
3 My soul is in anguish.
How long, O LORD , how long?
4 Turn, O LORD , and deliver me;
save me because of your unfailing love.
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
1 O LORD , do not rebuke me in your anger
or discipline me in your wrath.
2 Be merciful to me, LORD , for I am faint;
O LORD , heal me, for my bones are in agony.
3 My soul is in anguish.
How long, O LORD , how long?
4 Turn, O LORD , and deliver me;
save me because of your unfailing love.
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
(Login michael_a2007)
TIDUS...
No score for this post March 28 2008, 11:26 PM
2. Ang AMA ay mas DAKILA or GREATER THAN the SON (John 14:28)...or i may say the FATHER is GREATER than ALL...
Vs.
4. may tanong ako, may nakasulat ba na GOD IS GREATER THAN CHRIST???...tanong lang po... Eli Soriano:"Ang taong nagkakakontra-kontra ang sinasabi, 'yung medyo may sira ulo 'non."
1 O LORD , do not rebuke me in your anger
or discipline me in your wrath.
2 Be merciful to me, LORD , for I am faint;
O LORD , heal me, for my bones are in agony.
3 My soul is in anguish.
How long, O LORD , how long?
4 Turn, O LORD , and deliver me;
save me because of your unfailing love.
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Di bale po bro, pag naka-DSL na kami, hopefully makikita ko na po silang lahat. Naka-dial-up connection lang po ako, saka busy na rin ako sa work, mon. - sat.
sa mga nailatag ko gaya ng GAl 5:13 at Mat 4:10 ay wala akong sinabing patunay ko na yang mga talatang nabanggit ay DIYOS SI CRISTO, wala me sinabi na ganyan kundi ang term na ONLY...
sabi mo sa akin "“Ano ang relasyon ng talatang ito sa pagka-dios ni Cristo? O pagka Cristo ng Dios?”...
sagot ko naman, malaking relasyon nito dahil nga di porket may nabasa kayong FAther, the "ONLY" true God...ay isa yan sa mga patunay ninyo na HINDI DIYOS SI CRISTO, without consulting otehr verses of the Bible that proves CHRIST is GOD...
basahin mo nalang ang sagot ko sa John 17:1-3 sa taas para di masyadong mahaba ito...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
eto pa ang patunay ninyo, ang salitang "ONE" dito proves JESUS IS NOT GOD...
1Cr 8:6 (RSV) yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist,..."
ang explanation ninyo dito ay isa lang talaga ang DIyos, ang Ama at hindi si Cristo at sinoman katunayan may salitang "ONE GOD"...
pero teka, may karugtong yan...
"...and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
so ibig bang sabihin nyan may ONE din "ONE LORD", Jesus Christ...that means ba na HINDI NA LORD ang AMA?...
baka sabihn mo na IBA ang pagka Lord ng AMA at ni Jesus, well, the verse speaks, "ONE LORD" at "ONE GOD"...or doesn't it???...
whether iba o hindi "LORD" pa rin diba?...
gaya ng "diyos ng sanlibutan", (2 Cor 4:4) whether IBA siya sa DIYOS na manlalalang ay diyos pa rin siya, ng sanlibutan nga lang...getz???...
Michael (former INC officer)
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The best ay doon ka sumagot sa tamang thread. ayaw kong isipin na kung saan-saan mo ibinabato ang mga sagot mo para magulo ang forum.
Napakaganda ng mg isinulat mo dito, kalabang-kalaban ng ibang mga sagot mo sa ibang thread. Just keep on answering Michael, malapit ko ng matapos ang compilation ng mga sagot mo. Don
t worry Michael, your answers and questions will not be tampered, it will be presented the way it was written.
Angel_09
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(Login michael_a2007)
i3answers...
No score for this post April 3 2008, 2:22 PM
...
yan ang hirap sa inyo, di nakikinig sa explanation, hehe...
MAKIKINIG lang naman kayo ah, di ko naman kayo maforce na MANIWALA dahil nakapako o nakakandado na ang faith ninyo...
ang sa akin lang bakit ayaw sagutin ang mga tanong kung mali nga diba?, lol!
Michael (former INC officer) Sang-ayon ka pala sa nakasulat sa John 14:28 na the Father is greater than the Son, pero bakit tinatanong mo pa rin kung may nakasulat ba na GOD IS GREATER THAN CHRIST? Don't tell me ikaw si Danny Navales (MIC sa Ang Dating Daan).
Sang-ayon ka pala sa nakasulat sa John 14:28 na the Father is greater than the Son, pero bakit tinatanong mo pa rin kung may nakasulat ba na GOD IS GREATER THAN CHRIST? Don't tell me ikaw si Danny Navales (MIC sa Ang Dating Daan).
REPLY...
malaking dahilan kung bakit ko tinanong ang tanong na yan, kaya pakisagot lang kung talagang totoo kayo...
sagutin mo muna, with verses of the Bible of course, meron ba o wala, very simple lang naman eh...
GOD IS GREATER THAN CHRIST and/or GOD IS GREATER THAN JESUS...
Michael (former INC officer)
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(Login michael_a2007)
TIDUS...
No score for this post March 28 2008, 11:26 PM
2. Ang AMA ay mas DAKILA or GREATER THAN the SON (John 14:28)...or i may say the FATHER is GREATER than ALL...
Vs.
(Login michael_a2007)
i3answers...
No score for this post April 6 2008, 1:15 PM
sagutin mo muna, with verses of the Bible of course, meron ba o wala, very simple lang naman eh...
GOD IS GREATER THAN CHRIST and/or GOD IS GREATER THAN JESUS... Very simple ba? You're the only one who's making things complicacted for yourself. Eli Soriano:"Ang taong nagkakakontra-kontra ang sinasabi, 'yung medyo may sira ulo 'non."
Ka i3answer, bro, sakanya kasi kapag sinabing GOD o kaya naman ay DIOS eh definite na yun na ang Ama, Anak at espiritu santo. Tungkol sa kontradiksyon, marami akong hinayad sa debate namin, kumuha ka nalang dun, di lang yun, marami pang kontrahan yan, iwan ko nalang sayo pero pag wala kang time, hintayin mo nalang sa mga susunod na reply ko sakanya, ibubunyag ko doon yung mga kontrahan nya.
TIDUS
Psalm 6:1-4
1 O LORD , do not rebuke me in your anger
or discipline me in your wrath.
2 Be merciful to me, LORD , for I am faint;
O LORD , heal me, for my bones are in agony.
3 My soul is in anguish.
How long, O LORD , how long?
4 Turn, O LORD , and deliver me;
save me because of your unfailing love.
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
bakit di ba ninyo kayang sagutin ang tanong ko?, simple lang naman ang tanong ko eh ayaw nyo pang sumagot, hehe bakit ba puro nalang kayo comment ng comment at ayaw sumagot?...
i need a definite answer, saan nakasulat na sinasabing...
GOD IS GREATER THAN CHRIST and/or GOD IS GREATER THAN JESUS???...
alam kong may nakasulat na the FATHER is GRETER THAN CHRIST pero make it in the other term, baka naman nagkamali ako, may talata ba???...
Michael (former INC officer)
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"bakit di ba ninyo kayang sagutin ang tanong ko?, simple lang naman ang tanong ko eh ayaw nyo pang sumagot, hehe bakit ba puro nalang kayo comment ng comment at ayaw sumagot?...
i need a definite answer, saan nakasulat na sinasabing...
GOD IS GREATER THAN CHRIST and/or GOD IS GREATER THAN JESUS???...
alam kong may nakasulat na the FATHER is GRETER THAN CHRIST pero make it in the other term, baka naman nagkamali ako, may talata ba???...
Michael (former INC officer)"
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR BAKIT DI BA NAMIN SAGUTIN ANG TANONG MO? MICHELLE UMIIYAK KA NA BA NYAN? HAR HAR HAR
EH DI BA IKAW DIN AYW MO SUMAGOT SA MGA TANONG KO? EH SIMPLE LANG NAMAN DIN YUNG TANONG KO SAU. BAKIT BA PURO KA NALANG COMMENT SA IBANG TOPICS AT AYAW MONG SAGUTIN ANG MGA TANONG KO? HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR! SAU
I NEED A DEFINITE ANSWER..
"SA IYONG PAGSUSURI SA ANG DATING DAAN, MASASABI MO BANG SILA AY TAMA SA...
- KABAKLAAN?
- SA TUNGAYAW?
- DIOS NA DE PUWIT?
- ONE PLUS ONE?
- DIOS NA TAO?
- CRISTONG ESPIRITU?
- SINO SA KANILA YUNG MAY PUWIT?
- SI MAM ELI BA AY SUGO OR SUBO?(NAPASUBO SA KAYABANGAN AT KAMANG-MANGAN)
MANGAN TAU KENI...HAR HAR HAR HAR!
- ABULUYAN AT FINANCIAL STATEMENT?
- NEGOSYO SA LOOB NG TIANGGE MALL SA APALIT?
- ANO RELIHIYON MO?
SINURI MO ANG ROMAN CATHOLIC AT ANG DATING DAAN, ALIN SA DALAWA ANG MASASABI MONG TOTOONG RELIHIYON?
HINDI MO BA KAYANG SAGUTIN YAN EH DI BA ANG DAMI MONG REPERENSYANG IPINAKITA DITO SA FORUM?
O AYAN MICHELLE HA, TAHAN NA..WAG KA NG MAGMAKTOL..SAGUTIN MO MUNA YAN BAGO ANG KYAW KYAW KYAW.. WALANG MANINIWALA SAU HANGGAT HINDI MO NASASAGOT ANG MGA YAN!
"MAM ELI, TIGNAN MO YUNG MAGIGING SAGOT NI MICHELLE PATUNGKOL SA KULTONG ITINATAG MO HA...MAY POTENTIAL ITONG MAGMANA SAU..I- MONITOR MO MUNA...PLS EASE ME WID MY BURDEN!!
- "Aba eh normal yung ma-attract ka sa kapwa mo lalaki, it comes out naturally from a person." NYA HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HIKS HIKS HIKS HIKS HIKS HIKS..MAGLIGAWAN KAUNG MGA LALAKI SA KULTO NYO..NORMAL LANG YAN SBI NG DAKILANG SUGO NG KADILIMAN...NON OTHER THAN THE EVER FAMOUS "MAM ELI SORIANO"
- "BAWAL ANG MAG ASAWA SA KULTO NILA, EXCEPT OFCOURSE SA MGA OFFICERS NYA. PERO SYA AYAW DIN MAG ASAWA"
- Subukan mong magtanong na hindi nya alam ang sagot or alam nyang nabuking mo na mali sya.."Eh Gago ka pla eh, Tarantado kang matanda ka eh"
- Walang humpay na kotongan ng pera na itinago nya sa katagang ABULUYAN.
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bakit di ba ninyo kayang sagutin ang tanong ko?, simple lang naman ang tanong ko eh ayaw nyo pang sumagot, hehe bakit ba puro nalang kayo comment ng comment at ayaw sumagot?...
i need a definite answer, saan nakasulat na sinasabing...
GOD IS GREATER THAN CHRIST and/or GOD IS GREATER THAN JESUS???...
Vs.
alam kong may nakasulat na the FATHER is GRETER THAN CHRIST pero make it in the other term, baka naman nagkamali ako, may talata ba???...
Michael (former INC officer) Eli Soriano:"Ang taong nagkakakontra-kontra ang sinasabi, 'yung medyo may sira ulo 'non."
malaking dahilan kung bakit ko tinanong ang tanong na yan, kaya pakisagot lang kung talagang totoo kayo...
sagutin mo muna, with verses of the Bible of course, meron ba o wala, very simple lang naman eh...
GOD IS GREATER THAN CHRIST and/or GOD IS GREATER THAN JESUS...
Nasagot ko napo yan, at kung ano ang aking sagot ay ayun rin ang magiging sagot ng ka i3Answer dahil kami ay iisa ng pananampalataya. Dun narin sa talatang nagsasaad na ang Ama ay mas dakila kaysa Cristo, dapat dun palang eh nasapatan kana, kasi sa 1Cor15:24 sinasabi dyan eh yung Dios eh samakatwid baga'y ang Ama, dapat nasapatan kana dun, sa ibang talata nga nakalagay, Dios at Ama ni Cristo.
Eto panga ang isa pang talata maliban sa 1Cor 15:24-28...
1Cor11:3
Datapuwa't ibig ko na inyong maalaman, na ang pangulo ng bawa't lalake ay si Cristo, at ang pangulo ng babae ay ang lalake, at ang pangulo ni Cristo ay ang Dios.
Hindi po ba, na nagpapahiwatig dyan na ang DIOS ay mas dakila kaysa Cristo? Nahahawig ka dun sa mga huling araw na paakyat si Cristo sa langit...
Juan 21:22-23 Sinabi sa kaniya ni Jesus, Kung ibig kong siya'y manatili hanggang sa ako'y pumarito, ay ano nga sa iyo? sumunod ka sa akin. Kumalat nga ang sabing ito sa gitna ng mga kapatid, na ang alagad na yaon ay hindi mamamatay: gayon ma'y hindi sinabi ni Jesus, sa kaniya na hindi siya mamamatay; kundi, Kung ibig kong siya'y manatili hanggang sa ako'y pumarito, ay ano nga sa iyo?
Hindi kasi magkasya sa sinabi ng Panginoon kaya nagkanda mali mali yung paniniwala nila, gaya mo hehe.
Ngayun, bilang pagsagot ko, eh may katanungan naman ako dun sa sinabi mong kapag sinabing Dios o God eh ang Ama yun, ang Anak yun at ang Espiritu Santo yun...
"kaya pag sinabing GOD, TUNAY NA DIYOS NA MANLALANG ay kasama yung TATLO dyan si CRISTO, AMA, HOLY SPIRIT..." March 19 2008, 4:43 PM
"pag sinabi ko ngang GOD na yung lumalang sa atin, ay ang AMA yan, ang ANAK at ang HOLY SPIRIT..." March 17 2008, 7:54 PM
Ayan kasi ang maliwanag na sinabi mo, na kapag sinabing GOD o DIOS ay tumutukoy yun sa Ama,Anak at Espiritu Santo... Ngayun, kung ganyan ang paniniwala mo, dapat hindi ka naniniwala na si Cristo ay anak ng DIOS, dahil kapag naniwala ka dito, lalabas na si Cristo ay ang Ama nya maliban sa AMA, ay Ama nya rin ang Espiritu Santo at Ama nya rin ang Sarili nya, lalabas si Cristo ay may anak na nagngangalang Cristo(gulo diba?).
Ngayun katulad ng mga talatang ipinahayag ko sa itaas(1Cor15:24-28, 11:3), Lalabas dun ay isinuko ni Cristo sa Ama, Espiritu Santo at sakanyang sarili ang lahat ng mga bagay... At sa 1Cor11:3 eh lalabas pangulo ni Cristo ang Ama, Sarili nya at ang Espiritu Santo... tama po ba? pakipaliwanag naman ito gamit ang talata ng biblia.
TIDUS
Psalm 6:1-4
1 O LORD , do not rebuke me in your anger
or discipline me in your wrath.
2 Be merciful to me, LORD , for I am faint;
O LORD , heal me, for my bones are in agony.
3 My soul is in anguish.
How long, O LORD , how long?
4 Turn, O LORD , and deliver me;
save me because of your unfailing love.
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
In the the Revised Standard Version it say's:
"But of the Son he says, 'Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom.' "
By admitting that God is calling His Son as "O God" in Hebrews 1:8, it appears that God contradicts Himself! He said in Isaiah 46:9 that He does not know any other God. However There is another rendition that Christ is God advocates hide everytime they use this verse as their alleged proof.
But others are frank enough to indicate it in the footnote of the RSV we quoted above it writes "GOD IS YOUR THRONE" exactly how it was rendered in the Old Testament where it was quoted in Psalms 45:6 of the Jewish Publication Society version of 1917.
The truth is that the term O THEOS is not found in the Hebrew Bible also called the Masoretic Text. The O THEOS was taken from the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament Even there, according to B.F. wescott
"The LXX admits of two renderings: ho theos can be taken as a vocative in both cases (_Thy throne, O God,... therefore, O God, Thy God..._) or it can be taken as the subject (or the predicate) in the first case (_God is Thy throne,_ or _Thy throne is God..._), or in apposition to ho theos sou in the second case (_Therefore God, even Thy God..._)..."("The Epistle to the Hebrews," London, 1892, pp. 25)
In the Hebrew Bible, God is the throne of the Son which is a metaphor indicating that God is the source of the Son's throne or power. Jesus confirmed that in Matthew 28:18 when he proclaimed that "all power in heaven and on earth was given to me" and in Matthew 11:27, he said that "all things were given to him by the Father!" The source of his power and authority is God and on Judgment Day, the Son will be placed under God's rule (I Cor. 15:27-28 TEV).
Why will the Son be placed under God if he is of the same power with the Father? That is an intriguing question that Trinitarians could not explain but would only resort to hide behind the so-called mystery doctrine of the Divine Trinity.
MANY ATTEMPT TO prove that Christ is God by using verses in the Bible. One such verse they claim to be teaching about the deity of Christ is Hebews 1:8: "But to the Son He says: `Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom`."(NKJV) Proponent's of Christ alleged diety argue that in this verse, God the Father is calling His Son God. But if this were true, then there would be two Gods-a conclusion that contradicts biblical verses which teach that there is only one true God, the Father (Jn.17:1-3; ICor.8:6; Mal.2:10). Therefore, there is something wrong about their understanding of this verse.
The following are other translations of this same verse:
"But of the Son he says, `God is your throne forever and ever! And a righteous sceptre is the sceptre of his kingdom!`" (Goodspeed)
"He says of the Son, `God is thy throne for ever and ever, thy royal sceptre is the sceptre of equity`." (Moffat Translation)
In the Goodspeed and Moffat translations, God the Father is not calling the Son God. Rather, God is telling the Son (Christ) that He (Father) is His (Son's) throne. Thus, these two translations of Hebrews 1:8 do not contradict other passages of the Bible and hence, these translations of Hebrws 1:8 are correct. God does not recognize any other God
Why is it wrong to believe that the Father called Christ God in Hebrews 1:8? This is because God does not recognize any other God:
"Consult together, argue your case, and state your proofs that idol worship pays. Who made these things known long ago? What idol ever told you they would happen? Was it not I, the LORD? For there is no other God but me-a just God and Savior-no, not one!" (Is. 45:21, NLT, emphasis ours) God Himself teaches that there is no onther God besides Him. This one God who does not recignize any other God is the Father who created everything: "Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us?" (Mal. 2:10, NKJV) Not only does God not recognize any other God, but he declared His uniqueness, proclaiming there is none like Him:
"Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me." (Is. 46:9,ibid.)
In fact, the next verse, Hebrews 1:9, in reference to Christ, clearly shows that Christ the Son recognizes God:
"You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions." (Ibid., emphasis ours)
Take note of the phrase "Your God." If the Son or Christ were God, it would appear that God has a God, ang thus, there would be two Gods.
While the father recognizes no one else as God, Christ recognizes the father as His God:
"Jesus said to her, `Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My father; but go to My Brethren and say to them, "I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God"." (Jn.20:17, Ibid.)
`Thy throne, given of God`
Defenders of Christ's alleged deity further argue that the Almighty God cannot be merely a throne. So they ask, "How could the understanding that God is the throne of Christ be correct?" We should know that Hebrwes 1:8 is a prophecy about the coming Messiah in the form of a song quoted from psalms 45:7 which states:
"Thy throne, given of God, endureth for ever and ever; the sce
ptre of thy kingdom." (Jewish Publications Society of America Translation) Therefore, the equivalent of "God is your throne" is "Thy throne, given of God." The following verses clarify that the One to whom God will give His kingdom is the King:
"Beautiful words fill my mind, as I compose this song for the king. Like the pen of a good writer my tongue is ready with a poem. You are the most handsome of men; you are an eloquent speaker. God has always blessed you. Buckle on your sword, mighty king; you are glorious and majestic." (Ps. 45:1-3, TEV)
The fulfillment of this prophecy is Christ who was given the throne of David:
"You will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High God. The Lord God will make him a king, as his ancestor David was, and he will be the king of the descendants of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end!" (Lk. 1:31-33, Ibid)
In fact, Christ never taught that the authority or power He had was inherent in Him:
"Jesus drew near and said to them, "have been given all authority in heaven and on earth'."(Mt. 28:18, Ibid)
Instead , He acknowlegded the Father as the source os His authority:
"My Father has given to me authority over everything." (Mt. 11:27, NLT)
It is this God-given authority that Christ will hand over to God on the Day of Judgement:
"Then the end will come; Christ will overcome all spiritual rulers, authorities, and powers, and will hand over the Kingdom to God the Father. For christ must rule until God defeats all enemies and puts them under his feet. ...For the scriptures says, `God put all things under his feet'. It is clear, of course, that the words `all things` do not include God himself, who puts all things under Christ. But when all things have been placed under Christ's rule, then he himself, the Son, will place himself under God will rule completely over all." (I Cor. 15:24-25, 27_28, TEV)
Notice that Christ will place Himself under God so that God will rule completely over all. If Christ were God, it would appear that God is placing Himself under Himself-an absurdity.
Christ is man
While God's throne was given to Christ, this does not mean that God Himself is placed under Christ as the above verses attest. In fact, Christ sits at the right side of God's throne according to the same author of Hebrews 1:8:
"What I mean is that we have a high priest who sits at the right side of God's great throne in heaven." (Heb. 8:1, CEV)
The High Priest reffered to is Christ:
"That is why we have a great High Priest who has gone to heaven, Jesus the Son of God." (Heb. 4:14, NLT)
The High Priest who sits at the right side of God's throne is man in state of being:
"Here is the High Priest we need. A man who is holy, faultless, unstained, seperate from sinners and lifted above the very Heavens." (Heb. 7:26, Philips Translation)
"But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood." (Heb. 7:24, KJV)
Since Christ is man, then He is different from God because God is not man: "I will not execute the fierceness of My anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim. For I am God, and not man, The Holy One in your midst; And I will not come with terror." (Hos. 11:9, NKJV)
Hence, Christ, the High Priest sitting at the right of God's throne, is man and not God. Therefore, Hebrews 1:8 does not teach that Christ is God. Instead, it all the more proves the great difference between God and Christ
[REv 1:8 (Si Cristo ang nagsalita dito na Alpha and Omega, the Lord God almighty)...]
[natural si CRISTO, at dapat din kayong maniwala sa sinabi niya na "I am the Alpha and Omega" says the Lord God...Rev 1:8]
This is another verse that Trinitarians claim as proof of Christ being the Alighty God. They said that this verse speaks of Christ as the Alpha and the Omega. However, far from their claim, the alpha and the omega here is the Lord God, the Almighty.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, he who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty".(Rev. 1:8)
Could it be that this Almighty God is the same Jesus Christ? According to trinitarians yes based on on the previous verse, which reads as follows.
"Behold, he comes with the clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they which have pierced him, and all the tribes of the land shall wail because of him. Yea. Amen".
Since Jesus is the one who was pierced in verse 7, so verse 8 must also speak of Jesus. However, is it properto immediately concludethat that the subject in verse 7 is the same as that in verse 8? No, as we notice , verse seven already ended with an "Amen." According to Thayer, Amen is often used "at the end" of a statement,:
" It was a custom, which passed over from the synagogues to the Christian assemblies, that when he who had read or discoursed, had offered up solemn prayer to God, the others responded Amen, and thus made the substance of what was uttered their own."
So the context of verse 7 is concluded at the end of verse 7. Then who is the speaker of verse 8? The one spoken in verse 8 as "he who is, and who was, and who is to come." Now, Is this Jesus? According to verses 4 and 5 of this same chapter it's not.
"John to the seven assemblies which are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is, and who was, and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us, and has washed us from our sins in his blood".(Rev. 1:4-5)
Here we find "him who is, and who was, and who is to come" identified as a seperate entity from that of Christ, who is mentioned separately in verse 5. Hence, it is clear that Jesus is different from the almighty God and that Christ is not the Alpha and Omega in that particular verse.
[OO, pero ang GINAWA ay ang KATAWAN, LAMAN, yung TAO, hindi yung DIYOS ang GINAWA kasi ang DIYOS nga ay MANLALALANG...
at kung di pa existed si Cristo nuon bakit tumanggap pa siya ng Glory "WITH THE FATHER" even before the world was? (John 17:5)...]
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." [John 17:5]
This verse do not prove of Christ's pre-existence neither does Christ claim to be God.For Christ in that very instance never included himself in the one true God, he speak of no other God but the Father.
"When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son that the Son may glorify thee…...And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent."(John 17:1,3)
This is the verse that these people disregarded in undertanding john 17:5.
If having a glory means pre-existence, then ordinary people would have pre-existed as well.
"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto OUR glory:" [1 Cor 2:7]
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" [Eph 1:4]
God "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." [Eph 2:10]
"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began," [2 Tim 1:9]
"In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;" [Titus 1:2]
This proves that God can choose to bestow glory to anyone even before their existence, This is the same thing that happens to Christ.God has given Him glory before the world begun to be the saviour for man and not as God.
"But with the precious blood of Christ as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you," [1 Pet 1:19-20]
Jesus was given glory before the world was and it does not mean he pre-existed. Chosen people also had glory in the beginning, [1 Cor 2:7] and they did not exist yet when the glory was bestowed to them.
[at walang gumawang tagapagligtas ng DIyos dahil siya ay Diyos samantalang si Cristo (VERBO) ay NAGKATAWANG TAO kaya si Cristo ay "did not count equality with God" (phil 2:6 RSV) at he humbled himself and made himself nothing (Phil 2:7-8)...]
Ayon sa Filipios 2: 6-7
"Na siya, bagamat NASA ANYONG DIOS, ay hindi niya inaring isang bagay na nararapat panangnan ang PAGKAPANTAY NIYA SA DIOS,
Kundi bagkus hinubad niya ito, at NAG-ANYONG ALIPIN, na NAKITULAD SA MGA TAO."
1. NASA ANYONG DIOS
Ano ang kahulugan ng salitang “nasa anyong Dios” sa pahayag na ito ni apostol Pablo? Nangangahulugan ba itong si Cristo ay tunay na Dios ayon sa kaniya?
Ayon kay apostol din kay apostol Pablo, si Cristo ay tao sa likas na kalagayan.
"Sapagkat may isang Dios at may isang tagapamagitan sa Dios at sa mga tao, ang taong si Cristo Jesus." (I Timoteo 2: 5)
Ang tunay na likas na kalagayan ng Dios ay Espiritu at walang anyo. Ayon mismo kay Cristo:
"Ang Dios ay Espiritu..." (Juan 4: 24), "...ang Espiritu’y walang laman at buto." (Lukas 24: 36)
"Sapagkat wala kayong nakitang anomang anyo ng araw nang magsalita ang Panginoon sa inyo." (Deut. 4: 14-16)
Si Cristo ay nasa anyong Dios sapagkat ayon din kay apostol Pablo, si Cristo ay larawan ng Dios.
"Upang sa kanila’y huwag sumilang ang kaliwanagan ng evanghelio ng kaluwalhatian ni Cristo, na siyang larawan ng Dios." (II Corinto 4: 4)
Sa salitang Griego, ang salitang “larawan” at “anyo” ay magkasingkahulugan.
“Anyo” (Tagalog)- “Form” (English)- “Morphe” (Greek)
“Larawan” (Tagalog) - “Image” (English)- “Eikon” (Greek)
Kung ang ating Panginoong Jesucristo ay larawan ng Dios, ito’y nagpapatunay lamang sa siya nga ay tunay na tao sapagkat, ang mga unang tao din ay nilikha na kalarawan ng Dios.
"At nilalang ng Dios ang tao ayon sa kaniyang sariling larawan, ayon sa larawan ng Dios siya nilalang; nilalang niya sila na lalake at babae." (Genesis 1: 26-27)
Ang tao ay nilalang na kalarawan ng Dios hindi sa literal na kahulugan kundi sa larawan ng kaniyang "KABANALAN".
"At kayo’y mangagbago sa Espiritu ng inyong pagiisip,
At kayo’y mangagbihis ng bagong pagkatao, na ayon sa Dios ay nilalang sa katuwiran at sa kabanalan ng katotohanan." (Efeso 4: 23-24)
At sa larawan ng "PAG-IBIG".
"Ayon sa pagkapili niya sa atin sa kaniya bago pa itinatag ang sanglibutan, upang tayo’y maging mga banal at walang dungis sa harapan niya sa pagibig.
Na tayo’y itinalaga niya nang una pa sa pagkukupkop na tulad sa mga anak sa pamamagitan ni Jesucristo sa ganang kaniya." (Efeso 1: 4-5)
Sapagkat ang Dios ay banal kaya ang tao’y pinapaging banal din ng Dios.
"Ngunit yamang banal ang sa inyo’y tumawag, ay mangagpakabanal naman kayo sa lahat ng paraan ng pamumuhay;
Sapagkat nasusulat, kayo’y magpakabanal; sapagkat ako’y banal."
(I Pedro 1: 15-16)
Subalit ang tao ay hindi nakatugon sa pagiging kalarawan ng Dios sa kabanalan dahil sa pagkakasala.
"Sapagkat ang lahat ay nangagkasala nga, at hindi nangakaabot sa kaluwalhatian ng Dios." (Roma 3:23)
"at sa ganito’y ang kamatayan ay naranasan ng lahat ng mga tao, sapagkat ang lahat ay nangagkasala." (Roma 5:12)
Sa lahat ng mga tao, si cristo lamang ang tanging nakatugon sa pagiging larawan ng Dios sapagkat siya’y hindi nagkasala (I Pedro 2:22).
2. PAGKAPANTAY NIYA SA DIOS
Tanging si Cristo lamang ang nakapantay sa Dios sa larawan ng kabanalan.
"Sapagkat nararapat sa atin ang gayong dakilang saserdoteng banal, walang sala, walang dungis," (Hebreo 7: 26)
"Na siya’y hindi nagkasala, o kinasumpungan man ng daya ang kaniyang bibig." (I Pedro 2: 22)
Sapagkat Ang Dios ay banal:
"Sapagkat nasusulat, kayo’y mangagpakabanal; sapagkat ako’y banal."
(I Pedro 1: 16)
Ang pagkapantay ni Cristo sa Dios ay sa kabanalan at hindi sa pagiging kalagayang Dios sapagkat ang tunay na Dios ay walang kapantay at walang kagaya.
"Kanino ninyo ako itutulad, at ipaparis at iwawangis ako upang kami ay magkagaya?" (Isaias 40: 25)
"Kanino nga ninyo itututad ang Dios? O anong wangis ang iwawangis ninyo sa kaniya?" (Isaias 40: 18)
"…sapagkat ako’y Dios at walang gaya ko." (Isaias 46: 9)
Kaya ang mga taong lingkod ng Dios ay itinalaga din noong una pa upang maging kalarawan ni Cristo sa kabanalan.
"Sapagkat yaong mga una pa’y kaniyang nakilala, ay itinalaga naman niya na maging katulad ng larawan ng kaniyang Anak, upang siya’y maging panganay sa maraming magkakapatid." (Roma 8: 29)
"At dahil sa kanila’y pinabanal ko ang aking sarili, upang sila naman ay magpakabanal sa katotohanan." (Gawa 17: 19)
3. NAG-ANYONG ALIPIN NA NAKITULAD SA MGA TAO
Bakit sinabi ni apostol Pablo sa si Cristo ay nakitulad sa tao kung siya rin ay totoong tao na sa kalagayan? Ano ba ang tinularan ni Cristo sa tao?
Si Cristo ay ginawang Panginoon ng Dios upang sundin ng lahat ng mga tao.
"Pakatalastasin nga ng buong angkan ni Israel, na ginawa ng Dios na Panginoon at Cristo itong si Jesus na inyong ipinako sa krus."
(Gawa 2: 36)
Ang ibig sabihin ng Panginoon ay sinusunod:
"At bakit tinatawag ninyo ako, Panginoon, Panginoon, at di ninyo ginagawa ang mga bagay na aking sinasabi?" (Lukas 6: 46)
Subalit sa halip na Panginoon, si Cristo ay nagpakababa sa kaniyang sarili sa pagsunod sa Dios.
"At palibhasa’y nasumpungan sa anyong tao, siya’y nagpakababa sa kaniyang sarili, na nagmasunurin sa Dios hanggang sa kamatayan, oo, sa kamatayan sa krus." (Filipos 2: 8)
"Gayon din naman ang Anak ng tao ay hindi naparito upang paglingkuran, kundi upang maglingkod, at ibigay ang kaniyang buhay na pangtubos sa marami." (Mateo 20: 28)
Siya ay nakitulad sa tao sa pagsunod sa Dios at hindi sa kalagayan sapagkat ang pagsunod sa Dios ay katungkulan ng lahat ng tao.
"Ito ang wakas ng bagay; lahat ay narinig: ikaw ay matakot sa Dios, at sundin mo ang kaniyang mga utos; sapagkat ito ang buong katungkulan ng tao." (Eclesiastes 12: 13)
Sa kabila ng kaniyang pagiging banal, siya ay nakitulad sa tao sapagkat siya’y itinuring ng Dios na makasalanan upang tubusin ang kasalanan ng lahat ng mga tao.
"… sa pagsugo ng Dios sa kaniyang sariling Anak na nag-anyong lamang salarin at dahil sa kasalanan, ay hinatulan ng Dios sa laman ang kasalanan." (Roma 8: 3)
"Yaong hindi nakakilala ng kasalanan ay kaniyang inaring may sala dahil sa atin: upang tayo’y maging sa kaniya’y katuwiran ng Dios."
(II Corinto 5: 21)
Sapagkat ang lahat ng tao ay nagkasala:
"Sapagkat ang lahat ay nangagkasala nga, at hindi nakaabot sa kaluwalhatian ng Dios." (Roma 3: 23)
Katulad din ng unang lingkod ng Dios na si Job, siya ay nakitulad sa tao hindi sa kalagayan kundi sa kaniyang pagiging matatag sa pagsunod.
"Nang magkagayon, ang Panginoon ay nagsalita kay Job mula sa bagyo: Suhayan mo ang sarili mo na tulad ng isang tao, tatanungin kita at tugunin mo ako."(Job 40:6-7, NPV)
Ang katumbas lamang sa ibang pangungusap "magpakatatag ka at tatanungin kita…"
Konklusiyon:
1.Ang paksa ng pahayag ni apostol Pablo ay hindi ang tungkol sa pagiging Dios ni Cristo kundi ang tungkol sa kaniyang pagpakababa sa pagsunod sa Dios na dapat sundin ng lahat ng mga Cristiano, Filipos 2: 5-12.
2.Ang salitang “anyong Dios” ay hindi tumutukoy sa literal na kahulugan sapagkat ang tunay na Dios ay espiritu at walang pisikal na larawan (Juan 4:24).
3.Ang tinularan ni Cristo sa tao ay ang pagiging alipin sa pagsunod sa Dios, sa kabila ng kaniyang pagiging Panginoon at pagiging banal.
4.Ang pagkapantay ni Cristo sa Dios ay hindi sa kalagayan kundi ang kanyang pagiging kalarawan sa kabanalan sapagkat siya ay hindi nagkasala.
[...natural hindi dahil naniniwala siya na si Cristo nga ay DIyos (Titus 2:13)...]
One of the verses cited by those who believe that Christ is God is Titus 2:13, which says:
“Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.” (NKJV)
From this verse, it has been claimed by those who believe in Christ’s deity that the phrase “great God” refers to the “Savior Jesus Christ.” However, a closer examination of this verse will prove that it does not teach that Christ is God.
TWO, NOT ONE
The phrase “great God” in Titus 2:13 does not refer to Jesus Christ. This is more easily understood by comparing two other versions of the Bible:
“As we await the blessed hope, the appearance of the glory of the great God and of our savior Jesus Christ.” (Titus 2:13, New American Bible)
“Awaiting the blessed hope off the appearance of the Glory of the great God and of our Saviour Jesus Christ.” (Titus 2:13, Moffat Translation)
The proof that God the Father and Jesus Christ are two in number and not one was clearly expressed by Christ Himself:
“And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am no alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me. It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.”(Jn. 8:16-18, NKJV)
THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD
In his prayer to the Father, Jesus Christ further revealed the identity of the only true God:
“And eternal life means to know you, the only true God.” (Jn. 17:3, Today’s English Version)
The context reveals that the only true God referred to by the second personal pronoun “you” is the Father:
“After Jesus finished saying this, he looked up to heaven and said, ‘Father, the hour has come…’.” (Jn 17:1, Ibid)
The apostles also recognized the Father as the only true God: “Yet there is for us only one God, the Father, who is the creator of all things and for whom we live.” (I Cor. 8:6, Ibid)
This was also the teaching of the old Testament prophets such as Malachi:
“Don’t we all have the same father? Didn’t the same God create us a?” (Mal. 2:10, Ibid.)
In other words, the Bible teaches strict monotheism or the belief in only one God, who is the Father. If we were to accept that Jesus Christ is the One being referred to as the “great God,” then we would have to accept that there are two Gods, God the Father and God the Son—a direct violation of biblical teachings.
GREATER GOD, LESSER GOD?
Furthermore, if we were to accept that the Son is also God, then there would be a greater God and lesser God because Christ taught that He is not equal to the Father:
“You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you’. If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father’, for My Father s greater than I.” (Jn. 14:28, NKJV)
Please note that the Father and the Son are not coequal, but that the Father is greater than the Son. This supremacy of God over Christ was also taught by Apostle Paul:
“But I want you to understand that Christ is supreme over every man, the husband s supreme over his wife, and God is supreme over Christ.” (I Cor. 11:3, TEV)
Also on the day of Judgment, Christ, the son, will place Himself under God’s rule:
“For the scripture says, ‘God put all things under his feet’. It is clear, of course, that the words ‘al things’ do not include God himself, who puts all things under Christ. But when all things have been placed under Christ’s rule, then he himself, the Son, will place himself under God, who placed all things under him; and God will rue completely over all.” (I Cor. 15:27-28, Ibid.)
SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST
Titus 2:13 also mentions that Jesus Christ is the Savior. But, inasmuch as Isaiah 43:10-11 also states that besides God, there is no savior, some erroneously conclude that Christ is God. Isaiah says:
“’You are My witnesses’ says the Lord, ’And My servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no savior’.” (NKJV)
The argument goes this way: God is Savior and Christ is Savior; therefore, Christ is God. The error of such argument is revealed by further inquiry as how Christ became Savior. Is He inherently Savior? Apostle Peter said:
“The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.” (Acts 5:30-31, Ibid)
Jesus Christ became our Savior because He was exalted by God to be so. The Lord Jesus Christ who was exalted is different from God who exalted Him. If the one who exalts is God, and Jesus Christ was exalted is also God, then there would be two Gods. Furthermore, the Bible states that Christ, the Savior, also has a Savior:
“During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.” (Heb. 5:7, NIV)
Jesus Christ Himself also said:
“But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God.” (Jn. 8:40, NKJV)
The fact that He is a man also proves that He is not God, because “God is not a man” (Num. 23:19, Ibid,)
IN conclusion, Titus 2:13 does not teach that Christ is God. To believe so would result in many contradictions. The great God in this verse refers to the Father as had been made clear by Apostle Paul in the beginning of his letter to Titus:
“To Titus, a true son in our common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior.” (Titus 1:4, Ibid.)
Ref. God’s Message, Sept. 2002, pp. 8-9
[sa Isa 44:6 walang sinabi dyan na AMA, dahil ISA nga sila (John 10:30)]
In John 10:30, it states, ¡§I and my Father are one.¡¨ Doesn¡¦t this verse imply that Christ and the Father are one God?
Answer:
First, we should bear in mind that nowhere in the verse does it state that Christ and the Father are one God. If we examine the preceding verses of John 10:30, we can clearly see that the topic being discussed by Christ is the work of caring for His sheep. The issue is neither whether or not He is one of the so-called "persons" of God. Christ stated thus:
"I give them eternal life and they will never perish; no one will snatch them from my care. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of the Father¡¦s care. The Father and I are one." (Jn. 10:28-30, Revised English Bible).
(God's Message, Feb. 2004, p. 4)
A CAREFUL ANALYSIS of the preceding verses, however, shows that the abovementioned conclusion is wrong. When Christ said that He and the Father are alone, He was not saying that He is God. Rather, He was telling us how He and the Father are united in caring for His sheep:
"I give them eternal life and they will never perish; no one will snatch them from my care. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of the Father's care. The Father and I are one." (Jn. 10:28-30, REB)
In the Lamsa Translation, John 10:30 is rendered, thus:
"and my Father are of one accord."
Being "of one accord" means agreeing with each other. In this case, Christ and the Father agree and are united in caring for the sheep.
Moreover, Christ and the Father could not be one in nature because they are distinct from each other. God is Spirit, whereas Christ has flesh and bones (Jn. 4:24; Lk. 24:39). The Father is greater than all (Jn. 10:29), including Christ, as He testified in John 14:28:
"My Father is greater than I."(NKJV)
(Ref.: Leaflet published and distributed by INC entitled "Christ God?")
["Jhn 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."]
To fully understand why Thomas said, “My Lord and My God,” we must study the events leading to his statement. When Thomas heard that Christ appeared to the other disciples, he could not just simply accept their statements by faith. He wanted physical proof: “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hands into his side, I will not believe it.” (Jn. 20:25,NIV). In other words, Thomas doubted that Christ had really resurrected.
When the Lord Jesus Christ appeared again to His disciples after eight days, Thomas, being present, was challenged by Christ:
“Then He said to Thomas, ‘Put your finger here, and look at my hands; then reach out your hand and put it on my side. Stop your doubting, and believe!” (Jn. 20:27, TEV)
Therefore, in the instance whrein Apostle Thomas uttered the statement, “My Lord and my God,” the context was not concerning the nature of the risen Christ but the fact of His resurrection.
Obviously in this instance, Thomas was not preaching, but in a state of surprise and shock. This was also the state the other apostles were in when they supposed that they saw a spirit (Lk. 24:35-37). Christ also corrected them:
“Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, ‘Peace to you’. But they were terified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. And He said to them, ‘Why are you troubled? Behold My hands and my feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have’. When he said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.” (Lk. 24:36-40, NKJV)
That Christ is not a spirit is clear proof that He is not God, because God is spirit having no flesh and bones. Christ Himself taught that He is man:
“As it is you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.” (JN. 8:40, NIV)
God is not man (Hos. 11:9; Ezek. 28:2; Num. 23:19). Therefore, Christ is not God.
Then what about Christ’s statement afterwards?
“Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed’.” (Jn. 20:29, NIV)
Christ is not saying here that Thomas is blessed. True faith rest on the evidence or conviction of things not seen (Heb. 11:1). Those who are blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe that Christ was resurrected. They are those who do not need to touch the nail prints on Christ’s hand. Therefore, Christ is chiding Thomas in this verse.
To accept Thomas’ statement of surprise as doctrine would lead to the conclussion that there are two Gods – one who is spirit in nature and one who is man. The fact that Christ was resurrected means that he had died first, whereas the true God is immortal (I Tim. 1:17).
Christ in the same chapter taught who the true God is when he said, “…Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and you Father, to my God and your God” (Jn. 20:17, RSV). The true God, therefore, of Christ and of the true Christians is the Father. If Christ were God, then there would be one God who is ascending to another God. Does this not constitute a biblical contradiction?
[gen 1:26, yung US dyan maging ang "GOD" dyan ay PLURAL, in hebrew ang GOD dyan ay ELOHYM which means PLURAL WORD...]
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In the attempt to prove the doctrine of the Trinity, its proponents have resorted to grasping at verses that seem to support their claim. One of the favorite verses they use is Genesis 1:26:
"Then God said. 'Let us make man in our image. in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." (New International Version)
The Trinitarians argue that the use of plural pronouns us and our in this verse has been seen "to allude to the other persons of the Trinity" (New Bible Commentary, p. 61). But neither the context nor the language used supports their assumption that the pronouns 'us' and 'our' refer to the other two persons of the so-called Trinity - allegedly the Son and the Holy Spirit. These pronouns only indicate a number greater than one, but not limited to two or three. In fact, the singular pronoun in the next verse contradicts the concept of plurality in their argument:
"So God created human beings, making them to be like hjimself. He created them male and female." (Gen 1:27, Today's English Version, emphasis ours)
If there were plurality of persons in the true God, then why the seeming contradiction? In one instance, the plural pronouns 'us' and 'our' are used, while in the succeeding verse the singular pronoun 'he' is used. Since the bible is the inspired work of God and contains no contradictions whatsoever, the problem lies in their misinterpretation of the plural pronouns. Plural of majesty
Experts in Biblical Hebrew say the plural form can also be used to indicate majesty:
"1:26 Let us make man". Many interpret us to mean the Trinity (see note to Mt. 28:19), but probably early readers understood the word as the plural of majesty, just as the plural Elohim (Hebrew) is used for God to denote his majesty and attributes."(Harper Study Bible, p.5) Aside from the hebrew, many other languages such as Spanish and Filipino use the plural form for respect. While this explanation of biblical scholars has some merit in that it does not contradict the Scriptures, there is a way to resolve the plural pronoun issue without having to resort to ancient language grammar. The angelic court of God
In Isaiah 6:8, God asked
"Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"(NIV)
In the first question, God used the singular pronoun 'I', whereas in the second, the plural pronoun 'us.' Why the shift in number? God was acknowledging the presence of the angels and other beings that encircle His throne:
"Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders."(Rev. 5:11, Ibid.)
These angels include the seraphim:
"In the year King Uzziah died,I saw the Lord. He was sitting on a lofty throne, and the train of his robe filled the Temple. Hovering around him were mighty seraphim, each with six wings. With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with the remaining two the flew." (Is 6:1-2, New Living Transalation).
And also the cherubim:
"After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back ang forth to guard the way to the tree of life." (Gen.3:24, NIV)
The Father is the Creator
Those who belive in the so-called Trinity should understand that the One who made not only man, but also all creation is the Father.
"But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we exist for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life." (I Cor. 8:6, NLT)
Apostle Paul did not write that there is one God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In fact, when God the Father, created everything, no one else was there to help Him:
"The LORD, your Reddemer and Creator, says: 'I am the LORD, who made all things. I alone stretched out the heavens, By myself I made the earth and everything in it'." (Is. 44:24, Ibid.)
The Lord mentioned here is not Jesus Christ, who was made Lord (Acts 2:36), but the one Christ Himself acknowledged as the Lord of heaven and earth - the Father:
"At that time Jesus said, 'I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and the learned, and revealed them to little children'." (Mt. 11:25, NIV)
Christ's teaching that the Father is the Lord of heaven and earth, the Maker of all that exists, completely conforms with that of God's prophets:
"Have we not all one Father? Did not one God create us?" (Mal. 2:10, Ibid.)
Hence, God's prophets, Christ, and the apostles are united in teaching that it is God, the Father, and not the so-called Trinity, who created everything. God's statement, "Let us make man in our image," has been misunderstood by proponents of the Trinity doctrine. This heresy or false doctrine leads to damnation (Gal. 5:19-21), whereas, true knowledge of God leads to eternal life (Jn. 17:3,1).
1. NASA ANYONG DIOS
Ano ang kahulugan ng salitang “nasa anyong Dios” sa pahayag na ito ni apostol Pablo? Nangangahulugan ba itong si Cristo ay tunay na Dios ayon sa kaniya?
Ayon kay apostol din kay apostol Pablo, si Cristo ay tao sa likas na kalagayan.
"Sapagkat may isang Dios at may isang tagapamagitan sa Dios at sa mga tao, ang taong si Cristo Jesus." (I Timoteo 2: 5)
Ang tunay na likas na kalagayan ng Dios ay Espiritu at walang anyo. Ayon mismo kay Cristo:
"Ang Dios ay Espiritu..." (Juan 4: 24), "...ang Espiritu’y walang laman at buto." (Lukas 24: 36)
"Sapagkat wala kayong nakitang anomang anyo ng araw nang magsalita ang Panginoon sa inyo." (Deut. 4: 14-16)
Si Cristo ay nasa anyong Dios sapagkat ayon din kay apostol Pablo, si Cristo ay larawan ng Dios.
"Upang sa kanila’y huwag sumilang ang kaliwanagan ng evanghelio ng kaluwalhatian ni Cristo, na siyang larawan ng Dios." (II Corinto 4: 4)
HI GIRL!
NAPAKA LINAW DI BA? ANG TUNAY NA KALAGYAN NG TUNAY NA DIOS AY ESPIRITU, WALANG LAMAN AT BUTO! WALANG ANYO AYON MISMO KAY CRISTO NA TUNAY NA TAO. NASA ANYONG DIOS!
SAMPLE:
SI ELI SORIANO AY HINDI ACTUAL OR TUNAY NA DEMONYO...PERO ANG GAWAIN NYA AY SA DEMONYO..HINDI KA PA NAKAKITA NG ACTUAL NA DEMONYO PERO ALAM MONG SYA AY DEMONYO HINDI DAHIL SA ITSURA KUNG HINDI SA MGA MASASAMANG GAWAIN NYA NA KA-LEVEL NG ISANG TUNAY NA DEVIL!
MICHELLE: "PERO WALA KANG MABABASA SA BIBLYA NA HINDI SYA DIOS!
SELF-EXPLANATORY ANG WALA SA UTAK MO MICHELLE!
SI MAM ELI BA MAGSASABI SA MGA CULT MEMBERS NYA NA.."AKO AY HINDI DEMONYO!"??
AGAIN, SELF EXPLANATORY MICHELLE!
ANG KABAKLAAN, PAGTUTUNGAYAW, KASAKIMAN SA PANSARILING PAKINABANG, PANDARAYA, KASINUNGALINGAN, ETC AY LARAWAN NG DEVIL! HINDI NYA KAILANGANG SABIHING NA HINDI SYA DEMONYO DAHIL ITO AY MAKIKITA SA GAWA, AT SA KASO NYA SYA AY TUNAY NA DEMONYO SA GAWA..LARAWAN NG PAGIGING DEMONYO!
PAALALA LANG MICHELLE, NAWAY HWAG MONG MAKUHA NG TULUYAN ANG LARAWAN O ANYO NI MAM ELI SORIANO! "SI ELI SORIANO AY ISANG DEMONYO-LARAWAN NG PAGIGING DEVIL".
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR! MAGIGING MAG-KALARAWAN KAU NI MAM ELI?
EEEEOYYYOOWW!
PAHABOL FROM PREVIOUS POSTINGS ON THE SAME THREAD BY TIDUS:
1Cor11:3
Datapuwa't ibig ko na inyong maalaman, na ang pangulo ng bawa't lalake ay si Cristo, at ang pangulo ng babae ay ang lalake, at ang pangulo ni Cristo ay ang Dios.
SEE MICHELLE, ANG LINAW DI BA? ANG PANGULO NI CRISTO AY ANG DIOS. PAG DIOS DIN SI CRISTO, EH ONE PLUS ONE NA? HAR HAR HAR HAR! SINO SA KNAILA ANG MAY PUWIT? ANG DIOS NA DIOS OR ANG CRISTONG DIOS?
ETO PA MICHELLE: READ MO DALIII!!!
MAY BINANGGIT BANG ANG BAKLA (NA HINDI PUMAPATOL SA KAPWA LALAKE) ANG DAPAT MAGING PANGULO? WALA DI BA?
MICHELLE: "PERO WALA KANG MABABASA NA ACTUAL NA SINABING HINDI NGA KASAMA ANG MGA BAKLA, WALA DI BA?"
MY REPLY:
"GROW UP GIRL!" HAR HAR HAR HAR SELF-EXPLANATORY, NE!!
- "Aba eh normal yung ma-attract ka sa kapwa mo lalaki, it comes out naturally from a person." NYA HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HIKS HIKS HIKS HIKS HIKS HIKS..MAGLIGAWAN KAUNG MGA LALAKI SA KULTO NYO..NORMAL LANG YAN SBI NG DAKILANG SUGO NG KADILIMAN...NON OTHER THAN THE EVER FAMOUS "MAM ELI SORIANO"
- "BAWAL ANG MAG ASAWA SA KULTO NILA, EXCEPT OFCOURSE SA MGA OFFICERS NYA. PERO SYA AYAW DIN MAG ASAWA"
- Subukan mong magtanong na hindi nya alam ang sagot or alam nyang nabuking mo na mali sya.."Eh Gago ka pla eh, Tarantado kang matanda ka eh"
- Walang humpay na kotongan ng pera na itinago nya sa katagang ABULUYAN.
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Nasagot ko napo yan, at kung ano ang aking sagot ay ayun rin ang magiging sagot ng ka i3Answer dahil kami ay iisa ng pananampalataya. Dun narin sa talatang nagsasaad na ang Ama ay mas dakila kaysa Cristo, dapat dun palang eh nasapatan kana, kasi sa 1Cor15:24 sinasabi dyan eh yung Dios eh samakatwid baga'y ang Ama, dapat nasapatan kana dun, sa ibang talata nga nakalagay, Dios at Ama ni Cristo.
Eto panga ang isa pang talata maliban sa 1Cor 15:24-28...
1Cor11:3
Datapuwa't ibig ko na inyong maalaman, na ang pangulo ng bawa't lalake ay si Cristo, at ang pangulo ng babae ay ang lalake, at ang pangulo ni Cristo ay ang Dios.
Hindi po ba, na nagpapahiwatig dyan na ang DIOS ay mas dakila kaysa Cristo? Nahahawig ka dun sa mga huling araw na paakyat si Cristo sa langit...
Juan 21:22-23 Sinabi sa kaniya ni Jesus, Kung ibig kong siya'y manatili hanggang sa ako'y pumarito, ay ano nga sa iyo? sumunod ka sa akin.
Kumalat nga ang sabing ito sa gitna ng mga kapatid, na ang alagad na yaon ay hindi mamamatay: gayon ma'y hindi sinabi ni Jesus, sa kaniya na hindi siya mamamatay; kundi, Kung ibig kong siya'y manatili hanggang sa ako'y pumarito, ay ano nga sa iyo?
Hindi kasi magkasya sa sinabi ng Panginoon kaya nagkanda mali mali yung paniniwala nila, gaya mo hehe.
Ngayun, bilang pagsagot ko, eh may katanungan naman ako dun sa sinabi mong kapag sinabing Dios o God eh ang Ama yun, ang Anak yun at ang Espiritu Santo yun...
REPLY...
pero bakit nga ganyan?, dahil ba HINDI DIYOS SI CRISTO o dahil sa sinabi ni Cristo na Ang AMA ay lalong dakila kaysa kanya?...
very simple naman yan tsong, it's the relationship between the Father and the Son, katunayan ang sinabi dyan sa 1Cor11:3 ay tumutukoy din yan sa PAMILYA, agree ka o hindi?...
ang PAMILYA ay may mga mas dakila yan, natural mas DAKILA ang AMA kaysa kanyang ANAK, don't you getz it?, si Cristo "ANG ANAK", hindi siya "ANG AMA"...
pero may sinabi na ako kung bakit naging AMA si Cristo, nandun ang explanation sa diskusyun natin sa kabilang thread...
at yung sinample mong talata sa John 21:22-23, malinaw naman yan na may "IF"...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ayan kasi ang maliwanag na sinabi mo, na kapag sinabing GOD o DIOS ay tumutukoy yun sa Ama,Anak at Espiritu Santo... Ngayun, kung ganyan ang paniniwala mo, dapat hindi ka naniniwala na si Cristo ay anak ng DIOS, dahil kapag naniwala ka dito, lalabas na si Cristo ay ang Ama nya maliban sa AMA, ay Ama nya rin ang Espiritu Santo at Ama nya rin ang Sarili nya, lalabas si Cristo ay may anak na nagngangalang Cristo(gulo diba?).
Ngayun katulad ng mga talatang ipinahayag ko sa itaas(1Cor15:24-28, 11:3), Lalabas dun ay isinuko ni Cristo sa Ama, Espiritu Santo at sakanyang sarili ang lahat ng mga bagay... At sa 1Cor11:3 eh lalabas pangulo ni Cristo ang Ama, Sarili nya at ang Espiritu Santo... tama po ba? pakipaliwanag naman ito gamit ang talata ng biblia.
REPLY...
di kumpleto yang sinabi mo, DINUKTOR mo lang ang sinulat ko eh, sabi ko "pag sinabi ko ngang GOD na yung lumalang sa atin, ay ang AMA yan, ang ANAK at ang HOLY SPIRIT..."
pero sabi mo naman "Ayan kasi ang maliwanag na sinabi mo, na kapag sinabing GOD o DIOS ay tumutukoy yun sa Ama,Anak at Espiritu Santo..."...
INALIS mo naman ang sinabi kong "LUMALANG" o "MANLALALANG"...
pero sige sasakyan na rin kita sa argumento mo...
sabi mo "dapat hindi ka naniniwala na si Cristo ay anak ng DIOS", sagot ko naman, bakit di ako maniniwala eh NAKASULAT yan?...
at saka isa pa, diba si Cristo nung ipinagbubuntis siya ni Maria ay Ito ay mula sa Holy SPirit?...(Mat 1:18-20)...
which is tama naman din dahil ang espiritu santo ay manlalalang din...
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
walang MALI dyan kung susuko si Cristo sa DIYOS dahil di nga siya nakipantay sa DIyos at "...ginawa niyang walang kabuluhan ang kaniyang sarili..." (Phil 2:6-8)...
Michael (former INC officer)
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(Login michael_a2007)
TIDUS...
No score for this post April 20 2008, 11:00 PM
ang PAMILYA ay may mga mas dakila yan, natural mas DAKILA ang AMA kaysa kanyang ANAK, don't you getz it?, si Cristo "ANG ANAK", hindi siya "ANG AMA"...
(Login michael_a2007)
TIDUS...
No score for this post March 28 2008, 11:26 PM
4. may tanong ako, may nakasulat ba na GOD IS GREATER THAN CHRIST???...tanong lang po... Eli Soriano:"Ang taong nagkakakontra-kontra ang sinasabi, 'yung medyo may sira ulo 'non."
Hintay ka lang Michael, sasagutin ko rin yan, sana lang, sa mga pagsagot mo ay sumagot ka ng maayos, sabihin ko na sayo ngayun palang, marami kang sablay sa mga pagsagot mo sakin, dyan sa isinagot mo sakin ay marami naring sablay na sagot mo... hintay ka lang, pagtapos kong sagutin yung sa isang debate natin, yan naman ang isusunod ko. Be ready and salamat nga pala sa bati mo, at oo magkaibigan tayo, kaya ko nga ginagawa ito para kung sakali ay maibalik ang nawawalang tupa sa kinalalagyan.
TIDUS
Psalm 6:1-4
1 O LORD , do not rebuke me in your anger
or discipline me in your wrath.
2 Be merciful to me, LORD , for I am faint;
O LORD , heal me, for my bones are in agony.
3 My soul is in anguish.
How long, O LORD , how long?
4 Turn, O LORD , and deliver me;
save me because of your unfailing love.
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take your time, medyo mahigpit na rin naman ang schedule ng work ko coz nagbago ang place namin kaya kung mapapansin mo once a wek nalang ako kadalasan mag-log in...
at ipapaalala ko lang sa iyo din na kahit kailan di na me babalik sa church ninyo, i respect all people there, but not your doctrines...
Michael (former INC officer)
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take your time, medyo mahigpit na rin naman ang schedule ng work ko coz nagbago ang place namin kaya kung mapapansin mo once a wek nalang ako kadalasan mag-log in...
at ipapaalala ko lang sa iyo din na kahit kailan di na me babalik sa church ninyo, i respect all people there, but not your doctrines...
NO PROBLEM, HINDI KA TATANGGAPIN DUN KUNG GANYAN ANG KAALAMAN MO..BAKA IPAGAMOT PA KITA PARA HWAG MONG KONTRAHIN ANG SARILI MO HAR HAR HAR HAR..ALAM MO NAMAN NA KAHIT ANONG MANGYARI WLANG AKONG KARESPE-RESPETO SA ARAL NG ADD, LALO NA KAY MAM ELI NA IDOL MO..AT LALONG LALO NA DIN SAU NA NANINIWALA SA KABAKLAAN, AT SA MGA ARAL NA PINANINIWALAAN MO KAY MAM ELI NA HINDI KAYANG IPALIWANAG KUNG ALIN ANG TAMA SA ARAL NYA..HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR!
ONE PLUS ONE?
BAKLA TAMA O HINDI?
AMA AY DIOS, CRISTO AY DIOS..ILANG ANG DIOS?
AMA, ANAK AT ESPIRITU?
EBIDENSYANG NAKIKITA OR INVICIBLE?
DATING INC OFFICER OR NAGSUSURI..."IDOL KO SI MAM!"
"IDOL MO SI MAM...NASAN NA SI MAM..NAKA EVENING DRESS? KUMAKANTA NG BAWAL NA PAG-IBIG?"
KARESPERESTO BA MGA READERS ANG ARAL NG ADD NA LEGAL ANG KABAKLAAN AT PAGTUTUNGAYAW?
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HINDI KA TALAGA PWEDE SA LOOB NG INC! PWE, LAKAS MO NE! MAS BAGAY SAU SA TABI NI MAM ELI SA LUKLUKAN NYA SA BANDANG KANAN..KATABI NG MGA "HAPPY CHRIST-IENS!" OKAY?
HAR HAR HAR HAR!!!
- "Aba eh normal yung ma-attract ka sa kapwa mo lalaki, it comes out naturally from a person." NYA HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HIKS HIKS HIKS HIKS HIKS HIKS..MAGLIGAWAN KAUNG MGA LALAKI SA KULTO NYO..NORMAL LANG YAN SBI NG DAKILANG SUGO NG KADILIMAN...NON OTHER THAN THE EVER FAMOUS "MAM ELI SORIANO"
- "BAWAL ANG MAG ASAWA SA KULTO NILA, EXCEPT OFCOURSE SA MGA OFFICERS NYA. PERO SYA AYAW DIN MAG ASAWA"
- Subukan mong magtanong na hindi nya alam ang sagot or alam nyang nabuking mo na mali sya.."Eh Gago ka pla eh, Tarantado kang matanda ka eh"
- Walang humpay na kotongan ng pera na itinago nya sa katagang ABULUYAN.
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.
Talakayan ng mga duktrina at sinasabi ni Eli Soriano at ng kanyang Ang Dating Daan.
Ano mang mga isyu tungkol kay Eli Soriano ng Ang Dating Daan ay pwedeng pag-usapan dito. Lahat ng taga-pagtangol ng Ang Dating Daan ni Eli Soriano ay ina-anyayahan na ipagtangol ang anumang sa inaakala nyong di wasto ang mga sinasabi dito sa forum na ito at makaka-asa kayong di mawawala o di mabubura ang inyong mga kasagutan.
Ang maaari lang mabura o ma-delete ay ang mga sumusunod....
1.Malicious codes
2.Mga pics na hindi na katangap-tangap
3.Nang-gugulo lamang sa forum
Listahan ng IP Kaanib sa Ang Dating Daan ni Eli Soriano na nangugulo dito sa forum.....
